ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Didn't the Panthers' defense have a pretty major regression this year?
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
What's a red flag for me, is if he's been interviewing for HC positions for a few years now, why hasn't he landed one?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Not sure thats his fault....they started two rookie cbs from the start........
Mike mccoy as OC. Im hearing
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
So you'd rather he was already a Head Coach somewhere else and not be available?
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
No, I just wonder why he isn't. Usually it doesn't take several years to go from hot OC/DC to first time HC.
flysack
Footballguy
I thought this at first too, but consider that he's only 42 and been a coordinator for 6 years. So when he was interviewing he was 40/41 with only 4/5 years coordinating experience. It seems like he wasn't hired because teams thought he wasn't ready yet, despite how effective he's been.
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
Last year the Browns probably would've hired him if Carolina didn't go so far in the playoffs. He wasn't available until after the Super Bowl and they hired Hugh instead. I can't remember all the other places he's interviewed, but from what I do remember almost all of those teams hired guys who already had head coaching experience. I guess they valued that more. Either way, I like this hire a lot if it happens, especially if McCoy comes along and Houston's secondary coach as DC.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
That's a good point.BlueDredSo said:
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Looks like it's a done deal. I guess we get to see what he's all about...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I live in the Philly area and know that he was well liked and well thought of here. I have no idea what kind of HC he'll be, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It's always exciting when the Bills hire their next ex-coach.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
With all due respect to Todd Collins, Alex Van Pelt, Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson, *Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm, EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell and Tyrod Taylor,...(and I seem to have thought Shane Matthews was a starter in there someplace), Since JK retired, none of these guys are franchise QB's capable of being a consistent playoff caliber team.
You have to have a franchise QB - very few teams (Ravens, Bucs, Redskins) have ever made it to the Super Bowl without one. And none that I know have been perennial playoff teams without one.
*Bledsoe wasn't a franchise QB by the time he got here.
Sadly the two times they made trades giving up 1st round draft picks for lousy QB's (Bledsoe and Johnson) they didn't pan out. So, work on your scouting Dept and either get yourself a franchise QB or be willing to give up a couple of years of #1' picks for a first pick when that can't miss kid comes around again.
Oh...you don't want to give up a couple of 1st round picks? Why not? Look at the past #1 picks in the last two decades and tell me how many of them you think were worthy of 1st round selections.
Since 2000
Erik Flowers X
Nate Clements
MIke WIlliams X
Willis McGahee X missed entire first year.
Lee Evans
J.P. Losman X
Donte Whitner X (questionable)
John McCargo X
Marshawn Lynch
Leodis McKelvin
Aaron Maybin X
Eri Wood
C.J. Spiller
Marcell Dareus
Stephone Gilmore
EJ Manuel X
Sammy Watkins X (i'm saying a miss since they gave up too much for him).
That's 9 misses with 7 absolute disasters in 17 years. WTF
I'd be curious what a list like this looks like for teams like the Patriots, Steelers,Giants, Packers and other perennial playoff quality teams.
You have to have a franchise QB - very few teams (Ravens, Bucs, Redskins) have ever made it to the Super Bowl without one. And none that I know have been perennial playoff teams without one.
*Bledsoe wasn't a franchise QB by the time he got here.
Sadly the two times they made trades giving up 1st round draft picks for lousy QB's (Bledsoe and Johnson) they didn't pan out. So, work on your scouting Dept and either get yourself a franchise QB or be willing to give up a couple of years of #1' picks for a first pick when that can't miss kid comes around again.
Oh...you don't want to give up a couple of 1st round picks? Why not? Look at the past #1 picks in the last two decades and tell me how many of them you think were worthy of 1st round selections.
Since 2000
Erik Flowers X
Nate Clements
MIke WIlliams X
Willis McGahee X missed entire first year.
Lee Evans
J.P. Losman X
Donte Whitner X (questionable)
John McCargo X
Marshawn Lynch
Leodis McKelvin
Aaron Maybin X
Eri Wood
C.J. Spiller
Marcell Dareus
Stephone Gilmore
EJ Manuel X
Sammy Watkins X (i'm saying a miss since they gave up too much for him).
That's 9 misses with 7 absolute disasters in 17 years. WTF
I'd be curious what a list like this looks like for teams like the Patriots, Steelers,Giants, Packers and other perennial playoff quality teams.
flysack
Footballguy
I was reading about how the Giants were thinking of drafting Eli's successor soon and I recalled that QB class and everything they accomplished.
Big Ben, 3 SB trips, 2 wins
Eli, 2 SB wins against epic Pats teams
Rivers, made it to a conference champ game, but let's be fair here: he got stuck in San Diego. He's made the most of it. Every season their fans think they have a shot with him under center.
and then.....
J.P. Losman.
Big Ben, 3 SB trips, 2 wins
Eli, 2 SB wins against epic Pats teams
Rivers, made it to a conference champ game, but let's be fair here: he got stuck in San Diego. He's made the most of it. Every season their fans think they have a shot with him under center.
and then.....
J.P. Losman.
flysack
Footballguy
Why not put an X next to Spiller? He had one good 3/4ths of a season under Gaily and was the world's worst cocktease the rest of his career.
One day I hope people reveal what happened to him in New Orleans. They paid him crazy money to basically sit on the bench. What was it with that guy?
You can put an X next to McKelvin too. He was drafted to be a #1 CB and he was an average #2CB at his best who could return kicks.
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On The Rocks
Footballguy
I don't disagree with either of your points. The only guys I "X'd" had little to no impact.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
I decided to go cold turkey on NFL news since the season ended...no radio, no online, no talking about it with friends.
Planning on giving up my season tickets.
Now I log on and see this news and I already feel sucked back in.....DAMN YOU BILLS!!
Planning on giving up my season tickets.
Now I log on and see this news and I already feel sucked back in.....DAMN YOU BILLS!!
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, I'm sure that announcing the hire on Friday the 13th is a great omen. I mean, I'm not superstitious, but I'm not sure that spitting in the eye of Fate is a great idea either for a franchise this pathetic.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
The team hasn't even announced it yet? I was starting to wonder why I haven't seen him speak at a press conference yet.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Well, they announced it, but the introduction or whatever is for tomorrow.
And they just announced Leslie Frazier as the new DC. I'm good with that.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Going back to the Bills not playing Tyrod in the finale, I think the Economist of all places, does a pretty good job of saying what I have been thinking. I would quibble with some of what they say, but there points on game theory and appeal to future FAs is right on target I think. The odds of Taylor suffering a longterm injury in that game and the harm from that were much much less than the damage benching him did to the franchise.
And I still think that Taylor will likely be a much better QB than anyone else they have over the next 5-7 years.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2017/01/contracts-american-football?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/
And I still think that Taylor will likely be a much better QB than anyone else they have over the next 5-7 years.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2017/01/contracts-american-football?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/
Completely disagree. They're morons for giving that contract in the first place, but playing a guy who was already so injured that he required surgery, in a meaningless game where the only thing that could happen is they get a worse draft pick and/or they're on the hook for $30 mil for an injured player, would have been asinine. This wasn't a case where he got a bonus for hitting certain game/production milestones, that I would agree is bush league.
While the odds aren't great for an injury, they're higher than you're admitting- he is small, takes tons of hits both as a QB and a runner, and already needed surgery. In recent weeks Tannehill, Carr, and Mariota all suffered significant injuries, and none of them were already planning on having surgery. I see virtually zero upside in playing him and plenty of downside.
The franchise is already one of the biggest laughing stocks in the NFL- this "decision" doesn't even register on reasons why free agents aren't knocking down the door to come play in Buffalo.
On The Rocks
Footballguy
Damn you Mike McCoy! Damn you!
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Totally agree. Players around the league will take notice.
While it's certainly possible, I really hope this doesn't prove to be correct.
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
5-7 YEARS!?!? Well...this team is on a mission to finish at or around .500 every year, which is usually not a good formula for drafting a top QB. Ugghhhh...
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Geez, this interview with the Pegulas is a total trainwreck. Unbelievably bristly and so much bs about having to be secretive, etc. They really seem to have no clue why people think that the organization is a joke. Terry can be insulted all he wants, when you are clearly doing things in a way that other teams aren't and your results are awful, you can't pretend that everyone else is çrazy.
http://buffalonews.com/2017/01/12/terry-pegula-accusations-bills-dysfunctional-consider-insult/?utm_campaign=puma&utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1484308178
http://buffalonews.com/2017/01/12/terry-pegula-accusations-bills-dysfunctional-consider-insult/?utm_campaign=puma&utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1484308178
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On The Rocks
Footballguy
Watching this presser and a couple of things I came away with, I don't think Doug Whaley is the kind of guy I would hang out with an have beers with. There's something about him I don't like. It's not a smugness, or an arrogance. I can't put my finger on it. I got the impression that the new coach is already screwed with not having his first choice at Offensive Coordinator, and I sense he didn't have a plan B. I also think based on the evasive way some of the answers were given this team wants nothing to do with Tyrod Taylor. But they may have no choice but to get on their knees and beg him to rework that contract because as we already know......there isn't a whole lot out there at the QB position.
I'll be interested to see who they end up tagging to be the OC. Lots of Free Agents on their roster that won't be around next season. I wish the new coach all the good fortune possible, but he's looking at an up hill battle from the get go.
I'll be interested to see who they end up tagging to be the OC. Lots of Free Agents on their roster that won't be around next season. I wish the new coach all the good fortune possible, but he's looking at an up hill battle from the get go.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm not a particularly big fan of Donte Whitner, I think he was overrated in his prime, but I'm not sure how you can say he wasn't a viable first round pick. 3x Pro Bowler who has started 152 NFL games - almost 10 full seasons. You could make the argument that he was a reach at where they picked him - as was the talk from pundits at the time - but look at some of the players drafted around him and he looks pretty solid to me. Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Michael Huff, Matt Leinart, etc. I think with a top 10 pick you hope he's more of an "impact player" than Whitner has been throughout his career, but I don't really think it was a miss by the Bills, in retrospect. Maybin and Mike Williams deserve multiple XXXXXXXs.
flysack
Footballguy
Eric Flowers was their worst 1st round pick. That guy did nothing. Maybin is a close second, but at least he stuck around the league a few years and had a small resurgence as a pass rushing specialist with the Jets. Mike Williams hung around awhile too as a guard for a few teams.Steve Tasker said:
As a fairly objective observer-I'm not a Bills fan but I live right outside Buffalo and work in Buffalo-I kind of agree with this. I think the Bills would be ill advised to not try and retain Taylor if they can. I think he's a play-maker with identifiable limitations and he throws a nice deep ball. He's a QB who can be worked with and IMO is capable of being a playoff caliber QB.GroveDiesel said:
He had garbage at WR this year with Watkins being out, and Woods for several games. He has accuracy issues in the intermediate area of the field but he can be effective with a strong running game and strong defense. Buffalo seems to be a good spot for his game so you'd think something could be done to keep him without breaking the bank. I can't imagine anyone is going to throw a big sum of money at him.
Otherwise it's another start-over if they go the rookie QB route. I'm seeing Watson mocked to them in a few mocks. I doubt he'd fall to them but if he did I think he'd be a great fit based on what I've read (and the limited bit I've seen him).
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
One NFL writer/evaluator says that the Bills turning down Taylor's option would be "insane" and that it is easy to build and offense around Taylor.
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/01/buffalo_bills_not_picking_up_tyrod_taylors_option_seems_like_insanity.html
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/01/buffalo_bills_not_picking_up_tyrod_taylors_option_seems_like_insanity.html
He said you "can" build a good offense around him, not that it is "easy" to. I agree that it's possible, but because he's so limited in what he can do, I feel like defenses can adjust fairly easily as well- that might be one of the reasons why his numbers regressed this season.
It'd be a no-brainer without that dumb giant payday they'd have to give him (although they should still keep looking for a better QB even if they keep him). Going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
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flysack
Footballguy
I wonder if Rivers can be had on the cheap. Word is he has refused to play if the Chargers moved to LA. I could see that getting ugly and a trade being forced, or they outright cutting him.
ETA: I wouldn't be adverse to sending LA a 4th rounder for a 35 year old Rivers. If we get two solid years out of him while we groom a successor, it'd totally be worth it.
ETA: I wouldn't be adverse to sending LA a 4th rounder for a 35 year old Rivers. If we get two solid years out of him while we groom a successor, it'd totally be worth it.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The Bills should be running plays like Atlanta just scored on Seattle with with Watkins about 4-5 times a game. Totally mystifying why they never have.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Wow, bills being the bills.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Apparently Childress is not an option. Not sure if Andy Reid blocked the move but they're interviewing Olsen who was fired from Jax. There isn't a lot of options after DEN stole the TOP TWO guys in McCoy and Musgrave. Not sure how they managed to do that. But NYJ have been needing to hire an OC and didn't have to hire a HC first and they still haven't found anybody. It's really slim pickings going on. JAX needs one as well. SF obviously will when they hire Shanahan. I think some of the optimists are hoping that GB loses so the Bills can interview Alex Van Pelt. The disgruntled "fans" will blame Buffalo and make comments like "Bills being Bills" but it was known all along there wasn't much available after McCoy or Musgrave. If we end up with some turd like Olsen, have to hope it's only for 1 season until someone better is available next off-season.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Sounds like Van Pelt has a decent chance of being the guy. 4 days ago Thurman Thomas tweeted out "......Alex Van Pelt." Very possible there is already a handshake agreement in place. I'm happier with Van Pelt over Olsen.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
And man, the Bills have their troubles, but I feel awful for Jags fans having to deal with the Martine/Hackett combo again.
msommer
Footballguy
flysack
Footballguy
I totally forgot he was actually our OC for a year back in 2009.
Been working with Rodgers and his WRs for a few years now. I don't know if that's great or bad. GB runs a good offense, but how much of that performance is just Aaron Rodgers.
This is kind of the same question with Josh McDaniels, except everyone knows he sucks as an HC.
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Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Vic Carucci reporting that there isn't any substance to the Bills interest in AVP. La Canfora previously reported that the Bills "may be inclined" to pursue him. Basically in a nutshell he was guessing and had no sources on the matter. Not that La Canfora is ever accurate when it comes to Bills news anyways. It appears as though Ken Dorsey was interviewed yesterday by McDermott for the OC position and the only name being mentioned at this time.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I actually like Dorsey. Super smart guy that hung around the league as a backup QB almost solely based on his knowledge and understanding of the game.
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