CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
So will they or won't they still draft another QB, be it in the 2nd or 3rd round like a Webb or perhaps the 6th or 7th for a Chad Kelly?
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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
If they did they'd have to pull the plug on Jones, which seems very unlikely, or cut Yates, which would be odd, but maybe his contract wouldn't result in much of a cap hit. Right?
Borden
Footballguy
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Which 3 are the supposedly top 3? A lot of love going around for Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer and Webb all possibly going in the 1st. I wouldn't use a 1st round pick unless I traded back into the 1st, late in the round, but a lot of teams are desperate so.....
I see a lot of teams looking to move up to the top of round 2 to get a QB who wasn't picked yet but what's the cost?
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
I really, really don't want them drafting a QB in the 1st. Trade back into the 20's and get a good CB, LB or WR with an additional 3rd rd pick or something to that effect. Although I'd be pretty excited if they landed Adams, Hooker or Foster with that #10. Lattimore would be cool too but I've heard a lot about how he doesn't "fit" their zone defense.
If 1 of the 4 QB's falls to them in the 2nd, great. If not, no big deal.
If 1 of the 4 QB's falls to them in the 2nd, great. If not, no big deal.
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Waaaay too much love for this QB class. It's a very weak class of QB's yet 2 or 3 or maybe 4 will go in the first round! WHY?? They aren't ready yet. So why the heck would the Bills or any team want a QB in first round? I know this is the smoke screen season with agents and GM's BS'ing like crazy but I say any of these teams who need a QB now and draft one in the first round this year, will end up with a top 5 draft pick in 2018.
Cleveland would be better off taking Garrett first then going after someone like Howard or Peppers or Mike Williams with their 12th pick.
I guess we shall see who has more leverage with the Bills since it's been (smoke screen reported?) that Whaley loves Watson while McDermitt probably wants a Safety or a WR at 10, which to me makes a ton more sense for Buffalo.
At the Bills current 2nd round pick, which is pick #44, I would think a CB that fits McDermitt's system or a Safety or WR (assuming they picked 1 or the other in the first).
Cleveland would be better off taking Garrett first then going after someone like Howard or Peppers or Mike Williams with their 12th pick.
I guess we shall see who has more leverage with the Bills since it's been (smoke screen reported?) that Whaley loves Watson while McDermitt probably wants a Safety or a WR at 10, which to me makes a ton more sense for Buffalo.
At the Bills current 2nd round pick, which is pick #44, I would think a CB that fits McDermitt's system or a Safety or WR (assuming they picked 1 or the other in the first).
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Bills have worked out pretty much all of the top QBs at this point. Hopefully they've done that with the thought towards seeing if any of them would be worthwhile in the 2nd round.
I'm in agreement that they should not be drafting one in the 1st round.
And I would not like them to draft Chad Kelly at all. The kid is still a punk and obviously injury-prone. I seriously doubt Buffalo would draft him. McDermott said today that off the field character is one of the first things they are looking at for players.
I'm in agreement that they should not be drafting one in the 1st round.
And I would not like them to draft Chad Kelly at all. The kid is still a punk and obviously injury-prone. I seriously doubt Buffalo would draft him. McDermott said today that off the field character is one of the first things they are looking at for players.
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
I saw some mock draft yesterday from a guy whose allegedly more accurate than Kiper, and wanted to punch my phone. He had the Bills trading up to #5 to grab Watson. I will absolutely lose my #### if they do that along with any faith I have left in Whaley. I think McDermott is smart enough and has enough of an influence to not let them panic. I'd really like to see them go LB, CB or S with #10 or trade down and grab one later in the 1st. Then in Rd 2 grab a WR, TE or QB if 1 of the top 4 falls. Hell, I'd even be ok if they went defense again in Rd 2, which really wouldn't surprise me seeing how much they still need to convert to anything similar to Carolina's.
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
What you say Blue makes total sense. It's a crappy QB class and sure there are a lot of desperate teams out there for QBs but Bills have to pass on a QB at 10. Only option I see is moving down the first and getting a QB late 1st only because they have two 2nds to gain defensive help.
I would think, (but it makes toooo much sense), Bills coaching staff said that they will still be a run oriented team going forward, so if anything an offensive lineman and defensive help would be the priority but no O-lineman is worthy at 10. Lots of DB's this draft so maybe they go that way or if they trade down later in 1st, they go after a top O-lineman then? This would mean QB is NOT a priority
I would think, (but it makes toooo much sense), Bills coaching staff said that they will still be a run oriented team going forward, so if anything an offensive lineman and defensive help would be the priority but no O-lineman is worthy at 10. Lots of DB's this draft so maybe they go that way or if they trade down later in 1st, they go after a top O-lineman then? This would mean QB is NOT a priority
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
Yeah, I could definitely see them grabbing an O-lineman in the 2nd as well. That's fine too. They'd just better not trade up, for any reason. There are at least 10 elite prospects, wait your turn and see who's there or what others are willing to give up for it. I think there will definitely be teams calling if Watson or Trubisky are still available at 10.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
For those who, for some reason, were/are defending Whaley as a good GM...... an article ranking the NFL's top GM's..
29. Doug Whaley, Bills (3 new GM's not ranked soooo Whaley is considered the WORST returning GM) Last Year’s Ranking: 17 -- The Buffalo News believes it’s “only a matter of time” until Doug Whaley is fired. If true, Whaley won’t be able to claim he didn’t see it coming. Whaley tied one hand behind his back before he was even officially hired, orchestrating the Bills’ doomed selection of E.J. Manuel at No. 16 overall in 2013. Since, he’s trafficked in big names and bold moves, but not enough wins. Whaley has been a bad drafter whose best pick, Sammy Watkins, was made only after a questionable trade up in the deepest receiver class of all time. Even when Whaley makes good moves he has trouble reaping the benefits. Tyrod Taylor was an afterthought stroke of genius in Whaley’s typically expensive 2015 free agent class. Instead of trying to build around Taylor, he sabotaged him, benching him in Week 17 last season for Manuel(!). He lost the argument he never should have started when ownership sided with new coach Sean McDermott on Taylor, retaining him on a restructured contract. Whaley has never lacked for big ideas. It’s a brave way to attack roster building. What we forget about bravery is that it often ends in failure. It appears that’s what the Bills have deemed Whaley.
29. Doug Whaley, Bills (3 new GM's not ranked soooo Whaley is considered the WORST returning GM) Last Year’s Ranking: 17 -- The Buffalo News believes it’s “only a matter of time” until Doug Whaley is fired. If true, Whaley won’t be able to claim he didn’t see it coming. Whaley tied one hand behind his back before he was even officially hired, orchestrating the Bills’ doomed selection of E.J. Manuel at No. 16 overall in 2013. Since, he’s trafficked in big names and bold moves, but not enough wins. Whaley has been a bad drafter whose best pick, Sammy Watkins, was made only after a questionable trade up in the deepest receiver class of all time. Even when Whaley makes good moves he has trouble reaping the benefits. Tyrod Taylor was an afterthought stroke of genius in Whaley’s typically expensive 2015 free agent class. Instead of trying to build around Taylor, he sabotaged him, benching him in Week 17 last season for Manuel(!). He lost the argument he never should have started when ownership sided with new coach Sean McDermott on Taylor, retaining him on a restructured contract. Whaley has never lacked for big ideas. It’s a brave way to attack roster building. What we forget about bravery is that it often ends in failure. It appears that’s what the Bills have deemed Whaley.
Borden
Footballguy
The distaste for Whaley is justified but to say he's the worst GM in the league seems like a stretch. He'd built a top 5 defence before Rex messed that up. He pulled a startable QB out of almost thin air with Taylor. The Kiko for Shady deal seems to have worked out. And signing Incognito was another move than paid off.
He's had a high turnover in coaches during his time. And even an owner change. That's a lot to deal with and his worst season is 7-9(?).
He's had a high turnover in coaches during his time. And even an owner change. That's a lot to deal with and his worst season is 7-9(?).
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Well one of my famous lines is ... even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often. He's had too many bad moves and the team hasn't gotten better. He is a lame duck GM and most likely won't be there this time next year.
I'm not a big fan, but I've said it a bunch of times before- I don't know how you can properly judge the job Whaley has done without knowing which decisions he was responsible for.
Until/unless they actually start running things the way the better organizations do, with a clear role/power structure from the top down, it's going to continue to be a cluster#### at OBD.
Until/unless they actually start running things the way the better organizations do, with a clear role/power structure from the top down, it's going to continue to be a cluster#### at OBD.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Mike Gillislee - RB - Bills - Bills restricted free agent RB Mike Gillislee signed a two-year, $6.4 million offer sheet with the Patriots. Per NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, the deal includes $4 million in 2017. It's designed to be difficult to match, but it won't be impossible. The Bills have five days to make a decision. With Gillislee tendered at the original-round level, the Pats would owe the Bills a fifth-rounder if they let Gillislee walk. Gillislee has showed explosion and power as a change-of-pace back. He would be an intriguing addition in New England, and likely mean the end of LeGarrette Blount's time in Foxboro.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
If the GM isn't in charge then who is? Brandon? Brandon, to my knowledge doesn't deal with players.
That's the problem IMO, no one really knows. The Pegula's have certainly been involved- as far as I can tell they pretty much single handedly hired Rex and McDermott. Once hired, Rex had a pretty large say in who they brought in (Tyrod, for example), and it seems like McDermott will as well. I really don't know who will have the final say in the upcoming draft.
Another example is EJ Manuel- technically Buddy Nix was the GM of that draft and Whaley was the assistant, but who was ultimately responsible for that choice? Without knowing who made which decisions, it's hard to give a fair grade IMO.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't think Whaley has done a good job in the draft at all.
I do think he's done a fairly tremendous job bringing in bargain free agents that performed way above expectations. And his trades have weighed pretty heavily in their favor overall.
I do think he's done a fairly tremendous job bringing in bargain free agents that performed way above expectations. And his trades have weighed pretty heavily in their favor overall.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I was a big fan of Gillislee coming out of the draft, and obviously a bigger fan once he came to Buffalo and contributed in a large way. That said, they can't afford to give him $4 Mil this year, no? They're a bit strapped and he's a backup RB. I hate to see him go, though.
Another case of NE stealing our most valuable players. At least the Bills will get a pick for this one.
No, which is why NE structured it that way. Once again NE is playing chess while Buf is playing checkers.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
What a bad move move Buffalo. Cripes.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Gillislee is a solid RB but it's not like he's some tremendous difference maker or vital to the team. They'll get an extra 5th round pick now and can always draft another cheaper option. Jonathan Williams could step up as well. He was highly regarded by many,
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Gillislee had what two "minor" concussions last year so for me if I was a Bills fan, okay, sorry to see you go, next up. Let's see what Williams can do after a red-shirt year and if anything, let's see what we can get later on in the middle of the draft for more depth
Multiple sources rated him as the most efficient RB in the NFL last year. Obviously it was a smallish sample size and I'm not saying he's the best RB in the NFL by any means, but he isn't JAG either. Clearly NE prefers him to the draft pick and cap money, so while not catastrophic if they lose him, I certainly view it as a net loss.
It likely could have been avoided if they gave him a 2nd round tender, which would have paid him ~$1 mil more than the original rounder that they gave him. The gamble seems to have backfired.
Borden
Footballguy
If the Bills resigned Gillislee at the same number of Pats offer, people would say it was too much for a back up RB. If they let him walk completely, bad move. If the Browns would've done the same thing as the Pats I don't think anyone would be that upset.
He's a 26 year old (27 in November) RB with less than 1000 career rushing yards and clearly not the starter.
He's a 26 year old (27 in November) RB with less than 1000 career rushing yards and clearly not the starter.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Bills have something like $10.5 million in cap money left. I'll guess and say they have about $4 mill?? for rookie class leaving the rest for tendered deals and pocket change for free agents brought in and signed during the year, so in other words, not a lot of cap space available, while the Pats have money to spend. Was it a bit low? Perhaps but isn't the main reason the Bills drafted Williams last year was to be the eventual #2 RB??
Borden
Footballguy
Gillisless was listed at $1,797,000 per Over the Cap so I'm guessing this is what the Bills RFA offer was? His 2016 contract was $600,000 per Spotrac. So, to offer another million to Gillieslee would make him a top 20 paid RB, again per Over the Cap. Granted the rookies and a few FAs haven't been paid yet either.
It would also mean taking a significant chunk (about $3 million) out of their remain Cap space (about $10 million).
Seems like a lot just to keep their high end back up.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't love the Bills losing Gillislee, but I will say that they have been pretty darn good at scouting the RB position. A ton of people said that McCoy was toast and the Bills screwed up and he has been fantastic so far. Karlos Williams was great until he screwed up his career and people freaked out about the loss of him. Gillislee was really good since coming to Buffalo, but I'm actually going to trust the Bills on this one.
He isn't just a high end back up, he accounted for ~20% of their offensive TDs last year.
On a team that runs as much as the Bills do, with an aging/oft injured McCoy as their starter, he's worth that much IMO. If they had more cap space I think they would have easily matched already (they still could).
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-17/2017-buffalo-bills-football-schedule.php
Only shows so far first 4 games and season ends for New Year's at Miami
Only shows so far first 4 games and season ends for New Year's at Miami
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
So we play all four games against NE and MIA during the last five weeks of the season? WTH?
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Well is that supposed to be a bad thing? Chances are Bills will be battling Miami for 2nd so you might have a decent record going into Week 13
flysack
Footballguy
That is a brutal schedule though. We get a gift in the Jets week 1, then Carolina, Denver, Atlanta, a still-talented Bengals, BYE, an ascending Bucs team, and the Raiders.
They'll be lucky to come out of that stretch 4-4. Give them the Jets, one of Carolina or Bucs, and the Bengals. Denver, Atlanta and the Raiders are Ls. That's 3-4. It'll be 4-4 if they can steal one from those playoff teams.
They'll be lucky to come out of that stretch 4-4. Give them the Jets, one of Carolina or Bucs, and the Bengals. Denver, Atlanta and the Raiders are Ls. That's 3-4. It'll be 4-4 if they can steal one from those playoff teams.
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Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Looks like 6-10 to me. I'll give them Jets, Buccs, @Jets, Saints, Colts, and one of the Miami games. They could of course blow it in a couple of those games, especially if Tyrod/McCoy/Watkins get banged up.
Main additions- Micah Hyde and a couple of full backs
Main subtractions- Stephon Gilmore, Zach Brown, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Nickell Roby-Coleman and Mike Gillislee
They also have a very difficult schedule (on paper). Unless this new coaching staff are miracle workers, the over/under has to be around 6 wins, no?
Main subtractions- Stephon Gilmore, Zach Brown, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Nickell Roby-Coleman and Mike Gillislee
They also have a very difficult schedule (on paper). Unless this new coaching staff are miracle workers, the over/under has to be around 6 wins, no?
flysack
Footballguy
They could also have a hell of a draft, I suppose.
Replace Gilmore with the #10 pick.
Replace Zach Brown with Reggie Ragland.
Replace Woods/Goodwin with a 2nd/3rd round pick.
Roby-Coleman is no major loss.
Gillislee is replaced by Jon Williams and a middle round RB pick.
It's not that dire. I mean, I doubt a winning record is in the cards, but you never know.
Sure, I'm just comparing it to the team they had on the field last year. They could have a great draft, or they could have an awful one, lol.
Not saying it's that dire, just trying to come up with a realistic expectation. They won 7 games last year, have lost more talent than they've gained (even after the draft I think they'll still have less talent), and have a tougher schedule. The real unknown is the coaching staff, but it's hard to expect them to be great in their 1st year.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
I like Conley a lot more than Lattimore but he might be gone before Bills are on the clock.
Borden
Footballguy
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
More consistent.... not injury prone
flysack
Footballguy
I don't know the college CBs well enough, though many are saying Lattimore is the real deal.
And let's not overvalue Gilmore here. Yes, he'll be a shut down CB for NE, but he was hardly that in Buffalo. Don't you remember screaming at the TV as he let up yet another long TD over his head? I do.
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