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2021 Houston Texans - (2 Viewers)

Buckna said:
No, he meant Jackson, said the same thing in the Romo thread. I thought Jackson had been pretty good and a big part of a stellar secondary but I could be mistaken. Joseph is getting up there in age, was injured part of the season and played pretty poorly the rest, he seems a much more obvious cut. And I think you have to keep someone considering Johnson's injury and some team may throw a ton of money at Bouye we can't afford to match.

Cushing is interesting as a possible cut, he has obviously played well below his salary due to all those injuries (honestly can't find any metrics on the internet on how well he did this year, but I know 2015 was particularily bad) but you get the feeling the Texans brass love him and wouldn't even think of cutting him. Maybe with McKinney blossoming and taking over a lot of the defensive captain on the field duties they would actually consider moving on from Cushing but that would create a big hole that we would need to draft a LB'er to replace him.

Wilfork likely retires, but Reader filled in pretty well for him and his playing time grew over the season.

Romo is too expensive, old and injury prone IMO. If he can't stay healthy behind Dallas' line, how the hell will he stay healthy behind ours? I think we're basically ####ed as far as QB goes unless one of the top 3 rookies slips like Lynch did and we can get him. Although I don't think we would be interested in Watson who seems the most likely QB to be available later due to his inaccuracy issues. I don't like any of the FA QB options (Cutler, Kaep, etc.)

Knowing Rick Smith, we keep Cushing, Newton (who should be another cut after that bad injury), and Osweiler and they bring in another journeyman with a "competition" between Savage, the Journeyman and Os. Probably draft a Tackle with one of our first 3 picks but spend the first on something like a safety or a TE.
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I did mean Jackson, because he has trouble covering slot receivers. His cap savings is actually $4.5 million if cut. I have heard that they may consider moving him to safety, which I am fine with, and then cut Joseph instead.

As for Romo, $14 million next year with no deferred money is not expensive. Yes, with Osweiller's $19 million, it means $33 million against the cap at QB, but if you can make it work against the cap this year why not? You are pretty much saying they are going to stay status quo at QB without Romo, which means they still suck at QB. I would rather they have the chance to have a real QB, if, by against all odds, he stays healthy. The nice part of his contract is if he does get hurt and is forced to retire, the Texans are not on the hook for any dead money. By 2018, they could cut Romo and Osweiller with only a $6 million cap hit and be ready to start over at QB.

 
Kickers re-signed.

Lechler received a $2 million contract that includes a $500,000 signing bonus.

Novak got a one-year, $1.115 million contract that includes a $250,000 bonus.

 
The cap is not going to be friendly to the Texans this year with Brock's anchor around the team's neck. I think with that anchor this is the year to rid themselves of it overall. Cutting him now costs an additional $6M, but I don't see any reason why the team needs to keep him on the books unless that $6M this year is what would really save someone like Bouye from leaving.

If AJ leaves, cut Brock and go after Cutler or Romo to pair with Savage and draft a QB high and then go OL/CB in the draft. I'm in no way thrilled with Romo or Cutler, but this team cannot afford to keep having to wait on finding a servicable QB while the defense ages. At least the Brock contract was them taking a shot but they whiffed badly and they need to take shots again this offseason or the team will never progress past the first round in the playoffs.

 
Jayded said:
The cap is not going to be friendly to the Texans this year with Brock's anchor around the team's neck. I think with that anchor this is the year to rid themselves of it overall. Cutting him now costs an additional $6M, but I don't see any reason why the team needs to keep him on the books unless that $6M this year is what would really save someone like Bouye from leaving.

If AJ leaves, cut Brock and go after Cutler or Romo to pair with Savage and draft a QB high and then go OL/CB in the draft. I'm in no way thrilled with Romo or Cutler, but this team cannot afford to keep having to wait on finding a servicable QB while the defense ages. At least the Brock contract was them taking a shot but they whiffed badly and they need to take shots again this offseason or the team will never progress past the first round in the playoffs.
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They could also designate Osweiller as a June 1st cut and incur the additional $6 million cap hit in 2018 rather than in the current cap year.

 
Seen Bouye linked to the Eagles, Jags and Titans. With no extension already, not surprising if he is gone, UDFA originally, has made bare minimum so can't fault him for cashing in. Tons of teams out there that can throw stupid money at him.

Demps is rumored to be signing with the Bears as well.

 
It's officially being announced, Bouye signed with the Jags.

Glad to be rid of Brock, but if this was all to clear a bunch of cap space for Romo and not resign Bouye too, I'm not sure I'm going to be all that excited to be honest.

 
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Be nice to use some of that cap room to get a new right side of the offensive line. Jeff Allen and Chris Clark are atrocious. You can't expect someone as brittle as Romo to survive with crap like that, if he is indeed who comes here

 
Houston turmOiler said:
Be nice to use some of that cap room to get a new right side of the offensive line. Jeff Allen and Chris Clark are atrocious. You can't expect someone as brittle as Romo to survive with crap like that, if he is indeed who comes here
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Agreed, Romo couldn't stay healthy behind the best line in football, he would be destroyed with us currently as our line stands.

Wondering why we haven't cut Newton yet. Is it an injury settlement type thing? No way they can be counting on him coming back in any way after that injury.

Pencil us in for every mock draft with at least one DB in the first 3 rounds.

 
Buckna said:
It's officially being announced, Bouye signed with the Jags.

Glad to be rid of Brock, but if this was all to clear a bunch of cap space for Romo and not resign Bouye too, I'm not sure I'm going to be all that excited to be honest.
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They've also got room to talk extensions now instead of putting themselves in the Bouye position again (i.e. Hopkins) if they don't use it outright on free agents.

 
Jayded said:
They've also got room to talk extensions now instead of putting themselves in the Bouye position again (i.e. Hopkins) if they don't use it outright on free agents.
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Good point about Hopkins extension, it's going to be expensive.

 
Buckna said:
Agreed, Romo couldn't stay healthy behind the best line in football, he would be destroyed with us currently as our line stands.

Wondering why we haven't cut Newton yet. Is it an injury settlement type thing? No way they can be counting on him coming back in any way after that injury.

Pencil us in for every mock draft with at least one DB in the first 3 rounds.
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For what it's worth, the Cowboys line allowed 29 sacks last year, the Texans 32. From a pass protection standpoint, not as big a difference as most people think. Prescott and Osweiller are comparable in scrambling abilities.

 
dhockster said:
For what it's worth, the Cowboys line allowed 29 sacks last year, the Texans 32. From a pass protection standpoint, not as big a difference as most people think. Prescott and Osweiller are comparable in scrambling abilities.
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And a ton of those were on Osweilier not feeling the pressure nor moving around the pocket to buy time.  Romo will protect himself much better than that.

 
There's a lot more to O'lines than just sacks. PFF graded Dallas line 2nd overall, Houston 19th at the end of the year.

Chris Clark, however,

was the league’s worst pass-protecting right tackle, surrendering a ridiculous 67 total QB pressures on the season; he was also flagged 13 times.
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Granted that Clark was forced into action unexpectedly when Newton went down but there is currently no replacement on the roster. Basically PFF said our two Guards and our RT sucked and were bailed out by Duane Brown and backup Center Greg Mancz. Mancz might get moved to guard when Martin comes back which would help, but they have to find a RT or Romo would be in a hospital wing by October.

 
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Texans fans, please, please, don't start asking for Romo. I love the Texans fans with all my heart and these QBs from the FA market always let you down. Savage, Hoyer, Os. I hear about trades for Garrappalo or Romo. They're going to end bad. Please end this cycle. 

 
Jayded said:
The cap is not going to be friendly to the Texans this year with Brock's anchor around the team's neck. I think with that anchor this is the year to rid themselves of it overall. Cutting him now costs an additional $6M, but I don't see any reason why the team needs to keep him on the books unless that $6M this year is what would really save someone like Bouye from leaving.

If AJ leaves, cut Brock and go after Cutler or Romo to pair with Savage and draft a QB high and then go OL/CB in the draft. I'm in no way thrilled with Romo or Cutler, but this team cannot afford to keep having to wait on finding a servicable QB while the defense ages. At least the Brock contract was them taking a shot but they whiffed badly and they need to take shots again this offseason or the team will never progress past the first round in the playoffs.
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I know it's moot now, but I don't think your numbers were right.

If they had cut Brock this year they would owe him $16m in guaranteed salary and there would be a cap hit for that $16m plus $9m of his signing bonus that hadn't hit the cap yet = $25m.

If he played this year and they cut him next year, that $16m and $3m of the signing bonus hit would have been on this year's cap and taken care of, leaving $6m in cap hit from his bonus after he's cut next year.

So cutting him this year would have been $19m worse than cutting him next year would have.

 
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Borden said:
Texans fans, please, please, don't start asking for Romo. I love the Texans fans with all my heart and these QBs from the FA market always let you down. Savage, Hoyer, Os. I hear about trades for Garrappalo or Romo. They're going to end bad. Please end this cycle. 
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I would want to sign Romo to a contract that after 2 years you can get out of easily.  Maybe 3 if the third year is cheaper.

And in the meantime you're still drafting a QB and hoping he'll be starter worthy in a year or two.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
:mellow:  
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No intent to disparage Prescott. Osweiller actually is more mobile than a lot of people think which is why I said scrambling abilities,  but I would ultimately rather have Prescott than Osweiller when it comes to pocket awareness. I think part of the reason the QB hits noted above (100 for Houston last year, 69 for Dallas) was Prescott has better pocket awareness and avoided some hits that Osweiller didn't. QB hits and sacks are not all on the offensive line, the QB's speed of decision making, the speed of his release, and his overall pocket awareness contribute to the number of hits he takes. Romo should be better at this then Osweiller was. He has to be or may not make it out of training camp again.

 
I just mentioned this in a poll I have about equivalence of cap dollars and picks.

Using Chase's draft value chart, the value of picks exchanged in the Osweiler trade amount to Houston giving up the 3.3 in the trade.

ETA:  That is assuming the 2018 2nd is halfway between their current slot (25th) and an average pick (17th). Also did not discount for "future picks are worth less than current" as I don't believe in that from a team outlook. (Though do believe in it from a coach/GM job security outlook.)

If you go with it being the 2.17 then it would be like giving up the 2.30 (62).

If you go with it being this year's slot, the 2.25 then it would be like giving up the 3.8 (72).

 
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I had thought for awhile that signing Romo, should he be released by Dallas, would count against Houston in the compensatory pick equation, probably canceling the 3rd rounder they stand to gain in 2018 for AJ Bouye leaving. However I was looking at what people believe the formula is, and apparently it only applies to players who had the power to leave the previous team of their own decision. A player who was released by their previous team wouldn't apply. 

So, yay us.

 
I think that is correct that comp picks only take into account FA's who's contract's with their former team expired, not guys who are cut by their former team. Also the FA's you sign only count if signed before a certain date in the offseason, the 2nd Tuesday after the NFL draft according to an article I read. Which is one reason why you see some veteran's sitting out there for a while before being signed in May or June.

 
I have been thinking about the Texans and Bill O'Brien. Here are some of the facts relating to his 3 year tenure:

Team Record: 

Pros: 3 straight winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances

Cons: All of the winning seasons were 9-7 and if you take away the divisional games the Texans have gone 5-5, 4-6, and 4-6 in nondivisional games

Team offensive rankings:           Points            Yards            Offensive Turnovers

2014                                                14                  17                                       12

2015                                                21                  19                                       11

2016                                                28                  29                                       19

Main QB starters:

Ryan Fitzpatrick: Pros: Had his best Completion percentage and Quarterback Rating in his 12 starts for the Texans. Had a good TD/int ratio of 17/8. Cons: 6 of his TD's came in one game against the Titans, so in his other 11 games, he threw 11 TD's and 8 interceptions. Pretty average. He was benched for Ryan Mallett.

Brian Hoyer: Pros: His numbers as a starter in Houston were better than his numbers as a starter in Cleveland. Good TD/int ratio of 19/7. Cons: Played his worst against good competition. Played bad early in the opener against KC which put the Texans in a hole they couldn't recover from. Played worse in the Playoff loss at home to KC. Had some inflated 2nd half stats in two games that the Texans trailed 42-0 after 3 quarters against Atlanta and 41-0 at half against Miami. Benched for Ryan Mallett.

Brock Osweiller: Pros: None. Really. Cons: All of his stats were better in his one season as a starter with Denver than with the Texans. Bad TD/int ratio of 15/16. Benched for Tom Savage.

Obviously the Texans have had bad starting QB's in the 3 years that O'Brien has been head coach. While that obviously has been a drag on the team, I think O'Brien may be equally responsible for the Texans offensive woes. Everything I hear on talk radio is about how complicated O'Brien's offense is. He requires the WR's and the QB to make independent reads of the defense and hopefully they both read the same thing and the play has a chance to work. Obviously the Texans offense was too difficult for Osweiller to get a handle on.

I think even if the Texans obtain Tony Romo and he manages to stay healthy, they still may struggle because of the complicated nature of the offense. I think Bill O'Brien is likely to be fired after the season. The AFC south should continue to get better, and the Texans have a 1st place schedule.

 
I think overall he isn't a bad coach.  Probably average to above average. Though like Kubiak he has some shortcomings.

So anyone in particular that people are wanting from the draft?  I really don't even know what to think at this point. I'd prefer Mitch but don't expect him to last anywhere near the Texans pick.  Would probably be ok with whatever QB or tackle they like best.  Though some of the QBs I'd feel a lot better with a trade back and still get one.

 
Feel like the tackle will come in the 3rd, really looking for a RT, it's a weak class for that position, and Smith's often focused on developmental tackles later.  Wouldn't be surprised for us to take multiple linemen.

Likely at least 1 DB in the 1st or more likely 2nd with Bouye leaving and JJo in his last year. I honestly don't know what they are doing, my guess is it will be a QB in the first but who knows, very quiet this off-season other than the Oswieler trade.

 
Maybe it's time for Houston to join the "Fold for Darnold" group, although that bandwagon is getting awfully crowded...

 
Gotta think they will bring in Kap and at least discuss Cutler.  As a Miller and Hopkins owner, I'd rather see Cutler come in.  Cutler isnt a great NFL QB, but he's been pretty good for the values of his top offensive teammates.  This was a dagger for owners of any offensive player on the Texans. Just assumed Romo was gonna be there next season.

 
Or maybe trade for Jimmy G.  They are a decent QB away from being a serious contender.  May go all-in if they think he is the answer.  I could see New England coming out of this a huge winner.

 
Kaep doesn't fit O'Brien's offense in the slightest, and they haven't shown any interest in Cutler prior at this point. They aren't going to pay a trade ransom for JG either when they are already down picks next year and he's due a big contract. They will draft a QB with their 1st or trade up from their second as has been said even before the Romo news.

Savage doesn't make them a superbowl favorite but he would be immensely better than Osweiler was last year (almost anyone would be.)

 
I think the Texans need to go back to the draft to find their future. Trading or overpaying for big name free agents is clearly not Smith's forte.

Of Cutler or Kaep, I think I'd have to choose Kaep for this team for where it is. The team doesn't need a QB that is the interception machine that Cutler is. At least Kaep doesn't turn it over near as much and his threat to run likely would help the running game open up some as well.

 
I understand these points of view, although when you are as good on D as they are, and have a stud WR, decent line, and a good RB...I could see the team feeling differently, and going for it now.  Like Denver did with Manning to an extent.  Like they tried to do with Osweiler.  Drafting a QB from this class and starting Tom Savage is essentially throwing in the towel on 2017, and they have a great team aside from their QB.  If they can get Cutler cheap on a 1-2 year deal, he at least gives them a chance.  I know he has his warts, but I think he has the least amount of warts of any option they have, outside of trading away a 1st to NE to get JG.  

It seems a shame to throw away 2017 when the rest of the team is as good as it is.  I saw enough of Savage last year to feel pretty confident that he isnt going to give them a legit chance to win a championship.  Cutler is a huge step up from Savage IMO, and I know exactly what Cutler is.  If nothing else, a solid placeholder for whoever they draft this year who at least gives them a chance to score some points.

 
Buckna said:
Kaep doesn't fit O'Brien's offense in the slightest, and they haven't shown any interest in Cutler prior at this point. They aren't going to pay a trade ransom for JG either when they are already down picks next year and he's due a big contract. They will draft a QB with their 1st or trade up from their second as has been said even before the Romo news.

Savage doesn't make them a superbowl favorite but he would be immensely better than Osweiler was last year (almost anyone would be.)
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We don't know this yet. Savage has started all of 2 games in the NFL and played in all of 5. He has been injured twice. He has not thrown a TD in the NFL yet. We don't know what he will be. Hopefully, the Texans get DallasDakLucky with the QB they draft, and the rookie has immediate success. Barring that, I hope they at least draft a rookie who will be their franchise QB for years to come even if he is not all that successful in his rookie campaign.

I don't think they should go with Cutler/Kaepernick as starter because it is another stopgap measure and I don't think either brings enough to make them into a SB contender in 2017. Go with Savage/Rookie and see what you have got. Let Bill O'Brien coach them up with his coaching genius (sarcasm intended).

 
dhockster said:
We don't know this yet. Savage has started all of 2 games in the NFL and played in all of 5. He has been injured twice. He has not thrown a TD in the NFL yet. We don't know what he will be. Hopefully, the Texans get DallasDakLucky with the QB they draft, and the rookie has immediate success. Barring that, I hope they at least draft a rookie who will be their franchise QB for years to come even if he is not all that successful in his rookie campaign.

I don't think they should go with Cutler/Kaepernick as starter because it is another stopgap measure and I don't think either brings enough to make them into a SB contender in 2017. Go with Savage/Rookie and see what you have got. Let Bill O'Brien coach them up with his coaching genius (sarcasm intended).
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Well maybe not "immensely" better but go look at PFF's take on Oswieler, he was historically awful. When looking at QB's with a clean pocket, he had a passer rating of 83.1, there were 5 QB's that had better overall ratings than that. When he was pressured, Osweiler’s passer rating plummeted to 47.3 and he completed under 50 percent of his passes, throwing four times as many interceptions as touchdowns. Only Goff and Gabbert had lower ratings on the year when facing pressure.  So I do feel confident that just about any QB out there would be an improvement, even a total unknown like Savage.

 
Buckna said:
Well maybe not "immensely" better but go look at PFF's take on Oswieler, he was historically awful. When looking at QB's with a clean pocket, he had a passer rating of 83.1, there were 5 QB's that had better overall ratings than that. When he was pressured, Osweiler’s passer rating plummeted to 47.3 and he completed under 50 percent of his passes, throwing four times as many interceptions as touchdowns. Only Goff and Gabbert had lower ratings on the year when facing pressure.  So I do feel confident that just about any QB out there would be an improvement, even a total unknown like Savage.
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No, I agree, I would much rather try out Savage and find out what he has than stick with Osweiller. I just don't have your optimism that he will be immensely better. I had some of those hopes about Mallett too, and he was what we should have known he was. Since Schaub left, the Texans (Rick Smith and/or Bill O'Brien) have really mismanaged the QB position. Yes, I am very good at stating the obvious.

 
I think Houston is caught in a tough spot. They really do need a vet to stabilize the role if nothing else because Savage cannot stay healthy. I don't think that's Brandon Weeden and expect he's the first preseason casualty for the QB spot. Seeing names like Fitz being linked to the Texans again makes me cringe though.

The Texans are likely forced to choose a QB now in the first round and may be forced into trading up if there's a run on QBs too. I'm hoping they don't get caught up in the Jimmy G or AJ McCarron trade scenarios because we've seen how that played out in the past where they were chasing competency at the position.

Best case scenario the Texans pick up a vet on the market and go into camp with him, Savage, Weeden, and whomever they get in the first round. Go into the season with the first three battling for two roster spots while giving the rookie a chance to sit for at least a season or two.

 
Yeah I agree with you both, kind of screwed and just have to make the best of it, but we knew that before Romo retired. I think only the media was the ones saying that Romo was the "savior" for the Texans given his age and injury history. Yeah he's a good QB, but he couldn't even make it out of preseason last year without a major injury. I think the plan is still the same as it has been, draft a QB, sign a vet (just won't be someone as good as Romo now), have them all compete and hopefully the rook has some time to sit before being forced into action.

That cap space savings by getting rid of Oswieler will go to resigning Hopkins, extending Clowney next year and covering the holes next year (I think there are 15 FA's next year although most are role type players.)

Edit: Also I mentioned before that if a player is signed after the draft he doesn't count against comp picks, I think they really want that 3rd pick for Bouye since we had to give up a 2nd to get rid of Oswieler. So IDK if we will see them sign a vet until after the draft.

 
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dhockster said:
I don't think they should go with Cutler/Kaepernick as starter because it is another stopgap measure and I don't think either brings enough to make them into a SB contender in 2017. Go with Savage/Rookie and see what you have got. Let Bill O'Brien coach them up with his coaching genius (sarcasm intended).
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If I was a fan of this team, while I do not think Cutler is necessarily the answer, I'd be perfectly willing to take a chance on him. The Texans have a top notch defense and very good skill position players on offense. New England is clearly the class of the AFC right now, but other than them the rest of the conference is pretty weak. The second best team is probably the Steelers and their defense is still young and Ben and Bell have their injury histories. If Brady goes down or slows down, the path to the Super Bowl is without many road blocks for the Texans.

If O'Brien can somehow pound it in Cutler's head to play more of a game manager role as far as protecting the football - and that his arm does not need to carry this team, I think the Texans could be the No. 2 seed and would just need to find a way to move past the Pats. They can still draft their future QB and see if Cutler can turn his career back around in a new setting. I'm by no means a Cutler fan, and I'm not convinced he can dial back his gunslinger style, but the potential reward outweighs the risk (since I don't think they can win with Savage or a rookie anyway).

 
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