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2021 Houston Texans - (2 Viewers)

kittenmittens said:
Jalen Ramsey.  Same agent. 

Watson seems unlikely to hand the Texans leverage by holding out and costing himself money. 

It seems much more likely that he shows up but doesn't play, like Ramsey.  At this point I would say he's more likely to take the field and hand the ball to the other team to spite the Texans than he is to hand the Texans leverage by holding out and staying away while paying fines and not getting paid 

If people hink the Texans can keep him without his consent I think they are not factoring in the power a QB has both off the field and on it.  QB is the defacto leader of the team on and off the field.  Imagine completely toxic meetings and the leader of the team obviously not caring.  Zero chance of building any culture until that situation ends.  Let alone the embarrassment of paying him to sit the sidelines or turn the ball over on purpose (which doesn't need to happen because just the threat of it is enough). 
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I could be wrong, but I really don't think Deshaun is same type of person as Ramsey. Deshaun never says anything bad about anybody, and seems to just want everyone to get along. I have a hard time seeing him reporting and then intentionally causing turnovers or just playing bad intentionally. Just doesn't fit his personality. Now maybe he is so pissed at the team that he's willing to do that, but it is going to kill him inside to do that.

 
SoBeDad said:
Howard has been excellent almost from day 1. But he has had multiple procedures on his knees. And that domestic incident. Something else to consider. Also, it's not easy to evaluate CBs in the draft. Howard was the #6 CB selected in the 2016 draft, while Miami's first round CB selection in 2020 hasn't been active in most games.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/20/dolphins-cornerback-xavien-howard-undergoes-knee-surgery/amp/
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Howard has to be worth what we have seen traded for Adams and Ramsey, think both were worth 2 1st Round picks or close to it so putting Howard in the equation could help soften how many 1st round picks we gotta send plus if they are willing to take Tua(Houston has never expressed a nickel of interest in him mind you) and then a couple 1st round picks on top, they could likely save some face, still have a young QB to build around at a lot less money and use some draft picks to fill in the holes. Miami keep the 1.03 and get a top flight WR even if they trade down to make Watson happy and pair with DeVante Parker if they even keep him. I highlighted that Parker can be released after June 1st at a fraction of what it will cost to keep him on. They need to focus on extending Gesicki. 

Again, all hyperbole, we are not hearing that the Texans are wanting to trade him or will honor his request and that's the smartest thing they can do is shrug their shoulders and say "o What" when he cries out on social media he wants to be traded. Texans hold most of the leverage and Watson will only lose support since he was well rewarded with his last contract. 

 
dhockster said:
I could be wrong, but I really don't think Deshaun is same type of person as Ramsey. Deshaun never says anything bad about anybody, and seems to just want everyone to get along. I have a hard time seeing him reporting and then intentionally causing turnovers or just playing bad intentionally. Just doesn't fit his personality. Now maybe he is so pissed at the team that he's willing to do that, but it is going to kill him inside to do that.
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Amen

 
dhockster said:
I could be wrong, but I really don't think Deshaun is same type of person as Ramsey. Deshaun never says anything bad about anybody, and seems to just want everyone to get along. I have a hard time seeing him reporting and then intentionally causing turnovers or just playing bad intentionally. Just doesn't fit his personality. Now maybe he is so pissed at the team that he's willing to do that, but it is going to kill him inside to do that.
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Good points, I am certainly assuming he is determined to be done in Houston. 

Was thinking along the same lines as you that he is measured and wouldn't be rash and say anything publicly until its the point of no return. 

I would think that if Houston does play hardball Watson has the upper hand, but only long as he is willing to escalate when needed to put the team in its heals and not back down. 

I would also add that Watson doesn't need any public support.  The public is dumb as all hell and divided on this anyhow.  Some fools in comments sections acting like football is a regular job is par for the course.  "I'd get fired."  yeah no kidding.  If Deshaun got cut he'd by very happy. 

 
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So I have been thinking about this situation, and it is a fascinating situation with how the Texans have gone from up 24-0 on the road in KC in the second quarter of the league quarterfinals last year, to out of the playoffs, star WR gone, head coach fired, 4-12 record, and your franchise QB wanting out of the franchise, all in just over a year's time.

So the group of agents that represents Watson also represented Earl Thomas and Jalen Ramsey, so they are adept at playing the holdout game and are not afraid to play hardball. Since Watson's request for trade has nothing to do with his contract terms, and he is only making $10 million in salary this season, I do think he would sit out the whole season in 2021 if he is not traded. If the Texans want to play hardball with Watson and not trade him, they have a big problem if Deshaun is willing to sit out the season. The Texans won't know for sure he is willing to sit out the season until next season comes. If they then realize they won't have him for the season and decide they want to trade him, what they can get for him is far less than if they traded him before this years draft.

I think Casserio is a smart guy (and I don't know this, he could be like most of the people who leave the Patriots who aren't nearly as good or as smart as when they have Bill Belichick and Tom Brady working with them), and if he has any power within the organization, he will see that the above is true, and he will trade Watson before the draft and get the maximum value for him. If Easterby has the ultimate power on the team, I can see the Texans taking the hard stance, keeping Watson until the season starts and then either trading him for far less than they could have gotten before the draft, or holding onto him as he holds out for the season, and then trade him next offseason. If the latter occurs, I have a hard time seeing the Texans winning more than 3 games in 2021 without Watson and without any high draft picks, big free agent signings (they can't afford it) and probably without JJ Watt who they will move this offseason for marginal compensation and to free up some cap space. So the Texans will have wasted a year of rebuilding. They are truly a crumbling franchise with an incompetent owner who has put his trust in a faux Christian guru who has no discernable skills and yet seems to have authority over all the decision making.

 
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Texans president Jamey Rootes has resigned.

Rootes has spent the last 20 years with the Texans, where he oversaw the business and administrative side of the organization. This isn't related to the Deshaun Watson situation, but the Texans have been shaking up their front office, also moving on from director of football administration Kevin Kracjcovic. PFT's Mike Florio reported part of Rootes' decision to resign is based on his GM recommendations being ignored. Senior VP of corporate development Greg Grissom will oversee business operations until the Texans hire a new president.

- Houston Chronicle
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Living in Houston, I think Rootes has done a great job on the business side of things for the Texans. They have been well promoted, have a good presence in the community and have been sold out since their inception. 

One of the great problems for sports franchises because of the panademic is that fans got to see there is other things to do than go to sporting events and most of those are probably at a far cheaper cost than sporting events. The question is will those fans come back when it is safe to watch games again. I think that most will, but it will depend on that teams current situation.

The Texans are in about the worst possible situation for fans to come back to. Their talent base has dwindled or been traded away, Their star players have all been traded away (Brown, Clowney, Hopkins) or are likely on their way out the door (Watt, Watson), and they lack resources in draft picks and salary cap space to add new star players. They hired a coach who just looks like he is a placeholder for the next coach and they continue to be run by an incompetent owner (McNair)  who is listening to an unqualified executive VP over who knows what (Easterby) who seems to have authority over everything.

Assuming Watson is traded or sits out 2021, I think there will be plenty of empty seats at NRG, and for the first time, not all those seats will have been paid for.

 
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Hard to believe it was just a few years ago that this team had Clowney, JJ, Watson, and Hopkins and was up 24-0 on the Chiefs in a playoff game. We all knew JJ's day was coming, but in the context of the continued fire surrounding Watson what a friggin mess they've made of everything. I really wonder if they want any more fans at all.

We'll, at best, be able to get guys just barely hanging onto their career or someday when we have a draft pick again, get some poor schmucks who get stuck with us. I really want to better understand the business model of what made them think any of this was a good idea. NRG's going to be empty next year and given how clueless these guys have been, I'll bet they'll be the only ones surprised at that.

 
Wow. Watt cut by the Texans.

Talk about a franchise in turmoil. This is levels of dysfunction that I haven’t seen before, and this is saying something since I am a Skins fan.

 
Johnny Utah #9 said:
Wow. Watt cut by the Texans.

Talk about a franchise in turmoil. This is levels of dysfunction that I haven’t seen before, and this is saying something since I am a Skins fan.
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This is not a surprise due to the salary cap and turmoil on the team. Only surprise is that they did not trade him but most likely felt they owed it to him to let him pick his next team. He posted a video thanking the Houston fans stating that he asked for his release and they granted it

 
Buckna said:
This is not a surprise due to the salary cap and turmoil on the team. Only surprise is that they did not trade him but most likely felt they owed it to him to let him pick his next team.
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I think it's kind of a big surprise they did not try and trade him and as Johnny Utah said it certainly reeks of awful dysfunction to just let him go for nothing. He was a valuable trade piece and was we just saw with Stafford it's certainly possible to work with the player and trade him were he wants to go.

 
menobrown said:
I think it's kind of a big surprise they did not try and trade him and as Johnny Utah said it certainly reeks of awful dysfunction to just let him go for nothing. He was a valuable trade piece and was we just saw with Stafford it's certainly possible to work with the player and trade him were he wants to go.
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This exactly. Jack Easterby is driving everyone away from this franchise. 

 
menobrown said:
I think it's kind of a big surprise they did not try and trade him and as Johnny Utah said it certainly reeks of awful dysfunction to just let him go for nothing. He was a valuable trade piece and was we just saw with Stafford it's certainly possible to work with the player and trade him were he wants to go.
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I said it was a surprise they didn’t trade him. :shrug:  He’s been the face of the franchise and the darling of Houston for a decade, granting him his wish for release to pick his next team vs trying to squeeze out a 3rd or a 4th round pick is not great business sense and not what I would have done but is not all that surprising given what he bled for the team over the years.

The bigger dysfunction is they did not trade him during the season when there were rumored offers for him, Fuller, Cooks, and others. Keeping all those guys when the team was clearly going nowhere was beyond dumb along with the many other ridiculous things they’ve done to this point.

 
Buckna said:
I said it was a surprise they didn’t trade him. :shrug:  He’s been the face of the franchise and the darling of Houston for a decade, granting him his wish for release to pick his next team vs trying to squeeze out a 3rd or a 4th round pick is not great business sense and not what I would have done but is not all that surprising given what he bled for the team over the years.
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I was just saying it's a fairly huge surprise to me they did not trade him, not a mild one.

You are absolutely correct he should have been traded at the deadline but I was just reading last week the thought was he'd get back at least a second. We'll never know.

I'm all for being fair to a player but the needs of a franchise should always be priority one. This ain't that.

 
menobrown said:
I was just saying it's a fairly huge surprise to me they did not trade him, not a mild one.

You are absolutely correct he should have been traded at the deadline but I was just reading last week the thought was he'd get back at least a second. We'll never know.

I'm all for being fair to a player but the needs of a franchise should always be priority one. This ain't that.
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I doubt he would have brought a 2nd with his injuries, age and high salary, there aren’t many analogous trades out there recently (Dunlap for a 7th but all that baggage, Clowney for a 3rd but BOB was involved there and Clowney was young but overrated, Frank Clark and Buckner were both considerably younger and healthier.) As you said we’ll never know unless someone leaks an actual offer to the press.

 
Buckna said:
I doubt he would have brought a 2nd with his injuries, age and high salary, there aren’t many analogous trades out there recently (Dunlap for a 7th but all that baggage, Clowney for a 3rd but BOB was involved there and Clowney was young but overrated, Frank Clark and Buckner were both considerably younger and healthier.) As you said we’ll never know unless someone leaks an actual offer to the press.
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 I was using that as ballpark since ex-agent Joel Corry, who I find to be pretty good,  wrote near the trade deadline that he thought Houston could get something like a second and a conditional 6th for him that might turn into a 5th. Obviously it's not near the trade deadline but I'm not sure how much his value is lowered since that time. Some for sure.

It's certainly possible a 3rd or even a 4th is the best they could have got back, as we keep saying how can we know?

I still remain of the opinion that even if was a third or a fourth  it was mismanagement to get nothing. Think they could have got that and still sent him were he wanted to go, they could have come out of this with some kind of trade comp AND not looked like they were crapping on Watt. Again similar to Stafford,  who also shares the same agent as Watt.  The cupboard is pretty bare in Houston, they need all the help they can get,  I can't support giving something away for nothing.

I'm a Steeler fan and this reminds me of when Antonio Brown wanted out. I knew he had to go and his situation was totally different then Watt's for sure but as a fan when I saw one of the greatest WR's in the game go for just a third and a fifth I can't say I was happy. Figured those picks likely turn out to nothing or depth. That third turned into Diontae Johnson. Sometimes these picks don't seem that valuable and most won't be but when you got as many needs as Houston I think you got to maximize every deal.

 
Texans released J.J. Watt. 

Watt in a video posted to Twitter Friday morning said he and the team "mutually agreed to part ways" after his release request. The Texans, true to form, chose not to trade Watt for draft picks or any other form of compensation. A first round pick in 2011, Watt became the face of the Texans franchise over a decade of underachieving Houston teams that were never real championship contenders. Watt, Pro Football Focus' seventh highest-graded edge defender in 2020 who has the third most QB pressures since 2011, is sure to have multiple suitors in the coming months. The potential trade of Deshaun Watson from the dysfunctional franchise leaves the Texans in rebuild mode with few short-term prospects. 

- J.J. Watt, Twitter
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The Texans have a 70's NBA franchise dysfunction going on...still can't believe this is where Caserio wanted to end up.

 
Another sad day for Houston sports.  While JJ was no where near his production in the early 2010s, those Turn Down For Watt days were a lot fun and bring back great memories.  Not to mention, all he's done for Houston.  The city is going to miss #99

 
Buckna said:
This is not a surprise due to the salary cap and turmoil on the team. Only surprise is that they did not trade him but most likely felt they owed it to him to let him pick his next team. He posted a video thanking the Houston fans stating that he asked for his release and they granted it
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I can't be mad at Houston for letting Watt walk but just further reinforces the prevailing opinion that this franchise isn't committed to winning.  They'd rather do the 'right' thing.  You think they could've squeezed out at least a 3rd round pick.  I know Belichick would've got something.   

 
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Every time I see a topic about Watson and/or the Texans I think "a team that had JJ Watt, DeAndre Hopkins & Deshaun Watson somehow managed to completely F that up and never win anything. Impressive". 

Even just having Watson is something at least 28 other teams wouldn't manage to screw up, yet here we are. Bad enough they absolutely ruined David Carr out of the gate, but this is just mind-boggling. 

 
GregR said:
It's hard for me to even read this thread at this point, or look at NFL news.
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I seriously will likely be watching other teams this year, maybe even looking for someone else to follow until they get their heads out of their butts which will probably take a few years.  :sadbanana:

 
Buckna said:
I seriously will likely be watching other teams this year, maybe even looking for someone else to follow until they get their heads out of their butts which will probably take a few years.  :sadbanana:
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This is where I'm at.   If Watson somehow ended up in ARI, it would make that choice easier but I'm definitely leaning toward the Cardinals.  Would love to see JJ and Hop get a ring. 

 
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GregR said:
It's hard for me to even read this thread at this point, or look at NFL news.
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Every time I see something "Texans" in the crawl, it's not excitement I feel. It's an, "Oh shoot, what'd they do now?"

I feel like the Texans are the personification of one of my favorite Simpsons scenes where Homer says he's surprised that someone is trying to get his attention by calling him, "sir." "I'm sorry, I'm just used to people following that with, 'you're making a scene.'"

 
And we continue to make mystifying moves despite the BS media spin about “creating our culture,” bringing in strong locker room guys or other excuses. Restructure DaJohnson instead of just cutting him since he’s a terrible fit for a paltry savings and blow that on 31 year old Mark Ingram. Resign Hargreaves because he can be “coached up” and we are switching to a Tampa 2 4-3, Hargreaves was waived by Tampa! We can’t afford to cut Cunningham and Adams played great in place of McKinney (who’s still not cut yet) and now we’re spending 5M on ANOTHER ILB when we’re switching to a 4-3! Cutting our center Nick Martin (good) but then spending another $5M on a converted guard coming off a torn ACL as his replacement. Culley embarassing himself in an interview and having to issue a statement on Watson.

Ugh, this team. Can’t wait to see what fun they have in store for us once FA actually starts.

 
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McKinney traded to the Dolphins for OLB Shaq Lawson. Similar salaries, bump for Texans from 7th to 6th round. Lawson can play OLB or DE.

 
Good lord, all the clickbait articles showing up since yesterday “Reactions to the MASSIVE Texans/Dolphins Trade!” Then you click on it and it two lines are devoted to Lawson and McKinney and the rest is a rehash of Watson trade speculation. Man the internet sucks

 
A whole lot of roster churn going on, lots of throwing a bunch of guys at the wall with one year deals to see what sticks. At least most are cheap. I’d like the Lindsay signing more had they not wasted money on Ingram.

 
Buckna said:
I’d set the over/under on length of suspension at one year. After that maybe they can trade him but it’s way too early to say much yet.
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The thought that Miami could get Watson along with Fuller without giving up anything makes me nauseous when combined with the Tunsil/Stills fleece.   Those guys straight up owned the Texans. 

 
So we can all see the typical Texans coming in all of the movement and situations right?

I feel like I know what’s going to happen:

We stalled on Watson and now we know what’s going on there. Let’s assume it works out for him and he can still play this year. It almost certainly won’t be figured out before the draft. 

Next, the holdout will commence. He’ll sit and we will tell him he’ll be traded in the offseason. 

Texans trade Watson for a fraction of what they’d have gotten earlier this offseason and then they look up and see next draft’s QB draft class and realize it’s a lot weaker than this one and attempt to overpay for an average QB that’d have probably been QB5 or QB6 in this class. 

I hope they prove me wrong, but it seems too obvious how they’ll blow this. 

 
The legal issues notwithstanding, with the Darnold trade, things just really ramped up in heat in Houston now too. Fewer and fewer trade partners remain and Carolina was always an intriguing option because they were throwing out the terms like "the farm" for Watson.

You could argue SF and NYJ remain in play through the draft, but I'm not sure they haven't already mentally moved on full bore. If I'm Caserio, the Jets are an option still if we really value Wilson. If not, do you trade Watson and bank on Fields or Lance or Mac Jones instead? I can't see them doing it unless they feel like they'd be getting one of the more sure-fire talents (Lawrence, Wilson).

 
I just don't see anyone trading for Watson with the allegations hanging over him. What will be interesting is if he say gets suspended for 8 games, do those count towards an accrued season? Could he then hold out for part of the season and serve his suspension or does he have to report to get credit?

Looking like a lost year ending up with I would guess a top 3 pick next year. Only good news is that Miami, Philly, & Detroit will all be sitting on multiple extra picks this time next year and all 3 may be in the market for a QB. Carolina will likely be in the market again since Darnold sucks.

 
Buckna said:
I just don't see anyone trading for Watson with the allegations hanging over him. What will be interesting is if he say gets suspended for 8 games, do those count towards an accrued season? Could he then hold out for part of the season and serve his suspension or does he have to report to get credit?

Looking like a lost year ending up with I would guess a top 3 pick next year. Only good news is that Miami, Philly, & Detroit will all be sitting on multiple extra picks this time next year and all 3 may be in the market for a QB. Carolina will likely be in the market again since Darnold sucks.
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Gotta be greedy when others are fearful.  I know some Carolina fans hoping they can flip Darnold to the Texans in the Watson package. 

 
Buckna said:
I just don't see anyone trading for Watson with the allegations hanging over him. What will be interesting is if he say gets suspended for 8 games, do those count towards an accrued season? Could he then hold out for part of the season and serve his suspension or does he have to report to get credit?

Looking like a lost year ending up with I would guess a top 3 pick next year. Only good news is that Miami, Philly, & Detroit will all be sitting on multiple extra picks this time next year and all 3 may be in the market for a QB. Carolina will likely be in the market again since Darnold sucks.
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Yep:  https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-of-sam-darnold-reveals-a-truth-about-deshaun-watson-trade-partners-are-backing-away-052451508.html

 
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