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2021 New York football Giants (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Yenrub
- Start date
RC94
Footballguy
Getting rid of Gettleman would be addition by subtraction, so either way that would benefit the team. As far as who to replace him, I don't want another retread. I would prefer to go the Joe Douglas route and find a promising up and coming front office person. Maybe the assistant GM/#2 person in BAL or another consistently good team.
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Yenrub
Footballguy
RC94
Footballguy
I'm not sure of the rules or their actual status, but I'm curious whether the NYG GM job would be considered a promotion for the person they call GM on teams where the coach is essentially the main GM (like in KC, SEA, and LVR). If it is considered a promotion, would they be available under whatever league rules that are in place for these positions?
RC94
Footballguy
I was never in favor of hiring Garrett as OC because he hadn't called plays in years and so far I'm not at all impressed. He really needs to develop Jones, but so far he's regressed. It's obviously a downgrade to go from Barkley to Freeman/Gallman, but ATL had some very good offenses with Freeman as the primary RB so I think they should still be able to support Jones and put up some points with better coaching. I didn't expect the offense to be KC, but I did expect a good deal more. I don't expect much from the defense and didn't expect this team to get more than 6 wins, but I did expect this offense to be much better than it has been and I didn't expect to be competing for the 1st overall pick next year.
On a separate note, just like with the Jets, I think one of the biggest problems this team has is ownership. Trust fund morons. They are going to hold this team back unless they stop hiring friends to run the team (Gettleman and Garrett), find a good GM, and then let the football people do their jobs.
On a separate note, just like with the Jets, I think one of the biggest problems this team has is ownership. Trust fund morons. They are going to hold this team back unless they stop hiring friends to run the team (Gettleman and Garrett), find a good GM, and then let the football people do their jobs.
Yenrub
Footballguy
No one should be surprised that the offense looks bad.
They are starting a rookie LT
The center is a 2nd year player who has never played center before
The RT is a journeyman
RC94
Footballguy
I think this is a bad team (6 win team), but they shouldn't be a 2 or 3 win team. Right now I can't think of anyone on their schedule who will be an underdog against the Giants, even WAS and CIN. Thomas, even though he's a rookie, may still be an upgrade over Solder. It says a lot about Gettleman's team building capabilities when he's focused so much on improving the o-line and spent a lot of resources doing so and yet it's still a team weakness.
So with this strange season quickly becoming a Titanic(pun intended) disaster.
What do we do with the number one pick next year?
Keep it and draft the best lineman in the draft.
Trade it for someone's #1 and more picks. Possibly still a high #1 if that team wants Lawrence.
Or draft Lawrence.
What do we do with the number one pick next year?
Keep it and draft the best lineman in the draft.
Trade it for someone's #1 and more picks. Possibly still a high #1 if that team wants Lawrence.
Or draft Lawrence.
RC94
Footballguy
If they get 1.01 I would like to see them take Lawrence and trade Jones. MIA gave up a 2nd for Rosen and most people thought it was worth it. Maybe they can trade Jones to a team like PIT or TB for their 1st, which should be late in the round. That would give one of them a good successor option (better than Rosen ever has been) and the Giants can get a good player with that pick, like some pass rush or CB help. It would also benefit Jones because he can learn from a player like Ben or Brady and then take over on a team that's much better then the Giants.
RC94
Footballguy
New York City based football teams aren't looking good at all right now. I could see the Jets with 1.01
Yenrub
Footballguy
I watched the condensed version of the Rams game while on the treadmill this evening.
The defense played very well with the exception of the Rams 1st drive and the blown coverage on the Kupp TD. Even with those two drives they played well enough to win.
I haven’t looked at the stats but it sure did seem like the Giants ran the ball on 1st and 10 every single time. I’m sure they didn’t but it seemed that way.
The defense played very well with the exception of the Rams 1st drive and the blown coverage on the Kupp TD. Even with those two drives they played well enough to win.
I haven’t looked at the stats but it sure did seem like the Giants ran the ball on 1st and 10 every single time. I’m sure they didn’t but it seemed that way.
Yenrub
Footballguy
27 1st and 10 plays.
Incomplete pass to Engram
Freeman 3-yard run
Freeman -1-yard run
Board 3-yard reception
Freeman 4-yard run
Freeman 4-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Incomplete pass to Slayton
Lewis 4-yard reception
Incomplete pass to Engram
Freeman 3-yard run
Tate -1-yard reception
Freeman 3-yard run
Freeman 3-yard run
Jones 5-yard run
Freeman 10-yard run
Freeman 9-yard reception
Gallman 26-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Ratley 9-yard reception
Freeman 0-yard run
Freeman 13-yard reception
Slayton 33-yard reception
Incomplete pass to Tate
Incomplete pass to Engram
Engram 5-yard reception
Incomplete pass to Engram
Freeman 3-yard run
Freeman -1-yard run
Board 3-yard reception
Freeman 4-yard run
Freeman 4-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Incomplete pass to Slayton
Lewis 4-yard reception
Incomplete pass to Engram
Freeman 3-yard run
Tate -1-yard reception
Freeman 3-yard run
Freeman 3-yard run
Jones 5-yard run
Freeman 10-yard run
Freeman 9-yard reception
Gallman 26-yard run
Gallman 4-yard run
Ratley 9-yard reception
Freeman 0-yard run
Freeman 13-yard reception
Slayton 33-yard reception
Incomplete pass to Tate
Incomplete pass to Engram
Engram 5-yard reception
This was a real ####ty loss ... The entire division would have been tied with 1 loss each and the Giants have been looking stronger than the rest of the division
0-5 but the Giants have been making progress and easily could have 2 or 3 wins if a few breaks had gone their way. It looks like every single call or bad bounce is against them this year.
Giants have out played their opponents the last 2 weeks and come away with nothing ...2 TDs called back on what were really ticky tack calls this week and 2 absolutely incredible borderline catches killed them this week
0-5 but the Giants have been making progress and easily could have 2 or 3 wins if a few breaks had gone their way. It looks like every single call or bad bounce is against them this year.
Giants have out played their opponents the last 2 weeks and come away with nothing ...2 TDs called back on what were really ticky tack calls this week and 2 absolutely incredible borderline catches killed them this week
The Frankman
Footballguy
Have they? Their opponents aren't shooting themselves in the foot with penalties/poor execution and when the opponents needed to make a big play/key conversion they did. After the way CeeDee Lamb and Zeke kept churning and getting conversions I can't say Giants outplayed the Cowboys.
I will say that's the best Daniel Jones has looked this season and it goes hand in hand with him actually recognizing pressure on a more consistent basis and making better decisions (except that one time) and Garrett using Engram like he's an uber-athletic TE and not Jason Witten. Run game also looked good and the thing the Giants need to do is continue to have productive drives that at least change field position advantage if they don't score. No multiple 3 and outs, no horrible procedural penalties, and for the love of God no multiple turnover games from the QB position.
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I get that a Loss is Loss but ...
Vs Dallas ...The illegal motion call on the fake FG was absolute BS ... even Romo thought so. It was questionaable wehether he was set or not as the ball was snapped and even if he was not it was close enough not a to call and had zero to do with the play. The announcers also seemed to think the illegal pick wa also questionable since there was no intent. There were a number of blantant Dallas holding calls that did not called including the final play that put them in FG position. Giants also won time of possesion
Also where the hell did Adrian Colbert come from?? I never even heard of him until yestareday and he seemed to be on the wrong end of every big play for Dallas
Vs LA the Giants had more Yards and controlled the time of possesion. They completely shut down the Rams ground game and 20% of the Rams total yards came on 1 botched play. Giants were too conservative and 2 bone headed plays cost them but they certainly werent outplayed
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Romo spent the majority of the game trying to sing Danny Penny's praises as he continued to show he's just not a starting NFL QB. I'm not sure you can trust anything Romo said yesterday other than that he was upset at dak's injury.
But back to the point - Jones needs to be benched. He's just flat out bad.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Can't bench him because there's no vet behind him to really go to (Colt McCoy? OOOOOOF!). Might as well throw him to the wolves and evaluate him considering he's supposed to be an NFL-ready talent. Worse case scenario is that he truly doesn't improve, but then the Trevor Lawrence era can begin in 2021.
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Yenrub
Footballguy
Adding injury to insult. Lorenzo Carter tore his Achilles and is out for the season
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30102271/new-york-giants-lose-lb-lorenzo-carter-season-ruptured-achilles
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30102271/new-york-giants-lose-lb-lorenzo-carter-season-ruptured-achilles
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Worst - Worst case is he shows just enough that the giants think they don't need to upgrade at qb next year and can spend their early first on a different position of need.
Evaluation time is over. He's terrible.
Not Sure what you are watching. He is not great so far but he looks like he could be pretty good.wgoldsph said:
He is playing on the worst team in football with one of the top 3 worst Olines which certainly doesnt help. His WR are some of the worst in the NFL at getting seperation and his star running back has played about 10 healthy game since Jones has been there.He's also working in in 2nd offense in 2 years, new coaching staff and no preseason
His rookie season was one of the best in history and he is clearly a better pcik than the clowns that everyone was demanding the Giants take over him Darnold, Haskins and Rosen .
You know who leads the league in fumbles this season ? Joe Burrow ... maybe Cincy should consider losing the rest of their games for Trevor Lawrence
The Frankman
Footballguy
"Best in History"... yikes. Sure if you include the massive amount of turnovers. And I would take Burrow so fast over Jones I'd get pulled over for speeding driving him to the airport to make the trade. I hope we aren't really comparing Burrow to Jones here...
Yenrub
Footballguy
Sorry ...it's a fact ... You dont have tolike it but you cant change it
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/daniel-jones-ties-rookie-quarterback-record-held-by-fran-tarkenton-deshaun-watson/
I would take Burrow over Jones as well ... but that's not the point. The point is all young QBs struggle even the best of them .
Also not sure but you may have been one of the ones that would have also taken Haskins, Darnold and Rosen over Jones. I'm sure you supported the Giants drafting at least one or all of them .
Fess up ...Dont make look it up !!!!
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Right ... And Burrow leads the NFL with 5 ... again the point is not that Jones is better than Burrow.
The Point is that young QBs Struggle ask Peyton Manning ... He had 28 Ints his rookie season ...Jones had 12
Through the 1st 3-4 games the Giants Oline ranked 31st in the nfl and their running game was dead last ... They are missing their star RB and the #1 WR. Not many QBs would thrive in that environment
Yenrub
Footballguy
I agree with you that Jones isn’t terrible and that he isn’t the Giants biggest issue.
That being said, I don’t think he has the upside that a Trevor Lawrence has and if/when the Giants are presented with a Jones or Lawrence decision, they are going to have to think long and hard about it.
I agree that he has a tough environment to deal with but he has also not delivered in a couple of situations this season (Rams & Cowboys) when he had a chance to. The kid from the Chargers produced in less than idea environment last night (bad OL, top RB out, top WR hurt during game)
I would have taken Herbert in a heartbeat over Jones ... I was pushing for the Giants to pass on a QB in 2019 because Herbert and Tua were available ... that was before Burrow even became a household name.
But ... and I do know if you were one of them but just about every fan on this board said the Giants absolutely had to take a QB and most were pushing for Haskins . I even said wait a year and sign Tannehill and got flammed for it .
You dont Draft a QB high just because you need one ... most of them bust. You wait until there is someone special available. Herbert Tua and Burrow are special.
Yenrub
Footballguy
No I didn’t want them to take a QB. They had back to back seasons where they finished 28th or worse in sacks, I wanted them to take Josh Allen (LB Kentucky)
RC94
Footballguy
The evaluation time for Jones is not over and giving up on him at this point would be idiotic. He showed more than enough last year as a rookie to give him more time, especially considering the change in coaching and system. This coaching staff hasn't done this team any favors, especially on offense. That's what you get when you hire people who aren't qualified, especially an offensive coordinator who hasn't called plays in years. The entire offense was so much better last year you have to give the coaching most of the blame IMO. Losing Barkley and Shepherd sucks, but they are still able to run the ball as well as can be expected with that o-line so I don't think the running game is really the problem, and with Slayton, Tate and Engram they still have some good receiving weapons.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Wow. Just wow. A qb who had 18 fumbles in a season being the best in anything other than fumbling... Wooow. I want some of that kool-aid.
Also take out his games against Washington, jets, and Detroit, and his stats basically get cut in half... Except for turnovers. Three terrible defenses made him look good last year and this year he cant even manage to get a td on Dallas's terrible d, showing he's not even advancing. But hey, at least he didn't throw an int this year for one game. Still lost a fumble though.
Giants are dead last in rushing ... so the running game has certainly been a major problem. It does seem to be getting better ... the team as a whole has improved over the past couple of weeks after that San Fran debacle.
Also interesting .... PFF has Jones rated much higher this season than last. He is currently QB 13 with a 75.4 grade (65.9 in 2019) ...ahead of a lot of big names Big Ben, Brees , Herbert and Burrow to name a few
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Most who lose the majority of their production when you take out a fourth of their games aren't good.
RC94
Footballguy
Until this week they were dead last in a lot of stats on offense. They still are one of the worst overall, not just running. However, a big reason they are dead last in rushing after 5 games is one of those games Barkley had 15 carries for 6 yards. My point about the running game is that Freeman/Gallman haven't been holding the offense back as much as the coaches and that there's enough healthy talent at the skill positions where I think the problem is more coaching than the players.
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The Frankman
Footballguy
To me he never really should have been signed (really liked what Corey Coleman brought the team) but he was released due to the development of CJ Board.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Defense absolutely stood on their heads to win this. Bradberry is looking like a true shutdown corner, something he definitely wasn't in Carolina. Blake Martinez was a tackling machine again, even Fackrell had another good game. Plus Leonard "I Get Close But No Cigar" Williams had a sack!
The only bad thing about the outcome is they're making the Trevor Lawrence Race competitive now...
The only bad thing about the outcome is they're making the Trevor Lawrence Race competitive now...
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Yeah unfortunately I dont think we are going to have a shot at Trevor ... The Jets are making a serious push and how Ironic would it be if we lost Trevor to the Skins after losing Chase last draft .
On the Bright Side ... If the Cowboys lose tonight the Giants are 1 game out of 1st place
This is encouraging ...
https://www.bigblueview.com/2020/10/19/21522791/pff-grades-stats-snap-counts-ny-giants-week-6-playing-time
Peart ended up with a close to elite PFF grade of 89.7. He was elite as a run blocker with a 93.4 score in 15 run-blocking snaps
https://www.bigblueview.com/2020/10/19/21522791/pff-grades-stats-snap-counts-ny-giants-week-6-playing-time
Peart ended up with a close to elite PFF grade of 89.7. He was elite as a run blocker with a 93.4 score in 15 run-blocking snaps
I kinda want the win ... It's a strange season so far and the NFC east is winnable
Giants are probaly the healthiest of the 4 teams ... Iand I feel like they are making progress weekly.
Who knows ... A young team with new coaches could surpise.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
Well Danny wasn’t great yesterday, but they got the win. I read that Danny has had a turnover in every game of his career. Not sure if that is true but if it is, he really needs to clean that up.
It will be interesting to see what they with OL this week and going forward. I wonder if they are going to let Peart start at RT this week over Fleming.
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