2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (3 Viewers)

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Apparently Ben Simmons deleted his Instagram.

He posted a pic looking like it was after a workout with the caption "feeling incredible" and then a few hours later the KD trade request came out.  And then two days later his account was deactivated.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Nets apparently asked the Timberwolves for KAT and Edwards plus 4 first round picks for Durant. Shockingly, Minnesota turned them down.

 

[Gatorman]

Probably both.

Love Jimmy and he was basically giving crap to a few of his friends.  

 

[msudaisy26]

Nets apparently asked the Timberwolves for KAT and Edwards plus 4 first round picks for Durant. Shockingly, Minnesota turned them down.

This is starting out like the Ben Simmons fiasco from last year. I understand asking for the moon, but when the offers aren't there is it time to cut bait. Seasons starts October 18th. Realistically they need to move Durant by the beginning of October. 

If not the return goes down and it makes everyone and everything look worse. 

 

[the moops]

This is starting out like the Ben Simmons fiasco from last year. I understand asking for the moon, but when the offers aren't there is it time to cut bait. Seasons starts October 18th. Realistically they need to move Durant by the beginning of October. 

If not the return goes down and it makes everyone and everything look worse. 

I don't know. At the deadline there will still be the boatload of picks and a couple good young guys available

 

[Capella]

This is starting out like the Ben Simmons fiasco from last year. I understand asking for the moon, but when the offers aren't there is it time to cut bait. Seasons starts October 18th. Realistically they need to move Durant by the beginning of October. 

If not the return goes down and it makes everyone and everything look worse. 

It’s Kevin Durant, you can trade him whenever you are ready. Offers aren’t going to go down for Kd. 

 

[msudaisy26]

I don't know. At the deadline there will still be the boatload of picks and a couple good young guys available

Yeah, but  then you have less teams bidding and Durant pissed off. 

 

[msudaisy26]

It’s Kevin Durant, you can trade him whenever you are ready. Offers aren’t going to go down for Kd. 

They will, especially if they go into the season and he is banged up, pissed off or shows signs of aging. You don't gamble with this type of trade chip. 

 

[Capella]

They will, especially if they go into the season and he is banged up, pissed off or shows signs of aging. You don't gamble with this type of trade chip. 

Nah you wait till you have the best offer for KD. Rushing into this would be crazy. He’s going to have a market. 

 

[msudaisy26]

Nah you wait till you have the best offer for KD. Rushing into this would be crazy. He’s going to have a market. 

I guess I am a little less risky. I feel like you have a winning lotto ticket worth 10 million and they are offering you the lump sum for 7 and instead you are holding out for 20 year payments to get the 10 million, but you are 70 years old with a bunch of medical conditions. 

 

[the moops]

I guess I am a little less risky. I feel like you have a winning lotto ticket worth 10 million and they are offering you the lump sum for 7 and instead you are holding out for 20 year payments to get the 10 million, but you are 70 years old with a bunch of medical conditions. 

I don't agree with this take but hell of a creative job on that analogy.  

 

[Capella]

I guess I am a little less risky. I feel like you have a winning lotto ticket worth 10 million and they are offering you the lump sum for 7 and instead you are holding out for 20 year payments to get the 10 million, but you are 70 years old with a bunch of medical conditions. 

 

 

[jhib]

Nets apparently asked the Timberwolves for KAT and Edwards plus 4 first round picks for Durant. Shockingly, Minnesota turned them down.

This is starting out like the Ben Simmons fiasco from last year. I understand asking for the moon, but when the offers aren't there is it time to cut bait. Seasons starts October 18th. Realistically they need to move Durant by the beginning of October. 

If not the return goes down and it makes everyone and everything look worse. 

It sounds like it was an initial ask to potentially set up further negotiation. I'm sure those happen all the time without us hearing about them, and would usually  sound pretty unrealistic. It also sounds like Minnesota was unwilling to give up either KAT or Edwards in a deal, so what kind of deal do you think they should have taken?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It sounds like it was an initial ask to potentially set up further negotiation. I'm sure those happen all the time without us hearing about them, and would usually  sound pretty unrealistic. It also sounds like Minnesota was unwilling to give up either KAT or Towns in a deal, so what kind of deal do you think they should have taken?

I’m not sure what you’re asking? What deal should the Nets have taken?

I was just posting something I read.

 

[jhib]

I’m not sure what you’re asking? What deal should the Nets have taken?

I was just posting something I read.

Sorry, the question was to msudaisy, who seemed to me to be reading a lot into what you posted.

To me it just sounded like two teams that were far enough apart to not want to bother trying to meet somewhere in the middle. And someone on either side (or both sides) decided it was in their best interest to put out the info.

 

[Frostillicus]

Luka just announced on his Instagram that he will be representing Team Jordan by bringing a Slovenian team to Quai 54 in Paris this weekend. Quai 54 is the largest Streetball tournament in the world. This is the 17th year of this tournament being held in Paris, with the games being played right at the base of the Eiffel Tour. Sixteen men's teams of pro and amateur players (10 nations competing) will play for a title; along with eight women's teams in a separate bracket.

If you ever wanted to see Luka at the equivalent of Rucker Park, here's your chance.

http://www.quai54.com/

Never heard of this thing.

 

[msudaisy26]

It sounds like it was an initial ask to potentially set up further negotiation. I'm sure those happen all the time without us hearing about them, and would usually  sound pretty unrealistic. It also sounds like Minnesota was unwilling to give up either KAT or Towns in a deal, so what kind of deal do you think they should have taken?

I don't think there was a deal yet. I also have no issue asking for the moon from teams for now. I just think there isn't a long time to get the most for Durant. I think they have a couple of months, but the longer they wait the more teams that come off the list. T-Wolves already out, Hawks out, maybe the Pelicans make a move because the asking price is too high and then they are out or Toronto or whoever. 

The other factor is KD isn't Harden or Kyrie or Simmons. He isn't going to sit out. He wants to play. What if he gets hurt playing some meaningless games in Brooklyn because the GM went all Morey? KD is also 34 and has had some major injuries, they will catch up to him soon or later. I wouldn't even take the chance that he plays games for Brooklyn and then looks old and loses value. 

There is time and a sweet spot for Brooklyn to get max value, but I disagree with everyone in here that says let him rot on the Nets until someone pays up, or that they can take this into the season because he is signed for 4 more years. It is just too risky IMO. 

 

[jhib]

The other factor is KD isn't Harden or Kyrie or Simmons. He isn't going to sit out. He wants to play. What if he gets hurt playing some meaningless games in Brooklyn because the GM went all Morey? KD is also 34 and has had some major injuries, they will catch up to him soon or later. I wouldn't even take the chance that he plays games for Brooklyn and then looks old and loses value. 

I do think I agree that if he is still on the team when games start and still demanding a trade, I don't play him if I'm Brooklyn.  I don't care if he doesn't want to sit out at that point.  If he's not mentally on the team, what's the point of playing him? 

 

[nirad3]

msudaisy has been spot on with her posts over the past couple of pages... KD is in a weird spot here but I think his time to find the right spot... the window so to speak... is closing fast.... dude's a stud and could be the tipping point for a team being a contender versus being a legit top dog is imminent... i mean, really... who are the lead dogs in terms of actually having the firepower to land him?   that supposed deal from the t-wolves was straight up lunacy... there's no way that was actually real.... lol

i've always been a big KD guy (UT fan) but he's kind of a diva and i'm growing tired of his BS.... anyways... excited to see how this all plays out... it's a big time soap opera as far as i'm concerned.... as a "more than casual" type of fan

 

[Navin Johnson]

I don't think there was a deal yet. I also have no issue asking for the moon from teams for now. I just think there isn't a long time to get the most for Durant. I think they have a couple of months, but the longer they wait the more teams that come off the list. T-Wolves already out, Hawks out, maybe the Pelicans make a move because the asking price is too high and then they are out or Toronto or whoever. 

The other factor is KD isn't Harden or Kyrie or Simmons. He isn't going to sit out. He wants to play. What if he gets hurt playing some meaningless games in Brooklyn because the GM went all Morey? KD is also 34 and has had some major injuries, they will catch up to him soon or later. I wouldn't even take the chance that he plays games for Brooklyn and then looks old and loses value. 

There is time and a sweet spot for Brooklyn to get max value, but I disagree with everyone in here that says let him rot on the Nets until someone pays up, or that they can take this into the season because he is signed for 4 more years. It is just too risky IMO. 

I don't think anyone can be sure he won't sit out. 

 

[Anarchy99]

Saw a tweet that the Nets asked for Tatum, Smart, White, and 4 firsts for KD. Good luck with that. 

 

[offdee]

that supposed deal for KD from the t-wolves was straight up lunacy... there's no way that was actually real.... lol

I'm sure it was real and I'm sure the Nets knew it was lunacy and was never gonna be accepted.   I also wouldn't be surprised if the Nets are actually the ones who leaked it to the media.   It's basically them saying, don't come to us with lowball offers for KD cuz it ain't happening.   If you want him, it's gonna be a lot.   It's actually a smart move....kind of shows every team what an initial Nets offer would look like and they should try to come as comparably close as possible with their assets before wasting the Nets time.

 

[Capella]

Saw a tweet that the Nets asked for Tatum, Smart, White, and 4 firsts for KD. Good luck with that. 

I mean White is just another guy. You don’t think Tatum and Smart and some late firsts are worth Durant? Don’t you want to win a title?

 

[Anarchy99]

I mean White is just another guy. You don’t think Tatum and Smart and some late firsts are worth Durant? Don’t you want to win a title?

Tatum is 10 years younger, still improving, and at this point could be considered better than KD already. Swap out Tatum for Brown and it would be closer, but Boston has said Brown is not available. The C’s appear set on keeping their core of young players together. 

 

[Capella]

and at this point could be considered better than KD already

No, he definitely couldn’t. 

 

[Capella]

I mean you can argue you will have Tatum longer (obviously) and he has room to improve but there’s no way he’s better than KD right now or gives them a better chance at a 2023 title. 

 

[offdee]

I mean you can argue you will have Tatum longer (obviously) and he has room to improve but there’s no way he’s better than KD right now or gives them a better chance at a 2023 title. 

Agreed.  Not sure how you can say Tatum is better. It's all about crunch time with stars and KD is light years more of a crunch time assassin than Tatum is.

 

[nysfl2]

KD is better right now, but I wouldn't trade Tatum for him if I was the Celtics

 

[Navin Johnson]

Tatum is 10 years younger, still improving, and at this point could be considered better than KD already. Swap out Tatum for Brown and it would be closer, but Boston has said Brown is not available. The C’s appear set on keeping their core of young players together. 

Hell. 

No.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Tatum is 10 years younger, still improving, and at this point could be considered better than KD already. 

Better at what? Maybe chess.

 

[SayWhat?]

It sounds like it was an initial ask to potentially set up further negotiation. I'm sure those happen all the time without us hearing about them, and would usually  sound pretty unrealistic. It also sounds like Minnesota was unwilling to give up either KAT or Towns in a deal, so what kind of deal do you think they should have taken?

I would give up KAT or Towns to get KD, but I wouldn’t give up ANT or Edwards.  

 

[Capella]

KD is better right now, but I wouldn't trade Tatum for him if I was the Celtics

Is the goal to win a title or two or to win 48 games and lose in the second round the next 7 years?

 

[Chris B.]

KD is better right now, but I wouldn't trade Tatum for him if I was the Celtics

Straight up, I would. But not the whole package that they're asking for.

 

[the moops]

I love KD - I think over the past dozen years he is second only to Lebron and he had several years where he was the clearly the best player in the league. However, he will be 34 before the start of next season.

The advance stats, especially considering Tatum's defense, have him already better than Durant. And we just saw a first round matchup where Tatum clearly outplayed Durant. He played some of the best defense I have ever seen against KD, all while having a much better offensive series than KD.

It is for sure a debate whether you trade Tatum straight up for KD, IMO. Even if KD is a better player, the age difference alone has to make you pause. And now adding in 2 very important players and 4 firsts and it is an immediate no.

One playoff series does not decide this, and KD had a much worse team around him, but...

TATUM

29.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.8 steals, .8 blocks

42% from three

KD

26.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1 steal, .3 blocks

33% from three

 

[msudaisy26]

I love KD - I think over the past dozen years he is second only to Lebron and he had several years where he was the clearly the best player in the league. However, he will be 34 before the start of next season.

The advance stats, especially considering Tatum's defense, have him already better than Durant. And we just saw a first round matchup where Tatum clearly outplayed Durant. He played some of the best defense I have ever seen against KD, all while having a much better offensive series than KD.

It is for sure a debate whether you trade Tatum straight up for KD, IMO. Even if KD is a better player, the age difference alone has to make you pause. And now adding in 2 very important players and 4 firsts and it is an immediate no.

One playoff series does not decide this, and KD had a much worse team around him, but...

TATUM

29.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.8 steals, .8 blocks

42% from three

KD

26.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1 steal, .3 blocks

33% from three

Well done and completely agree. 

 

[the moops]

Is the goal to win a title or two or to win 48 games and lose in the second round the next 7 years?

Well, in 4 of his 5 years in the league they have won 38 or more games, and have made it past the 2nd round 3 times

 

[msudaisy26]

Jaden Ivy 20, 6 and 6 in his first summer league game. LeBron only had 14, 7 and 6 in his first summer league games. 

 

[ShamrockPride]

Whatever metric you're arguing, advanced stats or otherwise, IMO, (and obviously this isn't realistic, there would be other pieces involved), simply swapping out KD for JT isn't winning Boston a title. In that scenario, JB still needs to up his offensive consistency and drop his TOs, and we need to see if he's even capable of that.

It's more than likely GS is the team the winner of the East plays this year (barring injuries of course), and even then I don't think Boston could keep up even with KD.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Also, Durant has played just 90 games over the last 2 seasons since coming back from a blown achilles, going into his age 34 season.

It's probably safe to approach him as semi-damaged goods (or at the least, extremely fragile goods) for the rest of his career. Which kinda makes BRK's trade demands even crazier.

I don't think you'll see skill decrease from him. Great shooters can always shoot. But it's going to be a challenge keeping him healthy and "load managing" the rest of his career.

 

[Ilov80s]

Jaden Ivy 20, 6 and 6 in his first summer league game. LeBron only had 14, 7 and 6 in his first summer league games. 

More important than the numbers, he looked as advertised. The quickness, first step and explosiveness at the rim immediately jumped off the screen. Duren is going to be a menace around the rim as well. He’s ferocious. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I mean you can argue you will have Tatum longer (obviously) and he has room to improve but there’s no way he’s better than KD right now or gives them a better chance at a 2023 title. 

KD is much better than Tatum right now, and Tatum probably never gets as good as KD even is currently.  

 

[the moops]

KD is much better than Tatum right now, and Tatum probably never gets as good as KD even is currently.  

What metrics are you using to say this? I mean, it should be a debate, shouldn't it? I don't see any reason to say KD is MUCH better than Tatum or that how KD is playing now is a level Tatum will never reach.

PER doesn't seem to like Tatum all that much. But 538 Raptor has Tatum as a significantly better player this past year. B-ref VORP has Tatum as better. DARKO, LEBRON both have Tatum as better. NBA real +/- has Tatum as better. He outplayed Durant in their head to head playoff matchup.

I think people really, really underestimate how good on defense Tatum is. Durant used to be an excellent defender. He is no longer and grades out as fairly pedestrian on that end.

I know one metric is not a great way to look at players, but collectively they paint a pretty picture of Tatum. In fact RAPTOR has Tatum in 19/20 and 21/22 as better than anything Durant has done over the 5 years Tatum as been in the league. Same goes for RPM (Tatum having two better years in those same years than anything Durant has done in that same time frame).

This feels weird for me to say. I wouldn't have called myself a Tatum skeptic, but I was always leaning more towards him being better fit as 2nd best on a team. But what he has turned himself into at the age of 24 is quite remarkable. 

 

[urbanhack]

Jaden Ivy 20, 6 and 6 in his first summer league game. LeBron only had 14, 7 and 6 in his first summer league games. 

I'm now a Pistons fan. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What metrics are you using to say this? I mean, it should be a debate, shouldn't it? I don't see any reason to say KD is MUCH better than Tatum or that how KD is playing now is a level Tatum will never reach.

PER doesn't seem to like Tatum all that much. But 538 Raptor has Tatum as a significantly better player this past year. B-ref VORP has Tatum as better. DARKO, LEBRON both have Tatum as better. NBA real +/- has Tatum as better. He outplayed Durant in their head to head playoff matchup.

I think people really, really underestimate how good on defense Tatum is. Durant used to be an excellent defender. He is no longer and grades out as fairly pedestrian on that end.

I know one metric is not a great way to look at players, but collectively they paint a pretty picture of Tatum. In fact RAPTOR has Tatum in 19/20 and 21/22 as better than anything Durant has done over the 5 years Tatum as been in the league. Same goes for RPM (Tatum having two better years in those same years than anything Durant has done in that same time frame).

This feels weird for me to say. I wouldn't have called myself a Tatum skeptic, but I was always leaning more towards him being better fit as 2nd best on a team. But what he has turned himself into at the age of 24 is quite remarkable. 

Just my eyes.  Tatum with the ball at the end of the game elicits no fear in me. He seems like one of those good era players, but not transcendent and not one to lead a championship team IMO.  KD can win you a title today, tomorrow, and the next day.  

 

[the moops]

Just my eyes.  Tatum with the ball at the end of the game elicits no fear in me. He seems like one of those good era players, but not transcendent and not one to lead a championship team IMO.  KD can win you a title today, tomorrow, and the next day.  

Except he hasn't done that except when he paired with Steph and Draymond and Green

 

[Capella]

Boston fans trumping up the same advanced stats that had their team as 83% to win the finals is kinda silly. Some stats still need work, especially when looking at individual defense in a team environment where a guy is surrounded by superior rim protectors and better perimeter defenders than what KD has.
 

I doubt there is anybody in the nba outside of Boston who would take Tatum over KD, especially given how bad he was in the finals. 
 

KD is a guy who can win you a title. Tatum is a guy who can help the guy like KD win a title. 

 

[Boston]

Just my eyes.  Tatum with the ball at the end of the game elicits no fear in me. He seems like one of those good era players, but not transcendent and not one to lead a championship team IMO.  KD can win you a title today, tomorrow, and the next day.  

if he is playing with Steph and the Warriors wagon he can but every opportunity outside of that he has not lead a team to a championship…Durant is a phenomenal player but no way do I want to give up a 24 year old Tatum for a 34 year old Durant…no need for that…C’s just added Brogdon and Galinari to a team that got to the finals…let’s see what those additions do this team before making a big time move like adding Durant.

 

[Capella]

C’s just added Brogdon and Galinari to a team that got to the finals

…because Middleton didn’t play in round 2. 

 

[Capella]

Middleton plays in round 2 and the Celtics lose in 5 or 6 and are probably making this KD trade. Banking off what happened in a fluky playoff run and expecting that again is bad process. 

 

[the moops]

I just don't think this is a slam dunk in either way. If I had my choice of Durant or Tatum for the next 2 years? I absolutely choose Durant. Any longer than that is where it gets tricky. Tatum is just so young and doesn't (at least not yet) have the Durant mindset of leaving his team on a whim because he likes his weird buddy Kyrie too much.