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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (4 Viewers)

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…because Middleton didn’t play in round 2. 
Good thing Robert Williams was 100% as well…obviously you don’t like the C’s but they are a very good young team that isn’t going anywhere…between Tatum, Brown and Willians you have three players that are not done improving…I would not trade places long term with any team in the NBA with how they are currently built.

 
Middleton plays in round 2 and the Celtics lose in 5 or 6 and are probably making this KD trade. Banking off what happened in a fluky playoff run and expecting that again is bad process. 
Nothing fluky about it. You play who you play. Nearly every team that makes the finals has some sort of injury luck along the way

 
Middleton plays in round 2 and the Celtics lose in 5 or 6 and are probably making this KD trade. Banking off what happened in a fluky playoff run and expecting that again is bad process. 
I am am so glad you are not the Celtic’s GM making fantasy moves.

 
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Good thing Robert Williams was 100% as well…obviously you don’t like the C’s but they are a very good young team that isn’t going anywhere…between Tatum, Brown and Willians you have three players that are not done improving…I would not trade places long term with any team in the NBA with how they are currently built.
I don’t care about the Celtics at all, they’ve won 1 title in like 37 years so they’re about as important right now as the Mavericks. Mainly because they won’t actually make the cutthroat moves necessary to take them over the final step and just rely on previous results to determine future outcomes. 

 
I just don't think this is a slam dunk in either way. If I had my choice of Durant or Tatum for the next 2 years? I absolutely choose Durant. Any longer than that is where it gets tricky. Tatum is just so young and doesn't (at least not yet) have the Durant mindset of leaving his team on a whim because he likes his weird buddy Kyrie too much.
Agreed…some people are judging Tatum like he is 30 years old…there is a long list of stars who had some disappointments on the big stage before getting over the top…let’s see how he does the next few years before we hit the panic button…the C’s should be just hitting their prime, no need to make a dramatic move like this for short term gain until we see what Tatum turns into.

 
I don’t care about the Celtics at all, they’ve won 1 title in like 37 years so they’re about as important right now as the Mavericks. Mainly because they won’t actually make the cutthroat moves necessary to take them over the final step and just rely on previous results to determine future outcomes. 
You don’t know much about them…they have signed Horford, Hayward and Kemba as free agents and traded for Kyrie (and Brogdon but that is obviously not nearly as big)…not many teams can say they have made that many big moves the past 5 years…it appears they have finally figured it out by being patient with Tatum, Brown, Williams and a few others instead of making foolish short term moves just to please the off-season  talk radio crowd.

 
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Nothing fluky about it. You play who you play. Nearly every team that makes the finals has some sort of injury luck along the way
They earned it, but it was fluky as expecting the second-best player on the defending champs to miss the whole playoffs probably won’t happen again. They’re not better than Milwaukee going into next season. 

 
They earned it, but it was fluky as expecting the second-best player on the defending champs to miss the whole playoffs probably won’t happen again. They’re not better than Milwaukee going into next season. 
Jrue Holiday kindly tells you to #### off

 
Tatum has played in 252 games the past 3 seasons. Durant has played in 106. Sure, KD probably could rise above adversity 2 or 3 games in a post season run and win those games on his own. Tatum hasn’t done that as much yet. But he won the elimination game on the road in MIL and scored what, 46 points? He’s improved his traditional offensive stats every season he’s been in the league and has improved by leaps and bounds defensively. It’s not Tatum’s fault his team plays defense. He was first team All NBA this season.

If it’s a trade involving Tatum, other players, and a bunch of picks for KD, no way that makes the Celtics a better team in the short term or the long term. And if it’s Tatum for KD straight up, who knows how many games they could get out of Durant. I think JT will continue to get better, so I don’t see the C’s doing better with KD than with Tatum. 

Put differently, if KD were on the Celtics with Tatum on the Nets and Durant played the same in the first playoff series this year (except while on Boston), I don’t think the Celtics would have gotten out of the first round this year. 

 
Cowardly organizations don't trade the # 1 pick in the draft, cycle through the likes of Kyrie and Hayward, or go well into the tax for the forseeable future

 
Put differently, if KD were on the Celtics with Tatum on the Nets and Durant played the same in the first playoff series this year (except while on Boston), I don’t think the Celtics would have gotten out of the first round this year. 
Wat?

 
Boston fans trumping up the same advanced stats that had their team as 83% to win the finals is kinda silly. Some stats still need work, especially when looking at individual defense in a team environment where a guy is surrounded by superior rim protectors and better perimeter defenders than what KD has.
 

I doubt there is anybody in the nba outside of Boston who would take Tatum over KD, especially given how bad he was in the finals. 
 

KD is a guy who can win you a title. Tatum is a guy who can help the guy like KD win a title. 
He's 24. Do you always talk like 24 yo's are at the end of their development cycle?

FTR, I know you're a big LeBron Stan, he may be the only 24 yo player idk...maybe ever you could SEMI-reasonably put the expectation of a championship on his back. I wouldn't reasonably put that expectation on anybody else at that age.

 
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Trade Durant for Tatum straight up this year and the Celtics are in the same place, losing the finals to the Warriors. 

Sorry, but the Nets have to lower the asking price. They can't take all your core players plus all your picks. 

 
Replay the first playoff series this year, but with Tatum on Brooklyn and KD on Boston. Have Tatum play like he did for the Celtics and have KD play like he did for the Nets. Nets likely win the series. 
Not a chance. Tatum doesn't swing that series 4 games. 

 
Replay the first playoff series this year, but with Tatum on Brooklyn and KD on Boston. Have Tatum play like he did for the Celtics and have KD play like he did for the Nets. Nets likely win the series. 
I think not trading a 24 year old Tatum for a 34 year old Durant is perfectly reasonable for the Celtics, but this is a bonkers take.

 
I think KD > Tatum but that package is too much, IMO.  I think you do have to factor in age and injury.  Also, that’s a trade a team like Atlanta should consider- win now at all cost because you’ve never won ####.  Why would Boston risk 10-12 years of Tatum for 2-3 of KD?  To maybe win one more?

ETA - and the other players.  If the trade was straight up then I’d think long and hard about pulling the trigger.  Durant isn’t the physical specimen LeBron is - he’s been hurt and I could see him maybe having only 2-3 elite seasons left

 
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We did just see Jayson Tatum completely outplay Kevin Durant in a playoff series. It's not bonkers in any way to want a 24 year old Tatum over a 34 year old Durant considering next year isn't the last season of the NBA

 
Also, that’s a trade a team like Atlanta should consider- win now at all cost because you’ve never won ####.  Why would Boston risk 10-12 years of Tatum for 2-3 of KD?  To maybe win one more?
Am I going crazy? Boston has won 1 title since like the Golden Girls came on the air. Who cares what they did 60 years ago. 

 
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Not a chance. Tatum doesn't swing that series 4 games. 
Flip flopping what each player scored (ie put Tatum on the Nets and Durant on the Celts but keep their point titles), the games would have ended up:

G1: BRK 122-107
G2: BOS 122-99
G3: BRK 136-86
G4: BOS 126-102

Who knows what would actually have happened, but IMO it would not have been anywhere near a BOS sweep and could have gone 6 or 7 games with each side have a chance to win the series. 

 
Flip flopping what each player scored (ie put Tatum on the Nets and Durant on the Celts but keep their point titles), the games would have ended up:

G1: BRK 122-107
G2: BOS 122-99
G3: BRK 136-86
G4: BOS 126-102

Who knows what would actually have happened, but IMO it would not have been anywhere near a BOS sweep and could have gone 6 or 7 games with each side have a chance to win the series. 


Yeah, that isn't how it works. Part of the reason Durant struggled so much was because of the Boston defense as a team. To think that Tatum wouldn't have had issues is not realistic. Durant probably would have played better against a much weaker Brooklyn defense. 

Pretty sure that series ends in 4 or 5 games either way. 

 
We did just see Jayson Tatum completely outplay Kevin Durant in a playoff series. It's not bonkers in any way to want a 24 year old Tatum over a 34 year old Durant considering next year isn't the last season of the NBA
the Celtics outplayed the Nets

the Nets who were Durant and .... a bunch of warm bodies. stats are great and all but it wasn't Durant v Tatum 1:1. 

 
I wouldn't trade Tatum straight up for Durant. 

Next year Durant is most likely better than Tatum. 

In 2024 Durant will probably be better than Tatum. 

By 2025 I would bet Tatum is better than Durant. 

Plus the Celtics are already title contenders. There is no need to blow it up the roster and make a bold move to go for it. This isn't like the Raptors with Kawhi. 

 
I mean yea they were great in Jim Crow period NBA but they haven’t done a lot lately. 
Didn’t they even win a title with KG and Pierce?  Other than the Lakers the last team that needs to mortgage the next 10 years to possibly win another title is Boston.  I already said if it was straight up I’d think hard about it and probably do it but that package basically means you HAVE to win with Durant and hope he doesn’t get hurt.  Neither are guaranteed.

 
Am I going crazy? Boston has won 1 title since like the Golden Girls came on the air. Who cares what they did 60 years ago. 
Only the Celtics and the Lakers.
And as a L.A. homer, I wish the current Laker leadership ran their organization more like the Celtics. Instead of swinging for the fences and/or striking out in embarrassing fashion. But the results are the results; you're either a champion or nobody remembers what you did that year. 

 
More trade scenarios are fun:

Any interest in KD for Simons, Shaeden Sharpe, and like 4 future firsts or w/e?

I know Simons just resigned so they'd have to wait until a certain date, I have no idea what else they'd have to do to make the money work, please don't shoot me.

 
More trade scenarios are fun:

Any interest in KD for Simons, Shaeden Sharpe, and like 4 future firsts or w/e?

I know Simons just resigned so they'd have to wait until a certain date, I have no idea what else they'd have to do to make the money work, please don't shoot me.


I love this idea for Portland. Although that stupid rookie extension might not work with Simons going to Brooklyn with Simmons still there, but I am not sure because I hate and don't understand the rule. 

 
Not that anybody cares--I would not trade Tatum for KD right now. However--I will say this.   I do think that if Durant was on the Celtics in place of Tatum in the finals--that Boston wins that series.   Wiggins is a solid defender--but no way do I see him rendering KD a negative asset on the court for 2-3 of those games.  Tatum imo had a wonderful playoff run until the finals when his magic ran out. 

With that said--I wouldn't mind seeing the celtics trade for a guy like Durant if they could keep Tatum while doing so.   The Celtics seem to be stuck in this cycle of being really good--but just not "title" good.  If they could somehow land Durant in a deal centered around Jaylen Brown--I think it would make sense.  Tatum, Durant, Brogdon, Robert Williams, Horford..etc.   That's legit title caliber imo. 

Another trade that I might consider (and i mentioned it before)--is New Orleans trading for KD.  My first instinct was something centered around Ingram--but in reality---a trade centered around Zion might make more sense.  Even with Zion apparently slimmed down--he still has a history of leg/foot issues-and he will still rely on explosiveness.  I'm not sure I just trust his longevity even now.  I do think that Ingrams longevity is easier to trust.   If I look at a roster that has Mccollum, Durant, Ingram, Jonas, Herb Jones, a healthy Kira Lewis, trey murphy, jaxson hayes..thats pretty legit.  I dont see New Orleans doing a deal around Zion--but I do think that it would give them a good chance at a title. 

 
What metrics are you using to say this? I mean, it should be a debate, shouldn't it? I don't see any reason to say KD is MUCH better than Tatum or that how KD is playing now is a level Tatum will never reach.

PER doesn't seem to like Tatum all that much. But 538 Raptor has Tatum as a significantly better player this past year. B-ref VORP has Tatum as better. DARKO, LEBRON both have Tatum as better. NBA real +/- has Tatum as better. He outplayed Durant in their head to head playoff matchup.

I think people really, really underestimate how good on defense Tatum is. Durant used to be an excellent defender. He is no longer and grades out as fairly pedestrian on that end.

I know one metric is not a great way to look at players, but collectively they paint a pretty picture of Tatum. In fact RAPTOR has Tatum in 19/20 and 21/22 as better than anything Durant has done over the 5 years Tatum as been in the league. Same goes for RPM (Tatum having two better years in those same years than anything Durant has done in that same time frame).

This feels weird for me to say. I wouldn't have called myself a Tatum skeptic, but I was always leaning more towards him being better fit as 2nd best on a team. But what he has turned himself into at the age of 24 is quite remarkable. 
Basketball isn't played by computers, nerd. 

 
Wolves Summer League Roster has got to be the worst of all-time.

PLAYER#POSHEIGHTWEIGHTBIRTHDATEAGEEXPSCHOOL

Josh Minott7F6-8197 lbsJAN 25, 200220RMemphis

Kevon Harris10G6-6216 lbsJUN 24, 199725RStephen F. Austin

Matt Lewis14G6-5200 lbsDEC 21, 199823RJames Madison

Wendell Moore Jr.15F6-5213 lbsSEP 18, 200120RDuke

Brian Bowen II17F6-7199 lbsOCT 02, 1998232La Lumiere H.S.

Matteo Spagnolo18G6-4196 lbsJAN 10, 200319RVanoli Cremona (Italy)

Phillip Wheeler20F6-8185 lbsAPR 23, 200220RQuebradillas (Puerto Rico)

Jordan Tucker22F6-7210 lbsAPR 03, 199824RButler

Kahlil Whitney23F6-6210 lbsJAN 08, 200121RKentucky

Terrell Brown Jr.24G6-3185 lbsAPR 23, 199824RWashington

Jacob Giyard25G5-9160 lbsJUL 14, 199823RRichmond

Deonte Burton30F6-4240 lbsJAN 31, 1994282Iowa State

David McCormack33F6-10250 lbsJUL 02, 199923RKansas

Marial Shayok35F6-6206 lbsJUL 26, 1995261Iowa State

George Conditt IV44F6-10245 lbsAUG 22, 200021RIowa State

Melvin Frazier55G6-5215 lbsAUG 30, 1996253Tulane

 
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