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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (2 Viewers)

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Boston said:
The first one I think of is Iverson and Philly in a losing effort….you touched on Olajuwon…old school I would think Rick Barry with the Warriors was as close as you get to one guy winning it….Walton with Portland but that was an excellent “team”…Dirk with the Mavs is probably the closet in recent history as far as winning it.
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Barry had another HOFer in the starting five with a young Jamaal Wilkes, but statistically Barry was carrying a huge load for the '75 Warriors. Pretty good call.

That 2001 Philly team was one that came to mind for me, too. Similar to Barry's Warriors -- Iverson had a still-effective HOFer Dikembe Mutumbo as a 12-12 guy that season, but that was pretty much it. They had the shell of Toni Kukoc for about half a season -- the team's third HOF player.

Walton was obviously the best overall player on the 1977 Blazers, but he wasn't even their leading scorer. That was Maurice Lucas, a 5x All-Star who to my surprise is not in the HOF.

Dirk with the 2011 Mavs is a good call, as well. Jason Kidd was a HOFer, yes, but he was 37 and could no longer score. After that, you had a decent Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler ... so, yeah.

nysfl2 might actually have the winner naming LeBron with the otherwise-hapless 2006 Cavaliers. Larry Hughes was easily the #2 on that squad. Like Barry, James led his squad in points, assists, and steals from the SF slot.
 

 
Sonics lone championship team had what, Dennis Johnson?

Sikma, Gus Williams, Freddy Brown, Lonnie Shelton

They almost had 2 in a row with mostly the same cast.

 
Ivey had 11 points and 2 assists in 5 minutes and then twisted his ankle.  Hopefully this isn't serious.

Another good Piston note is Stewart has been working on his 3 point shot and went 3 for 4 in the first game and 2 for 5 yesterday. He could be a really nice role player and space the floor well if he can shoot 35+ percent from 3. 

 
Capella said:
Did I just read that Dame is going to get 60M a year? Why isn’t that what everybody is talking about? For 35 wins?
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You sure do love to pick random win numbers and apply them to teams. First it was BOS will only win 48 and be a disappointment - except they have bested that number 4/5 years since Tatum is in the league. Now it is POR and 38 wins. A number they have  beaten 7 out of Dame's 10 years.

:hophead:

 
identikit said:
Sonics lone championship team had what, Dennis Johnson?

Sikma, Gus Williams, Freddy Brown, Lonnie Shelton

They almost had 2 in a row with mostly the same cast.
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That one is different than what the question is because it doesn't involve one star carrying most of the load...that team was kind of like the Pistons team with Hamilton in that it was more about the team as a whole than one or two stars.

 
the moops said:
You sure do love to pick random win numbers and apply them to teams. First it was BOS will only win 48 and be a disappointment - except they have bested that number 4/5 years since Tatum is in the league. Now it is POR and 38 wins. A number they have  beaten 7 out of Dame's 10 years.

:hophead:
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Yes we should definitely focus on what the 2015 Portland Trail Blazers did while thinking about what the 2026 Portland Trail Blazers will do with a 37 year old Dame eating up half the cap and no CJ McCollum. Great stuff man. 
 

You love looking at previous results and thinking that will be what the future holds. Doesn’t work that way. :hophead:  

 
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The thing about the Dame extension to me is it seems like such an unnecessary risk for the team.

Perhaps Dame’s position was give me extension and improve the team or I’ll demand a trade. If that’s the case, I’d trade him and rebuild. (Actually I think they should have done that regardless.) 

If that wasn’t Dame’s position, why take that risk? Let things play out for at least another year.

 
Boston said:
That one is different than what the question is because it doesn't involve one star carrying most of the load...that team was kind of like the Pistons team with Hamilton in that it was more about the team as a whole than one or two stars.
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A true team, yes

 
Capella said:
Yes we should definitely focus on what the 2015 Portland Trail Blazers did while thinking about what the 2026 Portland Trail Blazers will do with a 37 year old Dame eating up half the cap and no CJ McCollum. Great stuff man. 
 

You love looking at previous results and thinking that will be what the future holds. Doesn’t work that way. :hophead:  
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To be fair the cap will go up. Still will be a bad deal unless Portland some how gets a title out of it. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
To be fair the cap will go up. Still will be a bad deal unless Portland some how gets a title out of it. 
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Tbh I think it’s fine for Portland I guess. It’s just crazy money for a player who won’t be as good by then. They aren’t winning anything and can’t get free agents. What else are they going to do? I guess they could try their luck in the lottery if they had dumped him. 

 
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Juxtatarot said:
The thing about the Dame extension to me is it seems like such an unnecessary risk for the team.

Perhaps Dame’s position was give me extension and improve the team or I’ll demand a trade. If that’s the case, I’d trade him and rebuild. (Actually I think they should have done that regardless.) 

If that wasn’t Dame’s position, why take that risk? Let things play out for at least another year.
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If last year's downturn wasn't a blip (injury related or whatever) then that's going to be a worse contract than Beal's.

 
Think they should have picked either Simons or Lillard. Games don't compliment one another IMO. Worst thing to be is a middling franchise lead by vets. See Utah.

Definitely would have taken Simons + boatload of picks from a Dame deal before signing to Dame to extension. Days of competing with Dame IMO are over. That franchise hasn't been short on talent over the last few years. 

I thought the time to look at moving on from Dame dates as far back as him and CJ getting a absolutely worked over in the playoffs by Jrue and Playoff Rondo a few years ago by the Pellies

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Think they should have picked either Simons or Lillard. Games don't compliment one another IMO. Worst thing to be is a middling franchise lead by vets. See Utah.

Definitely would have taken Simons + boatload of picks from a Dame deal before signing to Dame to extension. Days of competing with Dame IMO are over. That franchise hasn't been short on talent over the last few years. 

I thought the time to look at moving on from Dame dates as far back as him and CJ getting a absolutely worked over in the playoffs by Jrue and Playoff Rondo a few years ago by the Pellies
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Now they should trade Simons, Sharpe and picks and just go all in. Try for Durant and if that doesn't work there has to be another unhappy star that they can go get. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Now they should trade Simons, Sharpe and picks and just go all in. Try for Durant and if that doesn't work there has to be another unhappy star that they can go get. 
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Yeah they have no choice now :lol:  

I think it'd take a huge leap of faith for another franchise to value Simons at $25mil/yr. Very good scorer but I'd question if accepting him as a centerpiece for a superstar (along with his new deal) is prudent.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Yeah they have no choice now :lol:  

I think it'd take a huge leap of faith for another franchise to value Simons at $25mil/yr. Very good scorer but I'd question if accepting him as a centerpiece for a superstar (along with his new deal) is prudent.
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Obviously I am not the GM of the Nets, but if I was and Portland came to me with Simons, Sharpe and like 3 unprotected firsts I am doing it even if I don't like Simons. I would then flip Simons for more assets. 

 
Doug B said:
This is an interesting thread to pull:

In NBA history, what has been the furthest one guy "doing it alone" has gotten a team?

I guess another way to look at it is to look at single-star-driven title teams, losing Finals teams, and maybe even NBA Final Four teams and see which one had the weakest second-best player.

First thought was the 2006 Pistons with Ben Wallace, Billups, and Rip Hamilton -- but that wasn't really Wallace carrying the team on his back.

Second thought -- and IMHO, the leader in the clubhouse -- were the mid-90s Rockets teams with Olajuwon. After Hakeem ... who was #2? Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell? Robert Horry is more a trivia answer than anything. 1994 MVP Olajuwon was the team's only All-Star and only All-NBA selection.
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Pistons were really a team affair.

Raptors with Kawhi could qualify, although they needed a lot of injuries to make it work.

 
Since around 2000 I would say only 5 times have teams made it to the finals as mostly a one man team. 

76ers with Iverson 

Cavs in 07? With LeBron

Mavs with Dirk in 06 and 11

Cavs in 18? With LeBron

 
Navin Johnson said:
fyi...u17 wc final 

USA vs Spain

USA u17's have never been beaten.

https://youtu.be/YznDDrC0uao
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Team USA trails first 27 minutes.  Ties it at 48 and then gets an unsportsmanlike foul called after a weak elbow is thrown in a scrum as the shot clock expires.  Spain converts 1 of 2 FTs to go up 1 but turns it over on the ensuing possession to start a 12-0 run for Team USA to close the third.

 
dunfee555 said:
As a Cavs fan, didn't love the selection of Agbaji. An older prospect who didn't really dominate until their senior season is always a red flag for me. And size-wise, he's more a shooting guard than a small forward, which is what they desperately need. He's going to be competing for time with Levert, Sexton, and Okoro or have to play with two of those guys as an undersized 3. 

Since this is hopefully their last trip into the lottery for awhile, I was hoping they'd take a bigger swing and draft a legitimate small forward sized guy that has some upside, like Tari Eason. But I hope I'm wrong and he's better than I expect.
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Ochai Agbaji first summer league game

 
Windy saying Tatum pushing Celtics front office for a Mitchell trade?

I hope he doesn't think that's happening while still keeping both JB & Rob.

 
ShamrockPride said:
Windy saying Tatum pushing Celtics front office for a Mitchell trade?

I hope he doesn't think that's happening while still keeping both JB & Rob.
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It could happen. If Utah trades Mitchell they don't want anyone making any money or will be getting paid soon. They are going full tank for 2 or 3 years. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
It could happen. If Utah trades Mitchell they don't want anyone making any money or will be getting paid soon. They are going full tank for 2 or 3 years. 
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BOS has to send $24M and change if they trade for Mitchell

edit---according to the trade machine they gotta send over 30M back

 
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Navin Johnson said:
BOS has to send $24M and change if they trade for Mitchell

edit---according to the trade machine they gotta send over 30M back
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I just messed around with it and they can't do it unless they include Tatum, Brown, Horford, Brogdon (who I don't think is tradeable), Smart, or Robert Williams. 

Or using a 3rd team.

 
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Frostillicus said:
I just messed around with it and they can't do it unless they include Tatum, Brown, Horford, Brogdon (who I don't think is tradeable), Smart, or Robert Williams. 

Or using a 3rd team.
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It looks like the Celtics have a 17 million dollar trade exception as well. I don't know how that factors in. 

 
Frostillicus said:
I just messed around with it and they can't do it unless they include Tatum, Brown, Horford, Brogdon (who I don't think is tradeable), Smart, or Robert Williams. 

Or using a 3rd team.
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I don't think Utah is just giving him away either. They are going ng to make it sting, even if just a little, for whoever the trade partner is, although with Ainge there... 

 
I realize Durant may not want to go to Utah, but they'd be a very interesting trade partner for the Nets. Conley and Bogdanovic get you there salary wise and Bogdanovic is a $20M expiring (Conley has 2 years at $23M per). They've got all those picks from the Gobert trade and could kick in Nickiel Alexander-Walker at 1 year/$5M which still works with the money. Or the Jazz have Beverley at $13M for 1 year, Beasley at 2 years at $15 per, and Clarkson at 2 years $13M if that works better for the Nets. 

They might be able to put the best package together to get KD without gutting the team. As long as they hold on to either Conley or Beverley they could rollout:

PG: Conley or Beverley

SG: Mitchell

SF: Beasley or Rudy Gay (2 years at $5 per)

PF: Durant

C Whiteside/Kessler/Azubuike

It's pretty close to their team last year except instead of Gobert they have KD. And they have more assets to use to upgrade center.  Mitchell and Durant together give you a couple of potential All-NBA guys if Donovan bounces back and KD is healthy. 

Nets get expirings and a bunch of picks. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Obviously I am not the GM of the Nets, but if I was and Portland came to me with Simons, Sharpe and like 3 unprotected firsts I am doing it even if I don't like Simons. I would then flip Simons for more assets. 
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That Simons signing made no sense to me so I'm not sure how many other teams consider that contract an asset but I agree with the rest. 

When people throw around these multiple first rounders in these trades I think they should realize all first rounders are not the same. For instance if POR or GS throw in a young asset.... those first rounders down the line are probably going to be worth a lot more than a Celtic first rounder because Boston is a younger team. Once Curry/Lillard are just leadership role players(or retire) in a couple of years those first rounders could be worth a ton. For that matter in 18 months if Durant finds himself in a non-title-favorite situation he'll be demanding a trade away from these teams anyway.

Portland is never going to get a Durant to sign there as a FA. They SHOULD be willing to part with a ton of first rounders(including Sharpe) but they may fall victim to being a small market, one team town. In those towns all you need to do is make the playoffs every year and massage the lineup JUST ENOUGH to make the local fan base excited. IMO that's why they overpaid Lillard, because with a healthy Lillard they make the playoffs every year. 

 
The Man With No Name said:
Ochai Agbaji first summer league game
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I did love seeing him take and make some threes, the Cavs definitely need that. Heard him compared to Danny Green over the weekend and that does seem like an apt comparison. Doesn't have the size to guard the bigger wings and don't really see any other skill that stands out besides the shooting. Still don't see the upside there to be more than a backup/spot starting shooting guard and those guys are pretty easy to find. 

 
the moops said:
yea, wonder if Turner is going back.

I like it for Indy. I am not the biggest Ayton fan, but a Halliburton/Ayton core is a good start
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Yea sounds like it will be Turner if it happens. Guess I don’t understand it for PHX. I get maybe you’d be overpaying the guy but it downgrades your title chances. 

 
Capella said:
Yea sounds like it will be Turner if it happens. Guess I don’t understand it for PHX. I get maybe you’d be overpaying the guy but it downgrades your title chances. 
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Perhaps the relationship between Ayton and the Suns has been damaged beyond repair.

 
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