2022 Philadelphia Eagles - Leave Gannon in Arizona and let’s run through the NFC again in 2023. (9 Viewers)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

Your words:

A - this is exactly what I said in 2012 and everybody said I was a hater and I was wrong. if they keep running that young man he’s going to get hurt.

Can he developed into a pass first guy before that happens is the question.

Your thesis for why you think the team can't succeed: Hurts runs too much, is going to get hurt, and you question if he can develop into a passing QB before that happens.

Any "objective observer" can see he's already developed into a high-level passing QB and that his running didn't prohibit that.

More of your words:

All because of his threat to run. He is an GREAT runner. Hes fast, agile, and tough as nails. Its a lot easier to find open guys

Your thesis: He only is a good passer because he is a good runner.

For some reason, you think a quality that someone has that is better than what most others have should detract from him having success.

I'll translate into Cowboys language and maybe you'll realize where we are coming from: Parsons is only good because of his speed, quickness and agility. 9 of his 12 sacks have come via speed rush this year and his bull rush only works because Olinemen have to respect his speed. But until he develops a strong bull rush that can over-power someone, he's not going to do anything in the playoffs when teams down block more. It's also going to wear out his hamstrings by playing with his ears pinned back all the time. Not being a hater, just being honest that he's not really a true elite player unless he meets my idea of a stud player and the required skill sets said player must have.

C'mon, maybe you're too classy to use the term "hater" but you have to admit that would be the stance of someone that just needs to find a way to knock a very good player having success down a peg or two.

Never said he runs too much. I said if he keeps running the way he currently does, with power and physicality, hes going to get hurt. Thats crazy to you?

100% his passing success is directly correlated to his running. That also not crazy.

Any "objective observer" can see he's already developed into a high-level passing QB and that his running didn't prohibit that.

Ok, I think were too far apart. Hurts has REALLY improved his mechanics and I credited him for working on that in the offseason but if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

I'm far from classy, I just use words that are appropriately defined. Calling somebody a hater because you disagree is lazy not accurate. I don't hate Hurts. I can praise him a million areas but If I dont agree with you then Im a "hater".

The Parsons stuff was a weird tangent where you contradicted what it was you were attempting to convey. If you want to talk about Parsons, lets do that in the Parsons thread. He has his own warts and I by no means think hes a perfect player or anything.

So long story short (too late!), I have stated all of Hurts' positives. Hes a tough physical runner, he has a strong arm, he has REALLY worked on his mechanics over last summer and obviously studies hard. He's having a phenomenal season and great start to an already good college pedigree.

 

[The Noid]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

 

[Snotbubbles]

The only QB I see that's comparable to Hurts is Lamar Jackson, who is 1-3 in playoff games and all 4 of those games came before his 24th birthday. For contrast, Payton Manning didn't win a playoff game till his 6th year when he was 27, going 0-3 to start his career.

I remember the buzz about him was that he couldn't win a playoff game. Good thing no one gave up on Payton.

Brees didn't win a playoff game until he was 27.
Eli didn't win one until he was 26.

We won a Superbowl with Nick Foles. Any given Sunday.

I'm not going to call these guys failures because of the playoffs. Well...Dak Prescott is, but I'll make exceptions for Cowboy players.

 

[Snotbubbles]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

Now youre changing your words. You said

Any "objective observer" can see he's already developed into a high-level passing QB and that his running didn't prohibit that.

In this last post you conveniently added "his current performance this season"

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I assume we can only use stats from this season, right? OK.... I got some work to get to but lets see if I cant find a few holes for the stat nerds.

 

[Amused to Death]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

While looking for some stats (such as Aaron Rodgers having less impressive stats than Hurts so clearly Rodgers sucks in comparison), I found this article.

I did not know Hurts is buddy buddy with the Mannings. I liked this part too: "A huge part of getting better is being able to watch people, great people of the past, see their techniques, see how they did it," Sirianni said. "One thing that I like to do is like, 'Hey, Philip, can you Zoom in with us and just talk to Jalen about how you saw this play? ... We know what we taught on this play, but just give him a little more insight.'"

 

[need2know]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

 

[The Noid]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

Now youre changing your words. You said

Any "objective observer" can see he's already developed into a high-level passing QB and that his running didn't prohibit that.

In this last post you conveniently added "his current performance this season"

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I assume we can only use stats from this season, right? OK.... I got some work to get to but lets see if I cant find a few holes for the stat nerds.

Not changing any words. His performance this year = who he is. If you want to say it's a mirage and he can't do it year after year, say that. But you can't say you need to see him "develop" into something he already is right now, at this point in time, when we are discussing him. If you need to see it sustained, fair enough, but saying he isn't right now BECAUSE you don't think he will sustain it is what makes you come off as dumping on him.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner. And true high-level passers can do it without also being good at running.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

 

[Amused to Death]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

 

[DJackson10]

Wondering if the Rams are regretting "f The Picks"? I know they got a SB out of it but Stafford is back to unreliable injured all the time again, Allen Robinson looks like a JAG, they got rid of a RB, Kupp on IR Donald now hurt. Not looking good for them at all. Low on Picks and no cap room.

Meanwhile DET looks solid and competitive in games this year and took Buff to the limit on Turkey day. Tons of picks now to get some solid depth and impact players in the draft and I think they got a ton of cap room too.

This is a cautionary tale for those who were all about trade our first rounders for X player. They got a SB but end game after the SB it's been a disaster for them

 

[need2know]

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

Dang man now you hating on Dave Chappelle. You on fire

 

[DJackson10]

We'd have to franchise tag him for year 5 if we want to keep him.

Just things to keep an eye on and remember though.

Does this mean you're starting to come around?

Not at all I don't think Hurts will have a season like this again. I see Prescott and Hurts as similar players. Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs. I'm more so saying the Eagles don't have the luxury a MIA and others do with a QB they drafted in the 1st and having a 5th year option. If Hou came to us during the draft and wanted to say swap first rounders and give up something else to take Hurts I'd take that in a heartbeat. Hurts gets to go home HOU maybe pays him outrageous money and hopes he's that good again. Depending who's there QB wise to draft take that guy let Gardner and him duke it out for the starting spot. I think the team around overall is good enough for the playoffs and contend for that already no matter who's back there.

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again. Lurie/Howie and company don't want to go through that again so it'll be a swift transition if he's not the guy in terms of coming and going.

Hurts has been in ONE playoff game. Feel like maybe he should get a few more tries before we go with "Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs", no? John Elway, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, on and on lost their first playoff game. Peyton Manning lost his first THREE playoff games.

Aaron Rodgers first playoff game threw for 4 TDs and over 4OO yds in the air. He had 1 INT but his defense let him down. Elway can't even comment I wasn't born yet so I'm not going to talk about something I didn't even see, Peyton's team was also 13-3 with a bye and lost, Brees over 3OO yds and 2 TDs and a one INT. He put up solid numbers vs a stout Rex Ryan Jets team. Also all these guys are much better passers and completely different QBs then Hurts.

You should be looking at the Lamar Jackson's Kaepernicks, Wilsons. But everyone now is figuring out Wilson was just a good system QB with a good Defense and RB at the time behind a top 3 back in Marshawn Lynch. Was Wilson good at times? Absolutely but people forget the Seahawks won their SB before Wilson even threw his first TD pass that game. He also threw a costly pick on the final play. We can all blame Pete Carrol thats the easy thing but Wilson at the time had free reign and could've audible the play there he's just at fault there.

Hurts has everything needed around him right now. Great Oline, very good Run game and he has some really good skill players plus a very good defense. Shouldn't be any excuse he can't do well this time. However last year's playoff display was embarrassing. Like he didn't even belong on the field bad.

Kaepernick carried his team to playoff wins and a Super Bowl appearance if I recall...

Kaep was 4-2 in the playoffs including a SB appearance in 2013 (2012 season).

Thanks to a great defense and he was playing in a college gimmick offense people figured out. He had a great Offensive Line and Run game too. We saw what happened to KAEP when he lost all of that. Dude is also lucky Jenkins didn't press liable and defamation charges League asked Jenkins not to pursue them as they didn't want a huge mess on their hands despite multiple people with knowledge of the convo's legal wise saying Jenkins would win. NFL just want to let CK go off in the sun set didn't want the PR not that the league did anything wrong but there are people out there who'd have twisted things. CK was a terrible teammate and the team won in spite of him and absolute baby the owners coddled. Either way his final year teams were Teeing off on him daring him to throw. Buffalo Defenders said in Interviews they were laughing at him and wanted him to throw.

 

[Amused to Death]

Thanks to a great defense and he was playing in a college gimmick offense people figured out. He had a great Offensive Line and Run game too.

How many successful playoff teams had bad defenses, offensive lines and no running game? I mean, we are talking about the ultimate team sport.

 

[Deamon]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

@STEADYMOBBIN 22 You've actually been so much more objective, friendly, and a much better poster over the last couple years and are usually a nice change from other Dallas fans in here, but this stuff is pretty contrary to all of that.

1. @The Noid is one of the most knowledgeable and level headed fans I've seen on these boards. He'll give credit or criticism where it's due, and is bringing up a lot of stats and numbers that it seems you're just simply ignoring. I do hope you come around on that.

2. No one here is even saying that Hurts is the best QB in the league, but it seems like you and Djax are acting like we are worshiping the ground he walks on. In fact, listen to all the professionals, analysts, writers, etc out there, everyone is saying how great he is doing. Yes they're not all smart, but these people do this for a living so if there's such a unanimous thought on him, it might be worth listening to)

3. Not sure if you've followed along, but your defense of Djax is strange given how you seem to be a pretty observant poster lately. Every time Jalen had a great play (I'm sure even you will admit he's had some great plays, right?), his response is "wow what a blown coverage!". It's clear as day that no matter WHAT happens, he'll find an issue with Hurts. That's not 'blasting someone for his opinion".... that's being annoyed at someone who is so obsessed with being right that nothing in the world would change his mind. I know you're bright enough that you can at least see that, and understand where the criticism of his posts come from.

4. I don't love all the "well your qb sucks too" back and forth stuff that some fans are giving you about the Cowboys. Don't think that's really relevant. I think it just seems convenient that you're a Cowboys fan and one of 2 people who are voicing all these doubts/complaints/skeptical thoughts/etc about Hurts (and the other is well known for digging in as hard as he can). If you were a Steelers or Bengals fan, I doubt you'd be here posting pages of negative things about a 2nd round QB who is the MVP frontrunner and has his team at 10-1 (And no, please don't twist that as me/us thinking he is the best qb in the league or that vegas odds mean he's the best).

Hope you come around, you have in the past and it's been refreshing.

 

[DJackson10]

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again

There are 31 other teams in the league that are sold on Jalen Hurts and at least 20 that would sign him in a heartbeat if they were able to. Just for some perspective.

I highly doubt that. But hey they can have him if they want just give me a 1st rounder and they can have him and sign him to some ridiculous contract he won't live up too.

I'll take Hurts over a random 1st round pick any day at this point. Too many are busts.

Too many aren't put in the right situations. I would never as a team draft a Lamar or Malik Wilis on a Hou or CAR team. Lamar was in a great spot at the time because they had a run game, great defense and Offensive line. Its not just about the guys talent but many forget roster situation, team and coaching situations make a huge difference. I remember all of us going through this with the Wentz/DAK debate. I think many of us agreed DAK would've played better those first yrs under Pederson then others and Wentz may not have done as well in DAL. It's all about the player being in the right situation.

Talking to multiple people in the league and college the sense is way too many egos thinking they will be some innovative geniuses. Put themselves before anything else. That doesn't help the player the coach nor the team he's coaching. Lamar Jackson is a perfect example of what type of team should draft that type of player and when. Guys like Lamar are in their primes now. Fade off after 5-6 yrs. Its why BAL isn't paying him what he wants. They know better. I can't tell you how many times I talk to this one guy who was a Former OC/QB coach who gets irate with players being put in bad situations because of coaching ego's and in a wrong fit.

It's why a lot of people think Put Rodgers or Peyton in NE over Brady and they are probably winning just as Many titles. Brady was in a great situation. This isn't taking away his success though but he had an org who did everything they could to help them win. So many years for Peyton and Rodgers they did everything possible to win and their defense set them up to lose or a problem wasn't fixed personal wise. Brady had that in NE.

 

[Terpman22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

 

[DJackson10]

There are still some legit questions about Hurts accuracy and ability to go through his progressions but I have no doubt that his coaches and teammates love and trust him and that has to be a factor in evaluating him.

I missed this yesterday. I don't think you once anyone has seen me put out this in the bold negatively. However lets go a bit further. Your coaches and teammates could love you but if you aren't producing it on the field thats what matters. There's multiple teammates who absolutely hate Tom Brady. I've heard it all from Tom is a ****ing prick, Brady is an ******* but he got me a ring, Brady is that guy you can tolerate all his ******** and prima donna ******** when you are winning but if you got a guy like that when you are losing he's hard to stomach. A few guys from what I've heard were pretty upset with how he handled the whole Jimmy G situation. Thought it was just a bad situation that wasn't Jimmy's fault. They were glad Bill went out and put him somewhere he knew he'd trust someone with Jimmy In Kyle Shanahan. Players will play for coaches who do that.

It's like Lebron James to a certain extent same personality. I remember talking to St Joe's Jameer Nelson who I knew through a coworker of mine as he dated his cousin who worked with us and would see him around. Just saying things yeah Lebron can be a real ******* but guys will tolerate it when they are winning. When they lose it's a different story. Look at Lakers now for that example.

So yes the bolded is part of the evaluation but that can go both ways. Another example is Micheal Jordan. Similar personality teammates played for him because they knew they'd win with him.

 

[DJackson10]

We'd have to franchise tag him for year 5 if we want to keep him.

Just things to keep an eye on and remember though.

Does this mean you're starting to come around?

Not at all I don't think Hurts will have a season like this again. I see Prescott and Hurts as similar players. Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs. I'm more so saying the Eagles don't have the luxury a MIA and others do with a QB they drafted in the 1st and having a 5th year option. If Hou came to us during the draft and wanted to say swap first rounders and give up something else to take Hurts I'd take that in a heartbeat. Hurts gets to go home HOU maybe pays him outrageous money and hopes he's that good again. Depending who's there QB wise to draft take that guy let Gardner and him duke it out for the starting spot. I think the team around overall is good enough for the playoffs and contend for that already no matter who's back there.

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again. Lurie/Howie and company don't want to go through that again so it'll be a swift transition if he's not the guy in terms of coming and going.

You sir are a giant hater.

He’s not. He knows football. Once again, having a different opinion doesn’t make somebody a hater.

To me this looks almost exactly like the season RGIII had. Tons of RPO and crossing routes. The difference between Hurts and RGIII is Hurts is a lot more durable and coachable.

I am clearly biased so I’m sure you’re going to call me a hater after I say this but let me predict to you what’s going to happen when you get to the playoffs and please let me explain my reasoning why….

You guys are running a college offense. NFL teams aren’t used to seeing that week in and week out and because so few teams run what you guys are running, it’s hard to stop during the regular season.

When you get to the playoffs and it’s do or die, the defenses will change their normal scheme, coupled with tougher defensive talent and things will get significantly harder for this team to run that stuff.

Some people say these style offenses are the future, but if you know your history this is a 50 year old offense modified for the forward passing game.

As I said before though, what I underestimated most about Hurts is his drive to improve as a player. I’m very impressed by that aspect of his game. I do worry about him getting injured the way he runs.


ETA - this is exactly what I said in 2012 and everybody said I was a hater and I was wrong. if they keep running that young man he’s going to get hurt.

Can he developed into a pass first guy before that happens is the question.

FTR and with all that said I think you guys have the best team in the NFL this year.

Bingo I've been saying this for months now. Even brought up how Lamar Jackson looks great in Regular season never gets it done in post season. it's exactly this. Kaepernick is the same thing but I thought they had an easy playoff schedule and played a ton of teams who weren't great run defenses and we all know GB's history with Running/Mobile QBs.

 

[DJackson10]

We'd have to franchise tag him for year 5 if we want to keep him.

Just things to keep an eye on and remember though.

Does this mean you're starting to come around?

Not at all I don't think Hurts will have a season like this again. I see Prescott and Hurts as similar players. Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs. I'm more so saying the Eagles don't have the luxury a MIA and others do with a QB they drafted in the 1st and having a 5th year option. If Hou came to us during the draft and wanted to say swap first rounders and give up something else to take Hurts I'd take that in a heartbeat. Hurts gets to go home HOU maybe pays him outrageous money and hopes he's that good again. Depending who's there QB wise to draft take that guy let Gardner and him duke it out for the starting spot. I think the team around overall is good enough for the playoffs and contend for that already no matter who's back there.

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again. Lurie/Howie and company don't want to go through that again so it'll be a swift transition if he's not the guy in terms of coming and going.

You sir are a giant hater.

He’s not. He knows football. Once again, having a different opinion doesn’t make somebody a hater.

To me this looks almost exactly like the season RGIII had. Tons of RPO and crossing routes. The difference between Hurts and RGIII is Hurts is a lot more durable and coachable.

I am clearly biased so I’m sure you’re going to call me a hater after I say this but let me predict to you what’s going to happen when you get to the playoffs and please let me explain my reasoning why….

You guys are running a college offense. NFL teams aren’t used to seeing that week in and week out and because so few teams run what you guys are running, it’s hard to stop during the regular season.

When you get to the playoffs and it’s do or die, the defenses will change their normal scheme, coupled with tougher defensive talent and things will get significantly harder for this team to run that stuff.

Some people say these style offenses are the future, but if you know your history this is a 50 year old offense modified for the forward passing game.

As I said before though, what I underestimated most about Hurts is his drive to improve as a player. I’m very impressed by that aspect of his game. I do worry about him getting injured the way he runs.


ETA - this is exactly what I said in 2012 and everybody said I was a hater and I was wrong. if they keep running that young man he’s going to get hurt.

Can he developed into a pass first guy before that happens is the question.

FTR and with all that said I think you guys have the best team in the NFL this year.

so NFL teams dont try to play defense in the regular season. got it.

also yes it has elements of a college offense. but its really more of a hybrid offense. I guarantee you if they start really trying to stop the run or if hurts was having negative run plays they would go pass heavy. we have already seen it many times this season. he doesnt have to run to be effective.

He also hasn't been consistently effective throwing either. Take away his first read and he looks like a lost puppy out there and just takes off. Yes teams do this defensively in the playoffs. It's a one game elimination. Teams try to stop all aspects in the regular season. Good-great teams coached also don't run through their whole Off/DEF playbooks and save things for the playoffs. Why do you think teams let Lamar Jackson run wild in the regular season and then Stop him come playoff time? During the playoffs teams scheme differently and will scheme a defense that stops the best aspect. Same offensively with certain things.

I've had multiple coaches even admit this. **** Vermiel admitted years ago when I saw him with STL they schemed a totally different way to stop George and McNair in the SB. They implemented parts of the their actual defense into that but they had designed stuff to stop them.

 

[DJackson10]

To the unbiased, he already has developed into really good passing QB. Sure, you can be skeptical if that's something that carries over next year or the rest of his career vs. following in the massive regressive steps of Wentz' career, but to say he's not there this season is obtuse.

Don't think I haven't said he's done well this season. People seem upset with me for being skeptical this carries over rest of this year next year and rest of his career. Just don't see it. Hurts historically has been a streaky QB which is why I'm very skeptic.

 

[DJackson10]

We'd have to franchise tag him for year 5 if we want to keep him.

Just things to keep an eye on and remember though.

Does this mean you're starting to come around?

Not at all I don't think Hurts will have a season like this again. I see Prescott and Hurts as similar players. Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs. I'm more so saying the Eagles don't have the luxury a MIA and others do with a QB they drafted in the 1st and having a 5th year option. If Hou came to us during the draft and wanted to say swap first rounders and give up something else to take Hurts I'd take that in a heartbeat. Hurts gets to go home HOU maybe pays him outrageous money and hopes he's that good again. Depending who's there QB wise to draft take that guy let Gardner and him duke it out for the starting spot. I think the team around overall is good enough for the playoffs and contend for that already no matter who's back there.

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again. Lurie/Howie and company don't want to go through that again so it'll be a swift transition if he's not the guy in terms of coming and going.

You sir are a giant hater.

He’s not. He knows football. Once again, having a different opinion doesn’t make somebody a hater.

To me this looks almost exactly like the season RGIII had. Tons of RPO and crossing routes. The difference between Hurts and RGIII is Hurts is a lot more durable and coachable.

I am clearly biased so I’m sure you’re going to call me a hater after I say this but let me predict to you what’s going to happen when you get to the playoffs and please let me explain my reasoning why….

You guys are running a college offense. NFL teams aren’t used to seeing that week in and week out and because so few teams run what you guys are running, it’s hard to stop during the regular season.

When you get to the playoffs and it’s do or die, the defenses will change their normal scheme, coupled with tougher defensive talent and things will get significantly harder for this team to run that stuff.

Some people say these style offenses are the future, but if you know your history this is a 50 year old offense modified for the forward passing game.

As I said before though, what I underestimated most about Hurts is his drive to improve as a player. I’m very impressed by that aspect of his game. I do worry about him getting injured the way he runs.


ETA - this is exactly what I said in 2012 and everybody said I was a hater and I was wrong. if they keep running that young man he’s going to get hurt.

Can he developed into a pass first guy before that happens is the question.

FTR and with all that said I think you guys have the best team in the NFL this year.

Won't call you a hater. Just a guy with an admitted bias against Hurts recognized another one. If the NFL had the rules to protect the QB today 30 years ago, this evolution would have already been here - this style of QB and offense.

Disagree Cunningham was great when he was around because defenses were less athletic and discipline back then. Since then everyone has been Chasing their next Randall. Either it be Vick, RG3, CK, Lamar, Willis was a draft darling with some fans and media etc. Defenses are now faster and defenses adapt sooner then offenses. A lot of people are up to take the challenge and adapt more so then years ago. Guys like Vick, Lamar etc were always successful because of athleticism and arm strength. No one taught them proper mechanics how to read a defense etc. Jason Kelce was making pass pro calls and reading the defense for Vick because he had no idea how to do it. We aren't even talking an 8 yr Veteran Center here we're talking about A ROOKIE C. These guys only have so much of their prime already there already. Its why I said these guys need a perfect situation to succeed.

The one thing Hurts has for him over Vick, RG3, CK and even Lamar is willingness to be coached and want to get better. He might last a little longer or progress with that but it's not wrong for people to be skeptical of him.

 

[DJackson10]

The only QB I see that's comparable to Hurts is Lamar Jackson, who is 1-3 in playoff games and all 4 of those games came before his 24th birthday. For contrast, Payton Manning didn't win a playoff game till his 6th year when he was 27, going 0-3 to start his career.

I remember the buzz about him was that he couldn't win a playoff game. Good thing no one gave up on Payton.

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid. I'd praise Baltimore had they traded Lamar before last season for a bunch of draft capital and rebuild. After 2 years of KAEP I'd have no issue with SF trading him to the highest bidder either.

 

[The Noid]

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer.

So with stats that put him on the same level, and sometimes above, universally accepted elite passers, he's an imposter? What separates your blessing of an elite passing QB (Mahomes? Brady? Rodgers?) with comparable stats? If it's scheme, why isn't every capable passer just getting schemed into putting up those numbers? Does a QB have to overcome bad coaching or schemes in order to prove it? If it's longevity and consistency, that hasn't even played out yet to back it up. Just feels very arbitrary to say his performance, while equal in results to other elite passers, does not qualify him as elite.

The dude still has to the make the throws, place the ball, keep his timing, etc.

Wentz was an elite passer in 2017. He stinks now. Even if you had a crystal ball back then it would be nonsensical to have denied he was an elite passer during that run. You're really going out of your way to apply what you think the future holds for Hurts toward the assessment of his performance this year. It's the same sentiment a segment of our fans are contorting themselves into pretzels to keep dogging him in spite of the reality of his play.

We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

 

[Amused to Death]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

 

[DJackson10]

All because of his threat to run.

And Mahomes is a franchise QB because of his ability to improvise that other QBs don't have. And Brady is a franchise QB because of his ability to get the ball out quickly and accurately that other QBS don't have.

As I said in my edited post: using his skills and productivity as a rusher to discount his objectively stellar passing stats this season is just looking for an excuse to hate on the guy.

When you're a QB like Hurts who's know for a one read passer that's not discrediting him. He opens up throwing lanes because of his threat to run. It's no different then saying Deebo Samuel opens up more space because he's a threat to catch and rush the football. Hurts best asset is his legs. Same with McNabb. The min he refused to stop running he changed for the worse as a QB till had some WR's. Hurts has more of an ability to throw then a RB a little more consistently which is why he's a threat more so with his legs. I don't think any of what's being said is discounting him as a passer. Just says it makes him a bigger threat. Carson Wentz early on his wasn't just his ability to sling the ball around the field but his escapability and extend plays. After the concussion I think he physiologically lost it.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

@STEADYMOBBIN 22 You've actually been so much more objective, friendly, and a much better poster over the last couple years and are usually a nice change from other Dallas fans in here, but this stuff is pretty contrary to all of that.

1. @The Noid is one of the most knowledgeable and level headed fans I've seen on these boards. He'll give credit or criticism where it's due, and is bringing up a lot of stats and numbers that it seems you're just simply ignoring. I do hope you come around on that.

2. No one here is even saying that Hurts is the best QB in the league, but it seems like you and Djax are acting like we are worshiping the ground he walks on. In fact, listen to all the professionals, analysts, writers, etc out there, everyone is saying how great he is doing. Yes they're not all smart, but these people do this for a living so if there's such a unanimous thought on him, it might be worth listening to)

3. Not sure if you've followed along, but your defense of Djax is strange given how you seem to be a pretty observant poster lately. Every time Jalen had a great play (I'm sure even you will admit he's had some great plays, right?), his response is "wow what a blown coverage!". It's clear as day that no matter WHAT happens, he'll find an issue with Hurts. That's not 'blasting someone for his opinion".... that's being annoyed at someone who is so obsessed with being right that nothing in the world would change his mind. I know you're bright enough that you can at least see that, and understand where the criticism of his posts come from.

4. I don't love all the "well your qb sucks too" back and forth stuff that some fans are giving you about the Cowboys. Don't think that's really relevant. I think it just seems convenient that you're a Cowboys fan and one of 2 people who are voicing all these doubts/complaints/skeptical thoughts/etc about Hurts (and the other is well known for digging in as hard as he can). If you were a Steelers or Bengals fan, I doubt you'd be here posting pages of negative things about a 2nd round QB who is the MVP frontrunner and has his team at 10-1 (And no, please don't twist that as me/us thinking he is the best qb in the league or that vegas odds mean he's the best).

Hope you come around, you have in the past and it's been refreshing.

Appreciate the kind words. Ill address each by number:

1) I haven't ignored his numbers - I can find some to fit my narrative, (such as Hurts throwing the 3rd least amount of passes over 20 yards or if numbers mean everything, does this mean that Hurts is better than Rodgers since his number suck? Of course not.) Numbers dont mean everything but some people state them as if they're an end-all to the whole picture. Im not finished with that post yet.

2) Well if we arent allowed to be objective and can only say the positives and pretend there are no negatives, it does indeed seem like you guys are worshipping the ground he works on. Heaven forbid I try and offer constructive criticism of his skills Ill get labeled a hater. I think I have been incredibly complimentary of him while still providing honest takes on his talent. I am truly impressed by his game and willingness to become a better player. I think thats actually his most impressive trait, second only to his running ability.

3) I like DJax. Much like Hurts, he isnt perfect. He's incredibly judgmental, critical, stubborn and he hasn't become "self aware" as I like to call it but he is very smart, he has impeccable morals and I just think hes a good egg. I enjoy my interactions with him. I admit I have a soft spot for him so I am biased.

4) Agreed on the first part (about the anti cowboys/Prescott stuff not being relevant). I can understand why you would say that Im biased and maybe I am predisposed to be more critical of other teams in the division but you'll have to take my word for it, when the game isn't on, I couldn't care less about that stuff. I simply pay attention to the Skins, Giants and Eagles more on Sundays.


I come in this thread because Ive grown to like you guys. I love your passion. I like how active you guys are. The Cowboys thread is virtually nonexistent I just want to talk football and I want to discuss it with others who love the sport as I do or once did. I think now I just love the idea of the sport and how I would run things but thats another story.

The only guys Ive actually not had a down to earth conversation is that JetMaxx dude. Terman22 can be obnoxious, but so can I and his last post showed me he can be cool.

It isnt that I dislike Hurts, in fact the more I learn about him the more I respect him. His personality is.....bland. But I dont find him to be unlikeable.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

I think Tony Romo and Peyton Manning both had the same issue. They both understood too well how HUGE the moments were and they crumbled under the pressure. Manning just had a much better pedigree and more talent so he overcame those nutchecks. Romo shat his pants in most of them. Theres obviously some other factors but lets not get lost in the weeds defending that loser Romo.

 

[DJackson10]

Your thesis for why you think the team can't succeed: Hurts runs too much, is going to get hurt, and you question if he can develop into a passing QB before that happens.

Any "objective observer" can see he's already developed into a high-level passing QB and that his running didn't prohibit that.

I think it's objective factual he could get hurt running. Hurts doesn't always slides tries to get the extra yard acting like a power back. He needs to do more to protect himself or the team needs to figure out when to run him. He's big enough to accumulate more hits then say Randall was or Vick but even a Cam Newton started getting hurt after awhile too. I think this is legit. People I was at the game with were wondering why he was still running it at times in some of the blow outs this year and brought this up. It's a legit concern.

 

[Amused to Death]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

I think Tony Romo and Peyton Manning both had the same issue. They both understood too well how HUGE the moments were and they crumbled under the pressure. Manning just had a much better pedigree and more talent so he overcame those nutchecks. Romo shat his pants in most of them. Theres obviously some other factors but lets not get lost in the weeds defending that loser Romo.

Yeah I think it takes a certain maturity level to succeed in the post-season. Obviously Hurts wasn't ready for it last year. But hey, he was only 23 and a first year starter. I don't think that's an indictment on how he'll always be in the post-season.

FWIW, I don't think you're making that claim. Some people are.

 

[jasvic]

Ya'll playing with crystal balls while I'm sitting here enjoying the games. The bandwagon is awesome until the wheels fall off. I'll keep riding it until they do. Maybe in 5 years, maybe next year, maybe this week.

Also. here's something to lighten the mood:

r/eagles - Titans bout to find out

123 votes and 6 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

 

[Deamon]

Appreciate the kind words. Ill address each by number:

1) I haven't ignored his numbers - I can find some to fit my narrative, (such as Hurts throwing the 3rd least amount of passes over 20 yards or if numbers mean everything, does this mean that Hurts is better than Rodgers since his number suck? Of course not.) Numbers dont mean everything but some people state them as if they're an end-all to the whole picture. Im not finished with that post yet.

2) Well if we arent allowed to be objective and can only say the positives and pretend there are no negatives, it does indeed seem like you guys are worshipping the ground he works on. Heaven forbid I try and offer constructive criticism of his skills Ill get labeled a hater. I think I have been incredibly complimentary of him while still providing honest takes on his talent. I am truly impressed by his game and willingness to become a better player. I think thats actually his most impressive trait, second only to his running ability.

3) I like DJax. Much like Hurts, he isnt perfect. He's incredibly judgmental, critical, stubborn and he hasn't become "self aware" as I like to call it but he is very smart, he has impeccable morals and I just think hes a good egg. I enjoy my interactions with him. I admit I have a soft spot for him so I am biased.

4) Agreed on the first part (about the anti cowboys/Prescott stuff not being relevant). I can understand why you would say that Im biased and maybe I am predisposed to be more critical of other teams in the division but you'll have to take my word for it, when the game isn't on, I couldn't care less about that stuff. I simply pay attention to the Skins, Giants and Eagles more on Sundays.


I come in this thread because Ive grown to like you guys. I love your passion. I like how active you guys are. The Cowboys thread is virtually nonexistent I just want to talk football and I want to discuss it with others who love the sport as I do or once did. I think now I just love the idea of the sport and how I would run things but thats another story.

The only guys Ive actually not had a down to earth conversation is that JetMaxx dude. Terman22 can be obnoxious, but so can I and his last post showed me he can be cool.

It isnt that I dislike Hurts, in fact the more I learn about him the more I respect him. His personality is.....bland. But I dont find him to be unlikeable.1

1- Numbers don't mean everything, but his passing numbers are fantastic this year and that is the one area of his game that you/Djax seem to keep going after. If he became an elite pocket passer, couldn't run, and we were 7-4, would he be viewed as a better player? It's almost as if a strength (elite running ability) gives him a perception of being overall worse. Even though focusing in on JUST his passing, he has been one of (not the), best in the league.

2- I know you spend a lot of time here, but people aren't worshiping him at all. The only time people really seem to pump his tires is when it's in response to someone who is possibly biased, taking shots at him. Without you and Djax's posts, there wouldn't be a ton of gushing over him. I think we are all just having a blast watching the team this year, are incredibly impressed (as we should be, right?) with how he has progressed. No one is calling him the best QB in the league, and no one is saying we are a lock to make the superbowl, but many people in threads seem to invent that just so they can argue against it.

3- Like you say, he's incredibly stubborn and hasn't become 'self aware". That rubs people the wrong way and discredits a lot of potential good things someone has to say when they become just so incredibly obsessed with being right about something. We are likely not going to win the SB this year, and I absolutely DREAD the day that we get eliminated and he posts "See I told you he couldn't lead us to a title". You know it's coming.

4- That makes sense that you follow our div more.

5- I like lists

6- He definitely is bland, I'll give you that lol. And Nick is the opposite. But hey, they can act however they want if we are 10-1 and they are the .... (ready for this?)... VEGAS ODDS!!!! leaders to win COY and MVP
(EDT: No I don't think they are the best coach or the best QB in the league)

 

[DJackson10]

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

Question 1: Better coaching and team around him

Question 2: The league is pretty funky this year a lot of good teams aren't good. I don't really give a flying **** if he's MVP or not. I care about the end of the year and Lombardy trophy.

Question 3: Not sure how you can say he's a good passer and thats final off 2/3 of one season. He's had inconsistency issues so thats why myself and others are skeptical of him. DIdn't realize that makes us haters. One the 2nd part of this skill wise they are similar players and was giving examples of similar season from similar skillsets which makes sense then comparing him and numbers to guys like Brees, Elway, Peyton etc.

Question 4: It seems some here don't like the fact anything being criticized about the team unless they agree with it already. It's turning into the NBA thread how it was for a few yrs when certain individuals got all butt hurt about people saying stuff about their franchise.

Question 5: Have we really played anyone this year? Props to us beating teams on our schedule but we did a few things. Our QB I think is playing well above what I think his career path is, lack of TO's getting Turnovers on Defense and up until a few weeks ago we've managed to stay very healthy not losing key players when many teams have lost players. I'm scared about Sundays game and even say if we have to face SF in the playoffs. Sea is a sneaky team and I wouldn't be shocked if WAS would beat us again. We have some questions up until now haven't killed us yet that could bite us in the playoffs. We're a double digit win team but our record doesn't tell the whole story. There's really no one this year IMHO you could say thats the team to beat.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the guy has a history of being a very streaky inconsistent player through college and the pros already. Some may argue changing offenses every year and it's a fair argument but thats not everything included. I saw Rodney Pete and Bobby Hoying look amazing think they are the franchise only to be let down the following year and see they were one hit wonders. We saw Foles with an unbelievable season with Chip. Yes he won a SB but outside the playoff run that year he was below avg as a starter. We see many QBs over the years have one great year only to not do anything after that. Case Keenum anyone?

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

 

[DJackson10]

Thanks to a great defense and he was playing in a college gimmick offense people figured out. He had a great Offensive Line and Run game too.

How many successful playoff teams had bad defenses, offensive lines and no running game? I mean, we are talking about the ultimate team sport.

Certain players can combat that or teams overall. The QBs wise I'm mentioning need those things to succeed because they never developed well as passers. Make those guys pocket passers and you'll win. This is what I was saying about TENN the other day. I hope Willis played because if we put 8-9 in the box and stop the run and force them to throw we should win. Malik Willis can't hit the broad side of a barn. Great overall athlete but I have no worries of him as a passer. Force them to do something till they hurt you. No different then giving space to Ben Simmons and daring him to hit jump shots. If he makes one or 2 can't worry about it if he misses 12 others.

 

[DJackson10]

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again

There are 31 other teams in the league that are sold on Jalen Hurts and at least 20 that would sign him in a heartbeat if they were able to. Just for some perspective.

I highly doubt that. But hey they can have him if they want just give me a 1st rounder and they can have him and sign him to some ridiculous contract he won't live up too.

I'll take Hurts over a random 1st round pick any day at this point. Too many are busts.

Too many aren't put in the right situations. I would never as a team draft a Lamar or Malik Wilis on a Hou or CAR team. Lamar was in a great spot at the time because they had a run game, great defense and Offensive line. Its not just about the guys talent but many forget roster situation, team and coaching situations make a huge difference. I remember all of us going through this with the Wentz/DAK debate. I think many of us agreed DAK would've played better those first yrs under Pederson then others and Wentz may not have done as well in DAL. It's all about the player being in the right situation.

Talking to multiple people in the league and college the sense is way too many egos thinking they will be some innovative geniuses. Put themselves before anything else. That doesn't help the player the coach nor the team he's coaching. Lamar Jackson is a perfect example of what type of team should draft that type of player and when. Guys like Lamar are in their primes now. Fade off after 5-6 yrs. Its why BAL isn't paying him what he wants. They know better. I can't tell you how many times I talk to this one guy who was a Former OC/QB coach who gets irate with players being put in bad situations because of coaching ego's and in a wrong fit.

It's why a lot of people think Put Rodgers or Peyton in NE over Brady and they are probably winning just as Many titles. Brady was in a great situation. This isn't taking away his success though but he had an org who did everything they could to help them win. So many years for Peyton and Rodgers they did everything possible to win and their defense set them up to lose or a problem wasn't fixed personal wise. Brady had that in NE.

To put this in perspective I also didn't think Josh Allen would be as good as he is. I did say he was perfect for a team like Buffalo

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

 

[DJackson10]

We'd have to franchise tag him for year 5 if we want to keep him.

Just things to keep an eye on and remember though.

Does this mean you're starting to come around?

Not at all I don't think Hurts will have a season like this again. I see Prescott and Hurts as similar players. Good Regular season guys who can't carry a team in the playoffs. I'm more so saying the Eagles don't have the luxury a MIA and others do with a QB they drafted in the 1st and having a 5th year option. If Hou came to us during the draft and wanted to say swap first rounders and give up something else to take Hurts I'd take that in a heartbeat. Hurts gets to go home HOU maybe pays him outrageous money and hopes he's that good again. Depending who's there QB wise to draft take that guy let Gardner and him duke it out for the starting spot. I think the team around overall is good enough for the playoffs and contend for that already no matter who's back there.

I know going into the season the team wasn't sold Hurts still. If thats changed since I don't know, but I know they aren't rushing to resign him either and end up with a Wentz situation again. If they feel he's not the guy they'll be drafting his replacement and trading Hurts to no get a Wentz/Hurts situation again. Lurie/Howie and company don't want to go through that again so it'll be a swift transition if he's not the guy in terms of coming and going.

You sir are a giant hater.

He’s not. He knows football. Once again, having a different opinion doesn’t make somebody a hater.

To me this looks almost exactly like the season RGIII had. Tons of RPO and crossing routes. The difference between Hurts and RGIII is Hurts is a lot more durable and coachable.

I am clearly biased so I’m sure you’re going to call me a hater after I say this but let me predict to you what’s going to happen when you get to the playoffs and please let me explain my reasoning why….

You guys are running a college offense. NFL teams aren’t used to seeing that week in and week out and because so few teams run what you guys are running, it’s hard to stop during the regular season.

When you get to the playoffs and it’s do or die, the defenses will change their normal scheme, coupled with tougher defensive talent and things will get significantly harder for this team to run that stuff.

Some people say these style offenses are the future, but if you know your history this is a 50 year old offense modified for the forward passing game.

As I said before though, what I underestimated most about Hurts is his drive to improve as a player. I’m very impressed by that aspect of his game. I do worry about him getting injured the way he runs.


ETA - this is exactly what I said in 2012 and everybody said I was a hater and I was wrong. if they keep running that young man he’s going to get hurt.

Can he developed into a pass first guy before that happens is the question.

FTR and with all that said I think you guys have the best team in the NFL this year.

so NFL teams dont try to play defense in the regular season. got it.

also yes it has elements of a college offense. but its really more of a hybrid offense. I guarantee you if they start really trying to stop the run or if hurts was having negative run plays they would go pass heavy. we have already seen it many times this season. he doesnt have to run to be effective.

He also hasn't been consistently effective throwing either. Take away his first read and he looks like a lost puppy out there and just takes off. Yes teams do this defensively in the playoffs. It's a one game elimination. Teams try to stop all aspects in the regular season. Good-great teams coached also don't run through their whole Off/DEF playbooks and save things for the playoffs. Why do you think teams let Lamar Jackson run wild in the regular season and then Stop him come playoff time? During the playoffs teams scheme differently and will scheme a defense that stops the best aspect. Same offensively with certain things.

I've had multiple coaches even admit this. **** Vermiel admitted years ago when I saw him with STL they schemed a totally different way to stop George and McNair in the SB. They implemented parts of the their actual defense into that but they had designed stuff to stop them.

Another good example btw is the fact the Eagles changed their Offense during the bye week of WC weekend and implemented RPO's etc and worked with Foles to make him succeed. Pror to the playoffs most forget people were ****ting bricks worried how poor Foles had been. I think one thing that helped us win was the fact we implemented a lot of new things offensively teams hadn't seen before so it was harder to practice for it. Teams need to constantly change and adapt. It's what makes you a great team and coach

 

[jasvic]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

There could be something to that. The Wentz timeline:
2017: MVP level play, ACL injury
2018: never 100% from injury, messed up his back
2019: took team to playoffs with scrubs at WR, cheap shot in the playoffs to his head
2020 to today: just a terrible QB constantly playing hero ball and taking bad sacks/making bad decisions

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Thanks to a great defense and he was playing in a college gimmick offense people figured out. He had a great Offensive Line and Run game too.

How many successful playoff teams had bad defenses, offensive lines and no running game? I mean, we are talking about the ultimate team sport.

Certain players can combat that or teams overall. The QBs wise I'm mentioning need those things to succeed because they never developed well as passers. Make those guys pocket passers and you'll win. This is what I was saying about TENN the other day. I hope Willis played because if we put 8-9 in the box and stop the run and force them to throw we should win. Malik Willis can't hit the broad side of a barn. Great overall athlete but I have no worries of him as a passer. Force them to do something till they hurt you. No different then giving space to Ben Simmons and daring him to hit jump shots. If he makes one or 2 can't worry about it if he misses 12 others.

This is what I was alluding to earlier.

Player A: Passes the ball 90% of the time, runs 10% of the time. He can't run away from defenders but has some wiggle and elusiveness to slide up into the pocket or to the side and he knows to throw the ball away and live another down.

Player B: Passes the ball 60% of the time, runs 40%. As the arm strength but anytime he gets in trouble he knows he can always rely on his legs to get him out of trouble and has many, many, many times.


Its the last game of the regular season.... Your team is down 4 with 8 seconds left and youre at the 35 yard line. Who do you want to throw the ball?

 

[DJackson10]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

Lamar is at his prime already. He has yet to improve as a passer. His skillset is going to go down further. I'm in full support of how Baltimore is handling that whole contract and should be a great example how franchises should work when it comes to that skillset of player. You're paying for future production not past and Lamar won't live up to what he wants. Hurts has been incredible inconsistent since his college days. Yes he's young but can he improve anymore as a passer then what he has already? Can he adapt to how teams learn to defend him for next year? Can the coaches? Again one year doesn't make a player.

I've discussed at length why these types of players don't last long in the NFL. I guess it's something people either agree or disagree with though

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

Lamar is at his prime already. He has yet to improve as a passer. His skillset is going to go down further. I'm in full support of how Baltimore is handling that whole contract and should be a great example how franchises should work when it comes to that skillset of player. You're paying for future production not past and Lamar won't live up to what he wants. Hurts has been incredible inconsistent since his college days. Yes he's young but can he improve anymore as a passer then what he has already? Can he adapt to how teams learn to defend him for next year? Can the coaches? Again one year doesn't make a player.

I've discussed at length why these types of players don't last long in the NFL. I guess it's something people either agree or disagree with though

What do you mean? Everyone tells me how great of a passer he is! You sound like a hater!

 

[DJackson10]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

I think Tony Romo and Peyton Manning both had the same issue. They both understood too well how HUGE the moments were and they crumbled under the pressure. Manning just had a much better pedigree and more talent so he overcame those nutchecks. Romo shat his pants in most of them. Theres obviously some other factors but lets not get lost in the weeds defending that loser Romo.

Only laughing for saying Loser Romo. I've been on record saying switch Manning and Brady I think Manning wins as many SBs if not more though. Those other factors were better coaching and Peyton never had the Defense that Brady had. There were a few times Manning had big games won only for the defense to blow them.