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2022 Philadelphia Eagles - Leave Gannon in Arizona and let’s run through the NFC again in 2023. (2 Viewers)

DJackson10 said:
The biggest issue is development at the QB position. HS is now becoming a business football wise. Coaches are putting their best athletes at QBs and most don't really teach QB skillsets from starting to read a defense, proper mechanics and other things a QB needs. Get to college and they don't have time to develop them as it's win now. This is why guys like Lamar Jackson and the like will have only short term success as players. Another reason why I don't think a guy like Hurts will develop much further then he is now. If you can't read defenses and be a bit consistent in the pocket as a passer you aren't going to be a long term starter in this league. 

The other issue like I said yesterday is 32 different teams with different scouts and many different opinions on how to develop a QB. Hopefully these new leagues like the XFL and USFL can become like a minor league system for the NFL and help not just QBs but other players with skillsets and develop it. 
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I feel the two bolded sections are related. If HS and college aren't teaching the necessary basics then how can we expect them to have fully developed skills instantly at the pro level? It would seem the lack of early development would require a longer learning curve at the pro level. NFL defenses are more complicated than college and HS defenses. IMHO, only experience in the pro game can help improve their pro game.

Also, these young QBs need time to fully mature and build up their bodies. 

Just my  :2cents:

 
As predicted by anyone with logic going on, Deshaun Watson has *another* grand jury convening on him. So so glad we didn't go after this serial predator. 

 
Terpman22 said:
Gotta believe he's going to be a rotation piece at this point. Doesn't affect our draft plans and adds depth. If he was drafted round 3 vs round 1 I think a lot of us would be ok. 

But damn man, please stop the stupid penalties. Please. 
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I wonder what the money is.  At a reasonable price I can get on board with him being the 4th guy in the rotation with Sweat, BG (hopefully) and a 1st round rookie plus Reddick.  

 
Tom Hagen said:
I wonder what the money is.  At a reasonable price I can get on board with him being the 4th guy in the rotation with Sweat, BG (hopefully) and a 1st round rookie plus Reddick.  
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Guessing a 2/$24M deal with $12 GTD. Lets us out next year if he stinks, keeps him around cheap if he excels. 

 
Amused to Death said:
I feel the two bolded sections are related. If HS and college aren't teaching the necessary basics then how can we expect them to have fully developed skills instantly at the pro level? It would seem the lack of early development would require a longer learning curve at the pro level. NFL defenses are more complicated than college and HS defenses. IMHO, only experience in the pro game can help improve their pro game.

Also, these young QBs need time to fully mature and build up their bodies. 

Just my  :2cents:
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The main issue is at that point in their career at the pro level they are one read QB or just go off by what brought them to the dance. The old can't teach an old dog new tricks which is especially true at the QB position once you hit the NFL. You also have the lack of maturity from some of these guys wanting to get better. Ignorance of what brought me here can work and I don't need to improve which is another issue too. Overall its a mess and I wouldn't want to be a QB coach at the higher levels because of that. It's why I have a lot of respect for a lot of these QBs coaches because I don't think most fans know what they deal with and go through with some of these guys. It's helps when you got an elite QB or someone good enough but these projects teams draft like your Hurts/Willis/Lamar's etc really is frustrating to a lot of these guys. 

 
DJackson10 said:
The main issue is at that point in their career at the pro level they are one read QB or just go off by what brought them to the dance. The old can't teach an old dog new tricks which is especially true at the QB position once you hit the NFL. You also have the lack of maturity from some of these guys wanting to get better. Ignorance of what brought me here can work and I don't need to improve which is another issue too. Overall its a mess and I wouldn't want to be a QB coach at the higher levels because of that. It's why I have a lot of respect for a lot of these QBs coaches because I don't think most fans know what they deal with and go through with some of these guys. It's helps when you got an elite QB or someone good enough but these projects teams draft like your Hurts / Willis /Lamar's etc really is frustrating to a lot of these guys. 
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Thanks for the reply. To the bolded, when a young QB like Hurts show significant improvement between years 1 and 2, why do think they've reached their ceiling? If they haven't had proper coaching at the HS level, and didn't have the proper coaching at the college level, then come into the NFL and improve in their second year, don't you think they may not have reached their maximum potential?

It took Josh Allen till his third year before he had his break out year. Just for comparison, Hurts had a better year 1 as a starter than Allen did. Hurts had the higher QB rating, higher yds/comp, higher completion %. And that's with less games started under his belt. Then add in the rushing stats and Hurts has an even larger advantage. I'm not saying Hurts will be another Josh Allen, but he's on a better track albeit a very small sample size.

I hate to come off as such a Hurts defender as I have the same doubts as everyone else. I'm just amazed at how soon we are to write off players after just a year or two.

 
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Terpman22 said:
Gotta believe he's going to be a rotation piece at this point. Doesn't affect our draft plans and adds depth. If he was drafted round 3 vs round 1 I think a lot of us would be ok. 

But damn man, please stop the stupid penalties. Please. 
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I know not all of them were but I tended to think a lot of his offsides penalties were due to him being gassed and just trying to get a jump on plays when he felt he couldn't get it done otherwise. Maybe in a lesser utilized rotational situation he'll be more "fresh" and get penalized less. Hoping that's the case anyway.

 
jasvic said:
Was mentioned earlier, but 2013 was terrible.

1,16,BUF,EJ Manuel
2,39,NYJ,Geno Smith
3,73,TAM,Mike Glennon
4,98,PHI,Matt Barkley
4,110,NYG,Ryan Nassib
4,112,OAK,Tyler Wilson
4,115,PIT,Landry Jones
7,221,SDG,Brad Sorensen
7,234,DEN,Zac Dysert
7,237,SFO,B.J. Daniels
7,249,ATL,Sean Renfree
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Woof. It was so bad that only two QBs went in the first 2 rounds. QBs always rise just before the draft because desperate teams get irrationally exuberant. In 2013 the class was so bad that that didn’t even happen.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
I know not all of them were but I tended to think a lot of his offsides penalties were due to him being gassed and just trying to get a jump on plays when he felt he couldn't get it done otherwise. Maybe in a lesser utilized rotational situation he'll be more "fresh" and get penalized less. Hoping that's the case anyway.
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I'm ok with an offsides penalty here and there, just like a false start here and there on OL.

But the non stop 15 yarders are nuts: usually unnecessary roughness or roughing the QB from him. And almost always in the wrong moment on like a 3rd down incompletion or something. 

Drives me absolutely crazy. 

 
Terpman22 said:
And almost always in the wrong moment on like a 3rd down incompletion or something
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Right, 3 of his 8 penalties last season were on 3rd down and wiped out what would have been 4th down. The other 5 were also "positive" for the opponent (accepting the penalty was better than the actual result of the play.)

 
Amused to Death said:
Thanks for the reply. To the bolded, when a young QB like Hurts show significant improvement between years 1 and 2, why do think they've reached their ceiling? If they haven't had proper coaching at the HS level, and didn't have the proper coaching at the college level, then come into the NFL and improve in their second year, don't you think they may not have reached their maximum potential?

It took Josh Allen till his third year before he had his break out year. Just for comparison, Hurts had a better year 1 as a starter than Allen did. Hurts had the higher QB rating, higher yds/comp, higher completion %. And that's with less games started under his belt. Then add in the rushing stats and Hurts has an even larger advantage. I'm not saying Hurts will be another Josh Allen, but he's on a better track albeit a very small sample size.

I hate to come off as such a Hurts defender as I have the same doubts as everyone else. I'm just amazed at how soon we are to write off players after just a year or two.
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Good point and I hate the Jost Allen comparison. He's an exception to the rule. Literally everyone who I've talked to who knows more then me about this says that Allen success is the exception not the rule. Too many coaches and orgs think they can do this. Allen had a lot going for him though before the NFL. Allen's issues were actual a lot more simple to fix. Tweak here and there with mechanics and his foot work. he already was good at Defensive reads. 

Guys like Hurts 1 read QBs usually don't translate well success wise to the NFL. I should say consistent success. You'll see a game here and there where people will be like "we told you he could do it." and then he'll have like 5 clunkers in a row. Guys like Hurts will eat bad defenses alive but come face better defenses like TB's or LAR will exploit the weaknesses. I was literally scared to death honestly of facing LAR's defense over TB though. They just have too many great pass rushers and a good secondary.

Hurts biggest issue is his mechanics and the fact he doesn't have the arm strength to limit the mistakes on off scheduled throws. Some of that can be fixed on footwork but theres a lot that needs work. He's left a lot of open receivers and ran from clean pockets something a lot of people hated Wentz doing btw." I think all and all Hurts has just too many problems to fix in the long rung here. He did look like he improved but again he also faced some weaker competition and struggled agains better teams. He needs to really improve vs the better teams for me. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Good point and I hate the Jost Allen comparison. He's an exception to the rule. Literally everyone who I've talked to who knows more then me about this says that Allen success is the exception not the rule. Too many coaches and orgs think they can do this. Allen had a lot going for him though before the NFL. Allen's issues were actual a lot more simple to fix. Tweak here and there with mechanics and his foot work. he already was good at Defensive reads. 

Guys like Hurts 1 read QBs usually don't translate well success wise to the NFL. I should say consistent success. You'll see a game here and there where people will be like "we told you he could do it." and then he'll have like 5 clunkers in a row. Guys like Hurts will eat bad defenses alive but come face better defenses like TB's or LAR will exploit the weaknesses. I was literally scared to death honestly of facing LAR's defense over TB though. They just have too many great pass rushers and a good secondary.

Hurts biggest issue is his mechanics and the fact he doesn't have the arm strength to limit the mistakes on off scheduled throws. Some of that can be fixed on footwork but theres a lot that needs work. He's left a lot of open receivers and ran from clean pockets something a lot of people hated Wentz doing btw." I think all and all Hurts has just too many problems to fix in the long rung here. He did look like he improved but again he also faced some weaker competition and struggled agains better teams. He needs to really improve vs the better teams for me. 
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Well like I said, I don't mean to be a Hurts apologist as I have many of the same doubts and concerns. But I bet Buffalo is happy they didn't move on from Allen after year 2. And Hurts is ahead of where he was and a bigger offensive weapon.

2022 will be a big year for Hurts no matter what.

 
After listening to the Watson and Berry presser thank god we didn’t get him let alone pay that cost. I think he’s a long way from being out of the woods with this issue. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
After listening to the Watson and Berry presser thank god we didn’t get him let alone pay that cost. I think he’s a long way from being out of the woods with this issue. 
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Amen to that man. A good football player, but same page bro soooo glad we didn't get him (and that money)

 
Amused to Death said:
Well like I said, I don't mean to be a Hurts apologist as I have many of the same doubts and concerns. But I bet Buffalo is happy they didn't move on from Allen after year 2. And Hurts is ahead of where he was and a bigger offensive weapon.

2022 will be a big year for Hurts no matter what.
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I think the Eagles are finished with Hurts after this year. He wasn't picked by this coaching staff and he'd already been gone if better options were available right now. I don't think it will really matter as he wasn't "Nick's Guy" per say. Like I said before he didn't do anything to warrant the knee jerk we need to sign a QB now but he also didn't play himself into the "well he could be the guy" either. Even if he improves a little more after this year I think he's gone and Nick tries to get his guy next year 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
After listening to the Watson and Berry presser thank god we didn’t get him let alone pay that cost. I think he’s a long way from being out of the woods with this issue. 
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I use to have mad respect for Andrew Berry who use to be here but from reading into things that contract close with this years $$$ cap total is something an agent would suggest and AB and company were ok with it. 

Then you got the team making comments like "We like Watson as a person". They are really proving that rumor that they never really did any investigating themselves on the case with these tone deaf comments. I can't wait to see the Brown's back tracking when he's suspended or in jail. Meanwhile Houston is giggling to the back Not only that but the Browns pissed off their current QB WHO THEY DRAFTED!!!!

 
For the Secondary Eagles apparently looking at Tall Physical corners on the outside. Since Sauce Gardner won't be there at their first pick guys like Elam will be looked at as well as Stingley/Booth. 

 
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Insein said:
It's not sexy but it looks like an upgrade. 
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Everything I've read about this signing over the weekend, the reviews seem positive. Another low key, savvy move to keep us flexible to "do what is best for the team" with the 3 1st rounders, meaning not forcing picks at positions of need. If you were dreaming about a certain LB in the first round, hope against hope that Howie would break the mold, I hate to be the breaker of bad news and all...

DE+CB are my "for sure" locked in positions we will draft in the 1st round at this point (after I just deleted WR + CB haha)

 
DJackson10 said:
Upgrade at the SLB and he's from the Leigh heigh valley and Eagles fan as well. 
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Went to my kid's high school (just like his older brothers Kevin, 2015 1.07 and Ka'Raun 2018 Undrafted)

 
No way we are drafting a LB high after the free agent moves we have made

Also add in we never draft LB high and I think it's definelty not going to happen

 
Terpman22 said:
Everything I've read about this signing over the weekend, the reviews seem positive. Another low key, savvy move to keep us flexible to "do what is best for the team" with the 3 1st rounders, meaning not forcing picks at positions of need. If you were dreaming about a certain LB in the first round, hope against hope that Howie would break the mold, I hate to be the breaker of bad news and all...

DE+CB are my "for sure" locked in positions we will draft in the 1st round at this point (after I just deleted WR + CB haha)
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I could see them going DT and going with Jordan Davis honestly. He'd open a lot of possibilities for their personal moving guys around. Gannon's defense is multi front and Davis can easily play DT or NT depending on the scenario. 

 
Insein said:
So Barnett got $13m guaranteed. Who were we competing against? 🤦‍♂️
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Yeah reading up on it now, looks like its still a 1 year "prove it" type of deal with potential dead cap hits spread over extra years. Not loving it, not hating it either, if I"m not taking it personal haha. Howie always seems to manage the cap right, so I have faith. Still taking DL high in this draft and if he can't play, he won't play. 

 
The Noid said:
Tom Hagen said:
That was my thought. If the agent didn't tell Schefter to tweet the amount, it probably isn't a great deal for Barnett.
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If it's a penny over $7MM/year, it's a bad deal for us. 
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It's pretty much exactly that, to the penny. $5.5MM for 2022, $8.5MM for 2023.

Only $1.5MM in 2023 is guaranteed, so worst case it winds up being $7MM for one more year of dumb penalties. What a bargain! 

 
Sirianni said this, with a straight face, at his presser during the league meetings today:

Derek Barnett is everything that embodies what we want in the characteristics of a player. He’s tough, he’s competitive, he’s got high football IQ, he’s got high character, he loves football. Man, I love Derek Barnett. I love the type of player and person that he is. We just felt like they fit what we want, not only as a player but as a person and as a teammate
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:confused:

 
Jeffrey Lurie announces Eagles Kelly Green Jersey coming in 23 with a Green Helmet wanted to bring the helmet with the throw back look, takes 2 yrs to do everything. Wanted this in 18. Also announced Eagles all Black will have a Black Alternate Helmet and the players love wearing the black. 

 
@kracze

Now allowed secondary helmets. Lurie hopes they can use 3 in 2023 for black, Kelly green, and whatever their main one is

 
A lot of interesting topics by Lurie. From Uniform changes, giving a nice speech on the late John Clayton, Carson situation, what part of the draft he was involved in, how they got Jordan Mailata, and a lot of different things. We don't get Lurie publicly speaking often. 

Interesting part is he talked about JJAW draft said it was between Paris Campbell and JJAW. The roomed asked him who he liked and he told them they had his blessing on either guy. Thinks it came down to injury history as Campbell had some soft tissue injuries and such. Goes on to say then you had WAS take Terry McLaurin and props to them. Thats just sometimes how the draft works. gave Roseman major props on getting Jordan and how they didn't have a 7th rounder and Howie managed to maneuver to get there. How Roseman found out another team had the same idea and jumped them to get Jordan. Said the High reward there was worth the risk

Talked how he was a huge fan of Lane Johnson too so it looks like even if Dion Jordan was available Lurie was not going to sign off on that pick just how he talked about Lane and how that was one of the few times he let his fandom get in the way. 

This was the most open that Lurie has ever been IMHO when it comes to interviews. He shared some thoughts on Howie and guys like Barnett and Cox resigning. A few details on draft and player decisions etc. He also addressed rumors of him being more involved in personal and coaching decisions. This might have been one of my favorite Lurie press conferences over the last decade honestly. 

 
Malcom Jenkins is retiring.  :football:

2 time Super Bowl champion & 3 time pro bowler with an amazing 13 year career!!

I just want to say thank you to Malcom for an amazing 2017 SB season. Malcom was exactly what the Eagles needed after Dawkins left for Denver.

Eagles winning with style... https://youtu.be/tUyz6iP_bQo

 
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