massraider
Footballguy
This list makes me think:
If you are not the type to change out safeties, and would rather just roll with the same ones, grabbing Brisker where he's going should be a priority.
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2022 Rookies (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dacomish
- Start date
If you are not the type to change out safeties, and would rather just roll with the same ones, grabbing Brisker where he's going should be a priority.
Agreed and good chance he goes next but most teams DB are fine. It is DL and LB that needs work. With scoring most teams only want to start 4 DB and it is the most plentiful position. Lots of nice DBs left.
I thought I put earlier. Will update list
15 team Super Flex. Start 11 O and 11 D. D is 3-2-4 with 2 flex but only 4 DL max.
O is start 11. 1-2 QB, 1-5 RB, 2-6 WR, 1-4 TE, 1-3 PK. QBs top 6 scorers a year ago. It is PPR with TE premium. 2 QB is almost must to compete but flex helps for bye weeks.
massraider
Footballguy
I kinda skipped over Brandon Smith, as the name is forgettable, no one really hyping him, and him going to the Panthers.
But he's an athlete, ideal size, going to a bad team with one Shaq Thompson, and then some guys. Worth looking into.
But he's an athlete, ideal size, going to a bad team with one Shaq Thompson, and then some guys. Worth looking into.
Dacomish
Footballguy
If it helps - recently completed:
16 Team
28 man active rosters (plus 3 man rookie Taxi Squad)
IDP (7 Def starters/7 Off starters) DL/LB/DB (Start 2 of each and 1 Def Flex)
Single QB start
.5RB/1 WR/1.5TE PPR (TE not mandatory start, just WR/TE)
https://www53.myfantasyleague.com/2022/options?L=67844&O=17
16 Team
28 man active rosters (plus 3 man rookie Taxi Squad)
IDP (7 Def starters/7 Off starters) DL/LB/DB (Start 2 of each and 1 Def Flex)
Single QB start
.5RB/1 WR/1.5TE PPR (TE not mandatory start, just WR/TE)
https://www53.myfantasyleague.com/2022/options?L=67844&O=17
Surprised Thibodeaux was the first IDP off the board. Seems like a bit of a risk (not knowing the scoring system). In almost every draft I have seen Hutchinson went first and then a couple LB's in some order of Lloyd, Walker, Dean before Thibs goes.
Tick
Footballguy
Here's where I have the IDPs ranked in my three rulesets: Zealots PPR (MFL, so OLBs are LBs), Zealots SF (same), and a 16 team SF with IDP123 scoring (Sleeper, so OLBs are DLs):
- Hutchinson: 15, 18, 25
- Thibodeaux: 16, 19, 27
- Lloyd: 19, 16, 14
- Quay: 25, 20, 16
- Hamilton: 40, 40, 26
- Karlaftis: 41, 47, 45
- Jermaine: 42, 48, 46
- Anderson: 43, 33, 28
- Cine: 44, 57, 30
- Dean: 52, 45, 44
- Harris: 59, 56, 54
- Tindall: 60, 58, 55
- Brisker: 61, 59, 56
- Ebiketie: 62, 60, NR
- Muma: 63, 67, 62
- Chenal: 64, 59, 63
- Ojabo: 65, 59, NR
- Pitre: 66, 72, 64
- Williams: 67, 70, NR
- Asamoah: 68, NR, 65
- Cook: 70, NR, 66
- Drake: 71, NR, NR
- Cross: 72, NR, 72
- B.Smith: NR, NR, 67
Dacomish
Footballguy
I still don't think scoring format would ever push Thibs above Hutch for me. It definitely could lead to more DL (edge) being taken before LB's though.
My scoring is big play with sacks worth 8 pts (3 sack, 3 for QBH, 2 TFL) to 1 pt per tackle so edge guys are premium. For example Za'Darius Smith has been a top 5 IDP once or twice. It definitely can skew drafts for those that pay attention.
Tick
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/taylucas21/status/1524112571468435456?s=21&t=FFQEv2Op6oUOFcVS0H9rJQ
Another set of mixed rookie rankings
Another set of mixed rookie rankings
MAC_32
Footballguy
From a high level I don't think there's a meaningful difference between KT and Hutch, but I think the former has a multiple all pro ceiling that competes for the sack title whereas the latter does not. That's a very meaningful difference in our game if the scoring format dictates as much. I'm more inclined to prioritize the safer Hutch in tackle heavy, but big play? Notsomuch.
Tick
Footballguy
Gah!
https://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2022/site_news?CATEGORY=Player Position Changes
A bunch of rookie DEs just switched to LB
https://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2022/site_news?CATEGORY=Player Position Changes
A bunch of rookie DEs just switched to LB
rockaction
Footballguy
The guy in our league that drafted Thibodeaux at 2.05 is going to be reeling. I sort of did a double take when it went on the board for this exact reason. I feel bad for the guy, but this was coming.
That said, it's garbage, frankly. It makes this game so much less about skill and so much more about luck. Yeah, you could pay attention and realize that Davenport had recommended EDGE designation and been rejected by MFL, but really, is that the type of attention that deserves reward? I only know because I'm a junkie who visits here frequently. Seems to me a casual designation during a draft should mean that the player is left at that position for at least the year, if not longer.
And don't get me started on drafting guys only for the coaches to change the system.
Gah! is right.
That said, it's garbage, frankly. It makes this game so much less about skill and so much more about luck. Yeah, you could pay attention and realize that Davenport had recommended EDGE designation and been rejected by MFL, but really, is that the type of attention that deserves reward? I only know because I'm a junkie who visits here frequently. Seems to me a casual designation during a draft should mean that the player is left at that position for at least the year, if not longer.
And don't get me started on drafting guys only for the coaches to change the system.
Gah! is right.
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In my other league a player retains the position he is drafted at for the duration of his contract length. If a player is not under contract or the draft occurs after a position change the position change takes affect. Basically if you are locked to a player he retains the position you chose him at.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Thibodeaux's ceiling is a lot higher. If you told me one of these guys was a perennial 20+ sack guy my bet would be him all day long. He's got a lower floor and higher bust factor I think which makes Hutchison a little safer and more popular overall pick, but I'm drafting purely for upside and would take Kavon every time.
Dez
Footballguy
Dez
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
Exactly this for me as well. Early-breakout 1st round WRs (London, Olave) hit at 71%, round 2 RBs hit at 66%. I recognize that everyone has Hall #1, but it's not as clear for me. I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision - my earliest pick was 1.07. I got two Olave shares and am as happy with that as if I had pick 1-4.
Tick
Footballguy
I drafted an IDP! First in four drafts this year - I had pick 3.08 in a 12-team MFL SF IDP league and was planning to pick a WR I like who had fallen too far, but this was a team where my DEs were Maxx Crosby and Josh Allen, and both got nuked by MFL. So, I picked Aidan Hutchinson. I had him in this tier, so it wasn’t a huge reach to take him instead of the WR, but I still felt iffy about taking a DE in a rookie draft and having to see if he gets reclassified later this offseason.
This is so wrong by them these days. Most teams run a 4-2-5 mostly and they are making huge decisions that impact leagues negatively. You should have rules in place for such occurrences. Crosby does nothing but rush the passer. So does Allen. A 4-3 or 3-4 is really no more. Defence is so flexible. And there is stats out there for these individuals.Tick said:
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
7. JAX - Travon Walker adjusting to OLB
Source: Jaguars.com - John Oehser
Jacksonville Jaguars No. 1 overall pick DE Travon Walker is extensively working at outside linebacker in minicamps. 'Just strictly working on outside linebacker things in practice I feel like I'm truly getting more comfortable with the position,' Walker said. 'There's always room for improvement. At Georgia we ran a lot of techniques, but once I got here, [I had to] break down a lot of those techniques that I learned at Georgia, and focus on that one thing. I (dropped into coverage) at Georgia, so I'm kind of used to it. But now, I'm working on it a lot more getting into seven-on-seven, so I'll get a lot more comfortable with dropping instead of just dropping every now and then.'
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]
There's good reason to think Walker can adjust to outside linebacker, but it's not that often that a team takes a player #1 overall to play a different role than he did in college. Walker was more of a high ceiling projection than #2 pick Aidan Hutchinson, who was a high floor complete all-around end. With Walker and "the other" Josh Allen, the Jaguars could sport the best edge duo in the league sooner than later.
Source: Jaguars.com - John Oehser
Jacksonville Jaguars No. 1 overall pick DE Travon Walker is extensively working at outside linebacker in minicamps. 'Just strictly working on outside linebacker things in practice I feel like I'm truly getting more comfortable with the position,' Walker said. 'There's always room for improvement. At Georgia we ran a lot of techniques, but once I got here, [I had to] break down a lot of those techniques that I learned at Georgia, and focus on that one thing. I (dropped into coverage) at Georgia, so I'm kind of used to it. But now, I'm working on it a lot more getting into seven-on-seven, so I'll get a lot more comfortable with dropping instead of just dropping every now and then.'
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]
There's good reason to think Walker can adjust to outside linebacker, but it's not that often that a team takes a player #1 overall to play a different role than he did in college. Walker was more of a high ceiling projection than #2 pick Aidan Hutchinson, who was a high floor complete all-around end. With Walker and "the other" Josh Allen, the Jaguars could sport the best edge duo in the league sooner than later.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Not really a rookie question, but where would you value Foyesade Oluokon if he were in the rookie draft? (Zealots scoring) I asked someone if they might be interested in trading their late 1st for him (who looked a bit LB needy) and got a response back like it was an insulting question.
I've seen Lloyd and Hutchinson drafted in late 1st/early 2nd in some leagues, and usually gone by middle of second, and I think Oluokon better dynasty value than either, but wondering if I'm way off.
I've seen Lloyd and Hutchinson drafted in late 1st/early 2nd in some leagues, and usually gone by middle of second, and I think Oluokon better dynasty value than either, but wondering if I'm way off.
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Dacomish
Footballguy
I would say he is right in that 8-10 range dynasty ranking wise and a late 1st isn't exactly a bad offer. If I was LB strapped I'd consider it for sure, especially in this draft.
I thi k the problem is the perception of Zealots value for IDP is lesser so giving of a 1st rounder seems like too much.
I have Oluokun in our league and I don't think I would move him for that but I don't value draft picks like most dynasty owners.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'd rather have a rook lb with a 2, but that's because of how I build my team. Oluokun is better than any of them for (probably) 2 years. That's certainly not insulting for a late 1 in this crop, but I also don't do zealots.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Yeah - I know Lloyd went in the first in our draft, but it seems like that is more the exception than the norm.
I was hoping I could trade him for something around this spot in the draft, but not looking like any takers (and one person telling me they had never heard of him
). I think he’s more valuable than a mid-2nd; so, I guess I’ll just hold.
Enderdog
Footballguy
Well I had heard of him, I just didn't know if he was a DL or LB, or what team he played for.one person telling me they had never heard of him
rockaction
Footballguy
I traded Foye and a second to Gally for Gallup, Slayton, and a future pick before Foye's monster year. I knew his contract was up and didn't figure he was that good of a linebacker. But we all know that in tackle-heavy leagues, sometimes a decent linebacker becomes a fantasy stud. And then JAX pays him. Who'd have figured? I didn't.
That trade did not work out well.
Foye Oluokun. And it was @massraiderthat alerted me to him. Thanks, mass. If only I could undo the damage I do to myself.
Gonzo fantasy football!
That trade did not work out well.
Foye Oluokun. And it was @massraiderthat alerted me to him. Thanks, mass. If only I could undo the damage I do to myself.
Gonzo fantasy football!
Tick
Footballguy
I'm through 5 Zealots drafts (3 PPR, 2 SF), and here are the players I got multiple times and which pick I got them with (SF picks underlined)
- Olave (10, 8)
- Dotson (13,15)
- Wan'Dale (26, 27, 40, 41) - this year's Dee Eskridge!
- Brian Robinson (25, 28)
- White (14, 29 (how?))
- Gray (47, 62, 63, 56, 58) - this year's Tutu Atwell!
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rockaction
Footballguy
Chad Muma surprisingly went undrafted in our Zealots league and is going for 111 Z Bucks at auction, leaving the guy bidding on him with 10 left for the year. I could go over the top of the guy bidding, but that seems a little extravagant for a guy that might only be a stash until 2024, really. Seems like an inordinately wasteful resource allocation. Norton has him as a Tier II guy, though.
It's tough because I had a watch on him all the way (didn't have a fourth or fifth round pick, and my third round pick was going offense given the guys who were left) so this is tough, but his situation is terrible. They just paid Oluokun and spent a lot of draft capital on Lloyd. Their goal is to make Muma the "money" backer that is prevalent in Todd Bowles's defenses, which means a lot of coverage. It would seem that he should be passed over at that role, situation, and price.
Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts? Auction ends in six hours. It's about midnight PDT right now.
It's tough because I had a watch on him all the way (didn't have a fourth or fifth round pick, and my third round pick was going offense given the guys who were left) so this is tough, but his situation is terrible. They just paid Oluokun and spent a lot of draft capital on Lloyd. Their goal is to make Muma the "money" backer that is prevalent in Todd Bowles's defenses, which means a lot of coverage. It would seem that he should be passed over at that role, situation, and price.
Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts? Auction ends in six hours. It's about midnight PDT right now.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Jacksonville is run by a drunk monkey, which killed Muma's short term value. Serious injury to those in front of him is his only path to a full time and productive role. Re-visit him in-season '23. Maybe Baalke's replacement will take the Oluokun out before 24.
I was in on him until about $25. His situation makes him like a ton of other LB's and definitely not worth the $111. I was shocked when I saw him go up that high. Seems like a bad idea. In order for that be a good purchase he needs to be top 5 LB for multiple seasons. That looks unlikely.
Tick
Footballguy
At 111 zbucks, I'd pass and pick up whoever is left of Harris, Tindall, Chenal, Asamoah, maybe Bernard/Smith/McFadden/Rodriguez - you'll probably win the auction for <10.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks, guys. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. Way, way too much for him. I think I even only wrote here only to try and figure out what Z buck dollars figure is worth corresponding to each round. In other words, how much would you pay for a pick of a certain round?
$111 was way, way too much.
$111 was way, way too much.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I think Harris and Tindall are in a different conversation than Muma. I agree that he belongs on the same tier as Chenal, Asamoah, and Rodriguez. Take a flier on the cheapest one, but only if you're willing to commit the roster spot until at least April 2023. Otherwise, don't bother. I never applied any thought to the other 3 mentioned - should I?
Tick
Footballguy
The least I possibly could
- it varies wildly. I'll see a guy give 100 zbucks for a 6th and another give 30 for a 4th.My management of zbucks tends to be to spend high on the guys I really want, try to leave 75+ for after the rookie draft, try to leave 50+ for the season. I have an annual reminder on the calendar to spend high on day 1 of auctions - I missed on everyone one year because they went too high, then ended up spending like 150 on Early Doucet 2 weeks later since there was nothing else I could do with them.
An owner in one Z league got low on zbucks earlier this offseason and sold Lavonte David to me for 57 and Robert Quinn for 30. I've auctioned off some 6ths for the most zbucks anyone would give me late in seasons, and I've bought some 6ths when I have more than I need and someone else is low.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks, Tick. That's about how I manage it, too. Except I try to leave around a hundred for the season, because it seems that a hundred is what I spend. I'm also in the habit of spending too much and selling off 4th, 5th, and 6th-round draft picks, something I'm going to try hard not to do this year. It tends to drain the IDP side of the draft when I do that. There were guys this year I wanted in the 4th and 5th, but didn't have a pick and didn't want to give a future '23 for one.The least I possibly could
My management of zbucks tends to be to spend high on the guys I really want, try to leave 75+ for after the rookie draft, try to leave 50+ for the season. I have an annual reminder on the calendar to spend high on day 1 of auctions - I missed on everyone one year because they went too high, then ended up spending like 150 on Early Doucet 2 weeks later since there was nothing else I could do with them.
An owner in one Z league got low on zbucks earlier this offseason and sold Lavonte David to me for 57 and Robert Quinn for 30. I've auctioned off some 6ths for the most zbucks anyone would give me late in seasons, and I've bought some 6ths when I have more than I need and someone else is low.
But yeah, I guess Z buck values vary due to timing and situation.
Tick
Footballguy
I'm finished with my 7 rookie drafts, and here are my rookie IDP picks:
- Hutchinson (32)
- Karlaftis (45)
- Troy Anderson (55)
- Sam Williams (62)
- Drake Jackson (68)
- Jalen Pitre (70)
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Tick
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I personally thought that was a bit high for him -- 6 points per sack plus yardage points; 2 pts per tackle. I have Reddick there. He was a top 5 DE, but looks like he now sits at LB24 based on stats last year. I had the 1.8 and would have taken Travon Walker if I thought he was going to stay at DE, but opted for Troy Andersen instead (who is looking like my guy since I think I've picked him in all 5 of my drafts).
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'd have considered picking him at that point, but probably not prior. Roster clogging rookie lb's that require 2 years patience aren't my jam.
I am not sold on Muma being an impact guy for at least a year or two. He actually went undrafted in our rookie draft last month (happened right after the NFL draft so landing spot was known). For reference 10 LB's were drafted out of the 72 picks in the draft. I like him in the spot you got him but he could be a roster clogger for a year or two until things shake out for him. His landing spot wasn't ideal based on the other moves Jax made (Lloyd & Oluokun)
Muma did go in the free agent auction after the draft for an astronomical $111 zBucks so people did want him........or at least two people really wanted him.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yep - Baalke ineptitude is the primary source of blame in our game. The amount of scarce resources he threw at linebacker this offseason elicits laughter because I find stupidity hysterical. If whoever replaces him believes in Muma then he'll exercise the out on Oluokun after '23 and get Muma on the field.
