2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (5 Viewers)

[the moops]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I think the two of them are pretty comparable actually. And Maxey is going to get paid next year so the contract won’t be better for long.

 

[Kiddnets]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

 

[mr. furley]

Evan Fournier on his time with the Knicks

"Fournier admitted that he doesn't have a relationship with head coach Thibodeau. He wants to get traded and doesn't understand the logic of the Knicks organization. Fournier says he's lost the fun in basketball and wants to have it back."

 

[msudaisy26]

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because shipping him for Dame may put them over the top?

Shipping him and what for Dame?

I don't know. That was the context of the comparison, which had greater trade value. You asked why they wouldn't just keep him

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because Dame is better than Herro. Dan basically said that Woj was carrying water for Portland in his "reporting" (Dan is carrying the Heat water here with his response. I know that). The Basics is Maxey is being floated as "philly's offer" and Dan's response was: Maxey isn't better than herro, hes just darker than Herro.

Being as unbiased as I can be here: Maxey and Herro are similar players. Maxey gets the nod on D while Herro is more of an offensive force. Herro getting hurt dring the playoff run and Dame becoming available are the only reasons Miami is interested here bc if they could keep Herro, Bam, and Jimmy and add Dame and not pay a ridiculous tax they would. The only Miami contracts that the Heat "regret" are Lowry and Duncan.

And around and around and around we go.

Forget Dame for a second - if Miami were to trade Herro to another team for a draft pick or picks, what do you think teams would offer? Non-protected first? First and a second?

To me (and others in Portland) it certainly feels like Miami is trying like hell to inflate Herro's value. Which is fine, I get it, but is the rest of the NBA buying that?

More than one team has offerred a first for Herro, not the other way around. Problem is that things get "complicated" in the salary stuff bc teams have to send matching salaries and the like and it becomes tax issues for Miami (The Brooklyn "third team" proposed deal had that hangup with Simmons then being added to the mix).

A 24 year old 20 point scorer with a handle who can create his own shot and has range beyond the three point line is no longer valuable in the NBA? He is a former 6th man of the year and had the highest FG percentage in the 4th quarter last year. If it wasn't Dame (and if Miami didn't go deep in the playoffs without him) Miami would likely want to keep him.

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

If your first paragraph was true then this deal would have been done already. A third team would have gladly jumped in to take Herro and send the first to Portland with expiring deals or team friendly deals.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because shipping him for Dame may put them over the top?

Shipping him and what for Dame?

I don't know. That was the context of the comparison, which had greater trade value. You asked why they wouldn't just keep him

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because Dame is better than Herro. Dan basically said that Woj was carrying water for Portland in his "reporting" (Dan is carrying the Heat water here with his response. I know that). The Basics is Maxey is being floated as "philly's offer" and Dan's response was: Maxey isn't better than herro, hes just darker than Herro.

Being as unbiased as I can be here: Maxey and Herro are similar players. Maxey gets the nod on D while Herro is more of an offensive force. Herro getting hurt dring the playoff run and Dame becoming available are the only reasons Miami is interested here bc if they could keep Herro, Bam, and Jimmy and add Dame and not pay a ridiculous tax they would. The only Miami contracts that the Heat "regret" are Lowry and Duncan.

And around and around and around we go.

Forget Dame for a second - if Miami were to trade Herro to another team for a draft pick or picks, what do you think teams would offer? Non-protected first? First and a second?

To me (and others in Portland) it certainly feels like Miami is trying like hell to inflate Herro's value. Which is fine, I get it, but is the rest of the NBA buying that?

More than one team has offerred a first for Herro, not the other way around. Problem is that things get "complicated" in the salary stuff bc teams have to send matching salaries and the like and it becomes tax issues for Miami (The Brooklyn "third team" proposed deal had that hangup with Simmons then being added to the mix).

A 24 year old 20 point scorer with a handle who can create his own shot and has range beyond the three point line is no longer valuable in the NBA? He is a former 6th man of the year and had the highest FG percentage in the 4th quarter last year. If it wasn't Dame (and if Miami didn't go deep in the playoffs without him) Miami would likely want to keep him.

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

If your first paragraph was true then this deal would have been done already. A third team would have gladly jumped in to take Herro and send the first to Portland with expiring deals or team friendly deals.

Not if Lillard won't go to said team.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I think the two of them are pretty comparable actually. And Maxey is going to get paid next year so the contract won’t be better for long.

That was the main point Lebatard was making. They are pretty close statistically with Maxey being a slightly better defender and Herro a slightly better rebounder. If anything the difference is marginal and with Herro being a controlled cost he is a better asset

 

[msudaisy26]

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because shipping him for Dame may put them over the top?

Shipping him and what for Dame?

I don't know. That was the context of the comparison, which had greater trade value. You asked why they wouldn't just keep him

Dan LeBetard - who apparently is the spokesperson for the Miami Heat - said Tyler Herro is better than Tyrese Maxey.

Maxey may well be better in the future, and his contract is certainly better, but I am not sure that this is such an outlandish statment

Soooooooo......again, I ask: why not just keep him?

Because Dame is better than Herro. Dan basically said that Woj was carrying water for Portland in his "reporting" (Dan is carrying the Heat water here with his response. I know that). The Basics is Maxey is being floated as "philly's offer" and Dan's response was: Maxey isn't better than herro, hes just darker than Herro.

Being as unbiased as I can be here: Maxey and Herro are similar players. Maxey gets the nod on D while Herro is more of an offensive force. Herro getting hurt dring the playoff run and Dame becoming available are the only reasons Miami is interested here bc if they could keep Herro, Bam, and Jimmy and add Dame and not pay a ridiculous tax they would. The only Miami contracts that the Heat "regret" are Lowry and Duncan.

And around and around and around we go.

Forget Dame for a second - if Miami were to trade Herro to another team for a draft pick or picks, what do you think teams would offer? Non-protected first? First and a second?

To me (and others in Portland) it certainly feels like Miami is trying like hell to inflate Herro's value. Which is fine, I get it, but is the rest of the NBA buying that?

More than one team has offerred a first for Herro, not the other way around. Problem is that things get "complicated" in the salary stuff bc teams have to send matching salaries and the like and it becomes tax issues for Miami (The Brooklyn "third team" proposed deal had that hangup with Simmons then being added to the mix).

A 24 year old 20 point scorer with a handle who can create his own shot and has range beyond the three point line is no longer valuable in the NBA? He is a former 6th man of the year and had the highest FG percentage in the 4th quarter last year. If it wasn't Dame (and if Miami didn't go deep in the playoffs without him) Miami would likely want to keep him.

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

If your first paragraph was true then this deal would have been done already. A third team would have gladly jumped in to take Herro and send the first to Portland with expiring deals or team friendly deals.

Not if Lillard won't go to said team.

Huh?

 

[thecatch]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

If a team or two holds the line in these situations, that will set a precedent and the next guy looking at signing one of the gargantuan contracts will at least have to think a little bit about the possibility that he won’t be able to just demand a trade later to wherever he specifically wants to go.

 

[Kiddnets]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

If a team or two holds the line in these situations, that will set a precedent and the next guy looking at signing one of the gargantuan contracts will at least have to think a little bit about the possibility that he won’t be able to just demand a trade later to wherever he specifically wants to go.

so far every team has caved - let's see how Portland and Philly deals with it. Im predicting both players get traded to the team they want eventually

 

[msudaisy26]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

If a team or two holds the line in these situations, that will set a precedent and the next guy looking at signing one of the gargantuan contracts will at least have to think a little bit about the possibility that he won’t be able to just demand a trade later to wherever he specifically wants to go.

so far every team has caved - let's see how Portland and Philly deals with it. Im predicting both players get traded to the team they want eventually

It would neat to see Portland hold strong. It really doesn't change their time line. It does hurt not to get assets back and some cap relief though.

 

[General Malaise]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

If a team or two holds the line in these situations, that will set a precedent and the next guy looking at signing one of the gargantuan contracts will at least have to think a little bit about the possibility that he won’t be able to just demand a trade later to wherever he specifically wants to go.

so far every team has caved - let's see how Portland and Philly deals with it. Im predicting both players get traded to the team they want eventually

It would neat to see Portland hold strong. It really doesn't change their time line. It does hurt not to get assets back and some cap relief though.

Portland should absolutely wait this out as long as possible. They have all leverage here. Let the season start, let teams that want Dame get antsy and just hold firm.

This is a lost season for Portland with a chance at the first overall pick when it's over. There is no compelling reason to cave into his agent's demands.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Ok let’s do this:

Heat get - Lillard, Nurkic, Covington
Clippers get - Harden
Sixers get - Lowry, Herro, Duncan Robinson
Blazers get - Mann, Tobias Harris, Morris, plus three 1sts from Mia

ESPN trade machine says - it’s successful!

All the haters say - it’s beautiful!

No way for the sixers. Taking on robinson for 2 expirings and getting no other useable assets is a no go.

I guess they could flip herro for a pick but wouldn’t really be too interesting for them

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I hope Portland stands firm here even though I doubt they will. If Dame wanted to play in Miami he shouldn’t have signed that big *** contract with Portland. It’s bad when players abuse their positions like this, especially when demanding to go to only one team and kneecapping their present team.

Nobody is ever signing in Portland as a marquee free agent anyways so they should tell Dame to report in September or he can sit out. This is dumb.

I agree but this is the new NBA - stars get their money then dictate where they want to go. It kills trade values but it has worked so far - not sure how the NBA can stop this when a player can just say they dont want to play elsewhere.

Im thrilled the Nets got the pkg they did for KD considering he pulled the same move.

I wouldn’t really say that it kills trade values.

 

[General Malaise]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He is a really good movement shooter when he is on and that is a super valuable skill. He can’t play defense and gets cooked on the playoffs, but for a non-top 8 team he would still be useful and not such a bad salary.

Though mostly he is mentioned because he is matching salary the heat are most willing to part with.

 

[Mister CIA]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

Yikes.

 

[Yo Mama]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He was much better in the playoffs, but still not worth his contract.

 

[scoobus]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

How are you from deep?

 

[General Malaise]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

How are you from deep?

Terrible. But I'll getcha more than 1.6 rebounds a game. 100% junk yard dog mentality with no other discernable skills.

Surprised Udonis Halstatt isn't being used as a trade chip from desperate Miami.

 

[Kev4029]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

 

[thecatch]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

 

[Deamon]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

Yep, only 29. Drew Timme was Nerlens' high school coach.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

How are you from deep?

Terrible. But I'll getcha more than 1.6 rebounds a game. 100% junk yard dog mentality with no other discernable skills.

Surprised Udonis Halstatt isn't being used as a trade chip from desperate Miami.

I'll take the under

 

[the moops]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

 

[msudaisy26]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

The Heat are a well coached team. If he was capable of doing that he would be for them.

 

[identikit]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Big Malaise

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

The Heat are a well coached team. If he was capable of doing that he would be for them.

he is capable of doing it, but the heat don't want to play him that much because he screws up their defense,especially in the playoffs, and they have the highest of aspirations so they don't want to have him out there that much.

He could do it if given the opportunity again and could have that opportunity on the Wizards or the Hornets or the Jazz or the Pacers or any team that doesn't have defense as a particular overall concern at this point in time.

 

[General Malaise]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

He has three years and nearly $60m left on his deal. Terrible contract.

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Big Malaise

Please....The Albino Manatee.

 

[Anarchy99]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

 

[the moops]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Anarchy99]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

The problem will be, he would have to go to a team that can roll out 4 plus defenders to make up for his defensive liabilities while still needing a guy that is mostly a three-point specialist (even if he can do so on the move vs. being a spot up shooter). I don't think he can really be on the court with another player that doesn't do much defensively . . . opponents would pick that combination apart. On top of that, his inflated contract could very well turn off a team at the spending apron. There is probably a decent fit for him somewhere, but I am not sure how many teams would be a good match.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

The problem will be, he would have to go to a team that can roll out 4 plus defenders to make up for his defensive liabilities while still needing a guy that is mostly a three-point specialist (even if he can do so on the move vs. being a spot up shooter). I don't think he can really be on the court with another player that doesn't do much defensively . . . opponents would pick that combination apart. On top of that, his inflated contract could very well turn off a team at the spending apron. There is probably a decent fit for him somewhere, but I am not sure how many teams would be a good match.

again, it depends on what team's aspirations are. a serious contender, no, but that's not the majority of the teams in the league. the majority of the teams in the league can survive the regular season with him if he is hitting enough shots. i agree that he is not a guy most teams would want if they are trying to build a championship team, but realistically, that's just not where a lot of teams are. i don't think we are necessarily disagreeing on what he is or his value in a vacuum, just the number of teams that would actually be willing to live with that. everyone is not the celtics...

 

[Kev4029]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

The problem will be, he would have to go to a team that can roll out 4 plus defenders to make up for his defensive liabilities while still needing a guy that is mostly a three-point specialist (even if he can do so on the move vs. being a spot up shooter). I don't think he can really be on the court with another player that doesn't do much defensively . . . opponents would pick that combination apart. On top of that, his inflated contract could very well turn off a team at the spending apron. There is probably a decent fit for him somewhere, but I am not sure how many teams would be a good match.

again, it depends on what team's aspirations are. a serious contender, no, but that's not the majority of the teams in the league. the majority of the teams in the league can survive the regular season with him if he is hitting enough shots. i agree that he is not a guy most teams would want if they are trying to build a championship team, but realistically, that's just not where a lot of teams are. i don't think we are necessarily disagreeing on what he is or his value in a vacuum, just the number of teams that would actually be willing to live with that. everyone is not the celtics...

Honestly, I think he is a little more useful to Miami than most teams, especially in the regular season. He does okay in their zone defense - he's smart enough and knows where to be plus he is fairly tall/long, which hides his athletic shortcomings a bit.

Even in the regular season, he gets targeted on defense because he is so terrible plus he is pasty white which seems to draw extra attention to his lack of defensive ability. Beyond the Heat, I think he would probably fit best on a rebuilding team that needs some spacing to develop their young guys (like Portland), or a legitimate team that has an ace rim defending center and has some similarly bad salary to move (Clippers or Cavs, maybe?) .

 

[Jayrod]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

 

[Jayrod]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

The Heat don't beat the Celtics without Duncan Robinson in the ECF.

He was a difference maker for them and gave Boston fits.

Not sure why he was so underutilized by the Heat during the season, but he was in the doghouse and had several DNP-CD games.

 

[the moops]

Feel like he can still play 25 minutes a night for most teams in the league and will put up 15 points on 40% shooting from three on good volume.

Robinson is a so-so role player. He's averaged 25 to 31 minutes in 3 seasons and his high scoring output was 13.5 ppg. His career net rating is even. Across 281 games, his VORP is +2.0. His career PER is 11.1 (15.0 is average). His WS/48 is 0.89.

Sure, his career 3P% is 40%, but he doesn't really provide much more than that. If a team is only looking for a guy to patrol the 3P line and bomb away on kick outs, then he might be an option. He's got 3/$60M left on his contract. Robinson's career numbers are slightly worse than Grayson Allen's . . . who gets $9M and change per year.

you're underestimating Robinson's ability to shoot on the move and the stress that causes on the defense. He is worth more than just a standstill shooter who can hit open 3s. I'm not saying he's worth his contract, but he can play a bigger role on offense if you are willing to live with his defense.

Agreed. He was an absolute menace for defenses a couple years ago. His movement and quick release were very difficult to deal with, even if he did give most of it back on the defensive side of the ball.

The problem will be, he would have to go to a team that can roll out 4 plus defenders to make up for his defensive liabilities while still needing a guy that is mostly a three-point specialist (even if he can do so on the move vs. being a spot up shooter). I don't think he can really be on the court with another player that doesn't do much defensively . . . opponents would pick that combination apart. On top of that, his inflated contract could very well turn off a team at the spending apron. There is probably a decent fit for him somewhere, but I am not sure how many teams would be a good match.

again, it depends on what team's aspirations are. a serious contender, no, but that's not the majority of the teams in the league. the majority of the teams in the league can survive the regular season with him if he is hitting enough shots. i agree that he is not a guy most teams would want if they are trying to build a championship team, but realistically, that's just not where a lot of teams are. i don't think we are necessarily disagreeing on what he is or his value in a vacuum, just the number of teams that would actually be willing to live with that. everyone is not the celtics...

Honestly, I think he is a little more useful to Miami than most teams, especially in the regular season. He does okay in their zone defense - he's smart enough and knows where to be plus he is fairly tall/long, which hides his athletic shortcomings a bit.

Even in the regular season, he gets targeted on defense because he is so terrible plus he is pasty white which seems to draw extra attention to his lack of defensive ability. Beyond the Heat, I think he would probably fit best on a rebuilding team that needs some spacing to develop their young guys (like Portland), or a legitimate team that has an ace rim defending center and has some similarly bad salary to move (Clippers or Cavs, maybe?) .

It's also that if he is only shooting 33% from three, he really isn't playable because he doesn't do much else. He needs to be 40% + on difficult and high volume to make an impact

 

[need2know]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

yes its not even worth comparing. maxey just shows so much more with the eye test. really hoping harden gets moved so maxey can play more

 

[the moops]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

yes its not even worth comparing. maxey just shows so much more with the eye test. really hoping harden gets moved so maxey can play more

Of course it is worth comparing. They are very similar overall players. Excellent offensive players, terrible defensive players. Only 10 months separating them in age. Both combo guards. Both play roughly 34/35 minutes per game.

If Hsrden moves, you won't see Maxey play substantially more minutes. Maybe one or two minutes more per game.

 

[need2know]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

yes its not even worth comparing. maxey just shows so much more with the eye test. really hoping harden gets moved so maxey can play more

Of course it is worth comparing. They are very similar overall players. Excellent offensive players, terrible defensive players. Only 10 months separating them in age. Both combo guards. Both play roughly 34/35 minutes per game.

If Hsrden moves, you won't see Maxey play substantially more minutes. Maybe one or two minutes more per game.

not more minutes. should have said he will have the ball more. he wont play iso ball every other possession like harden

 

[FatMax]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

Monty can never have too many Kentucky guys.

 

[the moops]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

Monty can never have too many Kentucky guys.

Monty?

 

[Anarchy99]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

yes its not even worth comparing. maxey just shows so much more with the eye test. really hoping harden gets moved so maxey can play more

Of course it is worth comparing. They are very similar overall players. Excellent offensive players, terrible defensive players. Only 10 months separating them in age. Both combo guards. Both play roughly 34/35 minutes per game.

If Hsrden moves, you won't see Maxey play substantially more minutes. Maybe one or two minutes more per game.

Career Numbers:

Robinson
21.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 114 ORtg, 114 Drtg (per 100 possessions)
11.1 PER, 0.89 WS.48, 2.0 VORP in 281 games (Averaged 26.1 minutes per game)
Currently on a 3 year, $60M contract


Maxey
26.7 points, 4.6 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 119 ORtg, 114 DRtg (per 100 possessions)
16.2 PER, .125 WS/48, 3.2 VORP in 196 games (Averaged 28.6 minutes per game)
Currently on a 1 year, $4.3M contract

Not trying to make a point . . . only adding comparables to discuss.

 

[the moops]

Not trying to make a point . . . only adding comparables to discuss.

If you are arguing that Maxey is better than Duncan Robinson I don't think there will be any debate there

 

[Navin Johnson]

I'll turn this around (and say what Lebatard said yesterday) who would be better than Herro in a trade for dame from any other team? Maxey? GTF out of here.

I like Herro, certainly more than most but Maxey is absolutely better than him and has a way better contract. It’s not really disputable.

I feel like Herro is more of a one-on-one offensive threat, but all factors included Maxey is a better player AND a better value.

yes its not even worth comparing. maxey just shows so much more with the eye test. really hoping harden gets moved so maxey can play more

Of course it is worth comparing. They are very similar overall players. Excellent offensive players, terrible defensive players. Only 10 months separating them in age. Both combo guards. Both play roughly 34/35 minutes per game.

If Hsrden moves, you won't see Maxey play substantially more minutes. Maybe one or two minutes more per game.

Career Numbers:

Robinson
21.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 114 ORtg, 114 Drtg (per 100 possessions)
11.1 PER, 0.89 WS.48, 2.0 VORP in 281 games (Averaged 26.1 minutes per game)
Currently on a 3 year, $60M contract


Maxey
26.7 points, 4.6 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 119 ORtg, 114 DRtg (per 100 possessions)
16.2 PER, .125 WS/48, 3.2 VORP in 196 games (Averaged 28.6 minutes per game)
Currently on a 1 year, $4.3M contract

Not trying to make a point . . . only adding comparables to discuss.

Think they are comparing him to Herro though

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

Monty can never have too many Kentucky guys.

Monty?

i assume he means Monte McNair

 

[Anarchy99]

Career Numbers:

Robinson
21.0 points, 5.2 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 1.6 turnovers, 114 ORtg, 114 Drtg (per 100 possessions)
11.1 PER, 0.89 WS.48, 2.0 VORP in 281 games (Averaged 26.1 minutes per game)
Currently on a 3 year, $60M contract


Maxey
26.7 points, 4.6 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.5 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 119 ORtg, 114 DRtg (per 100 possessions)
16.2 PER, .125 WS/48, 3.2 VORP in 196 games (Averaged 28.6 minutes per game)
Currently on a 1 year, $4.3M contract

Not trying to make a point . . . only adding comparables to discuss.

If we add Herro into the mix . . .

27.8 points, 7.7 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.4 turnovers, 106 ORtg, 113 DRtg (per 100 possessions)
14.6 PER, .066 WS/48, 3.5 VORP in 242 games (Averaged 31.5 minutes per game)
Currently on a 4 year, $120M contract

Again, just trying to a baseline of comparison for these guys.

 

[FatMax]

Nerlens Noel is somehow only 29? When I went to look him up today I thought he was like 34. Appears he may have the body of a 44 year old.

Monty can never have too many Kentucky guys.

Monty?

i assume he means Monte McNair

Yeah, I don't know why I keep misspelling it.

 

[Gatorman]

I'll ask a dumb question....

Duncan Robinson is 30, averaged 6.4 points and 1.6 rebounds more than I did last season. Why is he bandied around as a trade chip? Bad, expiring contract?

Ok, I'll give you a somewhat smart answer.

Duncan is on a bad contract, and Miami basically replaced him with Struss in the lineup bc struss can do much of what Duncan can do but he also can play D. Once Herro and Oladipo got hurt in the playoffs, Duncan was put back in the lineup and showed some offensive game that was more diverse than just spot up threes, but yeah he's not a great defender and the Refs always seem to think he fouled whomever he is guarding. (He does "open up the floor" in Miami's "Pace and Space" game but the Heat brought back Josh Richardson who was the "Duncan" of the Pre-Jimmy Heat)

That being said, Miami cannot trade 4 first rounders by their lonesome for Dame bc in the NBA salaries have to match up. So, of the players Miami can (or better said "are willing") to trade basically equal Lowry, Duncan, Herro, and then Caleb Martin, Haywood Highsmith, and the 2 guys on their rookie deals. So some combo of that has to go for Dame's huge contract to make the numbers work. Going back to Maxey for a second. Yes, he is on a better deal at the moment, but if you think next year he ain't getting a "Herro Style" contract then not sure what to tell you. SO when playing the salary cap game, Maxeys numbers are too small to trade for dame without another big contract in the mix, and oh by the way the cost of having him on the team is going to go up in a year.

So there is an impasse at the moment. The Suns are pissed bc they have no wiggle room for a better deal bc Dame Hamstrung them. Dame is pissed bc the GM of the Suns promised to get him guys to try and make a run in the west and instead is in Rebuild mode. Miami is, interestingly, not pissed, just waiting for this to play out, and Dan Lebatard was wondering why Woj was reporting one thing and another NBA guy (Schaum? Dan mentioned his name on his show but I don't know who he is) was reporting the opposite.

The Heat are basically not going to bid against themselves and Portland is hoping that Dame relents in his "I only want Miami" position. Good luck with that in todays NBA.

 

[General Malaise]

Good luck? With what? Portland has absolutely no incentive to trade Dame to Miami and only Miami. What, free agents won't come to Portland because Portland didn't accommodate Dame when Dame wanted it? Portland should hold out until offers start coming in. If Dame pouts his way out of here, who cares? He is the one that asked out. By asking out, Portland can now commit 100% to the young guys and let them get minutes. You think they're upset about that?

There are going to be other teams entering the fray, especially the longer this saga drags out. August is a dead period and we're knocking on that door. The leverage lives on this side of the Mississippi River.