2023 Detroit Lions: 2-1 Falcons fly into Detroit and get shot down. (11 Viewers)

[Interseptopus]

Lemme guess. Packer fan?

Good guess. We must thank Mr. Brew for taking time away from riling up Giants fans to comment in this thread, yes?

This week I'm also a Lion's fan

And it's Doctor. Not Mister. Thanks    And finally, I haven't been anywhere close to a giant fan thread... and I didn't really rile anyone up in here over the last week, so I don't really get the point you're trying to make. I'm hardly one who goes from thread to thread trying to rile up my week's opponent.  I direct you to my recent activity
The only fans I cannot stand are Pat fans with rose colored glasses, Philly fans, and Imthescientist type seahawk fans. I think I'm in the same boat as most of the NFL and this message board on all 3 of those categories. 

If you care to add anything other than picking an e-fight with me I'd be happy to discuss. As you can see, I like discussing statistics. Otherwise, I'd like to direct you to a quote from Mr. Joe Bryant:
 

3. Be Excellent to One Another.

Have a great rest of the day Mr. Man! 

 

[Hooper31]

But when someone else makes this remark it's inflammatory

In my opinion you have an axe to grind with Seattle and I don't want to engage you with whatever issues you have there. I think it's silly and a waste of time. My best guess is it developed because of the crazy games Seattle and Green Bay have had in the past. If you want to discuss those issues please do it with someone else in another thread. Thanks for understanding, Dr. 

 

[Mt. Man]

I could see Tate having a big game. If Stafford is willing to take all the short throws Seattle will give up I could see them moving the ball well. Also, Seattle has been inconsistent with teams that utilize their backs out of the backfield on screens and such. 

How Detroit executes screens might be the key of the game. It was a really good weapon for them when Riddick was healthy, but since then has been... lacking. As BobbyLayne rightfully pointed out, Stafford won't be afraid to take short throws, as that fits into their existing offense. It's a question of how often they can chain enough of them together, but then again isn't it always?

Despite some... odd calls (*cough* being facemasked = 15 yard loss for the Lions, no OPI on Dez, no DPI last night *cough*), penalties weren't as haunting as they've been for the Lions. Or, at least, tied for 23rd (for accepted penalties) feels a LOT lower than Lions fans are used to. Of course, the 12th man effect will likely add to problems there, though the Lions had more penalties at home than on the road, so *shrug*.

 

[Interseptopus]

In my opinion you have an axe to grind with Seattle and I don't want to engage you with whatever issues you have there. I think it's silly and a waste of time. My best guess is it developed because of the crazy games Seattle and Green Bay have had in the past. If you want to discuss those issues please do it with someone else in another thread. Thanks for understanding, Dr. 

I'd love to discuss how Wilson is a strength for Seattle when he's been having his worst statistical year of his career

 

[Hooper31]

I'd love to discuss how Wilson is a strength for Seattle when he's been having his worst statistical year of his career

I decided to look it up. Wilson is 14th in passer rating this year, not 21st. Wilson is the same guy he's always been. The cast around him has changed, but he's the same player. He was hampered earlier by injury, but that's not the case now. I have no interest in arguing this with you. dOMERjOHN was way better at this when he made the Shark Pool go crazy telling everyone that Jerry Rice wasn't a HOFer. Now please, let it go?

 

[drfeelgood]

Furthermore, to address the link you provided, I specifically offered an apology in that thread at some point. 

You responded to massraider and said, "I guess I owe an apology for assuming the worst in this poster." You didn't directly apologize to Hooper. You should treat people better no matter what you assume.

 

[Interseptopus]

I decided to look it up. Wilson is 14th in passer rating this year, not 21st. Wilson is the same guy he's always been. The cast around him has changed, but he's the same player. He was hampered earlier by injury, but that's not the case now. I have no interest in arguing this with you. dOMERjOHN was way better at this when he made the Shark Pool go crazy telling everyone that Jerry Rice wasn't a HOFer. Now please, let it go?

I went to NFL.com and arranged passing leaders by QB rating. I discounted Punters, RBs, and WRs and I got 21... Kirk Cousins is 14
Link

Oddly enough, he is right behind Stafford. I thought Stafford had a better season than that. 

 

[Hooper31]

I went to NFL.com and arranged passing leaders by QB rating. I discounted Punters, RBs, and WRs and I got 21... Kirk Cousins is 14
Link

NFL.com is an awful site. Nearly impossible to navigate. Try either of these. He's 14th in passer rating at 92.6

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2016/seasontype/2

 

[BobbyLayne]

Will the Lions let Riley Reiff walk in free agency?

(Yes the Vikings are desperate enough that even Reiff could be an improvement)

I hope so.

He had a better year at RT -he's not talented enough to protect the blindside - and he's pretty durable, with I think only 2 or 3 games missed in 5 years. But I think if we can upgrade in the draft.

Last year was Quinn's first and I think you'd have to objectively say it was pretty decent. Decker could be an anchor for the next 8-10 years. Robinson is gonna be a pro bowler IMO, he's really disruptive. Glasgow doesn't have great size but is both good and versatile. So that's 3/3 for rookie lineman starters. Killebrew has been very effective in special packages though I'm not sure if he has the speed to be a great safety. The G and DT taken in the 5th/6th rounds need development, as does the 3rd QB (who probably becomes the backup next year), and the rookie LS spent the year on IR. Overall I like how it went, and I'm confident we'll find more good lineman next year.

Consensus among the beat writers is Reiff  and DE Devin Taylor both walk. RG Warford will be a priority I think. We have a couple DTs who will be UFA but we're deep there. Who knows what will happen with Boldin (going into his 15th year, turns 37 in Oct.)

 

[Hooper31]

RG Warford will be a priority I think.

I think Seattle targets Zeitler in FA, but Warford could also be a target. Glowinski and Ifedi have been pretty bad. 

 

[Interseptopus]

NFL.com is an awful site. Nearly impossible to navigate. Try either of these. He's 14th in passer rating at 92.6

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2016/seasontype/2

good to know. if you look at the names he's around... Tannehill, Alex Smith, Dalton... these are QBS that manage games. Stafford is there too but he's the main reason Detroit is in the playoffs. you can interchange those qbs off each other's teams and not see much of a difference. there are a lot of QBs like Wilson who have come and gone in the league. qbs who manage games well and let their defense win the games.

my point is not to pick a fight about wilson. I just don't think Wilson is a strength for seattle. it's definitely not a weakness but not the first thing I'd mention when talking strengths. 

Seattle's strength is their defense. when they hold teams to 20 or less they will likely win. they average 18.3 points allowed per game. Detroit is averaging 21.5. I think if Detroit can score over 20 they win this game, and the Lions haven't scored below 20 many times this season.

granted seattle averages 22.something per game offensively. they just can't run the ball and their best threat almost had his leg fell off... to paraphrase Lloyd Christmas: "we got no running back, we got no OL.... our wrs legs are falling off!!!" 

 

[Biabreakable]

I hope so.

He had a better year at RT -he's not talented enough to protect the blindside - and he's pretty durable, with I think only 2 or 3 games missed in 5 years. But I think if we can upgrade in the draft.

Last year was Quinn's first and I think you'd have to objectively say it was pretty decent. Decker could be an anchor for the next 8-10 years. Robinson is gonna be a pro bowler IMO, he's really disruptive. Glasgow doesn't have great size but is both good and versatile. So that's 3/3 for rookie lineman starters. Killebrew has been very effective in special packages though I'm not sure if he has the speed to be a great safety. The G and DT taken in the 5th/6th rounds need development, as does the 3rd QB (who probably becomes the backup next year), and the rookie LS spent the year on IR. Overall I like how it went, and I'm confident we'll find more good lineman next year.

Consensus among the beat writers is Reiff  and DE Devin Taylor both walk. RG Warford will be a priority I think. We have a couple DTs who will be UFA but we're deep there. Who knows what will happen with Boldin (going into his 15th year, turns 37 in Oct.)

I recall that being the evaluation of Reiff as NFL prospect as well, that he was projected to be a RT but not a LT. I think that has shown itself to be true.

I might actually like the Vikings to re-sign Kalil over Reiff even though Kalil isn't much better than average either. Not really that many options at tackle in the 2017 free agent market.

I think Warford has been the best lineman pretty much from his rookie year forward. He does a good job as a run blocker anyhow, and good enough in pass protection.

I wish the Vikings could find 3 rookie linemen in one draft. I would be happy with one good one at this point. 

Killibrew is more of a in the box or safety/linebacker tweener. He can have a role in the defense, but I don't think he is an every down starter. I recall looking at him and a lot of safeties last season.

 

[BobbyLayne]

This doesn't account for in season transactions, but when the 53-man roster was set after PS, the Lions had the 5th highest roster turnover rate year over year in terms of snaps lost. On offense they had the 24th smallest snaps lost (e.g., 8 teams had more turnover), on defense they rank 30th in fewest number of snaps lost. Overall, 28th - only 4 teams had more turnover to start the year.

Unquestionably they went through this season better equipped than any Lions team in recent memory to deal with the inevitable injuries. Have to give Quinn a lot of credit in building a roster that was ready for the next man up. Significant injuries at RB, O-line, DE, LB, DBs. Obviously we had some serious CB issues when both Diggs went down & Slay missed time, but simultaneously we had incredible depth at S. Pretty solid work on the latter -  we lost Iheddigbo & Abdul-Quddus, but IMO Bush, Killebrew & Wison were solid, especially on third down during the 8 Ws in 9 games stretch.

 

[Interseptopus]

This doesn't account for in season transactions, but when the 53-man roster was set after PS, the Lions had the 5th highest roster turnover rate year over year in terms of snaps lost. On offense they had the 24th smallest snaps lost (e.g., 8 teams had more turnover), on defense they rank 30th in fewest number of snaps lost. Overall, 28th - only 4 teams had more turnover to start the year.

Unquestionably they went through this season better equipped than any Lions team in recent memory to deal with the inevitable injuries. Have to give Quinn a lot of credit in building a roster that was ready for the next man up. Significant injuries at RB, O-line, DE, LB, DBs. Obviously we had some serious CB issues when both Diggs went down & Slay missed time, but simultaneously we had incredible depth at S. Pretty solid work on the latter -  we lost Iheddigbo & Abdul-Quddus, but IMO Bush, Killebrew & Wison were solid, especially on third down during the 8 Ws in 9 games stretch.

Lions are building a good core of guys. they have a solid defense in the works, built to withstand injuries. my limited view I'd say of they can land another shut down corner they'd be pretty tough to beat

 

[Hooper31]

there are a lot of QBs like Wilson who have come and gone in the league.

This is a team game. I dislike the idea of rating QBs by wins. They stand on their own merit IMO. Using his 56-23-1 record as a measure is deceptive even though no other QB has ever posted that many wins in the first five years of his career. Actually, Matt Ryan had 56 as well, but not a tie like Wilson had. Ryan followed up his first five seasons with only 4 and 6 wins. I feel fairly confident that long as Wilson on IR over the next two seasons he'll hold the record for most wins in a six and seven seasons too. 

Wilson just completed his fifth season. He's made all 80 starts. Using passer rating as a metric there's only one QB in the history of the NFL with a higher passer rating. Just one. LINK

Come and gone? That's just dismissive of a player that's posted historically significant statistics. 

 

[flipcuplegend]

I hope so.

He had a better year at RT -he's not talented enough to protect the blindside - and he's pretty durable, with I think only 2 or 3 games missed in 5 years. But I think if we can upgrade in the draft.

Last year was Quinn's first and I think you'd have to objectively say it was pretty decent. Decker could be an anchor for the next 8-10 years. Robinson is gonna be a pro bowler IMO, he's really disruptive. Glasgow doesn't have great size but is both good and versatile. So that's 3/3 for rookie lineman starters. Killebrew has been very effective in special packages though I'm not sure if he has the speed to be a great safety. The G and DT taken in the 5th/6th rounds need development, as does the 3rd QB (who probably becomes the backup next year), and the rookie LS spent the year on IR. Overall I like how it went, and I'm confident we'll find more good lineman next year.

Consensus among the beat writers is Reiff  and DE Devin Taylor both walk. RG Warford will be a priority I think. We have a couple DTs who will be UFA but we're deep there. Who knows what will happen with Boldin (going into his 15th year, turns 37 in Oct.)

I feel extremely confident as a Lions fan knowing Bob Quinn is running our team and not Matt Millen or Martin Mayhew.  The draft was a hit in my opinion with not just locking up our starting LT and DT for the next 8 years in the first two rounds but ALSO a starter on the O-line in Glasgow whether it is LG or C (Swanson played better this season).  We're best off letting Reiff walk and signing someone in FA as a priority along with resigning Warford and Boldin.  This years drafts first two picks I'm guessing will focus on CB or LB. 

What I'm curious about is IF Quinn will stick with Caldwell or promote Teryl Austin to head coach or possibly bring in McDaniels.

Regarding the wild card game, I can tell you from watching a ton of Hawks games while living on the west coast, Seattle gets a ton of calls playing at home.  Their secondary gets away with a lot of contact and it's one thing they will continue to do until the NFL makes (if) pass interference challengeable.  Outside of that I like this matchup a ton particularly for Detroits defensive line vs Seattle's offensive line.  Seattle is great at stopping the run but that doesn't really matter given the Lions are horrid at it and more than likely to throw a lot.  Seattle just lost Lockett who was coming along strong, Slay can lock up Baldwin however Jimmy Graham will absolutely destroy Levy.  It'll be interesting to see if they use more of Killibrew to cover him instead.

 

[Interseptopus]

This is a team game. I dislike the idea of rating QBs by wins. They stand on their own merit IMO. Using his 56-23-1 record as a measure is deceptive even though no other QB has ever posted that many wins in the first five years of his career. Actually, Matt Ryan had 56 as well, but not a tie like Wilson had. Ryan followed up his first five seasons with only 4 and 6 wins. I feel fairly confident that long as Wilson on IR over the next two seasons he'll hold the record for most wins in a six and seven seasons too. 

Wilson just completed his fifth season. He's made all 80 starts. Using passer rating as a metric there's only one QB in the history of the NFL with a higher passer rating. Just one. LINK

Come and gone? That's just dismissive of a player that's posted historically significant statistics. 

yes he had a very good start to his career but he has declined in play this year and even last season to some degree. he's not as good today as he was in his first year or three. 

he's not going to win games by himself, but seattle will do well as long as he doesn't lose games by himself. he's already under performing to his contract. but we can continue this in a Wilson thread if u like. I think in the end we will agree to disagree and let things play out how they will. one will be right and one wrong at some point 

 

[5Rings]

Regarding the wild card game, I can tell you from watching a ton of Hawks games while living on the west coast, Seattle gets a ton of calls playing at home.  Their secondary gets away with a lot of contact and it's one thing they will continue to do until the NFL makes (if) pass interference challengeable.  

Great point, the 12th man usually comes through with at least a few game changing calls--or no calls--at home.

Fwiw, I think Wilson is the difference in this game.  He's a playoff tested elite QB and would only rank Brady and Rodgers above him amongst playoff teams.  IMO he's carried the offense this year.  Couple that with my belief that the Lion pass rush is not good enough to take advantage of a poor line, and it's all Seattle.

Hawks 31, Lions 19

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I've seen this comment a few times. Earl Thomas is important to the Seattle defense, but I wouldn't call him the "heart" so much. He's certainly not the emotional leader. That's Kam Chancellor. Thomas is perhaps a more important element in their overall scheme. Not having to worry about being deep down the middle of the field is a luxury most teams don't have. 

Earl Thomas has been a great player and a class guy to my recollection.  Sort of a Tommy Davis type of guy, but at safety.  There are some guys, Darrel Green, Sam Mills, Bruce Mathews who seem to bring stability to their units, to make others better while being beyond solid themselves.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I decided to look it up. Wilson is 14th in passer rating this year, not 21st. Wilson is the same guy he's always been. The cast around him has changed, but he's the same player. He was hampered earlier by injury, but that's not the case now. I have no interest in arguing this with you. dOMERjOHN was way better at this when he made the Shark Pool go crazy telling everyone that Jerry Rice wasn't a HOFer. Now please, let it go?

I have to like a guy who remembers the old-timers.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

good to know. if you look at the names he's around... Tannehill, Alex Smith, Dalton... these are QBS that manage games. Stafford is there too but he's the main reason Detroit is in the playoffs. you can interchange those qbs off each other's teams and not see much of a difference. there are a lot of QBs like Wilson who have come and gone in the league. qbs who manage games well and let their defense win the games.

my point is not to pick a fight about wilson. I just don't think Wilson is a strength for seattle. it's definitely not a weakness but not the first thing I'd mention when talking strengths. 

Seattle's strength is their defense. when they hold teams to 20 or less they will likely win. they average 18.3 points allowed per game. Detroit is averaging 21.5. I think if Detroit can score over 20 they win this game, and the Lions haven't scored below 20 many times this season.

granted seattle averages 22.something per game offensively. they just can't run the ball and their best threat almost had his leg fell off... to paraphrase Lloyd Christmas: "we got no running back, we got no OL.... our wrs legs are falling off!!!" 

Well he does have mobility, intelligence, and positive playoff experience.  Now th experience is an intangible and I know some do not place much stock in such things, me, I do.

 

[Da Guru]

I feel extremely confident as a Lions fan knowing Bob Quinn is running our team and not Matt Millen or Martin Mayhew.  The draft was a hit in my opinion with not just locking up our starting LT and DT for the next 8 years in the first two rounds but ALSO a starter on the O-line in Glasgow whether it is LG or C (Swanson played better this season).  We're best off letting Reiff walk and signing someone in FA as a priority along with resigning Warford and Boldin.  This years drafts first two picks I'm guessing will focus on CB or LB. 

What I'm curious about is IF Quinn will stick with Caldwell or promote Teryl Austin to head coach or possibly bring in McDaniels.

Regarding the wild card game, I can tell you from watching a ton of Hawks games while living on the west coast, Seattle gets a ton of calls playing at home.  Their secondary gets away with a lot of contact and it's one thing they will continue to do until the NFL makes (if) pass interference challengeable.  Outside of that I like this matchup a ton particularly for Detroits defensive line vs Seattle's offensive line.  Seattle is great at stopping the run but that doesn't really matter given the Lions are horrid at it and more than likely to throw a lot.  Seattle just lost Lockett who was coming along strong, Slay can lock up Baldwin however Jimmy Graham will absolutely destroy Levy.  It'll be interesting to see if they use more of Killibrew to cover him instead.

A win and Caldwell returns for sure.  A loss and it is 50-50.

 

[jon_mx]

A win and Caldwell returns for sure.  A loss and it is 50-50.

I would have guess Caldwell is safe.  The Lions overperformed based on talent.  This is not a playoff team.  But then again there are very few good teams and no great teams, so it is all up in the air at who wins.  

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Lions 2017 schedule:

Home: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Browns, Steelers, Cardinals. 

Away: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Bengals, Ravens, Giants. 

I know next season is a long way away and a lot will change, but at first glance it looks brutal.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Lions 2017 schedule:

Home: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Browns, Steelers, Cardinals. 

Away: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Bengals, Ravens, Giants. 

I know next season is a long way away and a lot will change, but at first glance it looks brutal.

I get to see them two years in a row.

The Lions in the Stafford era feels a bit like the Fontes-Ross Lions. From 1991-2000 they went 88-72, with six winning seasons and five playoff appearances. But they rarely could maintain momentum; it seemed like they would play a 3rd/4th/5th place schedule, have a winning season, then follow that up with a losing season playing a 1st/2nd place schedule. To wit: odd years in that decade, 49-31, even years, 39-41.

Similarities: most of those Lions teams were built around a superstar & the coach was considered something of a buffoon.

Differences: QB is way more important than RB, history has shown Wayne was an actual actual buffoon, and Quinn.

We're a bit premature on the latter but a couple/three things I've seen give me hope. He had a good first draft, he is really focused on depth, and he's not married to any decision - he'll cut bait in a heartbeat, admit he was wrong & move on. Ridley wasn't the only vet FA signing that didn't work out, but under other regimes we would have kept him over ZZ or Swaggy.

Oh, and that schedule is not brutal. 10 games against teams that lost 8 or more, zero games against a top four (12 wins or more) franchise. We're playing nine 8-11 win (mediocre to good) teams, some of whom will have losing 2017 seasons, and not every team will bounce back to be playoff caliber next year. It's easy to look at that & say NO MIN CAR BAL ARI are all really good teams; in reality their rosters have as many warts as everyone else in this mediocre league.

 

[Da Guru]

Lions 2017 schedule:

Home: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Browns, Steelers, Cardinals. 

Away: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Bengals, Ravens, Giants. 

I know next season is a long way away and a lot will change, but at first glance it looks brutal.

Be lucky to go 4-4 at home. Road looks to be 3-5 at best.

 

[Interseptopus]

Well he does have mobility, intelligence, and positive playoff experience.  Now th experience is an intangible and I know some do not place much stock in such things, me, I do.

I would agree with this. However, a lot of QBs have positive playoff experience. Kaep has positive playoff experience... Wilson's stats are actually not that much better than Kaep's when you look at QB rating and TD:INT ratio. Yes, there are intangibles that do matter in the outcome of a game. I'm just saying if someone asked me what was Seattle's strengths, the first thing out of my mouth wouldn't be Wilson. In fact it'd probably be the 4th or 5th, or I'd consider it a neutrality with a slight edge to Seattle given his experience and command of the offense. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I would agree with this. However, a lot of QBs have positive playoff experience. Kaep has positive playoff experience... Wilson's stats are actually not that much better than Kaep's when you look at QB rating and TD:INT ratio. Yes, there are intangibles that do matter in the outcome of a game. I'm just saying if someone asked me what was Seattle's strengths, the first thing out of my mouth wouldn't be Wilson. In fact it'd probably be the 4th or 5th, or I'd consider it a neutrality with a slight edge to Seattle given his experience and command of the offense. 

I do not disagree.  When playing in Seattle I respect the ability of Wilson.  His stats this year may not fully reflect the talent he is, that happens for a variety of reasons.  That said, when I worry about Seattle, in Seattle, I think of suffocating, opportunistic, hard hitting defense and communication difficulties associated with crowd noise.  For a time I thought of a punishing run game, then Wilson's abilities, not so much anymore on the run game.  But I do like what Wilson brings.

I have not seen more than 3 Seahawk games this year.  Given that, my opinions on them are not particularly well-informed.  Still, my opinion of them is that they have lost effectiveness in their O-line and have lost some discipline on a great defense.  They are a dangerous team, capable of beating anyone, but they are also erratic.  What I know is this, as a Packer fan I am glad we are not traveling there this week.  I don't necessarily think the game we saw a couple of weeks ago would be repeated there this week. I do think the loss of Earl Thomas is a huge loss.  I also wonder which Bennett will show up, the intense, game-changing rusher, or the off scheme penalty machine.

 

[Interseptopus]

I do not disagree.  When playing in Seattle I respect the ability of Wilson.  His stats this year may not fully reflect the talent he is, that happens for a variety of reasons.  That said, when I worry about Seattle, in Seattle, I think of suffocating, opportunistic, hard hitting defense and communication difficulties associated with crowd noise.  For a time I thought of a punishing run game, then Wilson's abilities, not so much anymore on the run game.  But I do like what Wilson brings.

I have not seen more than 3 Seahawk games this year.  Given that, my opinions on them are not particularly well-informed.  Still, my opinion of them is that they have lost effectiveness in their O-line and have lost some discipline on a great defense.  They are a dangerous team, capable of beating anyone, but they are also erratic.  What I know is this, as a Packer fan I am glad we are not traveling there this week.  I don't necessarily think the game we saw a couple of weeks ago would be repeated there this week. I do think the loss of Earl Thomas is a huge loss.  I also wonder which Bennett will show up, the intense, game-changing rusher, or the off scheme penalty machine.

I couldn't agree more. You said it a lot better than I ever could. 

I will say, though, that I wish we had Seattle at home instead of NYG. I would not want to go to Seattle however, yes. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I do sort of expect Seattle to kick it up a notch in the playoffs.  I think they may be one of those teams that can get bored in the regular season.  they have had a few long seasons in a row and that can reduce focus until things are on the line.

As for Detroit, I have always like Detroit and liked their fans.  Good people by and large who have stood bye their team through a lot of lean years.  I would like to see them taste some reward for that, but I don't know how.  Perhaps Stafford can play out of his mind.

Good luck to both teams and I hope they emerge without injury.

 

[Sabertooth]

I haven't rooted for Detroit to win in a long time.  But I hate Seattle.  Go Lions.  

There is a reason they play the games.  

I was out of FF this year.  WTF happened to Abdullah?   

 

[Mt. Man]

Lions 2017 schedule:

Home: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Browns, Steelers, Cardinals. 

Away: Bears, Packers, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Bengals, Ravens, Giants. 

I know next season is a long way away and a lot will change, but at first glance it looks brutal.

vs Falcons is a loss, @ Giants is a loss, vs Browns is a win. vs Steelers is probably a loss assuming Big Ben is healthy and Bell hasn't got himself suspended for the year. Past that... let's say 3-3 in the division (Chicago is a mess, Vikes could be contenders if Bridgewater's back to form, and GB is still GB until the wheels fall off Rodgers). Most of the rest of the schedule features teams with at least as many questions as them. As an early guess, it's looking like 7-9/8-8 to me. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

I haven't rooted for Detroit to win in a long time.  But I hate Seattle.  Go Lions.  

There is a reason they play the games.  

I was out of FF this year.  WTF happened to Abdullah?   

Played two games, tore a ligament in his foot. He's been out of a boot for six weeks - I only know that because I follow him on IG.

(fashionable kid, plays the guitar - oddly, there's like at least a dozen guitar players on the Lions - and hung out in edgy Brooklyn neighborhoods when they played the Giants) 

But like everyone on the Lions, mum on any specifics with respect to his injury.

 

[Interseptopus]

Played two games, tore a ligament in his foot. He's been out of a boot for six weeks - I only know that because I follow him on IG.

(fashionable kid, plays the guitar - oddly, there's like at least a dozen guitar players on the Lions - and hung out in edgy Brooklyn neighborhoods when they played the Giants) 

But like everyone on the Lions, mum on any specifics with respect to his injury.

I think this was quite significant... since it is still quite hush hush that can only mean it's worse than they are letting on. I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit drafted a RB fairly early in this draft. It's a deep RB class and Washington looked meh, Zenner looked awesome, and Abdullah is very questionable IMO

 

[Interseptopus]

As for Detroit, I have always like Detroit and liked their fans.  Good people by and large who have stood bye their team through a lot of lean years.  I would like to see them taste some reward for that, but I don't know how.  Perhaps Stafford can play out of his mind.

Good luck to both teams and I hope they emerge without injury.

I would agree with this. Detroit hasn't had a lot to root for in a long time. Of all the other NFC north teams it's the one that I can cheer for and I would like to see them find success. As long as it's not at the expense of my team

 

[msudaisy26]

yes he had a very good start to his career but he has declined in play this year and even last season to some degree. he's not as good today as he was in his first year or three. 

he's not going to win games by himself, but seattle will do well as long as he doesn't lose games by himself. he's already under performing to his contract. but we can continue this in a Wilson thread if u like. I think in the end we will agree to disagree and let things play out how they will. one will be right and one wrong at some point 

You are really underrating Wilson and discounting the injuries he had this year. This guy is a top 10 quarterback in the NFL, the stats don't always tell the whole story. It isn't always easy to have a quarterback and tell him to "Go be the man without being the man" He has been asked to lead this team by letting the defense and running game do the work when he has shown in spurts that he can sling it around the field and win games. He also doesn't have the weapons a lot of other quarterbacks do and maybe he never will.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I think this was quite significant... since it is still quite hush hush that can only mean it's worse than they are letting on. I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit drafted a RB fairly early in this draft. It's a deep RB class and Washington looked meh, Zenner looked awesome, and Abdullah is very questionable IMO

Yeah it's a weird deal. He saw Dr Robert Anderson early in the week right before Thanksgiving and the reports were the foot is structurally sound, everything went well, etc. He was supposed to resume practice in a couple weeks. Right after that I started seeing pics on his personal IG account of him walking around without the boot. But no indication he ever got close to returning.

As for the magnanimity being shown, I wouldn't ever root for another NFC North team. I hate the Bears, Packers and Vikings, and question the patriotism of any Lions fan who does. Don't get me started on the freaking Yoopers love affair with Dairyland.

(I did, however, always root for Joe Kapp/Fran Tarkenton in the Super Bowls they lost. I was young and naive.)

And the 1985 Bears. I was 12,000 miles away and watching games 7-10 days after they happened on VHS.

I would agree with this. Detroit hasn't had a lot to root for in a long time. Of all the other NFC north teams it's the one that I can cheer for and I would like to see them find success. As long as it's not at the expense of my team  

 

[msudaisy26]

As for the magnanimity being shown, I wouldn't ever root for another NFC North team. I hate the Bears, Packers and Vikings, and question the patriotism of any Lions fan who does. Don't get me started on the freaking Yoopers love affair with Dairyland.

My in-laws have a cabin up there and we have been up there several times. We have talked to the Yoopers up there and the reason they like the Packers more is because their players go up there and do more appearances and charity events than Lions players do and it isn't close. I can't hate on them for liking a team that isn't in their state, when that team that is right next door helps their community a lot more.

 

[BobbyLayne]

My in-laws have a cabin up there and we have been up there several times. We have talked to the Yoopers up there and the reason they like the Packers more is because their players go up there and do more appearances and charity events than Lions players do and it isn't close. I can't hate on them for liking a team that isn't in their state, when that team that is right next door helps their community a lot more.

Packers still do stuff like that?

I haven't lived in Michigan since 1999 and haven't lived in west Michigan since 1996, but I thought athletes don't do the quaint in-state stuff like they used to every off-season. Like a lot of Lions are active around Wayne/Oakland counties, but when I was a kid they had a barnstorming basketball team and they made a lot of appearances in Lansing/Grand Rapids/Muskegon. I get the sense that's not really the case these days and hasn't been for awhile.

 

[msudaisy26]

Packers still do stuff like that?

I haven't lived in Michigan since 1999 and haven't lived in west Michigan since 1996, but I thought athletes don't do the quaint in-state stuff like they used to every off-season. Like a lot of Lions are active around Wayne/Oakland counties, but when I was a kid they had a barnstorming basketball team and they made a lot of appearances in Lansing/Grand Rapids/Muskegon. I get the sense that's not really the case these days and hasn't been for awhile.

In the 15 years my in-laws had that place, they just sold it a little less than a year ago, we went up there probably 20 times. Every time we went out to the bar, or a casino, or seen people on snow mobiles and talked football they would always bring up the Packers, and one of us would always ask why they like the Packers over the Lions and most of them said how the Packers would make more of an effort in their communities then the Lions would. They could be lying and just saying it so we didn't give them crap for  rooting for the better team year in and year out.

 

[Interseptopus]

Packers do a LOT of community stuff. Makes sense that the UP would get more of that than from the Lions. It's just closer. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Anyway, Toledo for the Upper Peninsula is still one of the greatest trades ever. Love spending time up there (my oldest lives in Houghton.) One of the prettiest places on earth.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Packers do a LOT of community stuff. Makes sense that the UP would get more of that than from the Lions. It's just closer. 

The Lions do as well - and actually they have a ton of alumni in the area who are also very active - but most of it is confined to the six counties around the D. Most of the state is a bit detached from that.

I don't know too many Michiganders who are proud of much of anything about Detroit over the last 50 years other than the 9 championships by the other three sports teams. From cultural, economic and political viewpoints, it's very different from the vast majority of the state (which is largely rural and full of natural beauty.) Heck even people from the suburbs make a point to self-identify by their county or town instead of saying "I'm from the Detroit area." But people from Long Island or NJ or Westchester will just say "I'm from New York" (implying they are from the city) when they're on vacation.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Anyway, Toledo for the Upper Peninsula is still one of the greatest trades ever. Love spending time up there (my oldest lives in Houghton.) One of the prettiest places on earth.

Toledo has a nice zoo but otherwise I agree.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Spot is up to 8, sounds about right considering the teams home/road splits.

 

[Mt. Man]

I think this was quite significant... since it is still quite hush hush that can only mean it's worse than they are letting on. I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit drafted a RB fairly early in this draft. It's a deep RB class and Washington looked meh, Zenner looked awesome, and Abdullah is very questionable IMO

It doesn't help that the team's taken the Belichick-style approach to injuries. Player has a hangnail? "Check the report" Player needs a cybernetic leg to walk again? "Check the report". See also Riddick going from questionable to out for 3-4 straight weeks before finally being put onto the IR. But yeah, they had some chance to bring him back, and he didn't even seem a priority there, so... easy to guess "not good". 

RB is a need, though I can already hear the sound of Lions fans groaning at the possibility taking another RB in the 1st or 2nd round.  As less painful that might be with Quinn in charge. Riddick and Zenner are good pieces, but it would be nice to actually have someone to take ~15 carries a game as the closest thing to a bell cow might have. Washington might develop, but 'meh' is a good evaluation so far.

As for the magnanimity being shown, I wouldn't ever root for another NFC North team. I hate the Bears, Packers and Vikings, and question the patriotism of any Lions fan who does. Don't get me started on the freaking Yoopers love affair with Dairyland.

Yeah, I don't think I could root for another NFC North team. Against, sure.... Then again, I'm used to having a second (AFC) team to root for during the Lions' poorer years. For me, this was largely Denver during the Elway years. Now it's mostly fantasy teams, though I'd probably pull for Oakland just because of similar past situations if not for Carr's injury making that seem fruitless. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

As far as the RB issue goes, I heard a radio guy say they have not been in the top half of the league in rushing in this century. Hard to be a consistent winner without that. So instead of those who like to whine about the coach or the QB, they might want to work on that.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

 

[Interseptopus]

It doesn't help that the team's taken the Belichick-style approach to injuries. Player has a hangnail? "Check the report" Player needs a cybernetic leg to walk again? "Check the report". See also Riddick going from questionable to out for 3-4 straight weeks before finally being put onto the IR. But yeah, they had some chance to bring him back, and he didn't even seem a priority there, so... easy to guess "not good". 

RB is a need, though I can already hear the sound of Lions fans groaning at the possibility taking another RB in the 1st or 2nd round.  As less painful that might be with Quinn in charge. Riddick and Zenner are good pieces, but it would be nice to actually have someone to take ~15 carries a game as the closest thing to a bell cow might have. Washington might develop, but 'meh' is a good evaluation so far.

Yeah, I don't think I could root for another NFC North team. Against, sure.... Then again, I'm used to having a second (AFC) team to root for during the Lions' poorer years. For me, this was largely Denver during the Elway years. Now it's mostly fantasy teams, though I'd probably pull for Oakland just because of similar past situations if not for Carr's injury making that seem fruitless. 

I forgot about Riddick... it's been that long since he's played it seems. Zenner/Riddick would be a good duo next year. Abdullah mixed in there as well. Then theres Washington.So I guess it's tough to see an additional RB added to the mix unless they want to go nuts at RB. 

Abdullah is probably on his last life next season. But for how long do you keep plugging in guys to try and make it work instead of just going out and getting someone to make it work? I was going to make this comparison yesterday but erased it in fear of getting ridiculed., but how Detroit is built reminds me a LOT of how NE is built:
Big arm QB, make it work at RB, a bunch of WR2/3 to fill out the WRs. A strong TE1 (debatable at this point, but I think he will be really good someday). But my point is their offense is kind of structured similar to NE. They don't have a big star anymore outside of their QB. If they continue to structure that way they could be "retirement proof" aside from QB

 

[BobbyLayne]

Toledo has a nice zoo but otherwise I agree.

Once spent a month working in downtown Toledo. That was a long year.

The only thing I remember is having to stay at some random exit off 75 south of town because there was nowhere to stay & no good restaurants. Then I got assigned to go to Findlay. Which was a significant upgrade from Best Western & Cracker Barrel. Good times. 

Asa Jackson and Corey Robinson to IR. Reiff held out of practice today, Swanson (who was limited last week) is back in the concussion protocol. Or never left it. No idea who our starting RT will be, Garrett Reynolds (started some in 2014 when the O-line was really bad) was signed off the street. Rookie UDFA Adairius Barnes was resigned, looks like he'll be splitting nickel back with Don Carey.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I forgot about Riddick... it's been that long since he's played it seems. Zenner/Riddick would be a good duo next year. Abdullah mixed in there as well. Then theres Washington.So I guess it's tough to see an additional RB added to the mix unless they want to go nuts at RB. 

Abdullah is probably on his last life next season. But for how long do you keep plugging in guys to try and make it work instead of just going out and getting someone to make it work? I was going to make this comparison yesterday but erased it in fear of getting ridiculed., but how Detroit is built reminds me a LOT of how NE is built:
Big arm QB, make it work at RB, a bunch of WR2/3 to fill out the WRs. A strong TE1 (debatable at this point, but I think he will be really good someday). But my point is their offense is kind of structured similar to NE. They don't have a big star anymore outside of their QB. If they continue to structure that way they could be "retirement proof" aside from QB

AA is 23 and his rookie deal runs through 2018. Riddick's extension takes him through 2019.

Yeah, I've had that same thought about roster management. Earlier in the year we had a brief discussion about Ziggy - do you give him $15-20M per in the off-season and use up all your cap space? "The Patriot Way" would be to play it out in 2017, then let him walk.