2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (11 Viewers)

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Fire Canada. We run a high school offense.

Get a load of the Steelers route trees for wideouts

MIAMI GARDENS, Fla. -- You're not dreaming. The Steelers' route charts are just as bad as you think they are.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

(shows route tree comparisons)

 

[steelers1080]

It feels like ~30% of the offensive issues are the WRs and Pickett not being on the same page yet. It was noted on twitter, but on the final play Pickett threw what is the textbook throw with a CB facing away, a back shoulder comeback. Diontae could have caught it and been out of bounds at the 3. But Diontae saw the opening in the corner of the endzone and broke there instead of coming back just as Pickett threw. This is the kind of play that Ben and AB would get 99% of the time because they were so synched. Having Mitch get most of the training camp reps did not help this development. Also, the pick where Claypool fell down is hard to blame on Pickett. Or the ball that landed in open field where Claypool kept running until he was covered by the linebacker. If Claypool had stopped in the open area, it would have been a super easy catch, but he kept running until he was covered.

I know Kenny is missing some open plays where he doesn't see the WR breaking open, but there are also a fair amount of plays where the Steelers WRs just aren't on the same page yet.

 

[steelers1080]

Fire Canada. We run a high school offense.

I think I'm coming around and think it might actually happen after this week. If the offense just craters against the Eagles, I think Canada could be gone in an effort to try and save the season/see what Sullivan can do. I didn't think Tomlin would make the switch to Kenny due to stubbornness, and he surprised. Hopefully he surprises again and fires Canada when we have the 2 weeks to prepare a new take on the offense. They can't 100% change the playbook in 2 weeks, but Sullivan can add wrinkles and try new playcalling/situational awareness.

We've faced several teams recently with large portions of their secondary missing and not being able to take advantage of that is pitiful.

 

[crushedspirit]

Dead last at 4.8 yds/play, and second last at 15.3 pts/game.

The excuses are getting silly to be honest. There are other offenses with young players and questionable QBs as well, yet they are better.

I know Matt is another Tomlin internal buddy hire, but this is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Godsbrother]

Dead last at 4.8 yds/play, and second last at 15.3 pts/game.

The excuses are getting silly to be honest. There are other offenses with young players and questionable QBs as well, yet they are better.

I know Matt is another Tomlin internal buddy hire, but this is beyond ridiculous.

Agreed. We are at the point where it is obvious that Canada's offense is clearly lacking. We can't fire the whole team so Cananda's got to go.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Dead last at 4.8 yds/play, and second last at 15.3 pts/game.

The excuses are getting silly to be honest. There are other offenses with young players and questionable QBs as well, yet they are better.

I know Matt is another Tomlin internal buddy hire, but this is beyond ridiculous.

Agreed. We are at the point where it is obvious that Canada's offense is clearly lacking. We can't fire the whole team so Cananda's got to go.

100%.

The yards per attempt/play are strikingly similar to last year with Big Ben. We run the same plays over and over. So predictable and the WRs run basic routes etc.

 

[steelers1080]

Dead last at 4.8 yds/play, and second last at 15.3 pts/game.

The excuses are getting silly to be honest. There are other offenses with young players and questionable QBs as well, yet they are better.

I know Matt is another Tomlin internal buddy hire, but this is beyond ridiculous.

Agreed. We are at the point where it is obvious that Canada's offense is clearly lacking. We can't fire the whole team so Cananda's got to go.

100%.

The yards per attempt/play are strikingly similar to last year with Big Ben. We run the same plays over and over. So predictable and the WRs run basic routes etc.

Run, Run, Pass. And the passes are short of the sticks. Short passing all the time means that defenses can all move up which exacerbates our run game issues. I honestly believe that if they switched OC we could increase offensive productivity by 50% or more within 1 week. That would mean go from averaging 14 pts per game to 21 pts; definitely seems doable...

 

[crushedspirit]

If this team is serious about finding out if Pickett is their future, you have to fire the OC, and support the kid much better.

I'm no big fan of the pick, but how can he be assessed properly with this playcalling?

 

[humpback]

If this team is serious about finding out if Pickett is their future, you have to fire the OC, and support the kid much better.

I'm no big fan of the pick, but how can he be assessed properly with this playcalling?

Exactly my point. Let him at least try to run an NFL offense.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Well, Tomlin said he "isn't there yet" on making changes to the offense. So Canada remains OC and play-caller this week at least. Oh well.

 

[Godsbrother]

Well, Tomlin said he "isn't there yet" on making changes to the offense. So Canada remains OC and play-caller this week at least. Oh well.

Should we be excited that he said "yet"?

 

[Grid71]

It gives me hope GB. Until then, fans can continue to shout Hey Diddle Diddle, Harris up the middle!

 

[steelers1080]

Game prediction: Eagles 23 - Steelers 10
I think our D lets up some early scores, similar to Miami, then stiffens up in the 2nd half. Our offense sputters and scores on 1 long drive and a no-huddle drive where Pickett has more agency. Going into the bye week Canada is demoted or fired and Sullivan is given control of the offense.

Might just be my hope, but I think Tomlin finally does the right thing. Canada's game plans and play calling are being ridiculed from everybody that truly understands game planning, schematics, etc.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Game prediction: Eagles 23 - Steelers 10
I think our D lets up some early scores, similar to Miami, then stiffens up in the 2nd half. Our offense sputters and scores on 1 long drive and a no-huddle drive where Pickett has more agency. Going into the bye week Canada is demoted or fired and Sullivan is given control of the offense.

Might just be my hope, but I think Tomlin finally does the right thing. Canada's game plans and play calling are being ridiculed from everybody that truly understands game planning, schematics, etc.

I am torn. I want the Steelers to win so that I can shut-up all of the Eagles fans around me here. But on the other hand, I want Canada fired yesterday, and a win may keep him around all season. Maybe we can win 6-3.

 

[Godsbrother]

TJ watt returned to practice yesterday. Sounds like he might be a GO after the bye

 

[steelers1080]

More recent rumors saying Steelers "won't take less than a 2nd for Claypool." If we lose this week, but he looks decent, I think there's a fair chance he gets traded. Sure, we'd have 1 more year with him, but I don't think he's getting a large enough contract to net us a 3rd round comp pick. I think more likely a 5th. Also, I think Omar would accept a 3rd. This feels like a where there's smoke there's fire kinda thing.

Also, he still doesn't run reliable routes. He came up huge against the Bucs, and has flashed good ability, but it's not reliable. Other than GB, not sure who's WR needy enough.

 

[Grid71]

Would rather see DJ traded. Seems like he is getting lazy with his effort. I’d rather have Claypool busting his hump but not on the same page yet with Pickett. A good off season working together will go a long way.

 

[McBokonon]

TJ watt returned to practice yesterday. Sounds like he might be a GO after the bye

These guys say he's playing this weekend.

I haven't documented their track record but I've been following them on a Twitter for a while and can't recall them spreading nonsense, but I can't really 'vouch." They're confirming an original report by Barstool's Pittsburgh people, followed by Coolong and guys like Cam Heyward, Bettis, Shazier, etc.

 

[steelers1080]

Schefter says he wasn't activated so he's not playing.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Which receiver for Pitt has the best day vs. the PHI secondary...DJ, Pickens, Claypool or Freiermuth? I’m thinking the DL gets pressure the QB and short passes will be early and often.

 

[cdclopper]

Schefter says he wasn't activated so he's not playing.

oh no! we suck again

from the waterboy

m.youtube.com

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Every throw to a WR is on the sidelines with no chance to do anything but go out of bounds. Wasted talent.

The td play was a bad call. Lucky they scored.

Calling wr screens when backed up to the goal line was asking for a pick 6 too — got lucky.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Romo said 3 of every 5 passes should be deep shots to our wrs. And he is right.

 

[crushedspirit]

I still have not seen anything to show that Pickett can be the future. When he has to pass over 10 yards, I see trouble. Sure, he can accurately dink and dunk, but that won't do anything in this league. He also stares down his targets, and makes bad decisions leading to turnovers.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Not that it really matters, but did the Steelers ever manage to crack 4.5 yards per play in this one? I checked in at halftime, saw the score, took a quick look and there were hovering around 4. Eagles were over 10. I didn't feel motivated to bother looking again.

This team is pretty bad at football right now.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I still have not seen anything to show that Pickett can be the future. When he has to pass over 10 yards, I see trouble. Sure, he can accurately dink and dunk, but that won't do anything in this league. He also stares down his targets, and makes bad decisions leading to turnovers.

So far he’s only going to his first read and a lot of times he’s slow to even make that decision. This team is so bad right now but Watt is coming back. That means lower draft pick. Yay!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

13 points. Fire Canada now. Then we know more of what we have in Pickett and Sullivan for next year.

 

[karl.Racki]

Steelers FO has some big decisions to make this off season..

That includes on to keep Harris and Claypool or try to deal them. Harris may have been a product of Bama's OL. Warren has looked a lot better.

Figure out what they want to do in the draft. Not saying to go QB in Rd 1, but I would not dismiss grabbing a QB all together. They need to look at Pickett hard, if they don't and he turns out to be a bust, you may have wasted Watt's career here.

The OL and Secondary needs addressed bad.

 

[steelers1080]

The left side of our OL needs upgrading, Picket has looked impressive at times and like a rookie at times, our secondary has looked rough when facing star WRs but has typically stepped up in the 2nd half, Witherspoon appears to be a liability with last year looking more like an outlier, Bush and Spillane are not good, OLB corps is weak without Watt, Najee can't get going North and South fast enough.

Lots of issues, but the most important is finding out what we have at QB. Per what Romo said on air, this scheme just makes things more difficult for the offense. Step 1, Fire Canada and replace him with Sullivan. Step 2, see if Pickett improves/offense improves. If not, you know you need to clean house offensively next season. Step 3, if Pickett doesn't improve at all by the end of the year, at least look at QB in the 1st depending on where we end up and talent available. You don't pass on the next superstar just because you took a QB the year before, and Khan can say, that wasn't my pick.

 

[belljr]

You guys didn't actually watch that did you

 

[fred_1_15301]

You guys didn't actually watch that did you

Worse - I watched it with Eagles fans. And even though it was a blowout, they were still complaining about the PI call against the Eagles (which was pretty obvious) lol.

 

[belljr]

You guys didn't actually watch that did you

Worse - I watched it with Eagles fans. And even though it was a blowout, they were still complaining about the PI call against the Eagles (which was pretty obvious) lol.

Lol.. .my sister asked me if I wanted to come over. I said why would I want to a watch them lose by 21 points and sit with a bunch of eagles fans

 

[Godsbrother]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Players and coaches tossed under the bus.
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Kenny Pickett says Steelers offensive players aren’t studying enough. Damn.
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Steelers Depot
@Steelersdepot

First Call: Bill Cowher questions Steelers' use of Kenny Pickett; Najee Harris says, 'I can’t make a hole. I can't do everything' https://triblive.com/sports/first-call-bill-cowher-questions-steelers-use-of-kenny-pickett-najee-harris-says-i-cant-make-a-hole-i-cant-do-everything/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter… #Steelers
Joe Rutter
@tribjoerutter

Najee Harris, on what the Steelers lack: "We lack a lot of stuff. We lack a lot of experience, lack a lot of discipline, accountability. We lack a lot. We can’t go forward without correcting the little things that are affecting us. That is stuff we talk about every week."
Steelfaz
@Steelerzfan73

Replying to @tribjoerutter
Players flat out calling out coaching after this one. Add to it, this stench has to set for 2 weeks. They need this misery. Years of poor habits coming to fruition.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

Two weeks too late, unfortunately.

It really is so frustrating. I think I said in here that the Pickett selection was going to set us back 5 years, and now I am really worried that is true and we waste Watt and Fitz totally.

 

[Blick]

Everyone is beating up the offense, but defense is just as bad. No pass rush. The secondary stinks.

 

[humpback]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

Drafting a QB early is not a mistake, reaching to take a QB who doesn't deserve to be drafted in the first round is. O-line is obviously a huge priority (at least it should be), but it's somewhat easier to address in free agency than QB. If they have an opportunity to take a legit potential franchise QB and pass it would be a pretty huge mistake IMO. No idea who will be available or where they'll be drafting the following year.

Totally agree about Canada, and if he isn't gone like this week then Tomlin should go too. The team obviously isn't great but they aren't even giving the offense (or Pickett) a chance.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

You don't pick on the top 5 often. If they get a chance, they need to draft a QB

 

[fred_1_15301]

This is what happens when a team in desperate need of help on the O line and everywhere on the defense selects 4 skill position players in the first 5 rounds. This follows a year where they select 2 skill position players in the first 2 rounds. Who the heck is making the final call on these picks? Is there any accountability?

Look no further than the team they played yesterday and how they built a juggernaut of a team. It starts up front.

 

[Godsbrother]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

You don't pick on the top 5 often. If they get a chance, they need to draft a QB

Which QB do you want them to take?

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

You don't pick on the top 5 often. If they get a chance, they need to draft a QB

Which QB do you want them to take?

I would take Stroud then Levis, then Young

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Everyone is beating up the offense, but defense is just as bad. No pass rush. The secondary stinks.

The defense played two "bad" games. Otherwise, they kept the team in every other game. The offense not being able to score 20 points is the problem.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Pickett was such a reach. They should have gone oline and went with Mitch and Rudolph this season. If we were still this bad then we get a top 10 franchise qb to go with a new oline and talented skill players. What a bad strategic pick.

Yes I hated the Pickett pick, not so much against Pickett is that it was so obvious the offensive line needed to be addressed first, especially after signing Trubisky. You go with he and Rudolph, fix the Oline and then get your franchise QB in 2023. So dumb.

That said I really don't think we should repeat the mistake and draft another QB early. We still need to fix the offensive line and we have some holes to fill on defense. Roll with Pickett next year then get your QB in 2024.

Whatever they do they need to fire Canada tomorrow.

You don't pick on the top 5 often. If they get a chance, they need to draft a QB

Which QB do you want them to take?

No clue. But I know that this QB class has sure-fire first round talent. And we took a 5th year senior who is 24 years old and had 1.5 good college seasons. I was amazed when I heard that Hurts is younger than Pickett yesterday, but in his third season. No QBs should have been taken in the first in 2022. We reached -- and according to my sources, this falls on Rooney. Steelers has no intention of taking a QB in the first until Rooney came into the room and upended everything (Haskins death played a big part in his thinking apparently) -- draft board had none in their first round (Pickens and Leal were on it though with first round grades). P

 

[steelers1080]

If Tomlin doesn't fire Canada this week, it's just stubbornness at this point. There's no way you can point at how this offense is run and think, "Yeah, that looks like an NFL offense." People point at penalties and discipline, you know who's partly responsible for that? The freakin OC. If Chuks keeps being illegally downfield and Moore is lining up in the backfield, the OC should be working with position coaches to see wtf is going on.

Sullivan might not be better, but can he honestly be worse? Tomlin is in the process of losing the locker room. Winning cures all team ailments, but this team has almost no hope of winning if we score 13 points per game.

My big fear remains, Tomlin keeps Canada all year and then promotes Sullivan next year and he sucks too. Khan and/or Rooney need to step in at this point, shake Tomlin, and yell in his face "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!"
"We're going to practice during the bye week and bring in Refs." That's like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It just sounds so out of touch with the real problem.

Honestly, the defense has tried to keep us in games. They let up late drives against several opponents, but if we had scored like a normal NFL team, we'd still have won.

 

[steelers1080]

It does not appear that they are firing Canada. I've been one of the "Tomlin still isn't close to the hot seat" camp, but this feels like the delay in benching Mitch, just a poor coaching decision. If they come out and suck on offense against the Saints, Bengals, and Colts, it feels like THEN finally Tomlin will move on, approximately 1.5 seasons too late.

If they don't fire Canada this week, I hope that Tomlin has very little say in the hiring of the next OC.

I support my team, and agree that we have been spoiled for years, but it's not just fans saying that this guy is a joke of an OC.

If Tomlin sticks with Canada all year and we get like 4 wins, and then he promotes Sullivan next year to "provide continuity for Pickett", and we win another 4-6 wins next year, Tomlin should be fired. That's a lot of ifs, and I definitely think Tomlin might be able to turn things around, but 8 games into the season it's not looking good.

I think it's too soon to pass final judgement on Pickett. Some people are already writing him off as a bust, but with the terrible OC and bad O-line I think it's too early to tell.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I think it's too soon to pass final judgement on Pickett. Some people are already writing him off as a bust,

... after the BYE would be optimal timing.

On the road, against the Bills was not ideal for his first start.

Meh, the NFL is a tough place. If you want to succeed you have to beat great teams. ..

Not reasonable to expect a rookie QB to beat what is one of the best teams on the road in his first NFL start.
What harm would come of starting Mitch for the four-game stretch?
Steeler fans aren't used to this and expect too much and don't realize how a young rookie QB's confidence 'can' get shattered, and their career ruined. It has happened and can happen.

I noted that they shouldn't have started Pickett until after the BYE week and this is why.
The game scripts are much harder when facing top teams.
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Steelers Depot
@Steelersdepot
Because yinz want to know, Ben Roethlisberger had 19 total dropback snaps during his rookie season when trailing by 14 or more points. All 19 came in his debut against the Ravens. #Steelers

Steelers Depot
@Steelersdepot
I have it calculated that 78 of Kenny Pickett's 190 drop backs have come with the Steelers trailing by 14 points or more. 92 of them when trailing by at least 10 points. #Steelers #NFL
https://mobile.twitter.com/Steelersdepot

Steelers Depot
@Steelersdepot
When you are down 14 or more, defenses can play you much different. Add to this the fact that the Steelers still can't run when down 4, 14, 44, 144, etc. It's broke and it ain't getting fixed this season.

 

[crushedspirit]

Then why draft Pickett when the team was full of holes? They took the plodder Najee the year before over a stud C who is the best at his position.

The answer is probably because Tomlin and company believed they had a capable team, and Ben was holding them back. Why else keep a garbage OC who was garbage the year before as well?

The Tomlin faithful will see the light soon. If not this year, then by next for sure.

 

[steelers1080]

Per a Steelers "insider", if Canada is fired it will happen after Thursday so that the media doesn't have access to the team until next week.

Idk, feels like if it was going to happen it would have happened Monday, for the new implementation/coaching Tuesday & Wednesday.

 

[Godsbrother]

Per a Steelers "insider", if Canada is fired it will happen after Thursday so that the media doesn't have access to the team until next week.

Idk, feels like if it was going to happen it would have happened Monday, for the new implementation/coaching Tuesday & Wednesday.

I have no idea but my guess is that Canada doesn't get fired during the bye. For some reason I think they will be reluctant to change until Tomlin considers the season a total loss. My prediction: after the Bengals game.