2024-25 NBA Thread: for the second time, somebody in Dallas hits low percentage shot that leads to a generation of conspiracy theories (41 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Next up for the Lakers: Bronny for Giannis.

ETA Actually maybe we should keep Bronny. Hachimura for Giannis.

 

[Desert_Power]

The real winner is Kevin Costner. This trade is so ridiculous it has upped the ante from the stuff he was doing in Draft Day. Surely a Dallas-based sequel is incoming.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Kyrie is probably handling this well.

He's probably happy to get the ball in his hands more. Luke is a heck of a talent. But he might be the most ball dominant player in the last 25 years.

 

[millertyme1]

Imagine complaining about someone's weight when you've employed Fat Lever.

 

[TheAristocrat]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

 

[Courtjester]

I just don’t understand the shift in the betting odds in favor of the Lakers to win the Western Conference. They are going to be fortunate to make the playoffs with this roster. Luka and LBJ are basically redundant in their roles and neither plays a whiff of defense. Rui and Hayes sure aren’t the answer in the paint. This is not even mentioning they had a shallow bench before and this guts that even further.

 

[Desert_Power]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

Instead of retiring at the end of the Bulls run, they trade Rodman and a future 1st for Kobe.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

First you have to start by understanding that players actually utilize the 3-pt line now. And that has changed basketball somewhat.

 

[timschochet]

Lakers threw in Kwame Brown as well.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

Joe Burrow for Matt Stafford and a future 1st.

 

[msudaisy26]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

The Mavs just traded a top five 25 year old NBA player, when they can offer him more than anyone else in salary and years for a 32 year oft injured player that is probably going to fall off the cliff sooner than most because of his injury history, all without even testing the market when at least 25 other teams could have offered more than what the Lakers could.

 

[Balco]

I just don’t understand the shift in the betting odds in favor of the Lakers to win the Western Conference. They are going to be fortunate to make the playoffs with this roster. Luka and LBJ are basically redundant in their roles and neither plays a whiff of defense. Rui and Hayes sure aren’t the answer in the paint. This is not even mentioning they had a shallow bench before and this guts that even further.

Maybe Vegas doesn’t think Lakers are done trading? Maybe they trade for Goebert? Butler?

 

[Balco]

Simmons speculated LeBron might be headed out. Golden State?

 

[Jayrod]

Simmons speculated LeBron might be headed out. Golden State?

Anything is possiblllllllllle!!!

 

[trader jake]

Listened to the Simmons podcast. Pretty great. Didn't know he doesn't count Minnesota titles

Nobody that puts a moment worth of thought into it should either. Minneapolis won those early Lakers titles, not LA. The people of Minneapolis supported that team and won and lost with them. Championships stay with the cities that won them.

Oklahoma City doesn't have a title because the Seattle Sonics team was clutch in 1978. It makes no sense. Because some rich guy got a better deal elsewhere? Nah, hard pass on that BS.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Listened to the Simmons podcast. Pretty great. Didn't know he doesn't count Minnesota titles

Nobody that puts a moment worth of thought into it should either. Minneapolis won those early Lakers titles, not LA. The people of Minneapolis supported that team and won and lost with them. Championships stay with the cities that won them.

Oklahoma City doesn't have a title because the Seattle Sonics team was clutch in 1978. It makes no sense. Because some rich guy got a better deal elsewhere? Nah, hard pass on that BS.

I don’t count the Minnesota ones because basketball was barely a real sport at that point. But the Packer NFL championships from 1929-31 are 100% real.

 

[the moops]

Listened to the Simmons podcast. Pretty great. Didn't know he doesn't count Minnesota titles

Nobody that puts a moment worth of thought into it should either. Minneapolis won those early Lakers titles, not LA. The people of Minneapolis supported that team and won and lost with them. Championships stay with the cities that won them.

Oklahoma City doesn't have a title because the Seattle Sonics team was clutch in 1978. It makes no sense. Because some rich guy got a better deal elsewhere? Nah, hard pass on that BS.

I don’t count the Minnesota ones because basketball was barely a real sport at that point. But the Packer NFL championships from 1929-31 are 100% real.

Whitey Skoog was the ****

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Explain this trade to a guy that hasn't paid attention to the NBA since Jordan. My phone seems to think I need this information.

I think you have understand the money. I don't claim to understand NBA finance but have read this trade moves the Mavs from being millions over the luxury tax to now being under it, due in part to AD waiving his trade bonus. The luxury tax can cost a team over $150m per season, depending on payroll, and is only going up each year. The Adelsons bought control of the team about one year ago, paying about $2.5Bln, are now facing a $350m fully guaranteed commitment to one player and decided against that. People will say they could have negotiated better and gotten more out of the deal, and I've no idea about that, but I'm not sure how many teams are in a position to take on this player right now. For me, from the Lakers' perspective, its not about what Luka is worth but what they would give up to get him now rather than waiting six months or eighteen depending on circumstances. It seems to me success in the modern NBA comes from great management, some luck, and above all having an owner willing to spend crazy money to take a shot. As more teams are sold to financial buyers and investment funds, we could possibly see more of this where the investors do some math and decide they don't want to fund a plan that requires a massive guaranteed commitment to one player and hundreds of millions in luxury tax.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So I read a couple articles saying that the Lakers/Mavs have been discussing trading for luka for about a month—with the first in person talks happening on January 7th. Luka got hurt on Christmas Day—which if these articles are accurate—would mean that the Mavs started thinking about moving him shortly after the calf strain (which is an injury that many attribute to conditioning issues). I’m not sure if any of the Mavs fans in here can verify this—but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds. To me, this feels like the Mavs not having long term confidence in Luka’s commitment to conditiioning and his ability to stay healthy as he ages.

 

[the moops]

but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds.

Oh come on

 

[TheAristocrat]

Thanks msudaisy and Cletius

 

[3 hour lunch]

but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds.

Oh come on

ESPN article did say high 260s

 

[millertyme1]

Zion for Rui/Vanderbilt/Vincent

 

[Brunell4MVP]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

 

[the moops]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds.

Oh come on

I’m not the one saying/reporting it—but there seem to be several outlets/sources that seem to be indicating that his weight gain is serious. This article says he’s at 270 and is the 7th heaviest player in the league. Again—I love the deal for the Lakers for the future ( i think it hurts them this year)—but I could see how this type of weight issue could give an organization pause before giving the guy 1/3rd of a billion dollars.

Luka Doncic Blatantly Ignores Mavs GM After 40-Lbs Weight Gain Causes Rift In Dallas Locker Room

Reports came up claiming that Luka Doncic is ignoring the Dallas Mavericks GM after his shocking trade to the Lakers.

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[Brunell4MVP]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

 

[jvdesigns2002]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

 

[Moe.]

but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds.

Oh come on

What? He looks it

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So I read a couple articles saying that the Lakers/Mavs have been discussing trading for luka for about a month—with the first in person talks happening on January 7th. Luka got hurt on Christmas Day—which if these articles are accurate—would mean that the Mavs started thinking about moving him shortly after the calf strain (which is an injury that many attribute to conditioning issues). I’m not sure if any of the Mavs fans in here can verify this—but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds. To me, this feels like the Mavs not having long term confidence in Luka’s commitment to conditiioning and his ability to stay healthy as he ages.

If this is from the same article I read, I interpreted it differently. From that article it sounds like the two GMs just started talking in general about basketball, like developing a friendly relationship over the course of the last month. And then yesterday or recently one of them brought up the idea of this trade and it happened fast.

 

[msudaisy26]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So I read a couple articles saying that the Lakers/Mavs have been discussing trading for luka for about a month—with the first in person talks happening on January 7th. Luka got hurt on Christmas Day—which if these articles are accurate—would mean that the Mavs started thinking about moving him shortly after the calf strain (which is an injury that many attribute to conditioning issues). I’m not sure if any of the Mavs fans in here can verify this—but I also read in a couple places that Luka is up to 270 pounds. To me, this feels like the Mavs not having long term confidence in Luka’s commitment to conditiioning and his ability to stay healthy as he ages.

If this is from the same article I read, I interpreted it differently. From that article it sounds like the two GMs just started talking in general about basketball, like developing a friendly relationship over the course of the last month. And then yesterday or recently one of them brought up the idea of this trade and it happened fast.

The articles I read didn’t seem to indicate that—but the articles that I read pretty much only seemed to indicate that the Mavs seemed to open the door to making Luka “move-able” a month or so ago. The article you read certainly seems to be more detailed—and I could totally see that being the case.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

 

[msudaisy26]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

 

[SFBayDuck]

If this is from the same article I read, I interpreted it differently. From that article it sounds like the two GMs just started talking in general about basketball, like developing a friendly relationship over the course of the last month. And then yesterday or recently one of them brought up the idea of this trade and it happened fast.

They apparently go back and have been close for several years , to when Pelinka was Kobe’s agent and Nico was Kobe’s Nike rep.

 

[msudaisy26]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

Luka, Tatum, Jokic, SGA, Ant, Giannis, Durant, Steph, Wemby. Just off the top.of my head.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

Luka, Tatum, Jokic, SGA, Ant, Giannis, Durant, Steph, Wemby. Just off the top.of my head.

I completely disagree with you about Durant and Steph being better and more impactful players on both ends of the court right now. I love steph but his offense has fallen off this season and his impact on the court defensively does not touch that of Davis. Davis and KD have similar impacts on the game offensively right now—but Davis completely overshadows KD on the defensive end. In any case, maybe you have him top 10-15ish—but it’s beyond reasonable to have him top 7ish.

 

[dickey moe]

Listened to the Simmons podcast. Pretty great. Didn't know he doesn't count Minnesota titles

Nobody that puts a moment worth of thought into it should either. Minneapolis won those early Lakers titles, not LA. The people of Minneapolis supported that team and won and lost with them. Championships stay with the cities that won them.

Oklahoma City doesn't have a title because the Seattle Sonics team was clutch in 1978. It makes no sense. Because some rich guy got a better deal elsewhere? Nah, hard pass on that BS.

I don’t count the Minnesota ones because basketball was barely a real sport at that point. But the Packer NFL championships from 1929-31 are 100% real.

I don't count the Covid title either.

 

[msudaisy26]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

Luka, Tatum, Jokic, SGA, Ant, Giannis, Durant, Steph, Wemby. Just off the top.of my head.

I completely disagree with you about Durant and Steph being better and more impactful players on both ends of the court right now. I love steph but his offense has fallen off this season and his impact on the court defensively does not touch that of Davis. Davis and KD have similar impacts on the game offensively right now—but Davis completely overshadows KD on the defensive end. In any case, maybe you have him top 10-15ish—but it’s beyond reasonable to have him top 7ish.

You are just trying win the argument with the both ends of the court. The advantage those guys I listed far exceed the narrative you are trying to pigeon hole AD into.

 

[Jayrod]

I looked up AD's advanced stats and so far this year, he's top 10 in every single one. I wouldn't have guessed it because I have paid zero attention to the Lakers, but he has been great this season.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

Luka, Tatum, Jokic, SGA, Ant, Giannis, Durant, Steph, Wemby. Just off the top.of my head.

I completely disagree with you about Durant and Steph being better and more impactful players on both ends of the court right now. I love steph but his offense has fallen off this season and his impact on the court defensively does not touch that of Davis. Davis and KD have similar impacts on the game offensively right now—but Davis completely overshadows KD on the defensive end. In any case, maybe you have him top 10-15ish—but it’s beyond reasonable to have him top 7ish.

You are just trying win the argument with the both ends of the court. The advantage those guys I listed far exceed the narrative you are trying to pigeon hole AD into.

Not at all. I just don’t agree with the notion that at this point in time that Davis is a player whose contract is toxic because he’s in some sort of major decline. He’s like a top 5-6 player in regard to what he averages scoring right now, he’s shooting over 50% from the field, and he’s clearly a top 5ish defensive player in the league. It seems to me that you are just picking players that you would “take” on your franchise ahead of Davis—as opposed to understanding the point that I’m making. Davis was an elite player in his prime and he’s still an elite player now. If there has been a dropoff from what you call his “peak”—it’s nominal or small at best.

 

[Capella]

No title in any sport before like 1967 counts.

 

[timschochet]

No title in any sport before like 1967 counts.

In that case the Los Angeles Lakers are the greatest sports franchise of all time

 

[Capella]

No title in any sport before like 1967 counts.

In that case the Los Angeles Lakers are the greatest sports franchise of all time

Dynamite drop-in Tim. Nobody cares.

 

[Gr00vus]

Simmons speculated LeBron might be headed out. Golden State?

This morning LeBron said he's planning on being with the Lakers through/after the trade deadline. He has a no trade clause, so it really is his call.

The Lakers did take advantage of an apparent long term golden opportunity here, but I think they're not realist contenders this season. I hope the don't fick things up long term by trying to get there now.

 

[Stoneworker]

All these horrible past their prime NBA contracts - gotta wonder when teams finally give up on getting the over 30 year olds that are on the decline. Bad max and supermax deals are not helping teams win championships. It may for a year or tow, but eventually the luxury tax takes its toll on owners. BOS likely to be in the same boat in 3 years. Not sure why anyone would sign Butler to a deal. He's lucky if he has another year of quality left.

What are these horrible past their prime contracts you are talking about in regards to this trade?

It's not a reference to the trade . Nor did I say it was. Just in general. But Anthony Davis contract is right there. Middleton, Beals, Lavine, Leonard, Simmons (like $40m and I'm not even sure he has played ball in 5 years). The concept of paying players as a reward for what they were is stupid

One can easily argue that Davis is not on the decline. He’s always been an injury risk—but there doesn’t seem to be much of a dropoff in his production on the court up to this point. I think some can argue that Davis and Lavine are playing some of the best basketball of their careers right now. I think the other guys you have on that list are pretty on point though.

Have you not watched Davis? Davis with the Pelicans was a no doubt top 5 player in the league.

I have watched Davis. He was probably a top 5 player back then—and where do you put him now—top 7-9–and that’s with an influx of really great young talent entering the league since then—and with him being the second option on the Lakers for a few years? I would bet that if Davis was the primary player on a team right now—he easily could go back to being considered a top 5ish talent.

He isn't. He is on the decline. He is still very good, but his best days are behind him. Probably a top 15ish player and on the way down.

We can agree to disagree. Even now in Davis’s career—factoring in both sides of the floor—offensive and defensive impact—I think most people would have a hard time naming 5-7 players in the league that are better than him right now. I certainly don’t think anybody could name 10 players that have the impact he has on the floor offensively and defensively at this moment.

Luka, Tatum, Jokic, SGA, Ant, Giannis, Durant, Steph, Wemby. Just off the top.of my head.

I completely disagree with you about Durant and Steph being better and more impactful players on both ends of the court right now. I love steph but his offense has fallen off this season and his impact on the court defensively does not touch that of Davis. Davis and KD have similar impacts on the game offensively right now—but Davis completely overshadows KD on the defensive end. In any case, maybe you have him top 10-15ish—but it’s beyond reasonable to have him top 7ish.

You are just trying win the argument with the both ends of the court. The advantage those guys I listed far exceed the narrative you are trying to pigeon hole AD into.

Not at all. I just don’t agree with the notion that at this point in time that Davis is a player whose contract is toxic because he’s in some sort of major decline. He’s like a top 5-6 player in regard to what he averages scoring right now, he’s shooting over 50% from the field, and he’s clearly a top 5ish defensive player in the league. It seems to me that you are just picking players that you would “take” on your franchise ahead of Davis—as opposed to understanding the point that I’m making. Davis was an elite player in his prime and he’s still an elite player now. If there has been a dropoff from what you call his “peak”—it’s nominal or small at best.

As a Nuggets fan I'd much rather see a Lakers team with Luka vs. AD in the playoffs. AD has always matched up well with Jokic but now the Joker should have free rein to do as he pleases.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Just saw Stephen A's thoughts and he made a really interesting point that Luka is now the Laker's primary focus. Their future.

LeBron is the past/present (for however long that is), so he really is a secondary thought now. How does he react to that shifting dynamic?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Just saw Stephen A's thoughts and he made a really interesting point that Luka is now the Laker's primary focus. Their future.

LeBron is the past/present (for however long that is), so he really is a secondary thought now. How does he react to that shifting dynamic?

Probably will depend on team performance. Winning doesn’t cure everything but it certainly helps.

Worst case is he demands a trade to the Clippers.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

It’s odd to think about the full circle of things. The Lakers make a trade where they trade bit pieces of their future (ingram, Randle, Lonzo,..etc)—to get Davis. The trade gets massively scrutinized even though Davis helps bring the Lakers a ring—and now—Davis gets traded away for a player that is most likely going to be the future of the Lakers for a while.