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2025 Cleveland Browns - 1- 5 (12 Viewers)

This season has never been about this year, and we have Emmerson back next season
Emerson is a FA
Before the season, we didn't extend Newsome who was slated as the slot and had Emmerson outside. Newsome wanted the outside because they get paid. After Emmerson got injured, Schwartz had to use Newsome outside and he struggled just as he had in the past.
The new guy played well his first two years but has struggled and has also been injury prone the past two seasons. We have him under contract for this and next year so he's going to get a good look, but we have preferred Emmerson over Newsome outside.
Denzel has had concussion issues. The new guy and Emmerson have injury concerns.
We really need a third CB.
My opinion is we still like Emmerson but he's not going to get paid in FA like he wanted due to the injury. I think we get him back on a short-term prove-it contract.
Err, unless the new guy goes against his current trajectory where he blows up and stays healthy.
 
This season has never been about this year, and we have Emmerson back next season
Emerson is a FA
Before the season, we didn't extend Newsome who was slated as the slot and had Emmerson outside. Newsome wanted the outside because they get paid. After Emmerson got injured, Schwartz had to use Newsome outside and he struggled just as he had in the past.
The new guy played well his first two years but has struggled and has also been injury prone the past two seasons. We have him under contract for this and next year so he's going to get a good look, but we have preferred Emmerson over Newsome outside.
Denzel has had concussion issues. The new guy and Emmerson have injury concerns.
We really need a third CB.
My opinion is we still like Emmerson but he's not going to get paid in FA like he wanted due to the injury. I think we get him back on a short-term prove-it contract.
Err, unless the new guy goes against his current trajectory where he blows up and stays healthy.
I agree that we need a 3rd CB, but that guy needs to be an effective slot. Is that Campbell?
 
I agree that we need a 3rd CB, but that guy needs to be an effective slot. Is that Campbell?
I don't know a thing about the new guy.
AB evaluates talent and he came through in the draft and with his WR trades and in the past, he has done well evaluating DBs in the draft. I doubt they traded for him if they didn't have him as an outside CB and they already have him starting outside so...
I parrot Stefanski in trusting AB with the trade, but I don't have a clue how he's going to play or how it shakes out.
My opinion is they like Emmerson and he won't get a big enough offer in FA to leave.
 
I agree that we need a 3rd CB, but that guy needs to be an effective slot. Is that Campbell?
I don't know a thing about the new guy.
AB evaluates talent and he came through in the draft and with his WR trades and in the past, he has done well evaluating DBs in the draft. I doubt they traded for him if they didn't have him as an outside CB and they already have him starting outside so...
I parrot Stefanski in trusting AB with the trade, but I don't have a clue how he's going to play or how it shakes out.
My opinion is they like Emmerson and he won't get a big enough offer in FA to leave.
Given the investments needed on the offense, I think the 3rd CB budget will be very modest. If Emerson doesn't command much on the market and he's brought back in wave 2, great, I'm just saying I think this move indicates he's not a priority, especially if Campbell is better outside than in.
 
In his cleveland.com article today, Terry Pluto (Cleveland sports journalist for those who are not familiar) stated "I hear more trades are coming before the Nov. 4 deadline."
Who's next?
 
Any chance Berry is working to trade Ford to AZ now that Benson is injured?
Report: Chargers are calling teams for running back help
The Chargers have gone from sitting pretty at 3-0 to slipping and falling to 3-2. And they’ve lost their top two running backs — Najee Harris (Achilles) for the year and Omarion Hampton (ankle) for at least four games.

As a result, the Chargers are in the market for help at the position.

Via Ian Rapoport of NFL Media, the Chargers have been calling teams in search of available running backs. They’re looking for whatever they can get — depth or a starter.
Who's next?
 
In his cleveland.com article today, Terry Pluto (Cleveland sports journalist for those who are not familiar) stated "I hear more trades are coming before the Nov. 4 deadline."
Who's next?
Anybody expiring at season's end- Njoku, Teller, Bitonio, Pocic, S Harris, Ford, Wright, etc
 
Welp, what's the head coaching market looking like?
That is my main issue, who the F do peeps think we'd get?
Hue?
Kitchens?
Urban Myer?
The five-year-old mentality of 'I'm mad and lashing out to make me feel good without thinking it through' has run its course with the Browns.
We know the issue is the offensive line and lack of a franchise QB.
Let's hold off of the quick fixes and look a little further down the road.
Long term outlook
 
Welp, what's the head coaching market looking like?

OMG, Kevin Stefanski must be praying for this. What a dream it would be to be fired away from this nightmare. I picture his phone ringing not-stop as he runs for the door with his carboard box of meaningful memories from Cleveland.
 
we need a 3rd CB, but that guy needs to be an effective slot. Is that Campbell?
This may work out for both teams but...
It didn't make any sense to me to make a CB switch mid-week.
It didn't for either team yesterday.
The defense did not travel to Pittsburgh
The newly acquired Tyson Campbell did not play well. He had two pass defelections, but was targeted a ton. He looked lost out there, stumbling around and allowing DK Metcalf to do whatever he wanted. He gave up a touchdown and nearly 100 yards throughout. The Browns may have buyers remorse here soon if he can’t figure it out in the coming weeks.
Newsome didn't look any better

Greg Newsome gave up a big play on his first snap with the Jaguars​

Neither the Seahawks nor the Jaguars were able to get much going on offense in the first half, but that changed when Seattle quarterback found Jaxon Smith-Njigba for a 61-yard touchdown
 
Browns supposedly still have a 1-3% chance of a wildcard slot, but I have no idea how.

almost 3 weeks til Halloween and they’re already toast.

i’m not sure how those players get out of bed in the morning.
 
Welp, what's the head coaching market looking like?
That is my main issue, who the F do peeps think we'd get?
Hue?
Kitchens?
Urban Myer?
The five-year-old mentality of 'I'm mad and lashing out to make me feel good without thinking it through' has run its course with the Browns.
We know the issue is the offensive line and lack of a franchise QB.
Let's hold off of the quick fixes and look a little further down the road.
Long term outlook
Belichick... :ROFLMAO:...:oldunsure:...:crying:

And add WR to your list of issues.
 
Welp, what's the head coaching market looking like?
That is my main issue, who the F do peeps think we'd get?
Hue?
Kitchens?
Urban Myer?
The five-year-old mentality of 'I'm mad and lashing out to make me feel good without thinking it through' has run its course with the Browns.
We know the issue is the offensive line and lack of a franchise QB.
Let's hold off of the quick fixes and look a little further down the road.
Long term outlook
Probably someone else that will fail.
 
How it's going:

89 WRs and TEs are ranked in ESPN’s Receiver Scores, which takes into account how well they perform in getting open, making the catch and generating YAC. This is where the Browns’ pass-catchers rank:

Cedric Tillman (76)
David Njoku (81)
Harold Fannin (82)
Isaiah Bond (83)
Jerry Jeudy (87)

This offense's issues go very deep. It's an unimaginative design and that's reflected in the above. The operation is plagued by the things that impacts most bad offenses - drops and bad penalties. I'm not going to play amateur shrink from my armchair but this offense is somewhere between not rowing in the same direction and unfocused. This is a product of not trusting their leader.

Don't get me wrong. The personnel is a problem. Within a better design it's just one skill position player away though. Add a rd 1 WR and the rest of this group is then in their appropriate role. The OL's going to require more work though. That's why I was so up-in-arms in April. Part of it can be addressed in March, but it's real hard to find a long-term LT outside of rd 1 of the draft. Given the lack of developed talent, I can't imagine it'll be rebuilt in less than 2-3 years.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


Not really a shot. Obviously, he was asked directly about it and gave an honest answer... basically saying out loud what everyone was thinking.
I’ll agree to disagree

Should he have been more honest, "Doesn't even move the dumb needle in comparison to the Baker Mayfield move... which pales in comparison to the Deshaun Watson move... which pales... "
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


Not really a shot. Obviously, he was asked directly about it and gave an honest answer... basically saying out loud what everyone was thinking.
I’ll agree to disagree

Should he have been more honest, "Doesn't even move the dumb needle in comparison to the Baker Mayfield move... which pales in comparison to the Deshaun Watson move... which pales... "
apples to oranges, not talking about moves that in hindsight did not work out.

Almost everyone I know, national and beat writers, think he took a shot at them. I do as well. You don’t. Cool. Already said as politely as I can you are welcome to your opinion.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


Not really a shot. Obviously, he was asked directly about it and gave an honest answer... basically saying out loud what everyone was thinking.
I’ll agree to disagree

Should he have been more honest, "Doesn't even move the dumb needle in comparison to the Baker Mayfield move... which pales in comparison to the Deshaun Watson move... which pales... "
apples to oranges, not talking about moves that in hindsight did not work out.

Almost everyone I know, national and beat writers, think he took a shot at them. I do as well. You don’t. Cool. Already said as politely as I can you are welcome to your opinion.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when Andrew Berry's calls the Steelers tomorrow and tries to negotiate a deal for Jerry Jeudy
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


Not really a shot. Obviously, he was asked directly about it and gave an honest answer... basically saying out loud what everyone was thinking.
I’ll agree to disagree

Should he have been more honest, "Doesn't even move the dumb needle in comparison to the Baker Mayfield move... which pales in comparison to the Deshaun Watson move... which pales... "
apples to oranges, not talking about moves that in hindsight did not work out.

Almost everyone I know, national and beat writers, think he took a shot at them. I do as well. You don’t. Cool. Already said as politely as I can you are welcome to your opinion.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when Andrew Berry's calls the Steelers tomorrow and tries to negotiate a deal for Jerry Jeudy

He's worth an 8th rounder + free soda for 3 yrs.
 
Quincy Carrier laying the vicious smackdown on Myles Garret and his leadership qualities.
Caution that the video contains foul language and F bombs galore.

 
Quincy Carrier laying the vicious smackdown on Myles Garret
Quincy Carrier?
I don't dislike him but...
A few years back when Baker was injured and it was affecting his play.
I really didn't like what he was putting out.
Q waved off injury as an excuse then went into grave film study pounding his pulpit denigrating the QB abilities of Mayfield.
The TEAM isn't playing well. Many people are upset and see it as an opportunity to rip into minor issues. Myles Garrett not being a leader isn't the reason the TEAM isn't playing well.
 
Mmmn.
I don't agree that it is coaching.
The guy reviewing the film is speaking absolutes of micro-second time while riffing conjecture with sketchy conclusions based on HIS personal coaching experience.
First clip. He said Dillion should have thrown to his first read and then says he isn't sure if he even looked in that direction.
His opinion is as soon as he saw a flat-footed DB playing off with a WR running full tilt that the ball should have been in the air. That makes sense on its own.
Problem that he doesn't mention that Dillion was two and a half steps into his five-step drop and he CLEARLY looking in that direction, but his feet WEREN'T SET. He couldn't make a throw while going backwards without his feet set. By the time his feet were set the DB was back peddling and setting up as the WR was two yards away. It wasn't even and leavin'.
By the time his feet were set he after he locked that off, he checked down to his tertiary receiver who was WIDE OPEN by a F'gn mile and immediately got the ball out.
Second clip. TE Blake Whiteheart didn't make the block. Plain and simple.
Third clip. Four DBs covering three receivers as Cam Heyward is in Dillion's face.
Fourth clip. Dillion makes his drop, sets his feet as CB Jalen Ramsey nails him on a blitz because TE Fannin whiffs the blitz pickup. The film guy says the WR was wide open. Whaa? The QB is on the ground dude. On the F'ng ground. Hard to make an easy completion while eating dirt.
Fifth clip. Njoku got beat badly by Herbert and was overpowered on a failed block.
Sixth clip. Third and a frigg'n mile. Who cares but we got a completion and didn't make the mile.
Seventh clip. Pitt had 7 in the box AND the safety was up, no surprise we couldn't run.
Eighth clip. Same. He says Fannin was on Watt/mismatch but Fannin should have let the kick out block by Teller handle him and that Fannin should have found the LB. Yeah, but look at the GD play. No way in hell could have found the one guy running free from his position.
END OF THE FREE VIEWING.
My conclusion. We're starting a ton of rookies. First the QB who is 5'10 and if a D-Lineman blocks his passing lane he has to AIM HIGH. That is why many of his passes' sail over the heads of receivers. He is under duress facing constant pressure, throw in a 'rare' CB blitz that he's never seen, and it really screws things up. Side note, Jalen got TWO SACKS, his one-game career high so it was very rare.
Twelve personnel with two rookie TEs. Fannin's weakness coming in was blocking. No surprise, he's a weak blocking TE. Whiteheart 'should' be better than what he showed Sunday.
We lose ANOTHER OT as our one healthy vet OT goes down. Ball game.
Add in, the Cornerback we traded for mid-week who didn't know the defense and gave up 100 yards and a tuddie.
They get four hands on Myles every snap and Myles is playing hurt, so he's negated.
Checkers type of coaching by Tomlin who dusted off his rookie QB gameplan and simply loaded the box to stop Judkins and dared a rookie QB to beat him. That wasn't chess and Stefanski couldn't get fancy with a rookie QB in his second game with piss-poor blocking.
We're basically DOA for the rest of the year now that another OT is down.
We may be picking 1st if the Jets actually win a game and I'm not picking on them but whoof, they may not.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.
 
Last edited:
Anybody in the know shed some light on Cam Robinson + Jack Conklin injuries, their starting OT?
Deciding between Etienne vs LAR or Judkins vs MIA. But unsure how Cle run game will do if both starting OTs are out.
 
I’m reading that differently than both of you.
It's what Tomlin does.
He praises the guy he's facing that week.
Last week he said that Browns rookie QB Dillion Gabiel had "Superpowers". Yeah.
He doesn't face Andrew Berry ANY week and he probably was a little upset at the timing of the deal.
He's facing Joe Flacco who beat him last year when he came off the bench for the Colts.
Joe Flacco: Mike Tomlin was “playing the game a little bit” with his comments about trade
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
 
I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.
I'm surprised anyone hasn't figured out that HASLAM was the one who pushed for the Deshaun Watson trade, ALL of those draft picks and that guaranteed contract. That is why Berry and Stefanski get a chit.
Last draft, when Berry had a first-round pick, he made the most of it. He's been operating on a shoe-string draft budget for the past three years which is due to HASLAM.
AB has done wonders with trades.
Stefanski can't win without an O-Line or a franchise QB.
Oh, and one more thing.
Let's get this clear because it has been posted numerous times in detail.
Baker ran himself out of Cleveland. He needed time to mature.
It didn't come with his first team.
It didn't come with his second team.
It didn't come with the third team he was on.
It finally came after he SAT ANOTHER YEAR on his FOURTH team who had a solid O-Line and are teet-deep in WR talent and where they adjusted the offense for a short QB by allowing him to line up the majority of the time in the gun.
Last year's draft by AB is already producing and he's got another 1st to add to that draft next year.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
Yes I was at the game. What point are you making?
 
I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.
I'm surprised anyone hasn't figured out that HASLAM was the one who pushed for the Deshaun Watson trade, ALL of those draft picks and that guaranteed contract. That is why Berry and Stefanski get a chit.
Last draft, when Berry had a first-round pick, he made the most of it. He's been operating on a shoe-string draft budget for the past three years which is due to HASLAM.
AB has done wonders with trades.
Stefanski can't win without an O-Line or a franchise QB.
Oh, and one more thing.
Let's get this clear because it has been posted numerous times in detail.
Baker ran himself out of Cleveland. He needed time to mature.
It didn't come with his first team.
It didn't come with his second team.
It didn't come with the third team he was on.
It finally came after he SAT ANOTHER YEAR on his FOURTH team who had a solid O-Line and are teet-deep in WR talent and where they adjusted the offense for a short QB by allowing him to line up the majority of the time in the gun.
Last year's draft by AB is already producing and he's got another 1st to add to that draft next year.
Wow. Okay, didn’t realize his level of support from the fans.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
Yes I was at the game. What point are you making?

Well that’s terse. I thought it was kind of obvious I’d take a guy like Berry, who has a plan, over Mougey. Because Berry wouldn’t hire Glenn. Ever. Unless Mougey is trying to tank this year. Then I get it. But I don’t think that is the case.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
Yes I was at the game. What point are you making?

Well that’s terse. I thought it was kind of obvious I’d take a guy like Berry, who has a plan, over Mougey. Because Berry wouldn’t hire Glenn. Ever. Unless Mougey is trying to tank this year. Then I get it. But I don’t think that is the case.
I was not trying to be terse. You brought up the last 2 minutes of the first half of The Browns game and I wasn’t sure what point you are making.

I’m going to bow out of this conversation. The Browns fans don’t need a discussion between Steelers and Jets fans in their thread.
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
Yes I was at the game. What point are you making?

Well that’s terse. I thought it was kind of obvious I’d take a guy like Berry, who has a plan, over Mougey. Because Berry wouldn’t hire Glenn. Ever. Unless Mougey is trying to tank this year. Then I get it. But I don’t think that is the case.
I was not trying to be terse. You brought up the last 2 minutes of the first half of The Browns game and I wasn’t sure what point you are making.

I’m going to bow out of this conversation. The Browns fans don’t need a discussion between Steelers and Jets fans in their thread.

Ohh sir. I was figuring you would assume I was talking about the Jets since I told you that’s who I was a fan of. I understand your confusion.

Yeah this two minutes
 
Did not expect Tomlin to take a shot like this:


I’m reading that differently than both of you. I think Tomlin knows his team isn’t really all that great and that the only team that can catch them is the Bengals if Joe can eke out a few wins and Burrow maybe comes back. Considering it cost the Bengals essentially nothing why wouldn’t the Bengals try and do it and hope?

And does Tomlin know that a) Berry is indeed probably smarter than him and b) Berry doesn’t give two squirts about this year at this moment and Flacco is both useless on the bench (he’s announced publicly a few times he will not mentor young QBs and that his job is to play football and not worry about the QB room) and useless in helping Berry evaluate the two QBs he took late in this draft if Flacco is there for the coach to play him, or, even if the front office says “don’t play him” that the other players aren’t looking at Stefanski on the sidelines in a close one where the defense is keeping them in it?

The Red Sox are run similarly to the Browns. While the Sox were Billy Beane/Moneyball guys, Berry and the Browns seem to be (in their hopes) a franchise that leans on the same type of analyses. People might find it erroneous to make cross-sport comparisons, but I assure the reader that very similar methods go into it; it just manifests differently in each sport. Flacco was a burden to the Browns and wasn’t going to help while sitting the bench. What could Berry have gotten for him? Did he not ask teams? Did he only take Cincinnati’s call and refuse all the other Flacco suitors in the NFL?

I think if you follow the NFL you can answer those questions fairly easily.

Berry had so many reasons to deal Joe for such little return—any return is a positive and Joe leaving is also a positive as far as Berry is concerned.

If Tomlin isn’t scared, then he just told us how much smarter Berry really is in comparison.

I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.

I'm a Jets fan. Our owner is similar to Haslem. At least Berry is trying to build something with some sort of analysis going on. Did you seriously see the last two minutes of the first half on Sunday?
Yes I was at the game. What point are you making?

Well that’s terse. I thought it was kind of obvious I’d take a guy like Berry, who has a plan, over Mougey. Because Berry wouldn’t hire Glenn. Ever. Unless Mougey is trying to tank this year. Then I get it. But I don’t think that is the case.
I was not trying to be terse. You brought up the last 2 minutes of the first half of The Browns game and I wasn’t sure what point you are making.

I’m going to bow out of this conversation. The Browns fans don’t need a discussion between Steelers and Jets fans in their thread.

Ohh sir. I was figuring you would assume I was talking about the Jets since I told you that’s who I was a fan of. I understand your confusion.

Yeah this two minutes
I’m slow sometimes… 😀
 

I’m going to bow out of this conversation. The Browns fans don’t need a discussion between Steelers and Jets fans in their thread.

Ohh sir. I was figuring you would assume I was talking about the Jets since I told you that’s who I was a fan of. I understand your confusion.

Yeah this two minutes
I’m slow sometimes… 😀

There is no way you're slower than Aaron Glenn. Watch this if you want to feel good about your 9-8 coach and your dink and dunk QB

First, the Jets "fake" a "punt" with 1:04 to go in the 1st half and trailing 10-6 on our own 37 on 4th and 1. We have our starting OL and starting RB who has never played special teams taking the snap in the backfield and Denver's sideline apparently went nuts and so the knew and almost stopped it. There are two videos in the Tweet. The fake punt is the bottom video. Watch that for an idea. This link is below.


Then the last minute of game time is right above the fake punt video. Enjoy! And enjoy that you have Tomlin.


I posted the link again (you're slow, right 😁) right above this text again

Here is Warren Sharp's analysis of the play (I'll post in a second)

This is actually what I thought. I try not to whine like Sharp does (and I've found him off-putting at times, but this was not a talk show/internet content thing. Anyway, the first Twitter link will take you to the video. The second video link is of him and not the game so you might want to skip that one.

Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
·
Oct 13

this was the most incomprehensible sequence of plays I can recall from the fake punt onwards, literally EVERY SINGLE play call/decision is the exact opposite of what a competent team is doing in that position simply incredible

https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1977786518576972071

https://x.com/SharpFootball
Warren Sharp
https://x.com/SharpFootball
@SharpFootball
·
19h

the Jets quite literally could be the dumbest team in the NFL right nowmost of what they do doesn't make senseit culminated in this sequence and I had to break it down:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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Transcript:

Okay, this is just mind-boggling. I've
got to get it off my chest. I don't know
what we're seeing here. The New York
Jets. Think about this. You have the
football with a minute and 4 seconds
left before halftime and you have two
timeouts. You decide that you want to
fake a punt in your own territory. If
you are doing that, there's only one re
one reason you're doing that. It's to
try to score points. So, the New York
Jets decide we're faking a punt. They
get the first down and they call a
timeout with one minute to go before
halftime. But then on first down,
presumably you're trying to get about 20
more yards, kick a field goal. You
decide to run the football with Bree
Hall on a draw play. That is
mind-boggling. Point number one. Number
two, you then don't even call a timeout.
Why are you calling a run after faking
the punt? Are you actually not trying to
score? Okay, so now let's think that the
New York Jets are not trying to score.
They call a run play and you don't call
a timeout. They must not be trying to
score. But then on second down, they
decide to call a pass play. And then
they take a sack. Are they trying to
score now? They must be trying to score
now because they called a pass play.
They also then call a timeout after they
got sacked on second down. So then the
New York Jets decide that they're going
to risk it all passing the football on
third and eight, which you would only do
if you are trying to score because
otherwise you could just run out the
clock with a run play. There's only 37
seconds left in the half at this point.
They call a pass. It sets up a fourth
and one with roughly 30 seconds left
from the Jets 47 yardd line. This is a
team that is trailing 10 to six. They
might try to run another play to convert
a first down, set up a field goal, but
no, they decide not to do that. Okay,
fine. You don't run another play
immediately to try to convert a field
goal. But at the very least, you should
be looking to throw a Hail Mary with a
couple seconds left in the half because
you have nothing to lose. The clock is
running. You snap it with a couple
seconds left. It's the final play of the
half. You might catch it for a
touchdown. You might draw a defensive
penalty that allows you to get another
play. The likelihood that an
incompletion that Justin Fields throws
gets caught by the defense turned into
an interception returned all the way for
a pick six is extremely low. That entire
sequence of play calls, beginning with a
fake punt at their own 37 yard line
with a minute and 4 seconds left, made
zero sense at all. Not only did it not
make any sense, it quite literally every
single play, every single decision that
was made in succession was the exact
opposite of what any normal team would
do in that very situation.
And it was
pinballing back and forth and back and
forth between this team is seriously
trying to score to this team has no
intention of scoring to this team is
seriously trying to score to this team
has no intention of trying to score. If
I saw that out of my head coach, I would
do exactly what Garrett Wilson did,
which is lower his head, turn around
before the ball is snapped and the half
is even over and start walking backwards
away from the line of scrimmage while
the final seconds of the half ticked off
the clock, then running up to my head
coach and giving him an earful as to
what the hell are we trying to do here?

We are losing. We at least need to run
one final play. It makes no sense
whatsoever what the New York Jets were
doing in that sequence. This is a team
that has no wins on the season. What is
the worst that's going to happen? You're
going to lose a game that you're already
losing. I just don't understand this
coaching staff. I don't understand the
play calling. I don't understand the
decision-making. I don't understand anything
about the New York Jets right now. It
started before the season with their
desire to go get Justin Fields in the
first place when all the data showed
that he would not have success winning
games as a franchise caliber
quarterback. But then you have Aaron
Glenn with his decision-making as well
both in-game as well as strategically. I
don't understand what they're doing.
It's not a surprise that they have no
wins. And I don't know where this team
goes from here, but I don't think
they're going to get very many wins with
Justin Fields and Aaron Glenn as
quarterback and head coach.


Me again (rockaction). Bill Barnwell is a reporter for ESPN whose personality runs at least ten degrees cooler than mine, and he's confused:

:Bill Barnwell
@billbarnwell

How to make a disastrous fourth-down decision, Jets edition

1) Make a move at odds with the data. NGS had punting on fourth-and-1 as a 4.3% WP swing against the Jets.
2) Be indecisive. Jets lined up to go for it, then burned a timeout so they could punt. If you're going to punt, the timeout in a close game is worth more than the five yards for a delay of game.
3) Get fooled by what you've seen. Jets defense has been terrible all season. Your defense didn't suddenly get great overnight. One thing to "trust your defense" if you're the Broncos. Jets immediately gave up the field position in six plays.

https://x.com/billbarnwell/status/1977410724239474900
 
I am surprised to come into the Brown’s thread and see anyone defending Berry.
I'm surprised anyone hasn't figured out that HASLAM was the one who pushed for the Deshaun Watson trade, ALL of those draft picks and that guaranteed contract. That is why Berry and Stefanski get a chit.
Last draft, when Berry had a first-round pick, he made the most of it. He's been operating on a shoe-string draft budget for the past three years which is due to HASLAM.
AB has done wonders with trades.
Stefanski can't win without an O-Line or a franchise QB.
Oh, and one more thing.
Let's get this clear because it has been posted numerous times in detail.
Baker ran himself out of Cleveland. He needed time to mature.
It didn't come with his first team.
It didn't come with his second team.
It didn't come with the third team he was on.
It finally came after he SAT ANOTHER YEAR on his FOURTH team who had a solid O-Line and are teet-deep in WR talent and where they adjusted the offense for a short QB by allowing him to line up the majority of the time in the gun.
Last year's draft by AB is already producing and he's got another 1st to add to that draft next year.
Wow. Okay, didn’t realize his level of support from the fans.
Depends. To me, it's wrong to complain (whine) unless you offer a solution. To do that, you need to understand what's up. It's nearly impossible to have the inside info needed. I choose to grant the benefit of the doubt and stay positive.
 

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