Galileo
Footballguy
Can I come?
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2025 Cleveland Browns - OTAs (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
beer 30
Footballguy
I don't see this turning around anytime soon. Told my Brown's buddies I don't need to make time for this team in it's current state. I've given them decades of support and I've seen this particular movie a number of times already. No sense just getting more pissed off on Sundays, I have better things to do than watch this ****.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I dunno, our youth football team is on the brink of breaking too. Maybe I'm the problem
amnesiac
beer is good
next two weeks have the potential to be particularly brutal.This offseason was all about making #4 comfortable or... a scapegoat. I'm looking at what the Browns did and drawing parallels to what the Cavs (and others) did to placate LeBron. The difference is the player LeBron was able to overcome the mistakes of GM LeBron, which is feasible when you're 1 of 5 instead of 1 of 22*. I think they lost faith in him, but felt it was important to position him to prove them wrong. And if he didn't, then this team would be better positioned to turn the page.
4-5 wins...maybe. This offense just doesn't work with 4 at the helm which makes me wonder wtf they are talking about when they say they have tailored it to his abilities? 2020 Deshaun Watson ain't walking through that door. He's not even a decent backup at this point. The OL has fallen off a cliff. Age, injuries and the loss of the best OL coach in the business has had a yuge impact. Myles is going to play hurt all year and it sure seems to be hampering him. The vaunted DB's are not living up to the hype. Hell even the kicker missed an XP. Whole team is in disarray right now.
Something is rotten inside the locker room and it all starts with #4. Neither the offense nor defense were an issue last year, the sum of their parts exceeded what they should've been capable of. Now? It is a collection of individuals that does not trust each other. I think we saw an urgency from #4 we haven't to this point. I think he knows he's losing, or has lost, the locker room. There were flashes of the 2020 version, but he's not that guy anymore and they know it. We've yet to top 20 points in a game and are 1-3 against a cake easy schedule- next up?
@ WASH
@ PHI (after their bye)
v CIN
v BAL
v LAC
If we had anyone but Stefanski, I would pencil in 1-8 right now, culminating with a 16-0 style road grading by Harbaugh's run game. He thrives under chaos though. Winning in Washington against one of the league's hottest team would be peak Browns. After creating ways to lose against bottom feeders, find a way in a game we have no business winning. It'd defy logic is all- this team is on the brink of a mutiny. I'm glad we have other plans the next 2 Sunday's...
being 1-5 is going to get someone fired.
they'll need a scapegoat.
Dorsey maybe?
Chemical X
Footballguy
is deshaun watson shot?
MAC_32
Footballguy
This leadership group is patient, sometimes to a fault. If it goes full blown off the rails the trade deadline is after the Chargers game and kicks off the Browns bye. That's when you'd see moves. Between now and then they'll have Njoku and Chubb to distract. Maybe one of the OT's and / or Teller too.next two weeks have the potential to be particularly brutal.This offseason was all about making #4 comfortable or... a scapegoat. I'm looking at what the Browns did and drawing parallels to what the Cavs (and others) did to placate LeBron. The difference is the player LeBron was able to overcome the mistakes of GM LeBron, which is feasible when you're 1 of 5 instead of 1 of 22*. I think they lost faith in him, but felt it was important to position him to prove them wrong. And if he didn't, then this team would be better positioned to turn the page.
4-5 wins...maybe. This offense just doesn't work with 4 at the helm which makes me wonder wtf they are talking about when they say they have tailored it to his abilities? 2020 Deshaun Watson ain't walking through that door. He's not even a decent backup at this point. The OL has fallen off a cliff. Age, injuries and the loss of the best OL coach in the business has had a yuge impact. Myles is going to play hurt all year and it sure seems to be hampering him. The vaunted DB's are not living up to the hype. Hell even the kicker missed an XP. Whole team is in disarray right now.
Something is rotten inside the locker room and it all starts with #4. Neither the offense nor defense were an issue last year, the sum of their parts exceeded what they should've been capable of. Now? It is a collection of individuals that does not trust each other. I think we saw an urgency from #4 we haven't to this point. I think he knows he's losing, or has lost, the locker room. There were flashes of the 2020 version, but he's not that guy anymore and they know it. We've yet to top 20 points in a game and are 1-3 against a cake easy schedule- next up?
@ WASH
@ PHI (after their bye)
v CIN
v BAL
v LAC
If we had anyone but Stefanski, I would pencil in 1-8 right now, culminating with a 16-0 style road grading by Harbaugh's run game. He thrives under chaos though. Winning in Washington against one of the league's hottest team would be peak Browns. After creating ways to lose against bottom feeders, find a way in a game we have no business winning. It'd defy logic is all- this team is on the brink of a mutiny. I'm glad we have other plans the next 2 Sunday's...
being 1-5 is going to get someone fired.
they'll need a scapegoat.
Dorsey maybe?
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's funny because it's true.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
I actually thought he was solid yesterday. Seems a lot of sportswriters didn't watch the game. OLine was brutal as was his WRs.
Peak
Footballguy
He was avg...and that was against the worst ranked defense in the league. His numbers were pedestrian (176, 1td, 1int). He made a couple of questionable decisions that could've extended drives (throwing for 3yrds when you need 11, throwing a bomb when you only needed 3yds, falling down on yard short on a scramble because he didn't want to get hit). I agree that others had their faults, but he wasn't the answer yesterday either. He did well enough to win the game if a hold wasn't called or a WR didn't drop a ball, or if the OL wasn't a sieve. But I would expect a franchise QB to do more than average against the worst defense in the league. Instead, the Raiders Defense looked like a playoff caliber defense all day. Outside of the opening drive, the entire team played like they had no urgency, no leadership. They were just going through the motions. Watson included.
beer 30
Footballguy
See that's where I'm at, we've played two of the worst teams in the league the last two weeks and we've looked terrible both weeks. I just can't deal with this **** anymore. The grumpy old man in me is coming out harder than usual this season. I think my mortality is coming to bear.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Just make sure those damn kids don't walk on your lawn. Ha ha
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Where do you suppose the Browns would be this season ( and don't tell me "Cleveland") if Baker were QB? Or even Flacco?
beer 30
Footballguy
Oof, too soon
MAC_32
Footballguy
Flacco? No better than last year. Flirt with the playoffs then eventually get pounced by someone better. I think the same thing would happen if a switch were made to Jameis.
Baker's going to be a popular hypothetical, but I don't see the value in the exercise. Not because of the narrative that is being fed and will continue to, but because he lost the locker room here, beginning and end of story. I don't think he's equipped to get Tampa over the hump, but am confident he'll get them in position and won't repeat the mistakes he made here when adversity hits. On one hand, it's too bad 2021 played out like it did because I thought he was the answer, but just couldn't get out of his own way. On the other hand, I don't think he is what he is now without first going through that experience.
beer 30
Footballguy
You see what he said about Brady's locker room in Tampa recently, last week I think? He's matured but he does stuff like that and it makes me think he's still not there yet. No need to voice that at the podium, especially about a guy that has 7 rings. I think your assessment is spot on about him.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think he'll always have those warts and ultimately that's why I'd bet on him falling short. The chip on his shoulder will get him further than mere mortals, but big spots are still too big for him. Maybe a team this strong could carry him over the top, but he's a trailer; not tractor.
beer 30
Footballguy
Not according to coach post game presser.
I don’t see how this doesn’t end with Stefanski getting fired. Watson walking off the field deserves a benching, even a healthy scratch, go home in my book but there is no way it’s going to happen so Stefanski is the scapegoat. Shame, I like Kevin and think he really is a good coach, just has a **** QB that he can’t do anything with.
top dog
Footballguy
Agreed. Damn shame too because Stefanski IS a good coach. Can't believe we managed to top the Hershel Walker trade as "worst of all time".
daveR
Footballguy
I have convinced myself that the Browns have chosen to play modern "chuck & duck" offense. That is, getting five into the pattern and pressuring the D. The idea is to use the QB's mobility to take advantage of blitzes & stunts. Whatever it is, the NFL has adjusted with pressure, and we can't handle it. IMO, they had better revert to a better mixture of formations and blocking, cause Watson's not the guy for this. Maybe Chubb's return will influence the decision.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Oh, I think this could very easily end with Stefanski intact, and most of the other key players. Everything this offseason was done to make Watson more comfortable...or the scapegoat. Agenda season will answer those questions, which may or may not begin before the trade deadline. Much like this past weekend, I am thrilled we have other plans this Sunday. Hopefully, our middle schoolers win, so we'll also have plans the Sunday after.
beer 30
Footballguy
I intentionally didn't watch or track the game yesterday just to test the waters. Not gonna lie, it was pretty glorious not getting worked up over a team that doesn't give a **** anymore. I highly recommend it. Haven't ignored the Browns since 1-31 and this has all the vibes of a repeat.
Major
Footballguy
Any links? I just saw the one of Watson walking off and Stefanski looking deflated.
beer 30
Footballguy
Um...that's it
-OZ-
Footballguy
Frankly, the browns right now represent everything wrong with professional sports. Dudes getting paid way too much, organizations condoning or ignoring **** conduct, fans caring more than the players or management seem to.
Just shut the whole thing down.
higgins
Footballguy
Fox morning sports radio guys were saying that would be deflating for the fans (without context) but….
…. apparently there were 12 guys in their huddle. At that point, delay of game was inevitable. Watson was just disappointed from the 12-guys situation he just walked out of.
Note: I didn’t watch the game — just pointing out what I heard on the radio — Brady Quinn closed the segment out by saying “context matters”.
Major
Footballguy
Hearing about Stefanski screaming at Watson was something I thought I missed but looks like that was exaggerated.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I saw a story that said they had 12 guys in the huddle, so Watson knew it was going to be a penalty and they couldn't run the play.
ETA: I see this was already pointed out by someone.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Obviously, this is MUCH MORE than just the QB.
Supply/Demand.
Over supply of lousy football = no demand
Why bother?
Galileo
Footballguy
or fire Stefanski...not that I am calling for this, but somebody is going to be a casualty in the near future.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Probably Dorsey. He was brought in to install a system that makes Watson more comfortable, one that Stefanski is unfamiliar with. I don't know this for a fact, but I think the move from AVP to him is why we lost Callahan. Even he may not have worked his miracles with the healthy pieces of this OL, and they may benefit from a new voice anyway, but Dickerson sure doesn't appear part of the solution. But anyway, the disorganization we're seeing starts with this system. The persistent alignment and motion issues are hilarious because I find stupidity funny, but even when they line up right Watson ineptly trying to run this thing is a comedy of errors. Foolhardy to point the finger anywhere else. Dude's lazy with his feet, misses his reads, runs into a sack, repeat. It's amateur hour.
On one hand, this season and this iteration of the team is sunk, so keep firing him out there to embarrass himself and improve our draft standing so we can start to rebuild. Again. We aren't going to win another game with him under center. On the other hand, this is a veteran laden team that has shown it can be competitive despite poor QB play. That stadium is going to be loud a week from Sunday. Very loud. From before opening kick. Not in a good way. And it's the first of 3 in a row at home before the bye. Maybe Watson starts to give the fans a final one finger salute, but I can't imagine how he can finish that game. Let him listen to the fans from the sideline before telling him to stay him from now until eternity. Then give Jameis a 2 1/2 game cameo and if he doesn't have a Flacco-esque renaissance turn the page to DTR and see if he can serve as an effective bridge. It's not like a QB #1 is going to save this iteration of the team, so start rebuilding with an eye on 2-3 years from now to course correct.
Fun team.
Peak
Footballguy
I just don't get the "fire Stefanski" thing, like that will resolve the issue. Watson and his lackadaisical attitude is still on the team. Any coach will have to deal with Watson and his attitude. I'm sure that will turn viable candidates away. Haslam will just hire another scapegoat coach until Watson's contract expires. It's pointless, IMO.
Bench Watson. Make him the Emergency QB. Humble him, if that's even possible. He has nothing to worry about as he's got his money guaranteed. Everyone else is playing for a paycheck, or to get cut and go somewhere better. They have to pay Watson regardless, so put him on the bench. Put Winston in and see how the players respond. Most likely it'll be a positive change resulting in fewer penalties and less drops.
This team has a lot of issues, but I think the big ones can be resolved by benching and humbling Watson. But we all know Haslam won't admit to making a mistake, so he won't let that happen.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If we cut Watson right now, what are the cap ramifications and for which years?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If the whole cap hit is next year, no joke, I'm all for a complete blowup. Trade everyone, including Myles, Ward........everyone of value who isn't under 25 or 26.
We have zero chance right now and won't for a few years even if we do try and win.
We have zero chance right now and won't for a few years even if we do try and win.
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
One thing I found interesting was the scoring breakdown by quarter.
1Q: Cleveland 27 Opponents 21
2Q: Cleveland 9 Opponents 57
3Q: Cleveland 13 Opponents 37
4Q: Cleveland 30 Opponents 6
I'm not sure what is going on in the second quarter. In their 4 defeats they've been outscored 54 to 3, out gained 565 to 137, and out Time of Possession 41:19 to 18:41. They're supposed to have one of the top defenses in the league but giving up an average of 13.5 points and 141.25 yards in a quarter is not good. Their problem this year is Watson, the offensive line, the HC, OC, and DC, and a lot of untimely penalties (roughing the passer on an INT against the Giants and holding on an 80-yard touchdown against the Raiders).
1Q: Cleveland 27 Opponents 21
2Q: Cleveland 9 Opponents 57
3Q: Cleveland 13 Opponents 37
4Q: Cleveland 30 Opponents 6
I'm not sure what is going on in the second quarter. In their 4 defeats they've been outscored 54 to 3, out gained 565 to 137, and out Time of Possession 41:19 to 18:41. They're supposed to have one of the top defenses in the league but giving up an average of 13.5 points and 141.25 yards in a quarter is not good. Their problem this year is Watson, the offensive line, the HC, OC, and DC, and a lot of untimely penalties (roughing the passer on an INT against the Giants and holding on an 80-yard touchdown against the Raiders).
MAC_32
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I don't see the answer there
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I looked at something that shows what would happen if they cut Watson after this season.
2025 dead cap around 115 million
2026 dead cap around 55 million.
I'm in the camp of being on board if they did it and basically 0-34 their way through the next two years. Otherwise we are starting at at least 5 straight awful seasons
2025 dead cap around 115 million
2026 dead cap around 55 million.
I'm in the camp of being on board if they did it and basically 0-34 their way through the next two years. Otherwise we are starting at at least 5 straight awful seasons
beer 30
Footballguy
Good for you
Major
Footballguy
maybe do a Brock Osweiller type thing? Deshaun and 3 1st round picks might entice someone.
I think their chances of getting a high draft pick might actually be better if he plays. so might as well let him play out the year. Maybe draft a QB to replace him with or just trade the pick to a team wanting a high pick for future years picks. eventually the draft picks will be stockpiled to a point where you can draft all the players you want, get a good young QB and sit Desean while you continue to pay him.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Correct. You need to create ~100m of cap space
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Trade.........everyone.
2025 would be expansion year 1
beer 30
Footballguy
I don't know if you've seen DeShaun play this year but Brock would be an upgrade...and we don't have three 1's
You're not familiar with the Cleveland Browns, are you?
Don't ever change, you're a treasure
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Do you have a better suggestion as to a path for a winning season again in the next 5 years?
I think a contract like this makes it near impossible to have a winning season unless Watson actually performs. I suppose you could always bring in a Flacco or an Andy Dalton and they may even get you to the playoffs, but a superbowl is likely off the table unless the rest of your lineup is so stacked they cannot fail.
