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2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Draft, FAs, trades? (115 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
I don't know in particular, but you have to assume Caldwell and JBC are going to give that running game a complete overhaul. Because if it looks anything like it did this past year, Caldwell won't be around long enough for it to matter.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
What do you envision a complete overhaul looking like? They changed the blocking scheme form ZBS to more straight ahead fire out at the guy in front of you mid-season, so in a sense they did overhaul it to the extent they could. We have a lot of needs along the offensive line. so if you're spending high picks and money plugging those gaps I wonder where the RBs will come from? Though I suppose in the last few years you could say Day 3 given how often mid/late-round guys and UDFA end up in a time share.
I'll trust Quinn until he provides evidence to the contrary, but I would think a Conklin/Decker type LT is their highest need. Move Reiff over to RT, resign Ola and Ramirez for depth/versatility. Tomlinson improved as the season went along, hopefully he'll continue to progress. I guess with Swanson's surgery we're supposed to give him a pass - he was a horrible blocking C last year! Warford went from top 5 at his position to bottom 5 - hurt all year, do you just hope for the best? So much work needs to be done up front.
I suppose they could save the $2.5M cap hit and cut Joique. I get the sense they might be thinking year two coming off surgery he'll be better (hard to imagine him being worse.) I don't think ZZ is anything special but he'll get another look. Seems to have a lot of believers.
They are almost surely going OT/ILB/DT with the first three picks. They don't have a third rounder but do have a Compensatory. Fifth round they have three picks (including another Compensatory.) They have an extra Sixth Rounder - ten picks total.
Looking forward to what Quinn and his team dial up in 99 days.
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I love that you asked the question and then proceeded to give a far more detailed answer than I could possibly have imagined coming up with. So, uh, what you said.
But speaking in far less specific terms, I was mostly thinking that Riddick's expanded role this year seemed to be connected to the horrible play of everyone else. (Remember when we were debating whether AA would be a third-down Gio type, or take over the entire job? That was fun.) Now, maybe Riddick showed enough this year to keep his third-down role, but if I had to guess, if they're able to get more out of the RB position on first and second -- and really, how could they get any less -- that would have to cut into his workload, either because they're in fewer third and long situations or because the other RBs are doing well enough to earn some third-down work.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I love that you asked the question and then proceeded to give a far more detailed answer than I could possibly have imagined coming up with. So, uh, what you said.
But speaking in far less specific terms, I was mostly thinking that Riddick's expanded role this year seemed to be connected to the horrible play of everyone else. (Remember when we were debating whether AA would be a third-down Gio type, or take over the entire job? That was fun.) Now, maybe Riddick showed enough this year to keep his third-down role, but if I had to guess, if they're able to get more out of the RB position on first and second -- and really, how could they get any less -- that would have to cut into his workload, either because they're in fewer third and long situations or because the other RBs are doing well enough to earn some third-down work.
@ the bolded. Just spit ballin' here.It's a legitimate question if you should believe what you saw this year. The Lions had a tough opening schedule and went 0-5/1-7. With a far easier schedule in the second half they went 6-2 (losses to GB on the Fail Mary and in StL - I attribute the latter to the MNF hangover effect.) So is Stafford the guy who looked awful in the first half or the guy who played like a Pro Bowler in the second half? The run game averaged 69.63 before the bye and 97.25 after Phenomenal Cooter took over. Other than picking up Ola off the street (and he was solid), pretty much the same personnel.
We've seen this script before. False hope from beating bad teams, but not being good enough to legitimately compete for the SB. They had a tough schedule this year, they'll have a far easier schedule next year. So if they win 9-10-11 and squeak into the tournament only to lose yet another road playoff game....
I'd like to be optimistic and hope they are on the right path and have the right leadership at GM and in the scouting department. I like both our coordinators. We have some pieces and a few good/great players, but it doesn't feel like we're close by any means.
There is a lot of history to overcome. But I keep going back to the Steelers before 1972 or the Patriots before BB/TB or the Cardinals before Warner and then Arians. We've seen historically bad franchises turn it around.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Regarding the offensive philosophy, I do wish they would be comfortable using the same back for an entire series. Commit to AA, at least in alternating series. With a handful of exceptions nobody believes in having a bell cow - but it's easier for two guys alternating series to get in a rhythm than 3 guys with obvious limited roles playing the same drive.
As far as their passing attack goes, they do settle for the underneath stuff too much. Even if we presume Calvin returns, Tate led the league in passes caught at or behind the line of scrimmage. Detroit was tied with the Chargers for most receptions by RBs. The TE seam route is almost non-existent. At times Lance Moore had Stafford's confidence but is he really a threat? TJ Jones? The WR corps is pretty underwhelming, but given the needs elsewhere I don't see this being addressed.
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TartanLion
Footballguy
^^^ great post a couple above re our overall situation, Bobby Layne.
The Abdullah/Riddick conundrum fries my brain a little. I LOVE Riddick as a player. He's probably near being just about my favourite player on the roster. Great attitude, very safe hands, live his moves on the open field. However, when you draft an RB in the 2nd round you surely have relatively big plans for that player. You have a belief in that players potential to yield good results. I want to see Abdullah given the best opportunities/situations in order to succeed. In order for that to happen, it has to eat into some of Riddicks screen passes etc. Abdullah did alright at times last season and that was mostly without him even being put in the correct situations to succeed. He needs more series to get a flow, he needs more plays to get him in the open field. Tough one for me to figure out. Part of me thinks Riddicks involvement is sustained by pretty much being a quasi slot receiver for us.
Id like to see TJ Jones continue to get a chance. He hasn't really put up any figures but he looks pretty quick, sharp and explosive to me. In comparison to Fuller or Moore anyway.
The Abdullah/Riddick conundrum fries my brain a little. I LOVE Riddick as a player. He's probably near being just about my favourite player on the roster. Great attitude, very safe hands, live his moves on the open field. However, when you draft an RB in the 2nd round you surely have relatively big plans for that player. You have a belief in that players potential to yield good results. I want to see Abdullah given the best opportunities/situations in order to succeed. In order for that to happen, it has to eat into some of Riddicks screen passes etc. Abdullah did alright at times last season and that was mostly without him even being put in the correct situations to succeed. He needs more series to get a flow, he needs more plays to get him in the open field. Tough one for me to figure out. Part of me thinks Riddicks involvement is sustained by pretty much being a quasi slot receiver for us.
Id like to see TJ Jones continue to get a chance. He hasn't really put up any figures but he looks pretty quick, sharp and explosive to me. In comparison to Fuller or Moore anyway.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Riddick is a former WR. Given how thin we are there, why not turn him into a poor mans Randal Cobb & line him up in the slot more?
Unless Xanders finds an UDFA, I don't envision any rookie WRs being added.
The Lions have at least $20M in cap space going into this FA signing period - seems like that is more than any other season in the Stafford era. Great opportunity for Quinn.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
What kind of role does Zach Zenner potentially have?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Lions fired another longtime member of their personnel staff Friday, dismissing senior vice president of football operations Cedric Saunders, according to league sources.
The sources requested anonymity because the Lions had not yet announced the decision.
Saunders had been with the Lions for 10 years and was one of the top lieutenants for former general manager Martin Mayhew.
jkatzenstein@detroitnews.com
The sources requested anonymity because the Lions had not yet announced the decision.
Saunders had been with the Lions for 10 years and was one of the top lieutenants for former general manager Martin Mayhew.
jkatzenstein@detroitnews.com
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
has Xanders been retained?
Ladsud
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Quinn has an intense job. Martha Firestone Ford wants a winner. Anyone associated with the losing culture and doing the same ole things must go. I too am liking what I am seeing out of Quinn. He is methodically assessing each person's role and whether they are retained or let go.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That's a dynamic I'm interested in as well. BX has done a really good job at evaluating/signing UDFA immediately after the draft ends.
They say Quinn spent 12 hours with Caldwell before he made the call. He's not afraid to make decisions but I get the impression he is not being rash, but rather evaluating each individual. He's got full control over personnel so you have to give him this kind of free reign in assembling the team he wants.
This is refreshing stuff to see from the Lions. We all know brown nosers kept their jobs for decades around there. Now we're actually seeing what it looks like when someone holds other people accountable. Very, very early in his tenure but I fully support what we have seen so far.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I'd say there is a decent chance he'll take over the Joique role next year. None of the 4-5 broken ribs were displaced so he was able to resume workouts fairly quickly.
Personally I don't think he will have FF relevance, but others have a different opinion.
Sinrman
Footballguy
7-9
I think it was either that, or 8-8 was my prediction for the year. I said that at the beginning simply because of the difficulty of the schedule. Man that was pretty rough! And yes, we were literally 2 plays away (GB and SEA) from being 9-7, I get that.
What I DIDN'T foresee was how it would unfold. There were several games in the first half of the season I thought we would win, and flopped. The strong second half, however, is encouraging. It tells me that we are still just a few pieces away from being strong contenders. I was not on the "Fire Caldwell!" bandwagon, but wouldn't have shed any tears if he had been. I just hope they can improve in the areas we need it, and PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE Megatron, don't retire!
I think it was either that, or 8-8 was my prediction for the year. I said that at the beginning simply because of the difficulty of the schedule. Man that was pretty rough! And yes, we were literally 2 plays away (GB and SEA) from being 9-7, I get that.
What I DIDN'T foresee was how it would unfold. There were several games in the first half of the season I thought we would win, and flopped. The strong second half, however, is encouraging. It tells me that we are still just a few pieces away from being strong contenders. I was not on the "Fire Caldwell!" bandwagon, but wouldn't have shed any tears if he had been. I just hope they can improve in the areas we need it, and PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE Megatron, don't retire!
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Quinn also relieved coordinator of physical development Jason Arapoff and assistant strength coach Ted Rath of their duties.
In an interview with NFL Radio on Sirius XM this week, Quinn highlighted the importance of the strength and conditioning staff.
"There are a few important rooms in this building, in any football building, and I think the strength and conditioning, the weight room, is one of those important rooms," Quinn said. "I think the leader of that room is a very, very important figure in this organization.
"Those guys spend more time with the players than anyone else does, when you really think about it," Quinn continued. "They're always down there. If they're not doing a lifting session, they might be down there stretching, they might be down there getting a shake from the nutrition center. To have strong leadership in that position is very important to me."
The Captain
Footballguy
Xanders interviewing with the Browns
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2016/01/report_lions_executive_brian_x.html#incart_river_mobile_index
imjackdupp
Footballguy
The Captain
Footballguy
Now that Calvin's retirement is official, what does everyone want the Lions to do at WR?
I know I'm hoping they don't overpay for an average WR like Jones or Benjamin. I'd rather they grab a stop gap like Boldin and draft someone in the 3rd to develop. Too many other needs (OL, DT) to go big on a WR in a weak draft and free agent class.
I know I'm hoping they don't overpay for an average WR like Jones or Benjamin. I'd rather they grab a stop gap like Boldin and draft someone in the 3rd to develop. Too many other needs (OL, DT) to go big on a WR in a weak draft and free agent class.
Next year's WR class is going to be significantly worse. There's actually quite a few interesting WR prospects this year, but no uber stud.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Build the lines, draft dt, go spend on Alex Mack, a number of decent tackles both right and left in free agency, let fuller and jones have a shot. I know spending in free agency is "not how you build" but there are decent fas to add at weak spots like oline and secondary. Not so much at wr, so roll with the guys you've been developing, right? The offense should go thru Tate/Ebron/rbs anyway, so what do the lions really need there?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Per Faust Mr. Jones is the new WR:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642610/article/marvin-jones-to-sign-with-detroit-lions
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000642610/article/marvin-jones-to-sign-with-detroit-lions
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Love your avatarThey had to get somebody and he was one of the best options, if not the best available. The reported $ amount seems a little crazy though. Then again I thought they overpaid for Tate too and has worked out.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Love what Bob is doing this offseason. It's freaking me out a little bit, because for once - it feels like the Lions (Bob) are making smart football decisions.
i think the Marvin Jones signing was very nice. He's not spectacular by any means, but he is consistent and reliable - no nonsense type WR.
I even love the low key DB/ST signings. To me it screams "things are different now, we are going to conduct ourselves like an actual football organization"
... And holy balls, let's not let Russell Okung leave without a contract. He would be exactly what we need on that offensive line. Opens up the entire draft to take BPA.
Caldwell is meh - but let Bobby Quinn put the pieces in place, Cooter and Austin run their respective teams - the future is looking nice for us fellas.
i think the Marvin Jones signing was very nice. He's not spectacular by any means, but he is consistent and reliable - no nonsense type WR.
I even love the low key DB/ST signings. To me it screams "things are different now, we are going to conduct ourselves like an actual football organization"
... And holy balls, let's not let Russell Okung leave without a contract. He would be exactly what we need on that offensive line. Opens up the entire draft to take BPA.
Caldwell is meh - but let Bobby Quinn put the pieces in place, Cooter and Austin run their respective teams - the future is looking nice for us fellas.
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massraider
Footballguy
Jones/Tate/Whitehead for same price as Calvin.They had to get somebody and he was one of the best options, if not the best available. The reported $ amount seems a little crazy though. Then again I thought they overpaid for Tate too and has worked out.
Solid.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Quick summary of the Lions off-season moves:
Lost:
Joquie Bell - Cut
Calvin to Retirement
Isa Abdul-Quddus- safety - signs with Miami
Rashean Mathis - reitred
Signed or Re-Signed:
Marvin Jones - WR - Cincy
Rafeal Bush - Saftey - NO
Crezdon butler - Saftey - resigns
Don Mulbach - LS - resigns
Stephan Charles - DT - Bills
Johnson Bademosi - CB - Clev - special team ace
Tahir Whitehead - LB - resigns
Tavon Wislon - Saftey - NE - resigns
Tyrunn Walker - resigns
Haloti Hgata - resigns
Dan Orlovsky - re-signs
Lost:
Joquie Bell - Cut
Calvin to Retirement
Isa Abdul-Quddus- safety - signs with Miami
Rashean Mathis - reitred
Signed or Re-Signed:
Marvin Jones - WR - Cincy
Rafeal Bush - Saftey - NO
Crezdon butler - Saftey - resigns
Don Mulbach - LS - resigns
Stephan Charles - DT - Bills
Johnson Bademosi - CB - Clev - special team ace
Tahir Whitehead - LB - resigns
Tavon Wislon - Saftey - NE - resigns
Tyrunn Walker - resigns
Haloti Hgata - resigns
Dan Orlovsky - re-signs
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
When the Levy doesn't break:
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/03/23/deandre-levy-injury-detroit-lions/82161408/
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/03/23/deandre-levy-injury-detroit-lions/82161408/
massraider
Footballguy
Need a Lion fan for SP mock. Let me know.
TartanLion
Footballguy
I could give it a go perhaps, although my knowledge isn't the best I've been doing a good few mocks this week !
Here's one I just did...
16: R1P16
OT JACK CONKLIN
MICHIGAN STATE
46: R2P15
DT VERNON BUTLER
LOUISIANA TECH
95: R3P32
C MAX TUERK
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
111: R4P13
OLB DEION JONES
LSU
151: R5P12
WR MALCOLM MITCHELL
GEORGIA
169: R5P30
DE JASON FANAIKA
UTAH
191: R6P16
CB CLEVELAND WALLACE
SAN JOSE STATE
202: R6P27
S KEVIN BYARD
MIDDLE TENNESSEE
210: R6P35
QB MIKE BERCOVICI
ARIZONA STATE
I was quite happy with this one. Conklin fell to me in the 1st and hopefully shores up the O Line somewhat. Wanted to hold on to round 2 for the DT depth and Vernon Butler is someone I know we've looked at closely. I like Tuerk in the 3rd, he can compete with Swanson at C, but seems to be adaptable with the possibility of playing elsewhere. Jones in the 4th seemed like crazy good value. The rest I will admit to looking up NFL scout grades and trying to pick the best whilst filling needs, although I am deferring to Waldman and repeatedly picking up Berkovici as a late flyer QB choice.
Here's one I just did...
16: R1P16
OT JACK CONKLIN
MICHIGAN STATE
46: R2P15
DT VERNON BUTLER
LOUISIANA TECH
95: R3P32
C MAX TUERK
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
111: R4P13
OLB DEION JONES
LSU
151: R5P12
WR MALCOLM MITCHELL
GEORGIA
169: R5P30
DE JASON FANAIKA
UTAH
191: R6P16
CB CLEVELAND WALLACE
SAN JOSE STATE
202: R6P27
S KEVIN BYARD
MIDDLE TENNESSEE
210: R6P35
QB MIKE BERCOVICI
ARIZONA STATE
I was quite happy with this one. Conklin fell to me in the 1st and hopefully shores up the O Line somewhat. Wanted to hold on to round 2 for the DT depth and Vernon Butler is someone I know we've looked at closely. I like Tuerk in the 3rd, he can compete with Swanson at C, but seems to be adaptable with the possibility of playing elsewhere. Jones in the 4th seemed like crazy good value. The rest I will admit to looking up NFL scout grades and trying to pick the best whilst filling needs, although I am deferring to Waldman and repeatedly picking up Berkovici as a late flyer QB choice.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Going to say that just about any position in the front D7 or 5 OL would be ok in the 1st round, best guy available within those perimeters. The other 12 positions can wait to later days. Quinn seems like a sharp guy, lets hope it's really true.
The Captain
Footballguy
Best OL/DL available is good for me. If it's between the 4th OT ( Decker)and the #1 C (kelly) I'd take the center. I think it would be more impactful as it helps both Warford and Tomlinson.
Praying Quinn is the real deal.
The Captain
Footballguy
Wonder if they considered moving up for Tunsil. I would have offered up a 4th to move up a couple spots.
The Captain
Footballguy
UghThe Captain said:
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
I think they may have taken a chance had he fallen but I never thought they would move up.
The Captain
Footballguy
Really wanted Kelly after Tunsil was gone. Feels like Gosder Cherilus all over again.
Fingers crossed Quinn knows what he's doing.
Fingers crossed Quinn knows what he's doing.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
Pretty much agree. Given how terrible their line was last year...especially right tackle...and based on who else was available, it was probably their best option. Not overwhelmed but this part of the draft was pretty weak imo. Probably give them a B. Not great, not bad, but solid and safe.
I think that 3rd Mayhew traded last year (to draft Gabe Wright :X ) prevented the Lions from moving up. My gut thinks Quinn wanted to trade up but he didn't have much to work with without a 3rd.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Safe uninspiring pick. Apparent pass protection flaws leave me questioning this choice, but I like what I have read about his character and solidity in the run game.
I dunno, I think I would have gone with Lawson, Kelly or Jack here. Or traded down.
I dunno, I think I would have gone with Lawson, Kelly or Jack here. Or traded down.
