kutta
Footballguy
As a Cardinals’ season ticket holder, I can verify that the Cardinals play indoors. They have a retractable roof, but it’s only open when the weather is nice. They do have natural grass however.
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2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Rags retires before camp. (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Rams are still going to be tough to deal with. After a bad start they were playing as well as anyone last half of the season.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
This sounds about right for Detroit. Last year really was their best opportunity before the injuries, but they are still very plausible contenders.
I've been thinking a lot about Denver in '96-'97. They built this juggernaut and dominated the league on their way to the 1-seed, then honked the divisional game vs the Jags. Next year they regressed in the regular season and didn't even win their division, but by the time of the playoffs they were firing on all cylinders and went on to win their first of two straight Super Bowls.
(Of course, last year my go-to example was the '17 Eagles, who seemed doomed by injuries but put it all together for a playoff run. So take my historical comparisons with a grain of salt)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Exploring what an extension that keeps Alex Anzalone in Detroit for remainder of his career could look like
Allen Park — Trey Hendrickson's situation in Cincinnati highlights a longstanding inequity in the balance of power with NFL contracts.
For the vast majority of deals, teams can move on after a year or two with minimal financial ramifications if a player isn't performing to expectations, or, worse yet, when a cheaper alternative is obtained via the draft.
But what if a player outperforms their contract, meriting a raise? It’s rare that a team willingly cuts a check earlier than necessary to reward exceptional performance.
When Hendrickson signed a four-year, $60 million contract with the Bengals in 2021, it was a relatively good deal for a player with only one year of high-level production. It wasn't top 10 for his position, but it registered just outside that range.
Now, 57.0 sacks, four Pro Bowl selections and 2024 All-Pro honors later, he is unquestionably underpaid. A handful of edge rushers at the top of the market are currently paid more than double what Hendrickson signed for in 2021. And as he approaches his 31st birthday, the window to maximize his earnings is closing rapidly.
That's why Hendrickson recently told the world he won't play this season on the current deal. Holding out isn't ideal, but it's the most powerful option a player has to gain leverage while under contract.
That brings us to Detroit Lions linebacker Alex Anzalone. While his situation isn't toxic, like it is between Hendrickson and the Bengals, there are similarities.
Anzalone has outplayed his current deal. Going into the final year of the contract, he's underpaid, and his window to cash in is closing. As it stands, he's not participating in the voluntary portion of the offseason program. That’s not necessarily new for him, and there's no imminent threat of a holdout. However, the veteran defender's recent social media postings, including since-deleted support of Hendrickson, strongly indicate Anzalone would like a new deal.
Will he get it? Well, that remains to be seen. The sides have been in communication, and the current front office has built a strong reputation on rewarding its own, handing out several significant extensions in recent years. Nonetheless, the conversation is admittedly different with a player who will be 31 years old at the start of the next deal.
Anzalone's importance, both to the culture and on the field, shouldn’t be understated, with the latter definitively driven home during his injury-related absence last season. Still, contracts are for future contributions, not past performance. While there's been no sign of decline at this stage, predicting that eventual inevitability is part of managing a roster.
Anzalone's next contract could very well be his last. The desire to make the most of this opportunity is exacerbated by unfortunate circumstances and poor timing in previous negotiations, which have limited past earnings. After his cost-controlled rookie contract expired, durability concerns forced him to take back-to-back prove-it deals with the Lions before securing his current three-year, $18 million pact. That ink had barely dried before the cap sharply spiked, inflating the next wave of contracts.
Look no further than teammate Derrick Barnes, a player Anzalone has mentored. A fourth-round pick in 2021, Barnes has slowly morphed into an important defensive piece for the Lions. And even though he struggled his first two seasons and missed most of the 2024 campaign with an injury, the Lions still rewarded him with a three-year, $24 million contract this offseason.
That's the market rate for a linebacker of Barnes' caliber in 2025, further confirming Anzalone is underpaid. Barnes might surpass his mentor's contributions sooner rather than later, but in recent years, it's a stretch to suggest they've been particularly close.
What would an Anzalone extension look like for Detroit? We can reasonably center that conversation around two linebackers who recently re-upped with their teams: Foyesade Oluokun in Jacksonville and T.J. Edwards with Chicago.
Oluokun got three years, Edwards two, with each deal averaging $10 million per season. Both players are a touch younger than Anzalone. Still, the average value holds up if you factor in an extra year of cap inflation.
At his aforementioned age, the right length for an Anzalone extension is two years beyond this season. Any longer, respectfully, is an unreasonable ask.
Currently, Anzalone has a $7.26 million cap hit for the upcoming season and a $1.2 million cap hit next year, after the contract voids. If the Lions awarded him $20 million in new money, with a $5 million signing bonus and another $9.5 million guaranteed, the structure could look something like this.
2025: $6 million pre-existing base, $2.2 million combined signing bonus prorations from the previous contract and the two-year extension, and a pre-existing $100,000 in per-game bonuses, for a cap hit of $8.26 million.
2026: $3 million fully guaranteed base salary, $6 million guaranteed option bonus (spread over four years, with two void years added to the end of the contract), $2.2 million combined signing bonus prorations, up to $250,000 per game bonuses, $250,000 workout bonus, $7.2 million cap hit.
2027: $5 million base, $1 million signing bonus proration, $1 million option bonus proration, up to $250,000 per game bonuses, $250,000 workout bonus, $7.5 million cap hit and $6.5 million in dead money tied to the remaining signing bonus and option bonus prorations.
2028: Void year. $2 million in remaining signing bonus proration and $3 million in option bonus proration, for a $5 million dead money cap hit.
2029: Void year. No cap hit.
Concluding thoughts
If the Lions are reluctant at that price tag, it would be understandable. Cap space can be manipulated in a number of ways, but it is finite. At this point, we understand the team is stretched thin with recent extensions for Jared Goff, Penei Sewell, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Taylor Decker, David Montgomery, Alim McNeill and Kerby Joseph. That's on top of Aidan Hutchinson, Brian Branch, Jahmyr Gibbs, Sam LaPorta and Jameson Williams meriting consideration for pay days in the near future.General manager Brad Holmes has already said the team can't pay everyone and hinted that Williams could be an odd man out, putting any extension talks on the back burner after picking up the fifth-year option on the speedy receiver's rookie deal.
Anzalone is unquestionably on the older side, and the team invested a first-round pick in Jack Campbell a couple of years back, presumably viewing him as the franchise's long-term quarterback of the defense. His career is off to a promising start, but the defense remains better when the two are paired. As mentioned above, the unit's performance declined more noticeably when Anzalone was sidelined than any of the roster's other injuries in 2024.
And while acknowledging loyalty can lead to bad cap management decisions, Anzalone has been one of the key pieces of Detroit's turnaround, even if he doesn't get the attention of some of the bigger stars. Coach Dan Campbell went out of his way to highlight the linebacker by name at the league meetings in March when discussing the topic.
My gut tells me something gets done, in part because the Lions didn't draft an heir this April. The only addition the team made to its linebacker room this offseason was bringing in special teams ace Grant Stuard, and that was only a one-year contract.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The full article behind the paywall is the Top 25 Under 25
Sewell was #1, LaPorta (#23) and Joseph (#25) gave the Lions 5 players
Other teams with multiple players:
- Texans had 3
- Eagles had 2
- Falcons had 2
- Rams 2
(what else would a reasonable Lions fan conclude from this?)
ETA
Branch is #8, Gibbs #10....for a second I forgot nobody ever clicks the link
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
One should also conclude that Holmes must immediately stop drafting players and instead start trading all his picks away. It's simple logic Mr. Layne, I don't understand why everyone doesn't see that.
Only way to build a team is to make a splash in FA. We have too many young talented studs who are still developing, I want some splash! But seriously...
I have never seen a defense get so devastated by injuries like Detroit'a did last year. They were pulling guys off the street to play it was getting so bad. The problem was not that we lacked the talent to win the SB, the problem is with the limits on salary cap and roster size, it is impossible to cover for 20 some serious injuries. The SB window is here and will be around for at least the next three years barring another round of mass injuries.
Any fool can pick yesterday's lottery numbers with the use of hindsight. Holmes Crystal ball may not be perfect, but it is still has been far better than every other GM in the league for the last 4 years. And about 100 times better than any other Lions GM ever.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
How Dan Campbell's introductory press conference helped lead new TE coach Tyler Roehl to Detroit
Allen Park — Nearly five years ago, Dan Campbell’s hour-long, knee-cap biting introductory press conference set a now-unmistakable tone for his tenure as Detroit Lions coach. More than 1,000 miles west of where Campbell was delivering those words, the passion and intensity of that messaging resonated with 34-year-old North Dakota State offensive coordinator Tyler Roehl.
When Campbell rolled into NDSU’s campus for quarterback Trey Lance’s pro day a couple of months later, Roehl sought out the Lions coach for an introduction and to share how much he was inspired by the comments.
“I just said, ‘Hey, I admire the way you handled your press conference and the messaging,” Roehl said. “That’s how I look at the game of football. I want to preach and play with that desire, that intent, that mentality. …Just hearing how genuine and from the heart that message was, shoot, I go back to those quotes, quite honestly, quite a bit.”
After that initial crossing of paths, the two remained in contact. Then, in 2023, Campbell reached out to Roehl to interview for a vacancy on Detroit’s staff, coaching the tight ends. The meeting went well, but the position ultimately went to Steve Heiden, an 11-year NFL veteran who entered the league as part of the same draft class as Campbell.
But after Heiden departed this offseason, joining former Lions defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn in New York, Campbell thought back to Roehl.
“Interviewed him two years ago, and I was close then,” Campbell said. “This year was the right year.”
When Campbell passed Roehl over in 2023, he was disappointed. The snub also added fuel to his fire. Roehl returned to Fargo, where he was born and raised, eventually playing running back for North Dakota State before going into coaching. He stayed with the program another year before deciding he needed a change of scenery and a new challenge.
Roehl has always preached to his players about the need to push themselves out of their comfort zone if they want to be their best. It was time for him to take that advice, so he jumped to Iowa State to serve as the running backs coach and assistant head coach to Matt Campbell, one of the most respected coaches in college football.
It was only a year, but the decision proved to be the right one. Roehl absorbed a lot watching Matt Campbell run a bigger program with a “CEO mindset.” The coach’s standards for excellence matched Roehl’s, and together, they helped the team achieve its best season in program history.
“It was so easy to see the alignment, how everyone was on a mission to do things better than they had ever been done before,” Roehl said. “A level of toughness that he wanted, a level of desperation that he wanted the team to have, the eagerness, the edge. That’s what I wanted to be associated with.”
Desperation is a word Roehl embraces. He understands it often has negative connotations, but not when you think of it as a synonym of urgency, a word Dan Campbell has regularly used as the coach of the Lions.
“Desperation is hungry and doing things with an edge,” Roehl said. “I think me not getting (the job in Detroit) made me even hungrier. So I just continued to be where my feet were and work.”
Roehl truly enjoyed Iowa State. He would have been content to stay there for a longer stint, much like the decade he spent coaching at North Dakota State. But when Dan Campbell came calling a second time, the lure of the NFL was too great.
“My family, we could have been really comfortable, but when you have the opportunity to coach the tight ends of the Detroit Lions, I mean, it’s something I sprinted towards,” Roehl said. “The vision here, the culture, the environment, what this all entails, it was just something that I was very grateful to get. (I’m) excited for this opportunity.”
Like most of the coaches Campbell has brought into Detroit, it’s easy to see how Roehl meshes. He’s got that grit, something he said was cultivated by delivering newspapers growing up, having to traverse snowbanks and temperatures that dipped well below zero during the North Dakota winters.
Then, as a player, he clawed his way into a more prominent role through his blocking.
“My goal was to be the hammer and not the nail,” he said.
Roehl even managed to parlay that mentality into an offseason roster spot with the Seattle Seahawks as an undrafted rookie before his professional career was prematurely ended by a torn ACL.
Now he’s bringing every ounce of that attitude to Detroit, to get the best out of Sam LaPorta, Brock Wright and whoever emerges as the team’s third tight end.
“There was always a level of, I need to have a level of grittiness to accomplish the task at hand,” Roehl said. “That’s just how I was brought up, and that was the standard. If you don’t reach the standard, then you’re not going to fulfill the mission. Just the things that were preached at North Dakota State, the level of physicality that you need to play with.
"...My goal for the room is to play with physicality, to play with the right intent," Roehl said. "My goal is to play with one speed and that one speed is physicality."
I assume you guys are getting a laugh out of me with these recent attempts at sarcasm?
"That creaking sound you are hearing rn is Detroit's SB window getting ready to slam shut"
"One should also conclude that Holmes must immediately stop drafting players and instead start trading all his picks away"
"Only way to build a team is to make a splash in FA. We have too many young talented studs who are still developing, I want some splash!"
First of all, not one of these is accurate.
I never said the window is slamming shut. I said I would argue it is closing.
I also never said trade ALL his picks away.
And finally, I have commended the way he has built this roster, but I do believe a big free agent signing (or trade) is what is needed to put this team over the top.
Why are those things so outrageous to the same handful of you? Seriously. We honestly can't have a difference of opinion any more?
"That creaking sound you are hearing rn is Detroit's SB window getting ready to slam shut"
"One should also conclude that Holmes must immediately stop drafting players and instead start trading all his picks away"
"Only way to build a team is to make a splash in FA. We have too many young talented studs who are still developing, I want some splash!"
First of all, not one of these is accurate.
I never said the window is slamming shut. I said I would argue it is closing.
I also never said trade ALL his picks away.
And finally, I have commended the way he has built this roster, but I do believe a big free agent signing (or trade) is what is needed to put this team over the top.
Why are those things so outrageous to the same handful of you? Seriously. We honestly can't have a difference of opinion any more?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
People have the right to say whatever they want. But others also have the right to point out when they are wrong. Not sure why that part is so hard to comprehend.
So it's not a matter of opinion then. That was my question.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Hey, we’re just talkin’ ball here. It’s supposed to be fun. Part of being in an online community is trying to make each other laugh, or at least smile.
Nobody is trying to hurt anyone. It’s not personal; we’re just riffing about fan expectations or media speculations. None of us are football SMEs, we just have familiarity with one team in particular.
Because DC/BH have so consistent in their approach from day 1, because they have a very peculiar and specific evaluation process, I don’t think it’s that hard to understand why they make the decisions they do. Clamoring for unrealistic scenarios - say, trading for an underpaid 31-year old looking for a big deal. Or mortgaging the future chasing a second elite Edge - who despite having roots here, wants to stay with his team for life - IDK, that kind of pining seems fruitless.
Then to be saddened by the lack of effort to pursue a strategy you prefer over what they have been doing (with great success), well that just seems a little irrational. It’s like the Gibbs owner who thinks Monty should have a reduced role & the 203 lb dynamo should see 400 touches. Not gonna happen, you cannot legislate usage.
Scoreboard. 37-11 .771 with no losing streaks. I’ll take whatever they decide over my own imaginary scenarios. Anyone is welcome to disagree.
Nobody is trying to hurt anyone. It’s not personal; we’re just riffing about fan expectations or media speculations. None of us are football SMEs, we just have familiarity with one team in particular.
Because DC/BH have so consistent in their approach from day 1, because they have a very peculiar and specific evaluation process, I don’t think it’s that hard to understand why they make the decisions they do. Clamoring for unrealistic scenarios - say, trading for an underpaid 31-year old looking for a big deal. Or mortgaging the future chasing a second elite Edge - who despite having roots here, wants to stay with his team for life - IDK, that kind of pining seems fruitless.
Then to be saddened by the lack of effort to pursue a strategy you prefer over what they have been doing (with great success), well that just seems a little irrational. It’s like the Gibbs owner who thinks Monty should have a reduced role & the 203 lb dynamo should see 400 touches. Not gonna happen, you cannot legislate usage.
Scoreboard. 37-11 .771 with no losing streaks. I’ll take whatever they decide over my own imaginary scenarios. Anyone is welcome to disagree.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Preseason schedule is out.
We already knew the Hall of Fame game against the Chargers on July 31.
Then it's road against Atlanta, Friday, Aug. 8. Then home against Miami and Houston on Sat. 16 and Sat. 23. Both of those are at 1 p.m. (Excellent)
Joint practices not yet announced. Expecting Miami to be one. Other likely Houston.
We already knew the Hall of Fame game against the Chargers on July 31.
Then it's road against Atlanta, Friday, Aug. 8. Then home against Miami and Houston on Sat. 16 and Sat. 23. Both of those are at 1 p.m. (Excellent)
Joint practices not yet announced. Expecting Miami to be one. Other likely Houston.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
It will be interesting to see actually plays in the preseason. I'm guessing lots of Hooker and the rookies, hard to say what they plan to do with Hutch when he's ready to go.
Hooker has to play and play a lot. He really needs to show something imo. Aside from him, I'm guessing we see a lot of Mahogany, Ratledge, and Frazier as they try to sort out the starting guard spots. I would think Giovanni Manu will get a lot of playing time. I'm really intrigued by him. Brodric Martin should play a bunch but I'm not optimistic about him. Others that I'm most interested in seeing are Vaki, Rakestraw, and TeSlaa.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Holmes is staying the course and hoping that the defense will remain healthier than it did last year. And the defense was very good last year till the wave of injuries.
I’m OK with this as he has to balance the budget so to speak to keep the Lions as a contender for future years.
The Lions benefited from drafting a bunch of very good players and only having to pay these players rookie contract prices. It’s similar to having to pay a very good rookie QB only rookie QB wages. Once that QB comes up for that second contract and a huge increase in salary the whole team is affected. The quality at the other positions becomes harder to maintain with less money to go around.
In the Lions case it’s not a QB but a number of all star caliber players who are due for second contracts. Keeping everybody happy is a job I wouldn’t like to have. Bringing in a top of the market FA strains the whole system financially and may conflict with team culture and loyalties.
That being said I am uneasy with the pass rush and relying on Davenport and whether McNeil is sufficiently recovered. The Lions do need to kick the tires on FAs to see if they are a cultural and financial fit. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
But I am In favor of whatever strategy that keeps the Lions as ongoing contenders like the Ravens, Bills, Chiefs, 49ers and Rams. It will be interesting to see how the Niners do after having to pay Purdy off of a top QB contract as opposed to a very cheap rookie one.
This is a very good point.
I think they have a plan B if Davenport doesn't stay healthy. I also think they will sign Za'Darius Smith regardless. I'm not worried about McNeill long term but he will probably miss the first half of the season. The goal is to be healthy for the stretch run and the postseason.
We all know about Davenport's injury history and it's a legitimate concern, but for the sake of argument, assume he stays healthy. If that happens, how would everyone feel about the defensive line?
Personally I love Davenport's game. He is a really good football player, solid pass rusher and very good at setting the edge in run defense, which is very important for this defense given how much man they play. He looked great last year before his injury. Of course, as I already mentioned, we know his history and there is risk but it's a low risk high reward move. I think Brad will see how things play out and if Davenport gets hurt again, I fully expect Brad to make a move.
I'm probably less worried than most and part of the reason is, aside from the Davenport concerns, there aren't any real weaknesses on the defense and we already know how potent the offense is. I think the roster as is is one of the best in the NFL.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
The Niners are a good example of how going all-in does not necessarily equate to a championship. It will be interesting to see what happens to that team now that they are paying their QB (along with other top dollar non-primary positions TE/RB/LB…and injured WR Aiyuk).
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Lions have withdrawn their playoff re-seeding proposal, which went through a couple iterations through offseason discussion. Pulling it back suggests it didn't have any momentum with the other owners.
Part of the reason: Opponents of the proposal wanted to preserve the reward for division winners, who draw first-place schedules the following year – while wild-card teams don't face division winners in crossover games – under the NFL's scheduling formula.
In the past five Super Bowls:
Tampa didn't win until they signed Brady
The Rams didn't win until they traded for Stafford
The Eagles didn't win until they signed Saquon
The Lions have not made one trade or free agent signing of that scale.
And do not say Reed. That was a direct replacement for Davis.
There are also examples of teams that drafted, developed and resigned their own and have not won a Super Bowl.
Realistically, most of the NFL can be grouped in that category including the Bengals, Bills, Ravens and the Lions.
I understand, there is no right or wrong answer. But some of you appear ok with cherry picking examples that fit your narrative.
The truth is Brad has done a great job of BUILDING this team to be good over the next 2-5 years.
There are some of you who seem content with placing a very good football team on the field over that timeframe.
I (and many others) don't think he has done everything he can to win a Super Bowl and I thought that was the goal.
Hope you all have a great Memorial Weekend. I'm going to make a better effort of keeping my thoughts in.
It's not worth getting frustrated over. Life is too short. Take care.
Strange since I thought I read it was supported by Roger. Figured this had a decent shot.
Brady and Stafford are QBs and that is the one position where a true difference maker matters. The Bucs and Rams were older teams that were literally a QB away from being Super Bowl contenders. If the Lions needed a QB I would have no problem making a big move knowing the big dollars it would cost.
Saquon definitely helped but he signed as a free agent for $38 million over 3 years, which doesn't break the bank like a $30-35 million non-QB would. Also, none of those teams had a young core with several of them coming up for contract extensions in the next 2 years. You notice right now that the Eagles lost Josh Sweat, Milton Williams and CJ Gardner-Johnson among others and didn't go on a spending spree...namely because they have a bunch of young players coming up for extensions including Jalen Carter.
Most of the teams that drafted and kept their own and didn't overpay in free agency or trade for players with huge contracts are in the AFC, namely the Ravens, Bills, and Bengals. That's not why they haven't won a Super Bowl... Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs are why. If not for Mahomes I believe at least one of those teams would have won a Super Bowl by now. The Bengals made it once and came very close to beating the Rams.
I would not have a problem signing or trading for a player with a big contract but it would blow a hole in our cap. I also don't think it's critical right now to get an expensive edge rusher. I'd rather sign our young core. We do have cap room this year but we will be way over the cap next year (they can fix that by restructuring some players, namely Goff). Trading for and extending a player like Hendrickson, who is 30, would cost us at least 2 or 3 of our young core players. I don't think we are in a situation that desperate right now.
I'm content to see if Davenport can stay healthy. If he does we don't need an edge rusher because he is a really good football player. I also think we will sign Za'Darius Smith whether Davenport is healthy or not. If he gets hurt, then I trust that Holmes will make a move. He inquired about Crosby and Garrett so I have no doubt he would pull the trigger if necessary. But right now is not the time to make a move in my opinion.
@Payne the biggest disagreement I have with you is not the above. It's that you think the window is closing fast and I think the window is pretty big. Holmes is structuring contracts in a way that could give us a 4 year window, similar to how the Eagles have done their contracts. Most of our starters are in their early to mid 20s and the roster from top to bottom is as good as any in the NFL and are good enough to win a Super Bowl as is. I also think this team will be a Super Bowl contender for several more years.
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How about trading for Carlton Davis to fill a position of significant need?
Moonlight
Footballguy
Appreciate your thoughts. Keep em coming.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
To be clear as I have said before, I do not think you are wrong or I am right. I am simply expressing my opinion of preference. Would I love to have another impact player on the team? Absolutely. Do I want them to do so in a means that sacrifices what we have built and put us at peril past next year? Absolutely not. I understand your point and I think you understand mine. I am still hoping they can find some help via one year deals to fill some gaps and add depth. I think the biggest difference between our views is how good this defense is when healthy, obviously something Brad has no control over.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Tyleik Williams has signed his rookie deal. Only Ratledge remains unsigned from the draft class. 2nd round picks are often the last to sign..
Jayden Higgins (Texans) & Carson Schwesinger (Browns) - the first 2 picks of the 2nd round - recently became the first 2nd round picks to sign a fully guaranteed rookie contract.
For a first-round pick, rookie deals are fully-guaranteed and the signing bonus amount is slotted, so there isn't much room for negotiation—just minor details, like offset language and timing of payment.
Second round picks are the inflection point. Nobody wants to sign for a lower GTD % than the same slot of the previous year. Inevitably there has been an upward creep; Ladd McConkey set the previous record (91%) for a 2nd rounder.
Packers are in the same boat with their 2nd round OL (54th pick), also the only rookie to not sign yet for their class. The 54th/57th GTD % is usually around 60%, I imagine both will get signed long before it becomes a concern.
Same thing last year, Arnold signed before Rakestraw.
Jayden Higgins (Texans) & Carson Schwesinger (Browns) - the first 2 picks of the 2nd round - recently became the first 2nd round picks to sign a fully guaranteed rookie contract.
For a first-round pick, rookie deals are fully-guaranteed and the signing bonus amount is slotted, so there isn't much room for negotiation—just minor details, like offset language and timing of payment.
Second round picks are the inflection point. Nobody wants to sign for a lower GTD % than the same slot of the previous year. Inevitably there has been an upward creep; Ladd McConkey set the previous record (91%) for a 2nd rounder.
Packers are in the same boat with their 2nd round OL (54th pick), also the only rookie to not sign yet for their class. The 54th/57th GTD % is usually around 60%, I imagine both will get signed long before it becomes a concern.
Same thing last year, Arnold signed before Rakestraw.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He sounds fake to me.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
And not doing much in free agency or trades and just drafting and developing your own players and paying them has gotten the Cowboys really far.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
A third round pick for a rental isn't really a big move.
That would be like claiming the Eagles made a big move for D'Andre Swift a couple of years ago.
The Cowboys draft soft players and mismanage the cap every year.
What Super Bowl winning team acquired a player making $30 million either via trade or free agency? I'm not saying there aren't any but I can't think of any.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Lol. Okay
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Aj Brown, Matt Stafford
Not to mention that any position that isn't qb just crossed the 30 million threshold like two years ago. So not really a large sample.
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I count QBs separately because of the position they play and I stated earlier today that I would have made a move for Stafford and Brady because those were veteran teams that were a QB away from winning a Super Bowl. Those were great moves for those 2 teams given their circumstances.
I'll give you AJ Brown but the Eagles didn't have a bunch of young core players coming up for contract extensions at the time and Hurts was on his rookie contract. The Eagles had all kinds of cap room and Brown was only 24 years old. If I'm the Eagles I make that trade all day long.
See, I'm not against a big move if the circumstances dictate it. I just don't think this is the time for the Lions to make a move and I explained all of my reasoning a few posts prior.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Reggie White to the Packers. Orlando Brown Jr to the Chiefs.
What was the circumstances of the Packers back then and what was their cap situation like?
EDIT TO ADD: White signed with the Packers in 1993, a year before the salary cap started.
Same with the Chiefs. I'm not sure what their cap situation was but they were desperate for a left tackle and offensive line help in general. The Lions are not desperate right now in my opinion.
The difference between all of those teams and this Lions team is that the Lions have 4-5 young core players all coming up for extensions in the next 2 years, including Hutchinson, who will break the $40 million mark. They just signed Joseph for $24 million per year and still have to deal with Branch, LaPorta, Gibbs, Campbell, and Jamo. That's a whole lotta money right there and we probably can't keep all of them right now so adding a huge salary would cost us 2 or 3 more. In the last 2 years we also just gave huge extensions to Goff, St. Brown, Sewell, McNeill, Decker, and Montgomery. And Ragnow and Anzalone might get extended as well.
I'm not against big moves if the situation calls for it but there is no way I'm spending a high pick or picks AND $30-35 million for an edge given the money we will need for the players mentioned above.
I also think this Lions roster is good enough right now to win a Super Bowl and contend for many years to come.
EDIT TO ADD: White signed with the Packers in 1993, a year before the salary cap started.
Same with the Chiefs. I'm not sure what their cap situation was but they were desperate for a left tackle and offensive line help in general. The Lions are not desperate right now in my opinion.
The difference between all of those teams and this Lions team is that the Lions have 4-5 young core players all coming up for extensions in the next 2 years, including Hutchinson, who will break the $40 million mark. They just signed Joseph for $24 million per year and still have to deal with Branch, LaPorta, Gibbs, Campbell, and Jamo. That's a whole lotta money right there and we probably can't keep all of them right now so adding a huge salary would cost us 2 or 3 more. In the last 2 years we also just gave huge extensions to Goff, St. Brown, Sewell, McNeill, Decker, and Montgomery. And Ragnow and Anzalone might get extended as well.
I'm not against big moves if the situation calls for it but there is no way I'm spending a high pick or picks AND $30-35 million for an edge given the money we will need for the players mentioned above.
I also think this Lions roster is good enough right now to win a Super Bowl and contend for many years to come.
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Moonlight
Footballguy
Well he’s the man now and has to build his own brand and culture and handle the stress of leadership.
I think it’s interesting that the Bears drafted Burden whose work ethic is in question and I would think a player the Lions would not have drafted. At this time Swift is their main RB and the Lions and later the Eagles dumped him possibly due to his toughness and difficulty following his blocking.
Indications that Johnson sees somethings differently than where he came from.
@msudaisy26 and @Payne I appreciate the discussion.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Your last sentence is the one I have the most problem with. It just doesn't work that way, other teams are going to get better, certain Lions will move on or even get worse than they are now by injury, wear and tear or just because things change.
Windows are small in the NFL for a reason and the only way you cheat it is with an all time great qb. Not just a hall of fame, but a mount Rushmore type guy and the Lions don't have that.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Same
He went out and got an elite player where they needed it. And I think the plan was to keep him longer if a better value didn't present itself.
Would it have been a bigger move if he had sent over more draft capital or overpaid him to resign with the team?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
A combo of things. Better player, keeping him, more draft capital etc. These moves happen all the time.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I used to watch his Thursday presser every week. He sounds different than when he was with the Lions. Fake isn't quite it....forced might be it? Like everything about Dan Campbell is genuine, heartfelt, natural - it's who he is. As a leader of men, I'm not sure Ben has totally figured out what he wants to project.
They had the lowest energy draft war room. Such a stark contrast to the Lions. Really makes. you appreciate the free flowing and organic spirit around Allen Park. Also, Ryan Poles is pretty mid as a GM. Observing them this offseason, you really start to realize what a hand-to-glove relationship exists with Holmes and Campbell. Absolutely in sync, same enthusiasm, same vision - they are tone setters.
I'm not bitter Ben went to Chicago. I hope he does well, I like him as a person. But I don't see them winning more than 8 games. I think they'll patient with him but IMO they would be better off replacing Poles.
Now you're moving the goal posts.
You can't say those were good moves because the teams were a QB away from winning a Super Bowl and then disagree with me when I say the Lions are one Edge rusher away. That is hypocritical. And, yeah, I happen to think elite edge rushers are almost as valuable as QB's.
