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2025 Detroit Lions: 3-1 Lions roll over Browns (27 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Moonlight
Footballguy
Reminds me of when the Lions traded for all pro linebacker Pat Swilling in the 90s. Gave up a first rounder (8th overall) and a 4th rounder. Swilling was added to dramatically improve the Lions' pass rush. He helped improve the pass rush but not to the extent that was hoped. In fact Swilling was beginning the downturn on his career. He only played two years in Detroit and bounced around the NFL after that.
A bitter result for Detroit was that New Orleans used the first rounder to draft allpro offensive lineman Willie Roaf.
Hopefully if the Lions traded for Garrett they would get Reggie White's difference making effectiveness and not Pat Swilling's.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Still believe things would have been a little better if not a lot better had the Lions kept Gary Moeller as HC. Moeller was a a hard *** old time coach but also a coach the players loved and respected. The players never respected Mornhinweg as the HC and it went downhill fast.
Sidenote. My daughter played on the same youth soccer team as Mornhinweg's. Came to a couple games..total dipchit.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
"We'll take the wind."
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Rookie review and setting early expectations for second season of Detroit Lions' 2024 draft class
Allen Park — In his four years leading the Detroit Lions, general manager Brad Holmes has successfully executed his strategy of building through the draft.
Through this process, Holmes has solidified the franchise's foundation and landed star power in his first three classes. From 2021-23, the GM selected at least two players each year who have earned either Pro Bowl or All-Pro honors.
This year, the trend of instant impact was lessened. With a deep and talented roster, Holmes was only able to add one Day 1 starter in 2024. Four of the remaining five selections saw fewer than 100 offensive or defensive snaps.
This is how it should be for good teams. We're used to the Lions needing multiple rookies to play significant roles because of a lack of talent and depth. That's no longer the case, and it's a good reminder draft picks come with a four-year vision, not one.
As we embrace the offseason, let's recap the contributions of Detroit's rookie class and set early expectations for the group's second season.
Cornerback Terrion Arnold
16 games, 15 starts, 948 defensive snaps, nine special teams snaps2024 performance
Arnold, at just 21 years old, was thrown directly into the fire for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. Predictably, there were early struggles, particularly adjusting to how tightly defensive backs are officiated in the NFL.
Arnold was flagged eight times in the first four games, including five pass interference infractions and two defensive holding calls. Additionally, when targeted during that stretch, he allowed a passer rating of 113.3, giving up 14 receptions on 19 throws in his direction.
But things smoothed out as the debut season progressed. Most notably, the penalties declined sharply. Arnold drew just two flags on defense through his remaining 11 appearances and none in the final five games, including the team’s postseason contest.
The coverage numbers also improved. During the back half of the season — starting with the team’s Week 10 game against Houston — Arnold allowed quarterbacks to complete just 52.6% of their 38 throws when targeting him in coverage. Those 20 receptions netted 319 yards and a touchdown, resulting in a respectable 89.7 passer rating.
His ball production is still developing. Although he had 10 pass defenses, he’s still looking for his first interception after picking five during his final season at Alabama.
As a run defender, Arnold is an eager contributor and sure tackler, but he occasionally takes a bad angle. He tallied 60 tackles and was assessed only three whiffs.
Arnold suffered several minor injuries that sidelined him for a handful of plays during many games. Still, overall, he proved to be durable during his rookie campaign. He missed one game with a groin injury and played 86.5% of the defensive snaps overall.
What they’re saying
“We knew that it wasn’t going to be too big for him psychologically. He’s a highly confident kid. (He) had some up and down moments early on, had some aggressive moments, which was a good thing, didn’t have any timid moments. But I think all those snaps that he played are going to serve him well going forward.
“You just saw the waters were a little choppy early and then you saw the waters kind of calm down, kind of midpoint to later in the season. So, very high expectations for him going forward. Again, we all know how he’s wired. He’s wired the right way. He’s long, he’s athletic, he’s got instincts, he’s tough, he’ll tackle, and so all those reps are just going to improve his confidence even more.” — general manager Brad Holmes
2025 expectations
Arnold’s confidence is so high it’s borderline comical. In training camp, he told me he’d be winning the Defensive Rookie of the Year. Then, as the season went on, nearly every week we talked, he would predict this would be the game he’d get his first interception.
Undeterred after failing to meet those goals, Arnold took things even further on locker room cleanout day.
“I’ll be the best corner in the league pretty soon,” Arnold said. “I’m very confident.”
We know, Terrion. We know.
The Lions would settle for Arnold staying on his current developmental path. Plus, if the team doesn’t re-sign Carlton Davis, they could be looking to the youngster to be their No. 1 corner next season.
Arnold will look to keep the completion percentage and penalties down, as he did down the stretch in 2024. His experience should elevate his awareness, ideally leading to increased ball and turnover production.
Cornerback Ennis Rakestraw
Eight games, 46 defensive snaps, 95 special teams snaps2024 performance
After a strong preseason and training camp, Rakestraw looked primed to contribute in his first season. And the Lions were set to insert him into the lineup as the starting nickelback in Week 2 until he suffered a hamstring strain during pregame warmups.
That setback proved to be a significant lost opportunity as veteran Amik Robertson firmed up the nickel role while Rakestraw recovered. The rookie then missed more time down the stretch after re-aggravating the hamstring issue, requiring a stint on injured reserve.
Nearly three-quarters of Rakestraw’s defensive snaps came in garbage time of blowout victories over Dallas, Tennessee and Jacksonville. He split the action almost evenly between slot and wide alignments.
On special teams, Rakestraw’s playing time was primarily kickoff coverage. He also saw limited work on kickoff and punt returns, as well as a handful of reps on field goal block. In training camp, he practiced as a punt gunner, but the role didn’t port over to the regular season.
What they’re saying
“That’s the one thing that allows you to be a good player is position flexibility. For him to be able to show he can play corner and nickel is really big for him. To be a rookie and be able to handle that duty — because the nickel is a tough duty in the NFL and he shows the capability to do both, so that’s a plus for him.” — defensive backs coach Deshea Townsend
2025 expectations
If the Lions don’t re-sign Davis or add another experienced, starting-caliber cornerback in free agency, Rakestraw should enter camp as the favorite for the nickel job.
This scenario would see Amik Robertson remain on the outside, where he closed the 2024 campaign. Still, Rakestraw will have to answer durability concerns after missing time with muscle strains during his final college season and his first year in the pros.
Offensive tackle Giovanni Manu
Zero games, zero snaps2024 performance
Manu played 149 snaps at left tackle during the preseason, then faded into the background as the developmental project he was expected to be when the Lions selected him out of the University of British Columbia.
Manu was a healthy scratch for every regular season game. In practice, he worked with the scout team, often facing off against Detroit’s top edge rushers. Most of the practice reps continued to come at left tackle. He also got limited work at guard and right tackle, working the latter spot on Fridays, the team’s lightest day of practice.
What they’re saying
“He’s out of the baby-giraffe stage and he’s a full-grown giraffe, or whatever the hell you want to call it. He’s using that big-*** frame of his and he’s using it right. Any run plays, he’s coming downhill and he’s scooting guys out of the way. His form is good. I don’t know what Hank has been teaching him, but he’s learning quick.
“…His improvement, I would say, has been the same as (Chritisan) Mahogany’s. Both of them during the offseason, I’d say it was really easy to beat them (one-on-one). Really easy. Three months later, they’ve developed so quickly, they’re playing so much better.” - defensive tackle Levi Onwuzurike
2025 expectations
Manu will get an opportunity to show how far he’s come during the offseason program. He’ll compete for the backup tackle job in training camp with an outside shot of winning it. More realistically, he’s likely another year away from capturing that role.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Running back Sione Vaki
16 games, 26 offensive snaps, 310 special teams snaps2024 performance
A college safety who logged 42 carries as an injury fill-in at running back during his final college season, the Lions liked the playmaking he demonstrated in that role enough that they drafted him to play offense.
Vaki flashed some of that playmaking during the preseason, tallying 51 yards with 10 carries and adding another 60 yards on four receptions. Regardless, he barely saw any opportunities during the regular season, with five of his six carries coming in the late stages of a blowout win over Jacksonville.
Like Manu, both the team and player acknowledged the significant amount of development required before he would carve out a regular offensive role. He did see a handful of early-season reps as a fullback, but that usage dried up quickly. Even when David Montgomery was out with an injury late in the season, the team leaned more heavily on Craig Reynolds and Jermar Jefferson to pick up the slack.
Vaki’s far more significant impact came on special teams. The Lions drafted him with high expectations in this area, and he delivered. He saw action on punt and kickoff coverage, punt and kickoff return, and field-goal block. He was also featured on a successful fake punt, where he caught a pass from punter Jack Fox.
What they’re saying
“I think Vaki’s done a great job for us. He’s got a good skillset. Obviously, his college experience probably helps. He was a defensive player and an offensive player in college, so he can play coverage aspects on special teams and return. He obviously has the catch for us on the fake. That was a big play there. He’s done a good job in protection on punt, and really, on all four phases, I feel like he’s done a good job. …I think he’ll continue to get better and better and better.” - special teams coordinator Dave Fipp
2025 expectations
Expectations for an expanded offensive role will likely hinge on whether the Lions retain Reynolds. With Montgomery and Jahmyr Gibbs understandably dominating the touches, there won’t be many scraps. Plus, if there’s an injury at the top of the depth chart, the Lions feel more comfortable with the veteran backup because of his complete understanding of the responsibilities of the position.
Vaki’s most refined offensive trait is his ability to maximize yardage in space, which is why he can be so effective as a pass catcher. This ability added to the intrigue when the Lions tested him out as a blocking back.
Even if he remains fourth on the depth chart to start his second season, there’s an opportunity to slowly expand Vaki’s playing time and usage in two-back sets, particularly during two-minute situations.
Defensive lineman Mekhi Wingo
11 games, 176 defensive snaps, 44 special teams snaps2024 performance
Wingo had a small role in Week 1, and it quickly grew to the point that he saw 25 or more defensive snaps four times during a five-game stretch from late September until the end of October.
Most of his snaps came on interior alignments, but Wingo did see 78 reps on the edge. Teammates praised his effort, but he only put a small dent in the box score before suffering a season-ending meniscus tear on Thanksgiving. He finished his debut season with nine tackles, five quarterback pressures and zero sacks.
His special teams role was almost exclusively limited to field goal block.
What they’re saying
“The thing that happened with him, once we started having these injuries, we had to move him around in different spots. But that’s the good thing about Wingo — his versatility and his lower body strength (allow him) to be able to handle different opportunities that we’re giving him to play different positions.
“He’s been playing inside, he’s been playing a big end for us. That was a pleasant surprise for us, honestly. We knew he was a good player. We knew that he was strong, but to see him be able to hold up at the point of attack was good to see.” — former defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn
2025 expectations
At Wingo’s size (six-foot, 285 pounds), he’s never likely to be a regular starter or even a rotational guy you want playing 30 snaps per game. He doesn’t have the mass to hold up against the run on the inside or the length to set consistent edges while playing wider alignments.
He does offer the quickness and ability to disrupt the pocket, which we didn’t see enough of during his rookie year. Still, he demonstrated his capability to affect the quarterback in college, racking up 7.5 sacks during his final two seasons at LSU.
Wingo expects to be fully healed by the start of training camp, and there should be some extra practice reps available after Alim McNeill tore his ACL in December.
Guard Christian Mahogany
Seven games, one start, 75 offensive snaps, 41 special teams snaps2024 performance
After missing training camp with mono, Mahogany started the season on the non-football injury list. The Lions activated him in late October, and within a month, he proved to be the team’s top interior backup, jumping over veteran Kayode Awosika on the depth chart.
In early December, Mahogany got his first taste of playing time on offense when starter Kevin Zeitler had to briefly exit for a series. Two weeks later, Mahogany started at left guard in place of an injured Graham Glasgow, thriving in the opportunity despite not playing on that side in a game since his first year at Boston College.
The team gave Mahogany a handful of snaps as a blocking tight end down the stretch and called upon the rookie to start in Zeitler’s place during the playoff game against Washington.
What they’re saying
“When Christian had to take the time off being on NFI, when we returned him, me and Dan (Campbell) were kind of like, ‘He’s a rookie, he’s missed this much time.’ The medical staff and the trainers knew he was in good shape physically, but we were like, ‘If he can help, he can help, if he can’t —’ You know how we are with rookies, and he jumped right in. You could see it noticeably in practice where it’s like, ‘OK, wow, we’ve got to get this guy active. Oh wow.’ And so, I think he just has to continue improving, continue to work on his game. I know that he will do that, but I do think that he can make that jump (to a starting role).” — Holmes
2025 expectations
It’s not the largest sample size, but given what Mahogany demonstrated in his audition, it’s increasingly difficult to imagine a scenario where he won’t be a starter next season.
The question the Lions need to answer is whether it will be at left or right guard. With Zeitler set to be a free agent, that’s the natural solution given Mahogany’s experience on the right. But Glasgow is coming off a down season, so the team could feel compelled for a larger shuffling of the deck up front.
Undrafted free agents
2024 performanceThe Lions had three UDFAs make the team’s initial 53-man roster.
Hogan Hatten served as the team’s long snapper, earning rave reviews from teammates and Fipp through the year. Wide receiver Isaiah Williams appeared in two games before he was claimed off waivers by the Cincinnati Bengals. And safety Loren Strickland appeared in seven contests, playing exclusively on special teams.
The team also promoted two undrafted rookies during the season, defensive end Isaac Ukwu and safety Morice Norris. Ukwu logged 70 defensive snaps in the initial aftermath of Aidan Hutchinson’s season-ending injury, while Norris received special teams snaps during the final two weeks of the regular season.
2025 expectations
There’s little reason to believe Hatten isn’t set up to be a long-term answer at long snapper. Not only does he execute the primary responsibility of his position at a high level, but he’s uniquely athletic, allowing him to get downfield and contribute covering punts.
As for Strickland, Ukwu and Norris, as well as some of the injured and practice squad UDFAs like center Kingsley Eguakun, linebacker DaRon Gilbert and defensive end Nate Lynn, none are guaranteed a future role. They’ll have to win jobs next offseason.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Remind me of the timeline: Moeller's drunken meltdown is what cost him his job at Michigan, right? And then he later made a comeback as interim HC with the Lions?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Moeller got railroaded. Moeller had ticked some higher ups off at Michigan (Not the players who still talk highly of him) and they were waiting for a reason.
So what he got drunk in a restaurant. The cop who came recorded him blasted and then gave it to a local radio station who played it on the air. After that he was toast. Still think he should have never been forced out. In 5 years he was 44-13 and won 3 Big Ten titles. That was not good enough in those days.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Vote totals for AP NFL Coach of the Year Award:
(10-5-3-2-1)
Kevin O’Connell, Minnesota: 25-18-7-0-0: 361
Dan Campbell, Detroit: 19-10-8-8-3: 283
Campbell was left off two ballots. H2H, Detroit beat Minnesota twice.
Three weeks to the NFL Combine....
Key offseason dates
(10-5-3-2-1)
Kevin O’Connell, Minnesota: 25-18-7-0-0: 361
Dan Campbell, Detroit: 19-10-8-8-3: 283
Campbell was left off two ballots. H2H, Detroit beat Minnesota twice.
Three weeks to the NFL Combine....
Key offseason dates
- February 24 – March 3 NFL Combine
- 18-Feb to 4-Mar - period for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players
- March 10-12 - from Noon on the 10th through 3:59 PM - two day negotiation period for UFA
- March 12 - at 4pm, 2025 LEAGUE YEAR begins and teams may sign UFA
- also at 4pm, all 2024 contracts expire and the 2025 Trading Period beings - March 30-April 2 Annual League Meetings
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Key Offseason Dates April - July
| April | |
| Clubs that hired a new Head Coach after the end of the 2024 regular season may begin offseason workout programs. | 7-Apr |
| Deadline for clubs to time, test, visit, interview, or conduct a physical examination with a draft-eligible player at its club facility. | 16-Apr |
| Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign Offer Sheets. | 18-Apr |
| Clubs with returning Head Coaches may begin offseason workout programs. | 21-Apr |
| Deadline for Prior Club to exercise Right of First Refusal to Restricted Free Agents who signed offer sheets. | 23-Apr |
| Deadline for clubs to time, test, visit, interview (including video and phone calls), or conduct a physical examination with a draft-eligible player at any location. | 23-Apr |
| NFL Draft, Green Bay, Wisconsin. | April 24-26 |
| May | |
| Deadline for Clubs to exercise Fifth-Year Option for players selected in the first round of the 2022 Draft. | 1-May |
| Clubs may elect to hold their one three-day post-Draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday on one of the two weekends following the Draft. | May 2-5 or May 9-12 |
| Rookie Football Development Programs begin. | 12-May |
| NFLPA Rookie Premiere, Los Angeles, California. | 14-May |
| Spring League Meeting/Coach Accelerator (Omni Viking Lakes Hotel, Minneapolis, Minnesota) | May 20-21 |
| June | |
| Deadline for prior club to send “June 1 Tender” to its unsigned restricted free agents who received a qualifying offer for a right of first refusal only in order for such player to be subject to the CBA’s “June 15 Tender” provision. | June 1 |
| Deadline for club to withdraw higher qualifying offer to restricted free agents and still retain exclusive negotiating rights by substituting lower “June 15 Tender” of one-year contract at 110 percent of the player’s prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior-year contract carried forward unchanged). | June 15 |
| Rookie Readiness Program to be held at individual clubs. | Late June |
| July | |
| At 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for any club that designated a Franchise Player to sign such player to a multiyear contract or extension. After this date, the player may sign only a one-year contract with his prior club for the 2025 season, and such contract cannot be extended until after the club’s last regular season game. | July 15 |
| Clubs are permitted to open preseason training camp for rookies (defined as a player who has never signed an NFL player contract with a club in a prior league year) beginning seven days prior to the club’s mandatory reporting date for veteran players. A club’s preseason training camp will be deemed to have officially opened on the designated reporting date for all rookies. Clubs may require first-year players (defined as a player who signed a player contract with any NFL club in a prior league year, but who does not have a pension-credited season) to report on the designated reporting date for all rookies, or at any time thereafter, including, but not limited to, the designated reporting date for veteran quarterbacks and injured players, or the designated reporting date for all other veteran players. Veteran quarterbacks and “injured players” (as defined in CBA Article 21, Section 6) may be required to report to the club’s preseason training camp no earlier than five days immediately prior to the mandatory reporting date for all other veteran players, provided the club has already opened (or simultaneously opens) its official preseason training camp for all rookies. | Mid-July |
| At 4:00 p.m., New York time, signing period ends for Transition Players with outstanding tenders. After this date and until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the Tuesday following the 10th weekend of the regular season, prior club has exclusive negotiating rights. At 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 21 (or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp [July 16 in 2025], whichever is later) signing period ends for unrestricted free agents to whom a “UFA Tender” was made by prior club. After this date and until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the Tuesday following the 10th weekend of the regular season, prior club has exclusive negotiating rights. | July 21 |
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
just 3 guys talking ball
somebody has a bump
AP NFL Most Valuable Player voting:
(10-5-3-2-1)
somebody has a bump
AP NFL Most Valuable Player voting:
(10-5-3-2-1)
- Josh Allen: 27-22-1-0-0: 383
- Lamar Jackson: 23-26-0-1-0: 362
- Saquon Barkley: 0-1-25-19-2: 120
- Joe Burrow: 0-1-15-10-12: 82
- Jared Goff: 0-0-6-5-19: 47
- Patrick Mahomes: 0-0-3-8-6: 31
- Jayden Daniels: 0-0-0-2-4: 8
- Justin Herbert: 0-0-0-3-0: 6
- Ja'Marr Chase: 0-0-0-2-2: 6
- Sam Darnold: 0-0-0-0-3: 3
- Baker Mayfield: 0-0-0-0-2: 2
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Allen is a deserving winner, but who is the idiot that voted Lamar Jackson 4th?
Honestly, I think Jayden Daniels was the MVP in 2024. Washington is far behind the teams of the other candidates listed in terms of talent.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
My memories of it are admittedly sketchy, but I thought that the cops knew who he was and were more than willing to let him get a ride home and sleep it off, but he kept escalating it and gave them no choice but to arrest him
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
30 years ago? Man I feel old.
There were some wild rumors about what caused Moeller to go on a bender. Won't repeat it as it's unsubstantiated. The whole incident was really out of character for him.
IIRC Bo, who was no longer the AD, was on vacation in Mexico at the time and could not be reached for several days (different times). Always felt like if he was in town he would have saved Moeller.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
DFN Mailbag: Lions' OC decision, big names on the trade block and more
With the Super Bowl this weekend and the combine later this month, it felt like a good time to check the mailbox. Since there were so many questions, I’m going to answer a batch today and another tomorrow. Enjoy.
Question: Do you get the sense that the offense will be the same under John Morton? Or will there be some noticeable differences in how that side of the ball operates? — Dante
Justin: There will be changes, but it's too early to accurately elaborate on the extent. In fact, it might not be easy to decipher until we see the system in action next season.
I'm still sifting through Morton's background and influences, but there's a heavy dosage of West Coast offense. That was a piece of Ben Johnson's DNA, as well, having been introduced to the system in college while keeping many of the concepts in the playbook after his time working with Darrell Bevell in Detroit.
Morton's past indicates he's less reliant on play-action than Detroit has been, but good coaches recognize their players' strengths. Denver, where Morton worked as a passing game coordinator in 2024, used run fakes significantly more than the Jets did when he coordinated the team's offense in 2017.
Morton had input during the construction of Detroit's scheme under Johnson. Ultimately, we should expect the replacement to bend components toward his background, preferences and verbiage. Regardless, one thing we should anticipate is continued input from Jared Goff. I don't believe Campbell makes this hire if the QB doesn't sign off on it.
Question: Was Tanner Engstrand seriously considered for OC? I've read that he was the next Ben Johnson, waiting in the wings. Did Dan Campbell want to fundamentally get away from that style of offense? — Nicholas Serapiglia
Justin: Campbell hasn't talked since making his staffing decisions, and he probably won't ever discuss, in detail, the people he passed over for the vacancies. However, given the coach's emphasis on philosophical and schematic continuity, Enstrand was certainly considered and likely interviewed.
Expressing a personal perspective formulated in admittedly limited interactions with Engstrand, I wondered about his ability to command a room. I readily acknowledge these perceptions could be misguided. Still, in press conference settings, he didn't project the same confidence or authoritativeness as Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson or Scottie Montgomery.
It made me think back to when Scott Linehan was Detroit's offensive coordinator. At that time, there were whispers Matthew Stafford wasn't held to the highest standards of accountability, which prevented the quarterback from maximizing his potential earlier in his career.
More than Xs and Os, I questioned whether Engstrand could demand perfection from Detroit's star power the same way Johnson did. It could certainly explain why Campbell turned to a more veteran, experienced voice.
It has nothing to do with the scheme. Johnson's offense, a mash-up of several systems, worked at the highest level. Any suggestion opponents were figuring it out was ridiculous commentary not rooted in reality. Morton was in Detroit to help with the system's conception and implementation. He will provide Campbell with the adequate level of philosophical continuity the coach desires.
Question: What can be learned from the Eagles' bounceback year besides picking up Saquon Barkley from the Giants? — JFL
Justin: Otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
OK, that's a bit much, but Barkley was a transformative addition for the Eagles. He provided offensive stability, taking pressure off quarterback Jalen Hurts from having to shoulder the load. That was particularly valuable given star receiver A.J. Brown was slowed by some injury issues this season.
But as much as Barkley, the other addition that fueled the Eagles' resurgence was the hiring of Vic Fangio as defensive coordinator. Obviously, some newcomers made substantial contributions to that unit. Still, Fangio's schemes are simple and proven, and with quality talent, they can be downright dangerous. The team went from allowing 25.2 points per game last season to 17.8 in 2024.
Question: What is the likelihood that the Lions land Cooper Kupp or Myles Garrett? — Dominic Weakland
Question: Would you trade a first, a third, and Hendon Hooker for Myles Garrett? — Matthew Sharp
Justin: First, on Garrett, I projected the hypothetical cost in an analysis earlier in the week. To summarize, it's probably prohibitive and runs counter to Brad Holmes' roster-building strategy. It was definitely more than the package proposed by Matthew. If that's all that it would take, I'd pull the trigger without hesitation. But, as stated, I’d anticipate it taking significantly more.
As for Kupp, I don't see the fit. The Lions don't need a soon-to-be 32-year-old receiver who is on the downside of his career, will cost close to $20 million this season and next, and plays a role that heavily overlaps with the way the Lions use Amon-Ra St. Brown.
Question: I wondered if the college scouting and pro scouting departments are intact from last year. — Paul Van Randwyk
Justin: For now.
Changes to the scouting departments typically occur after free agency and the draft. The primary exception is when another franchise poaches someone for a promotion. This happened the past two years when the Cardinals and Commanders hired away Dave Sears and Lance Newmark.
Question: What would be your All-Lions team since you started covering them? — Scott_D
Justin: Man, what a question.
OK, let’s go. Remember, I started in 2011.
Quarterback: Matthew Stafford
Running back: Jahmyr Gibbs, David Montgomery
Wide receivers: Calvin Johnson, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Golden Tate
Tight end: Sam LaPorta
Offensive line: Taylor Decker, Rob Sims, Frank Ragnow, Larry Warford, Penei Sewell
Edge: Aidan Hutchinson, Ezekiel Ansah
Defensive tackle: Ndamukong Suh, Alim McNeill
Linebacker: DeAndre Levy, Alex Anzalone, Stephen Tulloch
Cornerback: Darius Slay, Chris Houston (I guess), Brian Branch (nickel)
Safety: Glover Quin, Kerby Joseph
Specialists: Matt Prater, Jack Fox, Don Muhlbach, Kalif Raymond
Quarterback will probably generate the most feedback. I acknowledge Goff is quickly closing the gap. He’s just so damn efficient. Still, it’s not a stretch to say Stafford was more physically gifted. Goff has benefited from a better support system, from surrounding talent to coaches.
Other players I could see pushing someone off the list in the near future are Jack Campbell, Jameson Williams, Terrion Arnold, and maybe even Jake Bates
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
There was no doubt he was blasted, and I forgot some of the details. I always believed the saying "Don`t judge a man in his worst moment" It was totally out of character and I know the rumor you were talking about as it had to do with Les Miles. That is why Miles was never considered for the HC job after Carr left.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Lions have hired Bruce Gradkowski (blast from the past, eh), presumably to the offensive staff. Assistant QB Coach is open - haven't heard anything recent about Brunell leaving.
Darren Sproles is being interviewed for an assistant position. Would be a great addition IMO, but it's his first coaching gig and he has talked to a number of college and NFL programs.
David Shaw was hired last week as the Passing Game Coordinator. Amon-Ra said it's a full circle moment for him, first met him in 8th grade and attended several youth football camps he was at, plus he coached his "other brother" Osiris St Brown.
Remaining staff vacancies:
Carlton Davis seems like the best option to solidify the CB room. Terrion at RCB and Amik at Slot CB will be solid, but they don't have anyone rostered who is capable to play LCB. But CD3 had a pretty good year and the price is only going up. Signed for 3 years, $44.5M & $30M GTD last time around. Played for $15.7M last year, though his cap number was lower because Detroit restructured after the trade. Tough decision here with so many yet to paid yet.
Darren Sproles is being interviewed for an assistant position. Would be a great addition IMO, but it's his first coaching gig and he has talked to a number of college and NFL programs.
David Shaw was hired last week as the Passing Game Coordinator. Amon-Ra said it's a full circle moment for him, first met him in 8th grade and attended several youth football camps he was at, plus he coached his "other brother" Osiris St Brown.
Remaining staff vacancies:
- Assistant Quarterbacks Coach
- Wide Receivers Coach
- Tight Ends Coach
- Assistant Defensive Line Coach
- Assistant Linebackers Coach
- Senior Defensive Assistant (potentially)
- Levi Onwuzurike has probably earned himself a nice UFA contract coming off a solid 2024 season. Think it's the same story for Levi & Iffy - time to move on.
- Alim McNeil, according to several reports, is almost surely going to begin the season on the PUP, and there is speculation it may be midseason before he's available.
Carlton Davis seems like the best option to solidify the CB room. Terrion at RCB and Amik at Slot CB will be solid, but they don't have anyone rostered who is capable to play LCB. But CD3 had a pretty good year and the price is only going up. Signed for 3 years, $44.5M & $30M GTD last time around. Played for $15.7M last year, though his cap number was lower because Detroit restructured after the trade. Tough decision here with so many yet to paid yet.
- Kerby Joseph going into his final year
- Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams will be on their 5th year option in 2026
- Brian Branch and Sam LaPorta will be on their final year of their rookie deal in 2026
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Now I remember! I think I first heard those rumors a few years ago.
Anyway, I don't judge Moeller for the rest of all eternity. But it definitely sounds like, in the moment, he dug his own grave with his behavior
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Apparently, there is belief that this is the last year Darius Slay will be an Eagle. He could be a 1 year stop gap to return to his former team. Don't know what he would cost though.
ETA: He's had a really good season for Philly.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
They were talking about the Lions' future on a recent episode of The Athletic Football Show podcast, and they said roster-wise, Detroit should mostly be able to run it back next season (coaching is obviously a different story). But starting in '26 the roster will get a lot more expensive and they may have to start making some hard choices. So if we're back here next year and Detroit has had another disappointing ending to the season, I'll be a lot more worried. Then again, it kinda sucks to be heading into a make-or-break year with so much turnover at coaching
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
There are many many things I hate Matt Patricia for, but running Slay out of town is pretty high up on the list
msudaisy26
Footballguy
But he also would have played an extra game to set the record.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Doesn’t make a difference in the long run. They don’t put asterisks next to records. And it will change again if/when they go to an 18 game season.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Any CB that can cover would be an upgrade. Been an achilles heel last few seasons.
Lions load up on CBs and the #1 Davis lost for season, Rakestraw hurt all season, Arnold missed games, and Robertson broke his arm fist series of the playoff game. Lions had corners in that had not played all year. I know there are no excuses but that is a legit one.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
When it comes to MVP voting I bet it does.
Moonlight
Footballguy
In your mind it does.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Guess we will find out when the next rb that breaks the record and wins.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Who did you think was the MVP?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Allen
The above is the real reason he's not here.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@Lions
The Detroit Lions join the NFL community in mourning the passing of D ick Jauron.
Originally drafted by Detroit in 1973, Jauron enjoyed a five-year playing career as a standout defensive back with the Lions that included a Pro Bowl selection in 1974.
He returned to the franchise as defensive coordinator from 2004-05 before serving as interim head coach to conclude the 2005 season.
The Detroit Lions join the NFL community in mourning the passing of D ick Jauron.
Originally drafted by Detroit in 1973, Jauron enjoyed a five-year playing career as a standout defensive back with the Lions that included a Pro Bowl selection in 1974.
He returned to the franchise as defensive coordinator from 2004-05 before serving as interim head coach to conclude the 2005 season.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is why I think the Lions should consider not investing much in free agency. They have an opportunity to extend the window or make a push for the next season or 2. If they bypass splashes in free agency, they will have a very large roll over cap they can use to pay their young core and still fill gaps around them. Very interesting couple months coming in Mo-Town
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
The idea that the Lion’s trade for Myles Garrett sounds fun, but they have turned this franchise around by building through the draft and filling holes with free agent values. I do not see this changing as Holmes wants to build for now and tomorrow. We lost in the playoffs because we didn’t execute offensively and our defensive roster was decimated. With a healthy roster and a bit better execution we would be on tv today imo.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
When Jauron was on the sidelines with a hat on he always looked so young. Seemed like a class act.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
But it is the NFL, can you ever count on being healthy at the end of the year?
I love the idea of getting Garrett. If the Lions can have a top offensive and defensive line they can extend this window. A great o line will keep Goff healthy. A great d line will make the back 5 better.
As great as ARSB, Gibbs, Laporta, Branch, Joseph etc are they are replaceable by cheaper, younger, and not as talented counterparts if you have dominate lines.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Being able to acquire a game wrecker like Garrett may make foregoing the future justifiable, but the cost to doing so if he's available (I doubt he is) will be steeeeeeeep. Like, #1's alone won't do it, because the expectations would be those #1's are high 20's / early 30's.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Why do they have to forgo the future? If Brad is even half the drafter everyone says he is then a couple of firsts and maybe a third shouldn't be a problem.
As far as the cap it is going to be a problem regardless. They can't keep everyone. Someone is going to have to move on.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I disagree that the listed players are replaceable (at least easily to their talent level). I don’t like the idea of mortgaging the future for a 30 year defensive end. I prefer to stay the course and hope our talent remains healthier for a run next year (and learn from our mistakes that cost us in that game). There is no guarantee that we stay healthy (as last year showed us), there is also no guarantee that a 30 year DE stays healthy. Rather keep the younger talent and build from that as it spreads the talent further versus trying to add the one piece that costs us an arm and leg.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Thought he wouldn’t be back after that cheap 15 yard penalty he took in the NFCC game against San Francisco in the second half.
Penalty was away from the ball against a guy he had a personal grudge towards.
CGJ was also responsible for those stupid scratchy blue face masks that looked like you were robbing the 7-11.
That fad died quickly.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Garrett just turned 29, but that is exactly what I said. The.players you would replace them with in 2 to 4 years won't be as good, but if the lines are dominate it won't matter.
You would rather bet on unproven rookies than a 6 time all pro, in his prime? Plus where are these rookies going to develop? There isn't a rb, lb, safety, wr, te or corner that will develop next year, they won't get playing time.
Win the first and then worry about the rest later. The Rams said f them picks and they are still in the thick of things.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Lions play at Philly next year. Wouldn’t surprise me if that ends up being the TNF season opener
MAC_32
Footballguy
Like I said in what you quoted, two Lions #1's aren't going to do it.
They can absolutely keep everyone, but it requires restraint this offseason. They're rolling over ~$50m and the only player they probably need to extend right now is Kerby, but doing so won't impact their '25 cap much. They play this tight and they can go into '26 with another ~$40m to roll over (or more if they play the base to bonus game) and only need to re-do Hutch and Jamo's contracts. If they want to create more space to facilitate at that time they have some large bases they can convert into bonuses (Goff $55m, St Brown $27.5m, McNeil $23.85m, Sewell $19.9m, Decker $14.9m). They'd consider doing that because they have Gibbss, LaPorta, and Branch needing their contracts done the season after.
They can't do all that if they choose to make a splash though.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He was one my favorite players in junior high. Rookie year he had 3 INTs, including a 95 yard pick 6, in a blowout win over the Bears. 4 INT & 5 FR, should have been the DRotY but he was a 4th rounder out of the Ivy League & the DE who won it was the 8th pick. Made the Pro Bowl Y2. Can’t remember what the injuries were but that was the apex as far as his playing career. Think he played like 8 years? I want to say 5 with Detroit and 3 with the Bengals.
Dismal era. Schmidt quit after 6 years, hired a Super Bowl winning coach and he died of a heart attack in TC Y2, forgettable nondescript HCs like Tommy Hudspeth & Rick Forzano. The latter hired some intern/grad assistant guy named Belichick.
Loved those players, though. Greg Landry, Earl McCullouch, Ron Jessie, Larry Walton, Charlie Sanders, Mel Farr, Steve Owen, Altie Taylor, Jim Yarbrough, Gordon Jolly, Ed Flanagan, Bob Kowalski, Rocky Freitas, Herb Orvis, Larry Hand, Ernie Price, Mike Lucci, Paul Naumoff, Charlie Weaver, Lem Barney, Levi Johnson, Mike Weger, Jauron, Miller Farr, Errol Mann. Herman Weaver.
The names and their numbers are permanently etched into my memory.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Should have been us tonight. Watched halftime, but not the game. Instead I watched old films of Tiger Woods majors. Wifey knew not to react to what she was watching in the other room lol.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
As an Eagles fan who has a close friend who's a Lions fan, I would love that.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I imagine PHI at KC will be hard to pass up though
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The reports I have read don't have it costing much more than two firsts. Lamar was on the block a couple seasons ago and the ask was only two firsts.
Teams make big moves, Barkely to the Eagles, the Chiefs have trades for offensive lineman and let guys like Hill and Snead go. The Rams and f them picks.
Also the d line needs help, Hutch can't miss 10 games and lead the team in sacks, we can't expect everyone to stay healthy, we can't expect Hutch and Alim to just roll in and be dominant after major injuries.
Go get the difference maker now and win, and then worry about signing your guys when the time comes.
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