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4(102) Jordan Cameron, TE, Cleveland (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
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Shutout
Footballguy
I'd take a 2nd if I though it wasn't going to be one of the last 2-4 picks in the round.
You've got a guy that has had his melon mushed a few times and has had some nagging stuff. He's on a team where everyone, everyday is talking about 3-4 potential breakout players. That's a lot of mouths to consistently feed at some point. They can't all be that valuable and TE isn't the most featured role in the NFL.
Not saying he won't live up to some people's expectations but I think the odds he doesn't are a good amount more than the odds he does. From a FF perspective, I take the 2nd because on any given year, I know I can turn that into a DeSean Jackson, a Funchess, a David Coob/David Johnson, a QB sometimes. You have flexibility. Cameron, to me, is a guy that might easily be as fungible as 8-9 other TEs in the league drafting at very similar spots.
You've got a guy that has had his melon mushed a few times and has had some nagging stuff. He's on a team where everyone, everyday is talking about 3-4 potential breakout players. That's a lot of mouths to consistently feed at some point. They can't all be that valuable and TE isn't the most featured role in the NFL.
Not saying he won't live up to some people's expectations but I think the odds he doesn't are a good amount more than the odds he does. From a FF perspective, I take the 2nd because on any given year, I know I can turn that into a DeSean Jackson, a Funchess, a David Coob/David Johnson, a QB sometimes. You have flexibility. Cameron, to me, is a guy that might easily be as fungible as 8-9 other TEs in the league drafting at very similar spots.
cstu
Footballguy
I'm not giving up a young top 10 TE for a 2nd - most of those are busts anyway.
Here's what Tannehill is saying about him:
Shutout
Footballguy
I don't know what the phrase for it is but I think that is where a lot of people stumble, when you hear people being labeled as something and then you buy it as the truth. Saying he is a top 10 TE, especially without strongly considering his injury history and playing competition/environment, is not a good idea.
Just 5 years ago, the "consensus" top 10 dynasty TEs included Brent Celek, Jermichael Finley, Owen Daniels, Zach Miller (Oak), Kellen Winslow and Vernon Davis. That's half the list and where are ANY of those guys today and from a position that has about as much longevity as any?
Just 3 years ago, that list included Gresham, Finley, Fred Davis, C. Fleener, B. Pettigrew, L. Green. Again, over half the list and I was honestly surprised J. Cook wasn't in that projection. And Ladarius Green. Have we really been calling him a top 10 dynasty TE waiting to happen for 3 years?
Again, not saying he won't be what some think he is but just saying to be careful before just accepting it as gospel because the trend shows that the odds are not in your favor if you have been around 4-5 years and haven't made that leap yet.
Now 2nd rounders are certainly hits and misses but I know that in any given May, if I hold a top 20 draft pick in a dynasty, there is REAL value there, regardless of whether I use it on finding DJAX, Gronk, or if I sell it to the guy who uses it to do the same or waste it on B. Pettigrew.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Cameron has actually produced at a high level when not injured, plus he's on a better team now. That's why he gets one more shot at being a top dynasty prospect.
The only concern is injury, but it's a big one (the chance of his brain turning to jello on the next helmt-to-helmet contact). He could be playing Madden at Jahvid Best's house by the end of the season.
His talent is worth the risk to me though.
The only concern is injury, but it's a big one (the chance of his brain turning to jello on the next helmt-to-helmet contact). He could be playing Madden at Jahvid Best's house by the end of the season.
His talent is worth the risk to me though.
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cstu
Footballguy
Injuries are a real concern but he's very talented and produces when healthy.
He's also on a short list of TE's who have caught 80+ passes in the past 5 years: Gronk, Graham, Gonzo, Witten, Olsen, Pettigrew, and Cameron. The one that stands out on that list is Pettigrew, but he's not the athlete Cameron is.
He's also on a short list of TE's who have caught 80+ passes in the past 5 years: Gronk, Graham, Gonzo, Witten, Olsen, Pettigrew, and Cameron. The one that stands out on that list is Pettigrew, but he's not the athlete Cameron is.
cstu
Footballguy
Wallace and Hartline (178 targets last year) have been replaced by Stills, Jennings, and rookie Parker who was just take off PUP after surgery in June.
I expect Landry to lead the team in targets but see no reason while Cameron can get 100+ himself (if healthy of course).
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TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Fantasysports1
Footballguy
The thing is do you take Cameron at his ADP or do you wait for another TE you are comfortable with? If there is a QB you really like maybe you take the QB. At this point you probably took the majority of your starting unit. If you think the dropoff could be little to none to a guy like Julius, Witten, Eifert, Ertz, then you can grab a QB or keep taking RB/WR.
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So is anyone still sitting on this turd blossom? He hasn't had more than 35 yards since Week 2. I've watched the Dolphins last two games, and he's simply not involved in the offense. His "big" catch last night was on a broken down play.
Worst part is I've had to keep rolling him out there with Gates hurt. If Gates is out again I may just drop him for a JAG like Gillmore, or maybe invest in Walford's upside. It wouldn't take much for either of them to exceed Cameron's 2/34.
Worst part is I've had to keep rolling him out there with Gates hurt. If Gates is out again I may just drop him for a JAG like Gillmore, or maybe invest in Walford's upside. It wouldn't take much for either of them to exceed Cameron's 2/34.
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LittlePhatty
Footballguy
This thread title still says Cleveland, so that's a pretty good indicator of how relevant he is this year.
Watching the game last night, I saw him *almost* make a very athletic "twist around, reach over two defenders' helmets" grab at the ball, which he had in his hands briefly before a helmet knocked it out. It was just a brief reminder of his potential. I still think the Miami offense is stacked with talent. They just aren't churning out performances that match.
Watching the game last night, I saw him *almost* make a very athletic "twist around, reach over two defenders' helmets" grab at the ball, which he had in his hands briefly before a helmet knocked it out. It was just a brief reminder of his potential. I still think the Miami offense is stacked with talent. They just aren't churning out performances that match.
Except that even last week, when they were blowing out Houston, he was barely targeted. It was all screens and quick slants -- which obviously worked well -- but those simply aren't his strengths.
Fireinside
Footballguy
It was a down year for Cameron but I still think he can produce. I like that he stayed with Gase and I like even more that Gase said they are planning to make plays that suit Cameron more and he thought he was not used well by Dolphins coaching staff. Now, I think he's a sleeper and if you get him cheap I would acquire him if the price is right.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
So, we are lead to believe without it ever being addressed that the reason for Cameron taking a nose dive in production was the coaching/scheme fault? He did take some personal responsibility in talking about the timing (sort of). I didn't watch any Dolphin games- does this ring true or is this going to be a case of misplaced hope?
he had a crazy good first 4 games in 2013 (i believe), athletically he has the tools you want a passing catch TE to have... it's not hard to buy in to this gase optimism, especially considering how barren TE is outside of the top 6 guys... you're looking for reason to hope for a cheap TE to come through for you.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Honestly I don't know. I just saw the article so thought it was worth mentioning. No one has been talking about Cameron since he went to Miami in this thread.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
From Joes email a couple days ago.
Shutout
Footballguy
Still feel the same now?
What's his price today? Asking because @Fireinsideis asking in a post above.
To me, I have the same opinion as before: Looking back at how quickly the top 10 change in fantasy at the position, I don't think he is all that special, add to it that there are a lot of potential mouths to feed and I just can't see him being "featured". Certainly not to the tune of 100 balls or anything. The Dolphins can't do half of what they are talking up unless they become the 2nd coming of the Greatest show on turf. They want to run it..alot. They want that runner to catch balls. They are raving about Parker. They are raving about Landry. They love their new guy and have plans for him. Do they never plan to be on defense? To buy into the Phins makes me think I should be a Tannehill owner.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am not so much worried about the mouths to feed- there certainly were a number of them in Denver and Thomas flourished because of that (IMO) in the Gase system. My concern is more about the player (health mostly) and his QB (Has Tannehill ever thrown to a TE?).
Shutout
Footballguy
I think it work mostly in Denver because Peyton Manning was on fire at the time. I don't think Tannehill can fill those shoes in that way plus Demaryius Thomas commanded a unique type of attention I don't think the Dolphins have yet.
The health issue has always been a big issue to me with this player. I don't see it talked about too much (not more than a usual player but I think it should be).
Fireinside
Footballguy
I like Gase a lot, I like what he did with Bears and Broncos. Not saying he will be a top-5 TE, but I certainly think he can easily be top-10. I invested a lot for Cameron and I have to say I was dead wrong, but at the moment I have positive feeling that it might turn out ok. Is top-10 enough for you, that's your own call, but I like the way Dolphins is evolving. If plays like he last year, he's a lost cause. Now, he at least has a chance to play in a good system that feeds TE.
Truth still is, someone in that offense is gone suffer from targets, because I can't see Dolphins turning their offense around to be the greatest show on turf II. But I do see them improving and I see that Cameron is in a nice place to get more targets.
Shutout
Footballguy
I've always been more "down" on Cameron than most and with the injuries, etc, just was always willing to play the devil's advocate for those who like him as a top 10 (or higher at times).
Here's the thing I'll leave you to chew on (doesn't make me right, just playing the devil's advocate): I think last year was served up about as good as it could have been for him to, in theory, have a huge fantasy year and he did almost nothing. Extend that to his career and he appears to be fitting nicely into the "often injured" and "look, there's a guy that had that one nice stretch..once" rut. I just think a truly gifted TE is going to find a way to stand out and he's done a lot more blending in.
My opinion is if I owned him, I'm still selling at late 2nd or better. I will be very surprised if he does enough to make me regret it at that price.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
There are mixed signals here.
In 2013, the Bronco WR's were Thomas, Welker and Decker. 2014, switch out Decker with Sanders. Julius was pretty productive both seasons. He moves to Jax and his TD's took a huge dive along with much smaller declines across the board in other stats.
Gase goes to the Bears in 2015 and Bennett has a marked decline in production from previous years with the Bears. Miller kind of took some production but still there was a decline. Unless there was an injury issue I am not remembering then this is a mixed bag really.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Bennett was out 5 games
Fireinside
Footballguy
I understand that, can't say I can totally disagree. But Reed was always injured too and I remember my friend telling me don't buy, he's always injured. Well, I got Niles Paul and for awhile during pre-season he looked to be #1 TE with Redskins, got injured and here we are year later and everyone is talking how Reed is almost as good as Gronk (who is injured often too). Jordan is 27 and had a very promising year with Browns, injury riddled year with Browns and a bad year in a bad system with Dolphins. I kind of think it would be stupid to sell him now as he can finally get some production and show what he is worth. If he can produce top-10 numbers I'm happy and I have no doubt in my mind he has the skills to do it-injuries happen to everyone.
Fireinside
Footballguy
And I should be worried why?
Not going to be.
just saying it's a part of the game and some have had more of them than others. Still own Niles Paul though in deeper dynasty Leagues, but not counting on Reed getting injured. It's just something you can't predict.
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My bad. I remembered him leaving the game in Week 1, but it was a shoulder injury not a concussion.
squistion
Footballguy
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6572/jordan-cameron
Ex-Dolphins and Browns TE Jordan Cameron announced his retirement from football.
An athletic marvel who played basketball at USC and emerged quickly on the scene in the NFL, Cameron exploded for 80 catches, 917 yards, and seven touchdowns as a third-year pro before a slew of injuries -- including several concussions -- derailed his career, and ultimately ended it. He made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and was a top-four fantasy tight end that year, but otherwise never finished inside the top-20 fantasy tight ends across six seasons. Cameron turns 29 in August.
Mar 10 - 12:44 PM
Ex-Dolphins and Browns TE Jordan Cameron announced his retirement from football.
An athletic marvel who played basketball at USC and emerged quickly on the scene in the NFL, Cameron exploded for 80 catches, 917 yards, and seven touchdowns as a third-year pro before a slew of injuries -- including several concussions -- derailed his career, and ultimately ended it. He made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and was a top-four fantasy tight end that year, but otherwise never finished inside the top-20 fantasy tight ends across six seasons. Cameron turns 29 in August.
Mar 10 - 12:44 PM
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Great talent. It's a rough sport. I hope all those concussions don't impact the rest of his life.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Sudden.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
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