40 feared dead in Oakland after party ends in fire. (1 Viewer)

[Kafka]

Always fun when a bunch of squares show up and preach down to lowly artists

Yeah, because that's what going on here...

or is it?

 

[the moops]

Always fun when a bunch of yahoos show up and support someone responsible for 36 deaths.

I have not said one word in support of this fool

 

[meanjoegreen]

Always fun when a bunch of yahoos show up and support someone responsible for 36 deaths.

I missed where yahoos were supporting Almena.

 

[BassNBrew]

Apparently when one self labels as an artist that provides license in the view of some to violate the law and to violate common sense.

Always fun when a bunch of squares show up and preach down to lowly artists

I missed where yahoos were supporting Almena.

Ditkaless calling out the Almena for labeling himself as an artist and doing what he could to help help artists in the area for violating the law.

Oops calls him out for being a square and preaching down to Almena.

At least that how it reads.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I managed an old, rundown, arts studio building here in downtown Minneapolis. We rented to some shady characters who were living in their studio space when it wasn't zoned for that. Owners were not technically aware, but they knew what was going down, just as I am sure the owner of the Oakland warehouse knew.

No chance that the owner is skating completely on this.

So basically you are the same as this guy?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Ditkaless calling out the Almena for labeling himself as an artist and doing what he could to help help artists in the area for violating the law.

Oops calls him out for being a square and preaching down to Almena.

At least that how it reads.

I am a square, at least to those 20 years or more younger than me.  Hell, if I started dropping names and events from my biography to refute the charge many here would look at me just as I once looked at those citing their Ratpack connections and experiences to refute the charge.

I would not call one brief comment "preaching", but it is alright if The Moops does.

I believe the Moops mistook my meaning, but that is at least partially, if not entirely, on me.  After all, I could have expressed myself differently, and perhaps more clearly. 

I do appreciate you, BassnBrew, giving me the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Apple Jack]

Poor Otis.

 

[[icon]]

So are they going to have to start looking to a source outside the city for beaded friendship bracelets and hemp sharktooth necklaces to sell outside jam band shows, now? Or do we think new sources of this art will rise to fill the gap? 

 

[Hilts]

So are they going to have to start looking to a source outside the city for beaded friendship bracelets and hemp sharktooth necklaces to sell outside jam band shows, now? Or do we think new sources of this art will rise to fill the gap? 

36 folk died. Stop. 

 

[Green and Gold]

Ugh, guy I work with here in Massachusetts found out that his daughter was one of the victims.

 

[the moops]

I believe the Moops mistook my meaning, but that is at least partially, if not entirely, on me. 

We're good.I thought you were referring to the entire crew, not just the landlord. He's a turd.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

We're good.I thought you were referring to the entire crew, not just the landlord. He's a turd.

By speaking in their vernacular he was able to take advantage of, and to abuse innocent, naïve persons and to subject them to dangers the risks of which they may not have adequately understood and were willing to overlook and to minimize due to other pressing issues in their lives.

They let a toxic, virulent presence into their midst, unaware of its true nature.

 

[culdeus]

I'm still gonna guess that this guy never sees a day in jail and maybe pays some civil stuff out and ends up bankrupt at least on paper.  I'm no lawyer but I highly doubt even of all the stuff that's happened here that there is grounds to put him in jail for a very long time.  Some are acting like he locked the door and threw a match in.  At the end of the day the cause was an accident.  We don't hold people accountable for when they kill a family of four while drunk, why would we hold this guy accountable for an somewhat similar risky situation?  

Note: Not arguing there shouldn't be jail time, but I'm mostly skeptical there will be any.  

 

[simey]

So are they going to have to start looking to a source outside the city for beaded friendship bracelets and hemp sharktooth necklaces to sell outside jam band shows, now? Or do we think new sources of this art will rise to fill the gap? 

 

[Johnny Rock]

I'm still gonna guess that this guy never sees a day in jail and maybe pays some civil stuff out and ends up bankrupt at least on paper.  I'm no lawyer but I highly doubt even of all the stuff that's happened here that there is grounds to put him in jail for a very long time.  Some are acting like he locked the door and threw a match in.  At the end of the day the cause was an accident.  We don't hold people accountable for when they kill a family of four while drunk, why would we hold this guy accountable for an somewhat similar risky situation?  

Note: Not arguing there shouldn't be jail time, but I'm mostly skeptical there will be any.  

I disagree but I'm not a lawyer. 

 

[EYLive]

I'm a tad confused. The original LATimes article says:  "The property is one of several owned by Chor N. Ng, according to her daughter, Eva Ng, 36. She said the warehouse was leased as studio space for an art collective and not used as a dwelling."

Who's the actual owner of this building?

If it's a commercial building, the lease should restrict residential/habitational use. That may limit the liability of the owner.

Today's reports say a faulty refrigerator started the fire. Does the manufacturer bear any responsibility of the damages?

 

[BassNBrew]

I'm still gonna guess that this guy never sees a day in jail and maybe pays some civil stuff out and ends up bankrupt at least on paper.  I'm no lawyer but I highly doubt even of all the stuff that's happened here that there is grounds to put him in jail for a very long time.  Some are acting like he locked the door and threw a match in.  At the end of the day the cause was an accident.  We don't hold people accountable for when they kill a family of four while drunk, why would we hold this guy accountable for an somewhat similar risky situation?  

Note: Not arguing there shouldn't be jail time, but I'm mostly skeptical there will be any.  

Seems to recall some plant manager at a factory doing some jail time.  Stokey seems to be sticking in my mind for some reason.

 

[EYLive]

I'm really bummed out for the poor insurance underwriter who walked  into work this morning and found out they were writing this building. They get to spend the next year explaining why. And if they were providing umbrella coverage....oof.

From one insurance guy to another: if the commercial building was used illegally for a concert/party, residential occupancy, the fire started due to malfunctioning fridge, loss control recs were not complied with... seems like enough reason to deny the claim. That's IF there was coverage in place to begin with.

 

[El Floppo]

I'm a tad confused. The original LATimes article says:  "The property is one of several owned by Chor N. Ng, according to her daughter, Eva Ng, 36. She said the warehouse was leased as studio space for an art collective and not used as a dwelling."

Who's the actual owner of this building?

If it's a commercial building, the lease should restrict residential/habitational use. That may limit the liability of the owner.

Today's reports say a faulty refrigerator started the fire. Does the manufacturer bear any responsibility of the damages?

people in here are talking about the guy who holds the lease facing legal repercussions, not the owners. but they will undoubtedly get sued.

 

[Johnny Rock]

Doubt it was a malfunctioning fridge. It was most likely plugged into an extension cord octopus of wires without proper breakers. 

 

[El Floppo]

Doubt it was a malfunctioning fridge. It was most likely plugged into an extension cord octopus of wires without proper breakers. 

yeah- new fridge, but thought it was purely electrical related. something like the fridge needed a dedicated outlet and was plugged into the octpus you described. or even into a standard outlet that had waaaay too much on its circuit.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

So are they going to have to start looking to a source outside the city for beaded friendship bracelets and hemp sharktooth necklaces to sell outside jam band shows, now? Or do we think new sources of this art will rise to fill the gap? 

you're idea of who lived in this place is extremely flawed

 

[CGRdrJoe]

The latest local reports are now that the building hadn't actually been inspected in 30 years. Ooofff

 

[AAABatteries]

Ugh, guy I work with here in Massachusetts found out that his daughter was one of the victims.

Wow - that's horrible.  Condolences to your co-worker.  That's unbearable to think about happening to anyone I know much less one of your kids.

 

[Hilts]

Some of the last texts included "I'm going to die, mom." 

Good lord. Can't ever imagine waking up to that text or how much that's going to haunt them. Thoughts to the loved ones of those who died. 

 

[CurlyNight]

The latest local reports are now that the building hadn't actually been inspected in 30 years. Ooofff

Mayor said not to blame city personnel. They are understaffed..

 

[Otis]

Saw the reporters trying to interview this landlord dude. That place looks like a meth den in the pictures, and he's a lunatic. Talking about them being his children and he was trying to bring beauty into the world. Barely lucid. 

 

[shadyridr]

Ugh, guy I work with here in Massachusetts found out that his daughter was one of the victims.

Sorry to hear that. Can't wait for icon to make another joke.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Saw the reporters trying to interview this landlord dude. That place looks like a meth den in the pictures, and he's a lunatic. Talking about them being his children and he was trying to bring beauty into the world. Barely lucid. 

Trying is the key word, evidently NBC has been paying for his hotel since the fire in order to get exclusive rights to him. The media is crazy 

 

[culdeus]

30 years since an inspection?  I added low voltage landscape lighting to my perimeter and the city sent two people over.  I thought California was the land of the bureaucrat

 

[[icon]]

30 years since an inspection?  I added low voltage landscape lighting to my perimeter and the city sent two people over.  I thought California was the land of the bureaucrat

Not going to inspect it if they don't expect people to be stupid enough to live there. 

 

[jonessed]

30 years since an inspection?  I added low voltage landscape lighting to my perimeter and the city sent two people over.  I thought California was the land of the bureaucrat

I highly doubt the city didnt know what was going on. The laws allowing occupants to block inspectors from entering the building is  . 

 

[GroveDiesel]

Trying is the key word, evidently NBC has been paying for his hotel since the fire in order to get exclusive rights to him. The media is crazy 

Unreal. 

 

[Jobber]

I highly doubt the city didnt know what was going on. The laws allowing occupants to block inspectors from entering the building is  . 

I was told years ago that city inspectors needed to be invited in in my state (MN). If they suspect you finished your basement, and want to look around, I could tell them no. I'm not sure if that's for sure the case, and am too lazy to look it up.

 

[the moops]

Not going to inspect it if they don't expect people to be stupid enough to live there. 

Do you always have to he such a ####? 

 

[[icon]]

Do you always have to he such a ####? 

This is a horrible tragedy for those attending the functions there without fully realizing what they were walking into. I am by NO means making light of that.... The "leader" and to a much lesser degree, the residents, who were white literally playing with fire, however.... 

 

[Dr Oadi]

I highly doubt the city didnt know what was going on. The laws allowing occupants to block inspectors from entering the building is  . 

It is pure lunacy for it to be legal to not allow government agents snooping around your home. 

It's for your own good people. If not your home will become a den of spiritualweirdness cult and burn up in a firetrap!

 

[culdeus]

Worth pointing out a game warden in Texas can turn your place upside down without a warrant. Now if they find your meth lab they can't run you on that but they can sure hint to their cop buddies. 

Don't get the refusal for a code inspection. I don't know what grounds you have to do that in every state. 

While this guy is a doosh I'm willing to throw some of this at the feet of the city. They knew something was going on there. 

 

[El Floppo]

This is a horrible tragedy for those attending the functions there without fully realizing what they were walking into. I am by NO means making light of that.... The "leader" and to a much lesser degree, the residents, who were white literally playing with fire, however.... 

was it finalized that somebody was "playing with fire" at this party? that flaming f-k sign posted early on... didn't see it confirmed as being from the party. 

or are you saying "literally" playing with fire to mean screwing with the electrical system?

 

[[icon]]

was it finalized that somebody was "playing with fire" at this party? that flaming f-k sign posted early on... didn't see it confirmed as being from the party. 

or are you saying "literally" playing with fire to mean screwing with the electrical system?

There have been multiple videos/photos of folks waving around candles and torches as part of performances in addition to testimony about candles being all over the place. Havent seen anything confirming the F--K sign but guessing that wasn't legit. Bottom line, these folks were illegally residing in a tinder box and were waving torches around.

If it turns out overloading electrical systems that weren't up to code was the culprit instead of reckless use of fire while living in a tinder box, that's unfortunate as well. However, it seems like one or more of the people residing in this place were absolute morons and unfortunately seemed destined to kill a lot of innocent folks. 

 

 

[rockaction]

This thread went completely off the rails at the blink of an [icon]

RIP to those grieving.  

... these folks were illegally residing in a tinder box and were waiving torches around.

I'd opt out of that whole scenario, too.  

 

[squistion]

30 years since an inspection?  I added low voltage landscape lighting to my perimeter and the city sent two people over.  I thought California was the land of the bureaucrat

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/08/us/the-oakland-fire-delving-into-what-happened-and-why.html?_r=0

According to its records, Oakland’s Planning and Building Department has not had an inspector inside the Ghost Ship in the last 30 years, Darin Ranelletti, the department’s interim director, said Wednesday. “That means that we had no applications for permits in the last 30 years and there were no violations that were submitted for interior work within the main building attributed to that street address,” he said.

 

[simey]

There have been multiple videos/photos of folks waving around candles and torches as part of performances

However, it seems like one or more of the people residing in this place were absolute morons and unfortunately seemed destined to kill a lot of innocent folks. 

 

The video of two women performing with fire with a band were more than likely part of the hired performers, and not residence of the building. 

You continuously keep making derogatory remarks about the residence that you know nothing about, but I can't say I'm surprised being that you can be very mean-spirited.  Something is wrong with you. You lack sensitivity, empathy, compassion, etc. You're basically as mean as a striped snake. The ghosts from A Christmas Carol need to pay you a visit, Mr.

 

[Dr Oadi]

The video of two women performing with fire with a band were more than likely part of the hired performers, and not residence of the building. 

You continuously keep making derogatory remarks about the residence that you know nothing about, but I can't say I'm surprised being that you can be very mean-spirited.  Something is wrong with you. You lack sensitivity, empathy, compassion, etc. You're basically as mean as a striped snake. The ghosts from A Christmas Carol need to pay you a visit, Mr.

I saw a swastika in a picture so I'm pretty sure they were pretty bad people to allow that hate filled symbol to lay around. 

The picture caption says it is a symbol of good fortune but just like that rebel flag we all know it's hate!

 

[DocHolliday]

I'm still gonna guess that this guy never sees a day in jail and maybe pays some civil stuff out and ends up bankrupt at least on paper.  I'm no lawyer but I highly doubt even of all the stuff that's happened here that there is grounds to put him in jail for a very long time.  Some are acting like he locked the door and threw a match in.  At the end of the day the cause was an accident.  We don't hold people accountable for when they kill a family of four while drunk, why would we hold this guy accountable for an somewhat similar risky situation?  

Note: Not arguing there shouldn't be jail time, but I'm mostly skeptical there will be any.  

I am not a lawyer but that guy will go to jail.  He may commit suicide first since he seems insane though.  He was collecting rent for a place that was not supposed to have residents.  He knew that the place had a ton of hazards.  It is not like this happened a few days after someone moved in.  The conditions were in place for years.  A tragedy of some kind was bound to happen in that building. 

 

[BassNBrew]

I am not a lawyer but that guy will go to jail.  He may commit suicide first since he seems insane though.  He was collecting rent for a place that was not supposed to have residents.  He knew that the place had a ton of hazards.  It is not like this happened a few days after someone moved in.  The conditions were in place for years.  A tragedy of some kind was bound to happen in that building. 

Easy way to get him would be if he didn't report the rent on his tax return.