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9-year-old girl accidentally kills instructor with uzi (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Well, I have seen the devastation that allowing old growth forests can have on the verdant hills. Failure to remove the growth allows for the proliferation of pests, an unhealthy situation and one to be avoided. I have always been a bit of an enthusiast and I have a sound eye for esthetics, and I am willing to work overtime with no additional compensation.
sublimeone
Footballguy
Seems the primary argument against hunting is the motive of the hunter. If it's for sport it's wrong, if it's for food it's ok... But it's never for food so it's always wrong.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Humans are natural hunters by evolution. We kill to survive, most of us anyhow. I do not outsource all of my killing like some mafia Don putting out a contract. Sometimes I do my own work. I enjoy stalking, and I enjoy shooting. I am always somewhat saddened by the kill itself, but I do enjoy the meat I provide. I actually much prefer shooting animals with my camera, but overall I find value in hunting, in the understanding of what it is to be human.
For me it is somewhat more cost effective or efficient than going to a grocery, but the fixed costs were sunk for me decades ago, at least many of them. I am not motivated by the relatively small incremental savings. I do have a taste for wild game.
Growing up I lived on a working farm and feed lot. We had a small slaughterhouse. I found having to castrate and to kill animals distasteful, and remember crying the first time I did either. I got over it for the most part.
I have not passed down the tradition.
When I was in my teens and early twenties 3 generations of my family would go on a white tail hunt every November. I enjoyed those times for the family time. I especially liked walking the woods with my Grandpa. Back in those days I stoned pretty good and I really liked being stoned in the woods. On one hunt my Grandfather wanted to know why I passed up a great opportunity. He noticed in fact that I had not shot anything for the preceding couple of years. He examined my gun and realized I was not loaded. Of course not, you can't be walking around stoned and with a gun if you are at all responsible. He asked me about it. I told him that for me the part of hunting I enjoyed was being with him while he did something he loved, and I was glad to be there to haul his kills from the woods. I also explained that I was generally stoned and it was not advisable to be carrying a loaded weapon. We hunted together for several more years before his death. I never shot and he never discussed my stoning with my father. We both just enjoyed the company. After he died I gave up stoning and found I missed hunting.
For me it is somewhat more cost effective or efficient than going to a grocery, but the fixed costs were sunk for me decades ago, at least many of them. I am not motivated by the relatively small incremental savings. I do have a taste for wild game.
Growing up I lived on a working farm and feed lot. We had a small slaughterhouse. I found having to castrate and to kill animals distasteful, and remember crying the first time I did either. I got over it for the most part.
I have not passed down the tradition.
When I was in my teens and early twenties 3 generations of my family would go on a white tail hunt every November. I enjoyed those times for the family time. I especially liked walking the woods with my Grandpa. Back in those days I stoned pretty good and I really liked being stoned in the woods. On one hunt my Grandfather wanted to know why I passed up a great opportunity. He noticed in fact that I had not shot anything for the preceding couple of years. He examined my gun and realized I was not loaded. Of course not, you can't be walking around stoned and with a gun if you are at all responsible. He asked me about it. I told him that for me the part of hunting I enjoyed was being with him while he did something he loved, and I was glad to be there to haul his kills from the woods. I also explained that I was generally stoned and it was not advisable to be carrying a loaded weapon. We hunted together for several more years before his death. I never shot and he never discussed my stoning with my father. We both just enjoyed the company. After he died I gave up stoning and found I missed hunting.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Hey Doc. Get over yourself.Hey Jayrod>I hear Golden Retriever is good eatin.
Plus if you take two of them out, you can shoot one and the other one will retrieve it. win/win
Literally the first time I went hunting was for the meat. I was unemployed and going through a lot of crap with my ex-employer. You may have seen the thread about it. My grandparents had a farm with acres of woods but I'd never hunted it. It was never my thing. But at the time it was a way to get a lot of meat without a lot of cost. I called up my dad, borrowed my uncles gun and we went to the farm. That year it cost me $90 and took home about 100 lbs of all natural venison. I realized the benefit and have gone deer hunting every year since. That is the only hunting I have ever done.
I don't know what your really after here, but you are wrong on this point.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
I have often thought it would be really cool to experience a hunt like the native Americans did. I've gotten a taste of the rush that would be hunting big game with rifles but to go out with a spear and a non compound bow that be a rush. Maybe hunt seal like the Eskimos do. Some guys can tap into that primal feeling much easier than others, that is how some people call it a sport, although I wouldn't call it that. More like having sex, a primal experience.
Otis
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
Only you would start a thread like this out with that statement.
Otis
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Last edited by a moderator:
Otis
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
You're missing the point, either intentionally or unintentionally. I can't tell which. You usually strike me as a really smart guy, so I have my suspicions.When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
igbomb
Footballguy
I come from a family of hunters and support the right to do so absolutely. But you're totally twisting the point. Many, many hunters are at least slightly dishonest about their reasoning for hunting. They give out platitudes about doing it for meat or to benefit the habitats/environment. Or my favorite, that without hunters the animals would die gruesome deaths due to overcrowding. But the reality is that the hunters want that thrill. When a hunter shoots a deer, it is rarely a somber moment where they take a moment to reflect on the life they just took. It's a celebration for having conquered. I can't spend five minutes at the Thanksgiving table without hearing story after story about the deer that was shot or just missed. It's never about pride for the amount of meat, it's about the size of the rack (isn't it always).When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Just own it. People like to hunt because it's fun. Just stop with the noble pursuit bullcrap.
drummer
Footballguy
THAT DUCK PUT UP A HELLUVA FIGHT!I come from a family of hunters and support the right to do so absolutely. But you're totally twisting the point. Many, many hunters are at least slightly dishonest about their reasoning for hunting. They give out platitudes about doing it for meat or to benefit the habitats/environment. Or my favorite, that without hunters the animals would die gruesome deaths due to overcrowding. But the reality is that the hunters want that thrill. When a hunter shoots a deer, it is rarely a somber moment where they take a moment to reflect on the life they just took. It's a celebration for having conquered. I can't spend five minutes at the Thanksgiving table without hearing story after story about the deer that was shot or just missed. It's never about pride for the amount of meat, it's about the size of the rack (isn't it always).When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Just own it. People like to hunt because it's fun. Just stop with the noble pursuit bullcrap.
Otis
Footballguy
Christ almighty thank you.I come from a family of hunters and support the right to do so absolutely. But you're totally twisting the point. Many, many hunters are at least slightly dishonest about their reasoning for hunting. They give out platitudes about doing it for meat or to benefit the habitats/environment. Or my favorite, that without hunters the animals would die gruesome deaths due to overcrowding. But the reality is that the hunters want that thrill. When a hunter shoots a deer, it is rarely a somber moment where they take a moment to reflect on the life they just took. It's a celebration for having conquered. I can't spend five minutes at the Thanksgiving table without hearing story after story about the deer that was shot or just missed. It's never about pride for the amount of meat, it's about the size of the rack (isn't it always).When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Just own it. People like to hunt because it's fun. Just stop with the noble pursuit bullcrap.
drummer
Footballguy
BigJohn
Footballguy
I seriously doubt any gun advocate would argue against a law that forbids 9 year olds from firing fully automatic, or even semi automatic weapons. The problem is, these laws that are proposed are never that narrow and usually far overreach their intention.
G
Guest
Guest
igbomb
Footballguy
Totally disagree. I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say they are opposed to virtually any gun law because of the 'slippery slope' argument. I don't care how narrow the wording on a bill would be, the NRA and gun advocates would fight it.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Not exactly what I was saying,
but you're smart enough to know that.My point is that you have a lot of hatred towards people who have/use/enjoy guns when in reality, the "gun culture" is a lot more deply rooted in society. There are millions of people who are exposed to guns who have never held one in real life. Focusing on one little group who actually enjoy firearms for whatever reason (whether you agree or not) and blaming them is kind of ignoring the bigger picture.
For the record, I'm not saying that we should ignore it, or that it's OK to introduce youngsters to guns. Much like my view on gun control in general, I agree with the principal behind it all. I just have yet to find any solution or proposal that will actually work to get us to where we need to be.
Otis
Footballguy
Toy cowboy pistols and video games are a far cry from the gun culture that centers family activities around handling and shooting deadly weapons.Not exactly what I was saying,
My point is that you have a lot of hatred towards people who have/use/enjoy guns when in reality, the "gun culture" is a lot more deply rooted in society. There are millions of people who are exposed to guns who have never held one in real life. Focusing on one little group who actually enjoy firearms for whatever reason (whether you agree or not) and blaming them is kind of ignoring the bigger picture.
For the record, I'm not saying that we should ignore it, or that it's OK to introduce youngsters to guns. Much like my view on gun control in general, I agree with the principal behind it all. I just have yet to find any solution or proposal that will actually work to get us to where we need to be.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
bra ####### voI come from a family of hunters and support the right to do so absolutely. But you're totally twisting the point. Many, many hunters are at least slightly dishonest about their reasoning for hunting. They give out platitudes about doing it for meat or to benefit the habitats/environment. Or my favorite, that without hunters the animals would die gruesome deaths due to overcrowding. But the reality is that the hunters want that thrill. When a hunter shoots a deer, it is rarely a somber moment where they take a moment to reflect on the life they just took. It's a celebration for having conquered. I can't spend five minutes at the Thanksgiving table without hearing story after story about the deer that was shot or just missed. It's never about pride for the amount of meat, it's about the size of the rack (isn't it always).When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Just own it. People like to hunt because it's fun. Just stop with the noble pursuit bullcrap.
G
Guest
Guest
Can it be both? It's as much about the comradery as the "kill".I come from a family of hunters and support the right to do so absolutely. But you're totally twisting the point. Many, many hunters are at least slightly dishonest about their reasoning for hunting. They give out platitudes about doing it for meat or to benefit the habitats/environment. Or my favorite, that without hunters the animals would die gruesome deaths due to overcrowding. But the reality is that the hunters want that thrill. When a hunter shoots a deer, it is rarely a somber moment where they take a moment to reflect on the life they just took. It's a celebration for having conquered. I can't spend five minutes at the Thanksgiving table without hearing story after story about the deer that was shot or just missed. It's never about pride for the amount of meat, it's about the size of the rack (isn't it always).When you hypocrites go out and eat your tasty burger from the steer that was likely castrated with no anesthesia, had it's horns cut off with bolt cutters and was branded multiple times(again without anesthesia ) before it had it's throat slit and bled to death(or if it was lucky got a bolt to the brain) you can pat yourself on the back for just how much you give a rats ### about animals and how they are treated.Exactly.100% not fishing. I've post this same opinion numerous times over the year. None of the other "reasons" really wash.
Just own it. People like to hunt because it's fun. Just stop with the noble pursuit bullcrap.
Even if it's not the intention of the hunter, there is a conservation element.Stop deer hunting tomorrow, and the state governments will have to pay someone to control the deer population. Why spend money when people will pay to do the job for you?
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Find me one person who has said that they think it was a GOOD idea for a 9-year old to shoot an Uzi in this situation? Not someone who is OK with adults having guns, but specifically a 9-year old shooting an Uzi like you mentioned...
mr roboto
Footballguy
Of course hunters hunt for the stalk and kill. It's ridiculous to say otherwise. I don't think it's stupid or immoral, but it is slightly weird that they get off on it. My uncles and older brother are hunters. I would hunt and shoot pheasant or deer if invited for the experience of it (and the meat truly is really good) but I don't really enjoy it so it's not a hobby for me.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
I'm sure if you use some of that well developed reading ability you display so often you might realize that there was a time and place where only animal killers got laid.
drummer
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I agree with BOTH of the above truthfully. I don't hunt. I have zero problem with guns used responsibly. I don't have an issue with people who choose to hunt. Hunting is fun. It is also, as Cliff Clavin said, a means to an end. I know plenty of people who hunt for the economics of it. My mother grew up dirt poor. Her father hunted deer and squirrels so they could have meat over the winter. With that said, I think many who hunt do enjoy the act of shooting something. Is that a sin? I don't think so, but if you want to, cool.
To coyote5's post, I think the thing I see here that I don't like is that in general, I haven't seen the, as Otis said, GunGuys try and tell the "non-GunGuys" that they have to go get a gun and shoot something because they are missing out on the way of the world, but I have seen a lot of the opposite with people pushing their beliefs on others because they don't understand, can't relate, and weren't raised that way. All the "back-woods hick" talk is borderline prejudice in some ways. At a minimum, I think "elitist" is a good start. I think it was even quoted earlier that some of the anti-gun folks "don't understand" the love of guns. That's fine, but why must you protest it? I don't understand why anyone would want to live in the concrete jungle of a huge city, but millions do. To each their own. I don't feel the need to go call them out for it. Despite what many think, you don't have to be some cousin-loving hick to enjoy guns. You don't have to be dirt poor to enjoy hunting.
I'll never understand why people get so worked up over the beliefs of others.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I totally agree that hunters just like to kill. And they do it for the thrill of the kill. Same with fishermen. Or butterfly collectors. All vicious murders just getting high off of the thrill of killing. 
Fat Nick
Footballguy
NRA and "gun advocates" <> The average person who owns and shoots a gun. I wouldn't call any of us here hard-core NRA members. In fact, many of the GunGuys have specifically said that they hate these issues because of the Anti-gun protests AND the NRA's zero-tolerance for anything else.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
You have a serious problem over-reaching what people are saying. You started by posting about introducing people to weapons. I said that the larger culture is often the one that introduces people to weapons, not the GunGuys. Now you've backtracked and it sounds like you are saying that you think the only unacceptable "introduction" of firearms to small children is via real guns? i.e. it sounds like you're saying you don't have an issue with kids playing Grand Theft Auto and shooting hookers because that's not IRL.Toy cowboy pistols and video games are a far cry from the gun culture that centers family activities around handling and shooting deadly weapons.Not exactly what I was saying,
My point is that you have a lot of hatred towards people who have/use/enjoy guns when in reality, the "gun culture" is a lot more deply rooted in society. There are millions of people who are exposed to guns who have never held one in real life. Focusing on one little group who actually enjoy firearms for whatever reason (whether you agree or not) and blaming them is kind of ignoring the bigger picture.
For the record, I'm not saying that we should ignore it, or that it's OK to introduce youngsters to guns. Much like my view on gun control in general, I agree with the principal behind it all. I just have yet to find any solution or proposal that will actually work to get us to where we need to be.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
So de-evolution is the trump card in this?otis =
If we're going to go that route, why not just club the ##### over the head, drag her by the hair, and have your way?
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I think this is the point...I don't hunt and it's not for me either...but I also don't feel the need to chastise people who do enjoy it.Of course hunters hunt for the stalk and kill. It's ridiculous to say otherwise. I don't think it's stupid or immoral, but it is slightly weird that they get off on it. My uncles and older brother are hunters. I would hunt and shoot pheasant or deer if invited for the experience of it (and the meat truly is really good) but I don't really enjoy it so it's not a hobby for me.
Otis
Footballguy
We're really gonna make this about video games now?You have a serious problem over-reaching what people are saying. You started by posting about introducing people to weapons. I said that the larger culture is often the one that introduces people to weapons, not the GunGuys. Now you've backtracked and it sounds like you are saying that you think the only unacceptable "introduction" of firearms to small children is via real guns? i.e. it sounds like you're saying you don't have an issue with kids playing Grand Theft Auto and shooting hookers because that's not IRL.Toy cowboy pistols and video games are a far cry from the gun culture that centers family activities around handling and shooting deadly weapons.Not exactly what I was saying,
My point is that you have a lot of hatred towards people who have/use/enjoy guns when in reality, the "gun culture" is a lot more deply rooted in society. There are millions of people who are exposed to guns who have never held one in real life. Focusing on one little group who actually enjoy firearms for whatever reason (whether you agree or not) and blaming them is kind of ignoring the bigger picture.
For the record, I'm not saying that we should ignore it, or that it's OK to introduce youngsters to guns. Much like my view on gun control in general, I agree with the principal behind it all. I just have yet to find any solution or proposal that will actually work to get us to where we need to be.
Otis
Footballguy
Gun Culture RomanceSo de-evolution is the trump card in this?otis =
If we're going to go that route, why not just club the ##### over the head, drag her by the hair, and have your way?
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Exactly. I go fishing every few weekends. If I did it for the thrill of the kill, I'd have stopped a long time ago, because I'm horrible at it and rarely catch anything. I don't even like to eat any of the kinds of fish I would hypothetically catch.I totally agree that hunters just like to kill. And they do it for the thrill of the kill. Same with fishermen. Or butterfly collectors. All vicious murders just getting high off of the thrill of killing.
BigJohn
Footballguy
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