A Case For DeAngelo Williams (2 Viewers)

[Lash]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)

DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protect

JStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheaded

if you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survive

now saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

 

[FavreCo]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart is getting a taste of what DWill has had to go thru in previous training camps.

 

[Traders2001]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart is getting a taste of what DWill has had to go thru in previous training camps.

 

[shader]

What, you mean Fox isn't going to start the new rookie RB he just drafted in the first round? Shocking! Where have we seen this before?

 

[simey]

What, you mean Fox isn't going to start the new rookie RB he just drafted in the first round? Shocking! Where have we seen this before?

DeAngelo wasn't ready to be the starter his rookie season, and he wasn't ready last year either. He has progressed a lot in his play since last season. Stewart is still recovering from toe surgery, and the Panthers are mixing him in slowly as not to have setbacks on his toe. I'm not really sure what your point is.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

 

[Lash]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

i agree, it just eerily looked like a Reggie Bush lack-of-vision on one and scared meand DeWill's burst outside after doing the same thing was much more explosive and against Philly 1's, whereas JStew just kinda went down with the pileand i just hate when the rookie back gives up the sack because they get the "can't block" label and it sticks

 

[JGalligan]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

I agree. He didn't have much blocking help at all. Barry Sanders probably couldn't have made anything out of what Stewart was being given.

 

[jurb26]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

I agree. He didn't have much blocking help at all. Barry Sanders probably couldn't have made anything out of what Stewart was being given.

I thought Car had poor run blocking the entire game, even the 1st string. Williams too had virtually nowhere to run. Williams had to create his big run with a great cut back and ran through a few tackles to make something out of it.

 

[Tau837]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

 

[gianmarco]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Also, he broke a couple tackles on that 23 yd run last night. Not great tackles, mostly an arm effort on one, but other RB's get slowed down enough by those to be taken down and he continued forward and kept pushing for more yds to finish the run off.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Those numbers are too vague. They don't list down and distance. For example, it's not hard to run for 5 yards on 3rd and long when the defense is laying back with 6 DBs. Stats do not always tell the whole story.I am using my own eyes and I just do not see him break many tackles. He did the same last night. He does have decent cutback ability and that springs him once in a while on a running down.

I see a RBBC RB at best when I watch him play.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Also, he broke a couple tackles on that 23 yd run last night. Not great tackles, mostly an arm effort on one, but other RB's get slowed down enough by those to be taken down and he continued forward and kept pushing for more yds to finish the run off.

That run was made by a cutback and it was a good run. How many other runs did he have last night where he went down at or close to first contact? I don't recall much.

He has to break more tackles and do so more often to be a starting RB. If he did that better, I doubt Stewart would have went 13th overall.

 

[Irish]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

i agree, it just eerily looked like a Reggie Bush lack-of-vision on one and scared meand DeWill's burst outside after doing the same thing was much more explosive and against Philly 1's, whereas JStew just kinda went down with the pileand i just hate when the rookie back gives up the sack because they get the "can't block" label and it sticks

Stewart is talented, but in terms of breaking tackles he is more of a "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" in that aspect.

 

[Tau837]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Those numbers are too vague. They don't list down and distance. For example, it's not hard to run for 5 yards on 3rd and long when the defense is laying back with 6 DBs. Stats do not always tell the whole story.I am using my own eyes and I just do not see him break many tackles. He did the same last night. He does have decent cutback ability and that springs him once in a while on a running down.

I see a RBBC RB at best when I watch him play.

I disagree. The link I provided lists his results at all downs & distances, but not combined with the area of the run. I don't see any evidence there that he piled up an inordinate amount of his yardage last year on 3rd & long or similarly favorable situations. IMO he is much better than most think around here.

 

[gianmarco]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Also, he broke a couple tackles on that 23 yd run last night. Not great tackles, mostly an arm effort on one, but other RB's get slowed down enough by those to be taken down and he continued forward and kept pushing for more yds to finish the run off.

That run was made by a cutback and it was a good run. How many other runs did he have last night where he went down at or close to first contact? I don't recall much.

He has to break more tackles and do so more often to be a starting RB. If he did that better, I doubt Stewart would have went 13th overall.

If you look at that run, one of the defenders was engaged and got a hand to slow him down but didn't. Then, DeAngelo was getting wrapped up around the 35 and ran for an additional 10 yds. Again, not necessarily a broken tackle, but he also didn't go down right away like some RB's would have.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I disagree.

The link I provided lists his results at all downs & distances, but not combined with the area of the run. I don't see any evidence there that he piled up an inordinate amount of his yardage last year on 3rd & long or similarly favorable situations. IMO he is much better than most think around here.

The 3rd and long reference is just an example of how stats (by themselves) can be misleading or lacking in information. Is there a difference between first and 10 in a tie game compared to 3rd and 15 in a blowout?I'm not saying Williams never had good runs between the tackles on running downs, but when I see him play, I rarely see him break tackles. Most of his good runs are to the outside. As far as I'm concerned, that is the reason he never beat out Foster.

Last night did nothing to change my opinion.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I'm not saying Williams never had good runs between the tackles on running downs, but when I see him play, I rarely see him break tackles. Most of his good runs are to the outside. As far as I'm concerned, that is the reason he never beat out Foster.Last night did nothing to change my opinion.

I could not agree more. D-Will is not a bad football player, he is just better suited as a "role" player. He is not going to get you the difficult yards between the tackles. That is why they drafted Stewart.

 

[gianmarco]

For those saying they've never seen him run inside and break tackles, has he ever really been given the chance? I mean, from the sounds of some posts here, it's as if he's gotten extensive work inside and has failed miserably. Maybe he has and I've completely missed it, but I don't think that's the case. If it were, then his 5.0 ypc is even more impressive if he's done so poorly inside.

How about we give the kid a chance and see if he can run inside like he's likely going to be given the opportunity to do before we say he can't do it.

 

[LHUCKS]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

 

[Tau837]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Please enlighten us.

 

[Loan Sharks]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

 

[jurb26]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

If you saw the 4 carries, you would see that he had nowhere to run on any of those carries. Misleading, who knows?

Not enough information to judge? Absolutely.

The same goes for the Williams splits from last year. There is not enough information to know. That's why seeing them play is so important.

 

[Loan Sharks]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

If you saw the 4 carries, you would see that he had nowhere to run on any of those carries. Misleading, who knows?

Not enough information to judge? Absolutely.

The same goes for the Williams splits from last year. There is not enough information to know. That's why seeing them play is so important.

I know it is not enough to judge Stewart, but how does Stewart "have no where to run" but Williams just sucks. I watched the game and Yeah Stewart had no where to run and the Eagles were giving it to the Panthers line. Williams got hit in the backfield a few times as well, Williams did however make some things happen.

 

[Wildman]

I disagree.

The link I provided lists his results at all downs & distances, but not combined with the area of the run. I don't see any evidence there that he piled up an inordinate amount of his yardage last year on 3rd & long or similarly favorable situations. IMO he is much better than most think around here.

The 3rd and long reference is just an example of how stats (by themselves) can be misleading or lacking in information. Is there a difference between first and 10 in a tie game compared to 3rd and 15 in a blowout?I'm not saying Williams never had good runs between the tackles on running downs, but when I see him play, I rarely see him break tackles. Most of his good runs are to the outside. As far as I'm concerned, that is the reason he never beat out Foster.

Last night did nothing to change my opinion.

I think the difficulty here is that Williams is in his second year and Foster has been in the league more than twice as long. Priest Holmes, Ahman Green, Brian Westbrook, and LJ are examples of players who developed slowly or sat behind other players until they improved in certain areas of play. DeAngelo Williams will never run with great power, but from what I observed of him in college, he has more than enough strength to be an inside runner. It's more about hitting a hole hard, running with good leverage, protecting the ball, and having the strength/stamina to keep doing it for 16 games. I have been known to be down on McFadden coming out of school as an inside runner, but not because of his size as much as his technique.

I think the challenge in analyzing a player is remaining static on an opinion until the numbers prove otherwise. Sometimes it helps you avoid bad picks, but it can keep you from getting strong mid-to-late round picks that can win you contests. Anthony's point is a good one, but trying to find the balance between his case and the flip side (the possibility Williams has greatly improved according to his coaching staff who sees him and studies his film) is the tough part.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I'm a Stewart owner and believer. 1st action at game-speed in the NFL, coming off of foot surgery. I'll give him a pass for last nite, but I was not impressed. DWill looked fairly good to me. If I were front office, I'd be looking for an improvement at my #1 RB spot too, but he looked adequate. The people who should be pissed off are the Nick Goings owners... I mean fans (there are no owners, are there?).

 

[Birdie048]

Might want to read this before judging who to take any time soon....

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=413148

 

[Jon_Moore]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

Can you elaborate on why you say he can't run between the tackles?

As for going down too easily on first contact, can you explain how you can reconcile that with his 5.0 ypc average last year? Do you really think he always avoided contact until 4+ yards beyond the line?

Also, he broke a couple tackles on that 23 yd run last night. Not great tackles, mostly an arm effort on one, but other RB's get slowed down enough by those to be taken down and he continued forward and kept pushing for more yds to finish the run off.

That run was made by a cutback and it was a good run. How many other runs did he have last night where he went down at or close to first contact? I don't recall much.

He has to break more tackles and do so more often to be a starting RB. If he did that better, I doubt Stewart would have went 13th overall.

If you look at that run, one of the defenders was engaged and got a hand to slow him down but didn't. Then, DeAngelo was getting wrapped up around the 35 and ran for an additional 10 yds. Again, not necessarily a broken tackle, but he also didn't go down right away like some RB's would have.

On the catch he made, he got caught as soon as he did it, and stiff armed the defender, then got caught from behind and still managed 10 yards.

 

[PahtyTom]

Why is Nick Goings getting work over Stewart?

For those of us who know how good Stewart is...this is a good thing. I hope he doesn't play a lick.

Don't you think they'll want him to get some in game experience before throwing him into the fire as the full-time starter? You think he shows them so much in practice that they just don't need to see anything in a game, despite how well Williams has played?

This isn't a competition...this is let's wait until Stewart is ready to take over the team's rushing duties. Williams is not in Stewart's class.

Now you're just being obtuse

...think Adrian Peterson vs. Chester Taylor.

Could it be Larry Johnson vs Priest Holmes?edited to add: I moved this to this thread because it is better suited to be here

 

[JamesTheScot]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

If you saw the 4 carries, you would see that he had nowhere to run on any of those carries. Misleading, who knows?

Not enough information to judge? Absolutely.

The same goes for the Williams splits from last year. There is not enough information to know. That's why seeing them play is so important.

Call it both ways, man. Williams can't break tackles but yet Stewart was a victim of poor blocking? How many tackles did Stewart break to average that 3/4 ypc?Come to think of it, I'm not sure how many tackles I saw Foster break last year. You don't think the blocking last year maybe had something to do with DW's effectiveness?

 

[JamesTheScot]

Are we saying D. Foster was some superior talent......that somehow he just couldn't get by that super stud that just about nobody is drafting before round 15 and on this year?

I don't mean to single out your post since it had some good points. I just wanted to go on record with my opinion as to the Williams/Foster situation.When you take a look back at it and factor in everything we've learned, I think it's safe to say that Williams blocking skills can be blamed for that one. The passing game wasn't good as it was with all the injuries never mind if there RB was missing blitz pickups and causing the QB to get rocked.

This hasn't been proven at all but I also think Williams may have been more focused on being a stud running back. Key emphasis on the word running. It wouldn't be surprising if he came out of college and for the first two years didn't really concern himself with anything else since he had such natural rushing talent. He wanted to make the big play, he wanted to be the superstar and this maybe had an affect on every other part of his game.

Cue the present, with the present being the pre-season of William's third year. Is it really that out of the question to think that it dawned on him that although he was better skill-wise to Foster, what kept him off the field were the skills he wasn't paying attention to because he didn't want to? Maybe his ego got roughed up when they took Stewart and his conscience finally decided not to suppress the truth? Maybe he just needed a kick in the ### like that, having his job which was believed to be his until the Draft, threatened?

That's the scenario I'm subscribing to at least. The real world hit Williams like a ton of bricks and he realized he had the talent to be successful, he just now needs to work his tail off. It all adds up nicely to what we're seeing now.

I'm on record as officially being a fan of JGalligan...I have been reading nothing but quality posts and this guy deserves a few props. You're a new member it seems, welcome to the Shark Pool, new members like you make this place great.

Agreed, and this is the first post I think that has been addressed to me and I appreciate a quality post addressing something I've had an opinion on. With that said, you mentioned towards the latter part of your post, " Is it really that out of the question to think that it dawned on him that although he was better skill wise to Foster, what kept him off the field were the skills he wasn't paying attention to because he didn't want to?"I'm asking you why should I believe in 8 months time that somehow he's had this revelation?

You know there's no emperical evidence that the light has come on for someone. If Williams does well, his supporters will say the light came on. If he doesn't, his detractors will say he's a talentless bum.Any "evidence" today is based upon coach speak and teammate speak. Coaches and players are commenting on how much more focused and studious he's been in this preseason. They've commented on how his blocking is improved. He's looked pretty good in preseason...but I always take that with a grain of salt so that's of marginal value.

Interviews with DW after he was drafted talked about how laid-back he was and how he was willing to take whatever role the team wanted him to fill.

Interviews this year consist of how professional he's become.

Good for him. I think he's got tremendous natural ability. But in the NFL everyone (for the most part) has tremendous ability. What separates the top players from the field are those who work harder to maximize on their talent and opportunities.

It's like anything, the top spot isn't always filled by the most talented guy. More often than not it's filled by the hardest working guy with talent. The difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning isn't ability or talent. The same could be said of Randy Moss circa 2006 and Randy Moss circa 2007.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Anyone seeing some similarity with Barber/Dayne situation in 2000?

NopeDayne wasn't built like Stew or had his speed. Good try tho

Screw college production. All I need to evaluate talent is his 40 time and a recent BMI. He's 235 pounds and runs a 4.48 forty. He can't miss. Neither can I with my patented evaluation system. Being an NFL talent scout is easy.

 

[Biabreakable]

Anyone seeing some similarity with Barber/Dayne situation in 2000?

NopeDayne wasn't built like Stew or had his speed. Good try tho

Screw college production. All I need to evaluate talent is his 40 time and a recent BMI. He's 235 pounds and runs a 4.48 forty. He can't miss. Neither can I with my patented evaluation system. Being an NFL talent scout is easy.

LOL People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about. He has been doing really well under adverse circumstances whenever given the opportunity. This is undeniable by anyone who is not walking around with a lampshade tied to their neck.The Stewart supporters are just wishful thinkers at this point. Until Stewart DOES SOMETHING at this level to compete I would not be penciling him in for anything.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Why does everyone put so much stock into the fact that it was the doctor that operated on Stewart that cleared Stewart to be drafted by Carolina?

Well, because that doctor has the gift of prophecy and could with 100% accuracy predict before the draft how Stewart's recovery would be progressing in mid-August.Geez, don't you know that doctors know everything and never make mistakes. And they never, ever let their egos come into play.The doctor said he'd be OK, put it in the bank, baby!

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact.

The statistics do not bear this out. Here are his splits from last year:Right Side 51/199 (3.9 ypc)

Left Side 21/177 (8.4 ypc)

Middle 36/201 (5.6 ypc)

Left Sideline 14/70 (5.0 ypc)

Right Sideline 22/70 (3.2 ypc)

do you know why this is misleading data?Bueller, anyone?

Because it doesnt favor Stewart?Is there anything misleading about 4 for 3?

If you saw the 4 carries, you would see that he had nowhere to run on any of those carries. Misleading, who knows?

Not enough information to judge? Absolutely.

The same goes for the Williams splits from last year. There is not enough information to know. That's why seeing them play is so important.

Call it both ways, man. Williams can't break tackles but yet Stewart was a victim of poor blocking? How many tackles did Stewart break to average that 3/4 ypc?Come to think of it, I'm not sure how many tackles I saw Foster break last year. You don't think the blocking last year maybe had something to do with DW's effectiveness?

The difference is Stewart was caught behind the line before he had a chance to break any tackles and Williams was already at the line, going forward with speed and momentum. I rarely see Williams breaking tackles at the line. Very few players break tackles when the defense tackles them behind the line, before they take a step.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[TLEF316]

I'm off the wagon....drafted him again last night in my keeper league.

 

[BassNBrew]

Something had to change and what did is up for debate. I think he just finally grew up some.

There was an article written a couple days ago on DeAngelo. Basically he said what made him "grow up" was the fact that DeShaun was gone, and he now became the veteran teaching Stewart, and in doing so it gave him a better clarity of himself. Here is a link to the article link. Here is a portion of the article:

By both necessity and choice, Williams had to grow from pupil to professor.

"When I first got here, DeShaun was here and he took the leadership role and he taught me some things. He always said, ‘Whether I'm here or not -- if I'm not here, then I'm going to give you the tools so when another guy comes in, you can teach him what I taught you.'"

"That's essentially what I tell Jonathan on the sideline when we're looking at certain things, watching the safeties, the corners, certain protections, stuff like that. He's helping me out a lot -- like you wouldn't believe."

But for Williams, everything starts with his maturation as a professional. The manner in which the third-year runner analyzes and dissects his performance links smoothly with the priority he takes upon making himself a model for Stewart to follow.

In learning how to be more valuable to his fellow first-rounder, Williams was able to find something more in himself and how he runs.

"I took a little bit of a different approach this year than the past two years as far as how I approached the field, because I still had that college mentality and the light didn't cut on as far as being a professional football player," Williams said. "During the offseason, having the chance to sit down and talk to him and discover some of the things, the concepts, and why we do this and why we do that, and how can they do this and do that -- it definitely helped me out and led to me getting Jonathan on the same page."

I see a distrubing trend here. Maybe we should find a coach to teach these backs and stop the cycle of crappy backs doing the coaching.

 

[Biabreakable]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

That is your opinion and I do not share it.

 

[ImTheScientist]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

That is your opinion and I do not share it.

Borbely is right. Biabreakable .... this link might help you ---------> Opinion

 

[Jedimaster21]

I can't speak for the first preseason game because I didn't see it, but Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact. The lack of breaking tackles is the main reason I don't see him as a starter. He has some good moves and is pretty good in the open field, as evidenced by the 23 yard run he had yesterday, but that description sounds like a change of pace/3rd down RB more than a starter.

First off, I would let you know that I respect your ability to judge talent very much. You definitely tend to be right about a player far more frequently than you are wrong. However, I would appreciate if you would watch this player a little more going forward. We seem to have a very different opinion on DeAngelo, when I usually see what you are seeing. Secondly, I think Stewart is a very talented back. In fact, he was the most talented in this draft, and feel he possibly would have been drafted before McFadden if he hadn't been dealing with an injury. He is very fast (the 4.48 he ran was with a bad toe), very powerful, athletic, a great receiver, and has a workhorse build. I see him getting over 250 carries this year if healthy. My concerns regarding DeAngelo also focus around his power, and like others have said he will never be a power back. But there are many very successful backs that decide to run around players rather than through them. At 5'9" and 217 lbs, he is stocky enough to run through arm tackles and break tackles when he needs to. He just won't be putting his head down and punishing runners like some others. That may hurt his effectiveness slightly, but he will also stay healthier due to the lack of contact. Despite this worry of mine, I have always been a huge fan of DeAngelo. He was extremely productive in college, is versatile, very elusive, patient with the ball, has good vision, is a good receiver, and has a great body type for the position. He has impressed me each time I have watched him. I am an Eagles fan, and I watched in horror his rookie year as he carved my Eagles up for almost 100 yards receiving. I think DeAngelo has matured and now he realizes that he needs to turn his weaknesses into strengths, and that realization will help him a lot in his career. Whether you are a fan of Stewart or DeAngelo (I happen to be a fan of both), you must admit that both will most likely be good and productive enough to keep the other from being a fantasy stud. I envision Stewart getting slightly under 300 carries in an ideal situation, with DeAngelo getting 50 catches and 150 carries. However, DeAngelo turned 25 in April and has 2 years left on his contract...this means that he will be 26-27 when he is entertaining offers about being a team's franchise back in 2 years. This player will get a shot to start, but unfortunately it won't be in Carolina unless Stewart has some more injury problems. Buy low on DeAngelo...he can be a decent flex until he leaves Carolina, if Stewart gets hurt he could be a #1 (and Stewart hasn't exactly been an iron man), and once he is a free agent he'll get a shot to be the focus of an offense.

 

[mdog1967]

people are kidding themselves (disclaimer: i don't own either)DeWill looked great and good for his two games this preseason, strong, good vision and good blocking in pass protectJStew ran into the back of his lineman, looked extrememly tentative on another run basically wilting before he was going to get hit, took an off tackle play outside and got destroyed, and got MMoore nearly beheadedif you follow with the usual argument "but he was playing with the 2's" ... 1) he was facing Eagle's bench vs. DeWill facing Eagles starters and 2) Goings had a big run right when he came in the game for JStew when the coaches jerked the rook out quick deciding they wanted MMoore to survivenow saying all that, i like JStew and think he'll be good when he gets healthy, i'm not downing him at all, just saying that he needs a lil time. time that DeWill has already put in.

Stewart ran into the back of his linemen because the Philly defensive line shoved them into him. He had absolutely nowhere to run on any of his plays.

i agree, it just eerily looked like a Reggie Bush lack-of-vision on one and scared meand DeWill's burst outside after doing the same thing was much more explosive and against Philly 1's, whereas JStew just kinda went down with the pileand i just hate when the rookie back gives up the sack because they get the "can't block" label and it sticks

Stewart is talented, but in terms of breaking tackles he is more of a "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" in that aspect.

That is Pure BS and not substantiated by Stewarts bruising college play, try again Irish. Really not typical for the Irish to make a statement that is pure bunk. I think your fishing.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

First off, I would let you know that I respect your ability to judge talent very much. You definitely tend to be right about a player far more frequently than you are wrong. However, I would appreciate if you would watch this player a little more going forward. We seem to have a very different opinion on DeAngelo, when I usually see what you are seeing.

I always pay special attention in situations like this where opinions are pretty much split down the middle. I have always been open minded about players, whether I like them or am not as high on them. Like everyone, sometimes I'm right (Ryan Grant), and sometimes I'm wrong (Tony Romo).Thanks for the post.

 

[switz]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

He doesn't really break tackles. I don't believe he's ineffective, but I don't see him as a #1 RB. He's better off as a COP, and not a full time guy. He just can't do everything a starting RB needs to... his pass protectyion is weak (though Stewart's is worse currently) and his running up the middle isn't very good. He's got good stats up the middle on draws, but he's not a straight ahead RB by any stretch of the imagination.He's not as good as you think, nor as bad as all the naysayers.

 

[Biabreakable]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

That is your opinion and I do not share it.

Borbely is right. Biabreakable .... this link might help you ---------> Opinion

Thats nice.He is undoubtably wrong saying that Williams does not break tackles. His being wrong about this is a FACT. And his not knowing what he is talking about in regards to DeAngelo Williams ability to break tackles and be an effective running back at the pro level is also a proven FACT because Williams has done and been both of those things.

 

[Biabreakable]

I can't speak for the first preseason game because I didn't see it, but Williams still can't run between the tackles and he still goes down too easily on first contact. The lack of breaking tackles is the main reason I don't see him as a starter. He has some good moves and is pretty good in the open field, as evidenced by the 23 yard run he had yesterday, but that description sounds like a change of pace/3rd down RB more than a starter.

First off, I would let you know that I respect your ability to judge talent very much. You definitely tend to be right about a player far more frequently than you are wrong. However, I would appreciate if you would watch this player a little more going forward. We seem to have a very different opinion on DeAngelo, when I usually see what you are seeing. Secondly, I think Stewart is a very talented back. In fact, he was the most talented in this draft, and feel he possibly would have been drafted before McFadden if he hadn't been dealing with an injury. He is very fast (the 4.48 he ran was with a bad toe), very powerful, athletic, a great receiver, and has a workhorse build. I see him getting over 250 carries this year if healthy.

My concerns regarding DeAngelo also focus around his power, and like others have said he will never be a power back. But there are many very successful backs that decide to run around players rather than through them. At 5'9" and 217 lbs, he is stocky enough to run through arm tackles and break tackles when he needs to. He just won't be putting his head down and punishing runners like some others. That may hurt his effectiveness slightly, but he will also stay healthier due to the lack of contact.

Despite this worry of mine, I have always been a huge fan of DeAngelo. He was extremely productive in college, is versatile, very elusive, patient with the ball, has good vision, is a good receiver, and has a great body type for the position. He has impressed me each time I have watched him. I am an Eagles fan, and I watched in horror his rookie year as he carved my Eagles up for almost 100 yards receiving. I think DeAngelo has matured and now he realizes that he needs to turn his weaknesses into strengths, and that realization will help him a lot in his career.

Whether you are a fan of Stewart or DeAngelo (I happen to be a fan of both), you must admit that both will most likely be good and productive enough to keep the other from being a fantasy stud. I envision Stewart getting slightly under 300 carries in an ideal situation, with DeAngelo getting 50 catches and 150 carries. However, DeAngelo turned 25 in April and has 2 years left on his contract...this means that he will be 26-27 when he is entertaining offers about being a team's franchise back in 2 years. This player will get a shot to start, but unfortunately it won't be in Carolina unless Stewart has some more injury problems. Buy low on DeAngelo...he can be a decent flex until he leaves Carolina, if Stewart gets hurt he could be a #1 (and Stewart hasn't exactly been an iron man), and once he is a free agent he'll get a shot to be the focus of an offense.

Nice post but could be?Maybe your not paying attention. He is the starting RB for the Panthers.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Is Stewart getting ANY time this week with the first team? TIA.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

People saying that DeAngelo Williams cannot break tackles and is ineffective just plain do not know what they are talking about.

Just because someone does not share your opinion doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.

It does when their opinion is totally invalid and lacking truth.

That is your opinion and I do not share it.

Borbely is right. Biabreakable .... this link might help you ---------> Opinion

Thats nice.He is undoubtably wrong saying that Williams does not break tackles. His being wrong about this is a FACT. And his not knowing what he is talking about in regards to DeAngelo Williams ability to break tackles and be an effective running back at the pro level is also a proven FACT because Williams has done and been both of those things.

Proven fact? Says who?