A Longer School Day/Year for Students (2 Viewers)

[Bull Dozier]

The consequence of having summers off is the drop in global performance of our students relative to other nations.

There has been quite a bit of research on the topic (no time to search for links right now) and it is quite clear that the biggest correlation to success in school is days in school.

I would like to see links to these studies, because the information I've seen is that the biggest indicator for success in school is the economic status of the parents.

Lengthening the school year or the school day isn't going to make poor schools start turning out successful kids all of the sudden.

I don't think shortening the summer break is going to level the playing field of the haves and the have nots, but it will raise the performance of both groups.

 

[sporthenry]

The consequence of having summers off is the drop in global performance of our students relative to other nations.

There has been quite a bit of research on the topic (no time to search for links right now) and it is quite clear that the biggest correlation to success in school is days in school.

I would like to see links to these studies, because the information I've seen is that the biggest indicator for success in school is the economic status of the parents.

Lengthening the school year or the school day isn't going to make poor schools start turning out successful kids all of the sudden.

I don't think shortening the summer break is going to level the playing field of the haves and the have nots, but it will raise the performance of both groups.

More than half of the achievement gap between lower- and higher-income youth can be explained by unequal access to summer learning opportunities. As a result, low-income youth are less likely to graduate from high school or enter college (Alexander et al, 2007)

 

[Ilov80s]

As a teacher, I voted no on length of day and yes on length of the year. I don't think making the day longer will increase learning. Kids get burned out over the course of a day, I see a big difference even at HS in performance from 1st hr to 6th hr.

 

[DSP]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

 

[pack100]

So does that mean the government will waste even more money on education?

Expect the teachers to get paid less, if anything.

Teacher contracts will be longer, so they will make more money. They won't just say "sorry, you'll be working four more weeks for the same money".

Lol. Come to Illinois. That is exactly what they would do.

 

[DiStefano]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Yes. Our kids aren't learning anything anyway, so what's the point?

 

[GroveDiesel]

So does that mean the government will waste even more money on education?

Expect the teachers to get paid less, if anything.

Teacher contracts will be longer, so they will make more money. They won't just say "sorry, you'll be working four more weeks for the same money".

At a salaried job? I'm sure they'll try.

When a job tells a salaried employee that they're going to have to work the next 4 weekends because they have a big deadline coming up, does it come with a raise?

It's a salaried position based on the number of school days, not a calendar year. They don't get paychecks during the summer and many work part time jobs over the summer to make extra money.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

 

[pack100]

The consequence of having summers off is the drop in global performance of our students relative to other nations.

There has been quite a bit of research on the topic (no time to search for links right now) and it is quite clear that the biggest correlation to success in school is days in school.

At a minimum, we need to change the way that the off-days are structured. Having an entire summer off leads to a ridiculous amount of brain drain. If you look at the research on standardized test scores taken in the spring and again in the fall after break, you can see the big drop-off that takes place in the summer, only to have to build it back up again in the fall before teaching new stuff. The charts look like a sawtooth.

And the amount of brain drain is even worse for poorer kids, leading them to fall further and further behind. More affluent kids go to camp or family vacations or other enrichment activiites. Poor kids sit at home watching their siblings while their parents go off to work.

If we simply gave two to three weeks off after each quarter, timed to align to major holidays, instead of giving the entire summer off, we would see instant improvement in kids' performance. Gone are the days where families take month-long vacations to summer resorts. There is no need for the full break. My kids are bored by July as it is.

But I don't like the idea of a longer day. Keep the days manageable, just more of them.

This could put day camps and overnight camps out of business.

 

[DSP]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over time

If people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

 

[igbomb]

The consequence of having summers off is the drop in global performance of our students relative to other nations.

There has been quite a bit of research on the topic (no time to search for links right now) and it is quite clear that the biggest correlation to success in school is days in school.

I would like to see links to these studies, because the information I've seen is that the biggest indicator for success in school is the economic status of the parents.

Lengthening the school year or the school day isn't going to make poor schools start turning out successful kids all of the sudden.

I think you're correct on an individual basis. But when comparing countries overall performance, the days in school correlation came into play.

 

[Despyzer]

With so many stakes tied into the graduation rate, I don't anticipate anyone lengthening the school year at the expense of summer vacation days. Too many students need those days to catch up on classes they have failed.

 

[igbomb]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over time

If people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

Is there a single fact in here?

 

[danielmclark]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over time

If people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

You didn't actually cite anything, you just listed a bunch of stuff you believe to be true. Stick to facts that you can cite with a link to a reputable source if you're going to claim that schools are abysmal.

 

[Despyzer]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over time

If people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

You didn't actually cite anything, you just listed a bunch of stuff you believe to be true. Stick to facts that you can cite with a link to a reputable source if you're going to claim that schools are abysmal.

Still, some of those ideas are pretty sound. The first statement is definitely not true though.

 

[Gator Shawn]

I am for shorter days but more of them.

When we lived in the burbs of Atlanta, the kids went back on August 1st, they went through the end of May. However, during the year, they got a week off in September, a week for Thanksgiving, normal 2 weeks around Christmas, a week in February, and a week around Spring Break. it was very nice to get those breaks during the year*. I know it might play hell with a parent's day care schedule, but any change to the status quo generates a need for change there.

* It lets you take guilt-free vacations during the middle of the school year when many places are in low-season.

The other thing they did was, in most places, at least here now and when I was a kid, school order went like this:

• High School kids went to school around 7:45 and got out around 2PM
• Middle School was next at around 8:30 and 3PM
• Elementary was last at around 9:40 and 4PM

This order works well because the High School kids, those who are latch-key, are home to receive their younger siblings until Mom or Dad gets home.

in Canton, GA, however, it was the opposite.

• Elementary
• Middle
• High School

They did this because although it's true that the older kids have responsibilities as care-givers to their younger siblings, it's also true that younger children are not as adversely impacted by the start time of school. Whereas older students were. So they found that High School kids performed better when school started later for them and Elementary kids were unaffected by the change.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over time

If people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

Cite?

 

[DSP]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over timeIf people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

Is there a single fact in here?

Yes. All of it

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over timeIf people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

Is there a single fact in here?

Yes. All of it

 

[DSP]

This will do nothing but make american public education even more abysmal

Please cite this "abysmalness".

Public schools have record failure and drop out rates now. Just look around and clearly youth is getting consistently less intelligent over timeIf people hate and suck at a job increasing the hours isnt going to make it better

Standardized education needs to be abolished and each student allowed to choose their own path

Those who excel in academics can continue in that direction. Those who dont should be able to start learning a trade at a young age

There are many people that will not get smarter no matter how much school they attend

You didn't actually cite anything, you just listed a bunch of stuff you believe to be true. Stick to facts that you can cite with a link to a reputable source if you're going to claim that schools are abysmal.

How do I cite common sense?

Also.....if schools are doing so well why do they need the "no child left behind" law?

Isnt it common knowledge that public schools have been consistently lowering standards to give the illusion of improvenent,

 

[Insein]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

 

[Despyzer]

Also.....if schools are doing so well why do they need the "no child left behind" law?

No Child Left Behind had nothing to do with improving schools and everything to do with politicians trying to justify their existence and hopefully get re-elected based on a perception of being pro-education.

 

[DSP]

Also.....if schools are doing so well why do they need the "no child left behind" law?

No Child Left Behind had nothing to do with improving schools and everything to do with politicians trying to justify their existence and hopefully get re-elected based on a perception of being pro-education.

As if some are anti-education?

 

[NutterButter]

They should do the current school day length and make some form of workshops required after school. We have to pay for them, but they do a lot of different workshops after school at my kids school like robotics, sea critters, aviation club, chess, etc. The kids get exposed to a lot of cool stuff outside of the standard curriculum.

 

[Ilov80s]

They should do the current school day length and make some form of workshops required after school. We have to pay for them, but they do a lot of different workshops after school at my kids school like robotics, sea critters, aviation club, chess, etc. The kids get exposed to a lot of cool stuff outside of the standard curriculum.

I totally agree that more after school opportunities from clubs to sports to homework helpers or access to technology would be more valuable than more classes.

 

[Rove!]

bad idea imo

the brain needs time to explore and expand free from the grind

 

[sporthenry]

bad idea imo

the brain needs time to explore and expand free from the grind

 

[MCguidance]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

Different animal.

How does she like it?

 

[Courtjester]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

 

[Insein]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

Different animal. How does she like it?

####### hates it. Wants to quit everyday. Plus with the home work and testing and grading it basically is a 15 hour day. She wakes up at 6. Gets to work early to do some grading and prep. At night she's still grading till 10:30 most nights and I help her do the easy stuff like multiple choice. Its just non stop. Then yoy get the ahole parents who get pissed off and send snarky emails to her when she doesn't do something like post the homework on the website. Something she does extra because the kids are so damn lazy or stupid to remember to write it down from the board or take home the paper she gave them.

So yea, she's not a fan.

 

[NutterButter]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

What's the school hours? 7 seems crazy early. That sure seems like an awful lot of homework.

 

[Insein]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

The cause of all problems in education comes back to one thing. The PSSA. That ### #### test is all I ever hear about until it is over.

From the beginning of the school year, kids are measured on how well they will do on the PSSA with MAP tests and other grading charts. They are grouped according to how they are perceived to do on these tests. They have action plans on how to teach them what will be on the test. IF a student has an off day when they take these MAP tests or just doesn't give a crap and drops 20 points from last time, it's a crisis. Suddenly they have to devise new action plans to get student A back up to where they should be. More homework, more intensive class sessions, differentiated learning to change it up for them. Teachers jobs are measured by this test. Some teachers my wife has worked with have been fired for low PSSA scores. That's extreme but bonuses are based around the scores and if you get stuck with a batch of dumb kids well then you're SOL that year. She's been at schools where teachers that have students with low scores are humiliated in front of the rest of the staff despite the history of that group of kids showing that they were on par with what they normally did coming up. She's been at schools that measured what this year's 7th grade did vs last year's 7th grade despite being two completely different groups of kids. If you went way down (despite again staying on par with what they have done), expect academic probation for that teacher.

Every project, every assignment, every bit of homework is measured on how this will help on the PSSA. And it means #### all for the kids. IF the kids ever found out that the test has no impact on their grade whatsoever, it would be pandemonium. The American Education system would collapse.

Then when it's over, teachers feel like they are just going through the motions because none of it matters towards the test. My wife has to fight the urge to modify teaching towards the test after the test because it doesn't help them on the test. Just a screwed up system because of NCLB.

 

[Henry Ford]

Long-time teacher, first-time answerer:

School day should stay the same.

School year should be longer.

How I voted, The idea of being off during the summer made sense at one point in America. Now all it does is cause remedial work in Sept. Not saying no break but it seems to me a bunch of smaller breaks makes more sense than one large 2.5 month break.

Going to kill that "summer job" or "summer internship" crowd.

 

[MCguidance]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

Different animal.How does she like it?

####### hates it. Wants to quit everyday. Plus with the home work and testing and grading it basically is a 15 hour day. She wakes up at 6. Gets to work early to do some grading and prep. At night she's still grading till 10:30 most nights and I help her do the easy stuff like multiple choice. Its just non stop. Then yoy get the ahole parents who get pissed off and send snarky emails to her when she doesn't do something like post the homework on the website. Something she does extra because the kids are so damn lazy or stupid to remember to write it down from the board or take home the paper she gave them.

So yea, she's not a fan.

But you guys are rich for her job, no?

 

[Short Corner]

The consequence of having summers off is the drop in global performance of our students relative to other nations.

There has been quite a bit of research on the topic (no time to search for links right now) and it is quite clear that the biggest correlation to success in school is days in school.

At a minimum, we need to change the way that the off-days are structured. Having an entire summer off leads to a ridiculous amount of brain drain. If you look at the research on standardized test scores taken in the spring and again in the fall after break, you can see the big drop-off that takes place in the summer, only to have to build it back up again in the fall before teaching new stuff. The charts look like a sawtooth.

And the amount of brain drain is even worse for poorer kids, leading them to fall further and further behind. More affluent kids go to camp or family vacations or other enrichment activiites. Poor kids sit at home watching their siblings while their parents go off to work.

If we simply gave two to three weeks off after each quarter, timed to align to major holidays, instead of giving the entire summer off, we would see instant improvement in kids' performance. Gone are the days where families take month-long vacations to summer resorts. There is no need for the full break. My kids are bored by July as it is.

But I don't like the idea of a longer day. Keep the days manageable, just more of them.

We have a 6 week summer break and various 1-2 weekbreaks throughout the school year (One week in the fall around Halloween, 2 weeks for xmas, 1 week at Ash Wednesday, 2 weeks at Easter, and 1 or 2 weeks at some Ascension Holiday in May) The break up works much better than the long summer break IMO because there is less burnout. The kids also go to school at 8 and are out at 11:10, 12:15, or 1:00 depending on the schedule (grades 1-4). There is no kindergarten like they have in the states so they start off a year behind but I am certain they are caught up, if not ahead of the curriculum in Math (grade 3) and almost there in language skills. The kids also started learning English this year.

They started with HW in the first grade, about 20 minutes/night and now get about an hour/night on average.

 

[Short Corner]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

The cause of all problems in education comes back to one thing. The PSSA. That ### #### test is all I ever hear about until it is over.

From the beginning of the school year, kids are measured on how well they will do on the PSSA with MAP tests and other grading charts. They are grouped according to how they are perceived to do on these tests. They have action plans on how to teach them what will be on the test. IF a student has an off day when they take these MAP tests or just doesn't give a crap and drops 20 points from last time, it's a crisis. Suddenly they have to devise new action plans to get student A back up to where they should be. More homework, more intensive class sessions, differentiated learning to change it up for them. Teachers jobs are measured by this test. Some teachers my wife has worked with have been fired for low PSSA scores. That's extreme but bonuses are based around the scores and if you get stuck with a batch of dumb kids well then you're SOL that year. She's been at schools where teachers that have students with low scores are humiliated in front of the rest of the staff despite the history of that group of kids showing that they were on par with what they normally did coming up. She's been at schools that measured what this year's 7th grade did vs last year's 7th grade despite being two completely different groups of kids. If you went way down (despite again staying on par with what they have done), expect academic probation for that teacher.

Every project, every assignment, every bit of homework is measured on how this will help on the PSSA. And it means #### all for the kids. IF the kids ever found out that the test has no impact on their grade whatsoever, it would be pandemonium. The American Education system would collapse.

Then when it's over, teachers feel like they are just going through the motions because none of it matters towards the test. My wife has to fight the urge to modify teaching towards the test after the test because it doesn't help them on the test. Just a screwed up system because of NCLB.

IIRC the teachers unions prohibited this practice.

 

[Insein]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

Different animal.How does she like it?

####### hates it. Wants to quit everyday. Plus with the home work and testing and grading it basically is a 15 hour day. She wakes up at 6. Gets to work early to do some grading and prep. At night she's still grading till 10:30 most nights and I help her do the easy stuff like multiple choice. Its just non stop. Then yoy get the ahole parents who get pissed off and send snarky emails to her when she doesn't do something like post the homework on the website. Something she does extra because the kids are so damn lazy or stupid to remember to write it down from the board or take home the paper she gave them.So yea, she's not a fan.

But you guys are rich for her job, no?

We're rolling in the $50k a year from it.

 

[Insein]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

The cause of all problems in education comes back to one thing. The PSSA. That ### #### test is all I ever hear about until it is over.

From the beginning of the school year, kids are measured on how well they will do on the PSSA with MAP tests and other grading charts. They are grouped according to how they are perceived to do on these tests. They have action plans on how to teach them what will be on the test. IF a student has an off day when they take these MAP tests or just doesn't give a crap and drops 20 points from last time, it's a crisis. Suddenly they have to devise new action plans to get student A back up to where they should be. More homework, more intensive class sessions, differentiated learning to change it up for them. Teachers jobs are measured by this test. Some teachers my wife has worked with have been fired for low PSSA scores. That's extreme but bonuses are based around the scores and if you get stuck with a batch of dumb kids well then you're SOL that year. She's been at schools where teachers that have students with low scores are humiliated in front of the rest of the staff despite the history of that group of kids showing that they were on par with what they normally did coming up. She's been at schools that measured what this year's 7th grade did vs last year's 7th grade despite being two completely different groups of kids. If you went way down (despite again staying on par with what they have done), expect academic probation for that teacher.

Every project, every assignment, every bit of homework is measured on how this will help on the PSSA. And it means #### all for the kids. IF the kids ever found out that the test has no impact on their grade whatsoever, it would be pandemonium. The American Education system would collapse.

Then when it's over, teachers feel like they are just going through the motions because none of it matters towards the test. My wife has to fight the urge to modify teaching towards the test after the test because it doesn't help them on the test. Just a screwed up system because of NCLB.

IIRC the teachers unions prohibited this practice.

There's no union in a charter school but it wasn't much different when she worked in a district.

 

[MCguidance]

My wife works in a charter school. Her school day is 7:50 to 4:10. Her school year runs from the second week of August (third week for the kids) to third week o f June.

Different animal.How does she like it?

####### hates it. Wants to quit everyday. Plus with the home work and testing and grading it basically is a 15 hour day. She wakes up at 6. Gets to work early to do some grading and prep. At night she's still grading till 10:30 most nights and I help her do the easy stuff like multiple choice. Its just non stop. Then yoy get the ahole parents who get pissed off and send snarky emails to her when she doesn't do something like post the homework on the website. Something she does extra because the kids are so damn lazy or stupid to remember to write it down from the board or take home the paper she gave them.So yea, she's not a fan.

But you guys are rich for her job, no?

We're rolling in the $50k a year from it.

The good news is that she will probably make less next year.

 

[DocHolliday]

The school day seems long enough. Kids need time to be kids and to work part-time jobs as they get older.

The school year could be extended by going a week longer into summer and by eliminating/decreasing the breaks. I would not make kids go year round.

The US should test some ways to improve education. Try extending the school year by 20 days in NJ. Eliminate some of the breaks by 50% in NY. Start the school year earlier by 20 days in PA. Of course, teacher unions would likely stop any of these changes before they ever got started. There are probably teachers that have some solid ideas.

 

[NCCommish]

Long-time teacher, first-time answerer:

School day should stay the same.

School year should be longer.

How I voted, The idea of being off during the summer made sense at one point in America. Now all it does is cause remedial work in Sept. Not saying no break but it seems to me a bunch of smaller breaks makes more sense than one large 2.5 month break.

Going to kill that "summer job" or "summer internship" crowd.

The only constant is change.

 

[Mr. Ected]

If the idea is to pass a longer school day, that is fine, but then there shouldn't be homework.

I drop my 9th grade daughter off at 7:00 am and she gets home on the bus at 4:15 pm. If she has band or drama it is 6:00 pm. And then she has anywhere from 2-4 hours of homework to do each night---a lot of which I deem is "make work" Worksheets, vocabulary assignments, read the story and answer question type work.

The cause of all problems in education comes back to one thing. The PSSA. That ### #### test is all I ever hear about until it is over.

From the beginning of the school year, kids are measured on how well they will do on the PSSA with MAP tests and other grading charts. They are grouped according to how they are perceived to do on these tests. They have action plans on how to teach them what will be on the test. IF a student has an off day when they take these MAP tests or just doesn't give a crap and drops 20 points from last time, it's a crisis. Suddenly they have to devise new action plans to get student A back up to where they should be. More homework, more intensive class sessions, differentiated learning to change it up for them. Teachers jobs are measured by this test. Some teachers my wife has worked with have been fired for low PSSA scores. That's extreme but bonuses are based around the scores and if you get stuck with a batch of dumb kids well then you're SOL that year. She's been at schools where teachers that have students with low scores are humiliated in front of the rest of the staff despite the history of that group of kids showing that they were on par with what they normally did coming up. She's been at schools that measured what this year's 7th grade did vs last year's 7th grade despite being two completely different groups of kids. If you went way down (despite again staying on par with what they have done), expect academic probation for that teacher.

Every project, every assignment, every bit of homework is measured on how this will help on the PSSA. And it means #### all for the kids. IF the kids ever found out that the test has no impact on their grade whatsoever, it would be pandemonium. The American Education system would collapse.

Then when it's over, teachers feel like they are just going through the motions because none of it matters towards the test. My wife has to fight the urge to modify teaching towards the test after the test because it doesn't help them on the test. Just a screwed up system because of NCLB.

Here in Virginia, those tests are called the Standards Of Learning. Which I guess if you don't do well, you are SOL.

 

[igbomb]

The school day seems long enough. Kids need time to be kids and to work part-time jobs as they get older.

The school year could be extended by going a week longer into summer and by eliminating/decreasing the breaks. I would not make kids go year round.

The US should test some ways to improve education. Try extending the school year by 20 days in NJ. Eliminate some of the breaks by 50% in NY. Start the school year earlier by 20 days in PA. Of course, teacher unions would likely stop any of these changes before they ever got started. There are probably teachers that have some solid ideas.

There are a lot of anecdotal examples of schools and districts in the U.S. modifying the schedule in a myriad of ways.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about one in the Bronx in one of his books, Outliers. It's a public school in a bad part of town, so they have the same type of kids as the rest of the area's miserable schools. But this school is phenomenal at performance. Of course, the way they get there is to have school all day. Kids are typically at the school for 10+ hours a day. Also, they chop up the summer and have school in July to keep the kids sharp. It works, but it's a pretty sad trade-off for the kids.

The reality for the U.S. is that if we actually care about whether we keep pace with Asian and European schools, then we need to extend the amount of time in school. We can talk about methods of delivery, engagement of parents, etc. But time in school is a lever that is relatively easy to pull and shows big correlation to school success. Now some may argue that it's okay if we underperform to other countries and it's worth it to maintain the summer break. I disagree but it's a valid position.

But if you want to keep up with the rest of the world, I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think extending the school year is a part of the solution. Keep the days short, but have more of them.

 

[B-Deep]

The school day seems long enough. Kids need time to be kids and to work part-time jobs as they get older.

The school year could be extended by going a week longer into summer and by eliminating/decreasing the breaks. I would not make kids go year round.

The US should test some ways to improve education. Try extending the school year by 20 days in NJ. Eliminate some of the breaks by 50% in NY. Start the school year earlier by 20 days in PA. Of course, teacher unions would likely stop any of these changes before they ever got started. There are probably teachers that have some solid ideas.

There are a lot of anecdotal examples of schools and districts in the U.S. modifying the schedule in a myriad of ways.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about one in the Bronx in one of his books, Outliers. It's a public school in a bad part of town, so they have the same type of kids as the rest of the area's miserable schools. But this school is phenomenal at performance. Of course, the way they get there is to have school all day. Kids are typically at the school for 10+ hours a day. Also, they chop up the summer and have school in July to keep the kids sharp. It works, but it's a pretty sad trade-off for the kids.

The reality for the U.S. is that if we actually care about whether we keep pace with Asian and European schools, then we need to extend the amount of time in school. We can talk about methods of delivery, engagement of parents, etc. But time in school is a lever that is relatively easy to pull and shows big correlation to school success. Now some may argue that it's okay if we underperform to other countries and it's worth it to maintain the summer break. I disagree but it's a valid position.

But if you want to keep up with the rest of the world, I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think extending the school year is a part of the solution. Keep the days short, but have more of them.

form my conversations with Asians this was not the difference that stood out

it was not time spent in school, it was dedication to school, from parents that passed to the children that seemed key to me. Granted, this has not been a large sample size, but the emphasis was on the parents who demanded good grades. If a C came home the answer was not let it slide, or demand that the teacher give bobby a better grade, it was to make the child work harder and study more.

i don't agree that more school = better school, better school is what makes education better, and better home emphasis. I think much of the education differences are cultural differences with priorities more than an indictment of the amount of time our kids spend in school.

 

[B-Deep]

also anecdotal, but my kid is learning WAY more than I did at his age, it amazes me,

 

[Foosball God]

The school year doesn't need to be longer, they just need to space out the time off instead of doing it in one massive lump.

 

[Foosball God]

Also, we need to decrease class sizes and increase the amount of teachers. There shouldn't be more than 15 kids in a class.

 

[Scoresman]

I think I learned more over the summer, dicking around with friends around the neighborhood than I ever did in a classroom.

I remember the month long review of stuff from the previous year. It was nice because it was so easy.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

i don't agree that more school = better school, better school is what makes education better, and better home emphasis. I think much of the education differences are cultural differences with priorities more than an indictment of the amount of time our kids spend in school.

The longer school year (or day) is supposed to make up for the educational experiences that many kids are not receiving at home. It's easier to provide more schooling than to change the broader social and cultural changes that have resulted in some kids falling behind.

 

[B-Deep]

i don't agree that more school = better school, better school is what makes education better, and better home emphasis. I think much of the education differences are cultural differences with priorities more than an indictment of the amount of time our kids spend in school.

The longer school year (or day) is supposed to make up for the educational experiences that many kids are not receiving at home. It's easier to provide more schooling than to change the broader social and cultural changes that have resulted in some kids falling behind.

i don't think that works though, i think more of the same thing just produces more of the same thing