A Parenting Conundrum (1 Viewer)

[BowieMercs]

Tell the missus she's wrong,  has 2 strikes already, record her reaction & post it here.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I believe in a blend.  Address the current issue.  However, if it is repetitive and has already been punished before, the punishment should increase each time it is the same infraction.  My opinion is that if they are consistently breaking the same rule then the previous punishment didn't create enough of a set of guardrails to diminish the desire for the behavior.  Raise the bar until they realize they simply can't do it anymore.

Having a kid with ADHD/Aspergers has taught me to be understanding and lenient, but also consistent and firm.  There may also be a point with a particular behavior where you have been raising the punishment bar higher and higher without a change in behavior.  Then you may need to pull back and reevaluate if there is some other underlying cause/behavior that is not allowing them to properly decide about this issue and address that greater concern.  Hope that makes sense.  

This. 

 

[saintfool]

i  kind of think of behavior modification as a coaching. i know that i'm going to have to say the same things over and over in addition to demonstrating it. i lose patience when he seems to grasp what i am saying - "brush your teeth but don't swallow the toothpaste" - but backslides somehow (like swallowing the toothpaste). If I feel like he's not paying attention, ignoring me or whatever then I will call him out for not listening. If he ignores that then the situation has changed and I'll let him know that I'm serious. Usually that takes the form of tone of my voice changing. It's *never* volume. The tone conveys enough and it gets his attention.

 

[Insein]

Handing over the school glue? That's a paddlin.

Kicking daddy's headrest? That's a paddlin.

 

[cstu]

Here are a couple over the weekend....

Drive up: "Ok, daughter and son- what do you want?" daughter "corndog". "Ok, son, do you want a corndog?" "no." "Ok, son, you can get a corndog, chicken nuggets or grilled cheese. What do you want?"................... silence.............. I go over choices again and he says "no". So, I order nuggets (his normal favorite). Get home and he has a meltdown because he now wants a corndog.

Another, last night. He follows me into the room (which he was not suppose to be in because I had recently did a preventative spraying for lice on the bed after our daughter got some from school). I ask him to leave. He says no. I was wrapping up and heading out myself so I didn't push back, just finished what I was doing and headed to the door- with a ton of other stuff I have to do for making sure everything is washed or sprayed etc. I am going to leave and he is still standing there. "come on bud"... "no". "Ok, you have a choice. You can come with me or I am going to close the door because I am leaving." So.... I left and closed the door. He immediately cried and I open the door. He slowly goes out and immediately goes to my wife to report that Daddy closed the door on him.  

First one - next time tell him he gets nothing if he doesn't answer - and follow through.

Second - you gave him a choice and he chose, he'll learn.  Also, you didn't close the door him - he chose to have the door closed on him.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Is this thread really about Draymond Green?

 

[Rustoleum]

Here are a couple over the weekend....

Drive up: "Ok, daughter and son- what do you want?" daughter "corndog". "Ok, son, do you want a corndog?" "no." "Ok, son, you can get a corndog, chicken nuggets or grilled cheese. What do you want?"................... silence.............. I go over choices again and he says "no". So, I order nuggets (his normal favorite). Get home and he has a meltdown because he now wants a corndog.

Another, last night. He follows me into the room (which he was not suppose to be in because I had recently did a preventative spraying for lice on the bed after our daughter got some from school). I ask him to leave. He says no. I was wrapping up and heading out myself so I didn't push back, just finished what I was doing and headed to the door- with a ton of other stuff I have to do for making sure everything is washed or sprayed etc. I am going to leave and he is still standing there. "come on bud"... "no". "Ok, you have a choice. You can come with me or I am going to close the door because I am leaving." So.... I left and closed the door. He immediately cried and I open the door. He slowly goes out and immediately goes to my wife to report that Daddy closed the door on him.  

If I were in that position, I would have told the kid that he could not be in that room becaus of the spray, and then if he did not move to comply, I would have physically deposited him in the hallway. If the parent says it's a safety/health issue, that trumps all, immediately. Hopefully your wife doesn't indulge the tattling.

The drive-thru is tough. The meltdown was coming either way, so save the $2, order him nothing (which is exactly what he chose), and when the volcano erupts, try to stay calm and remind him that his choices caused the situation and to remember that the next time. Seriously though, when  kids lock up like that when confronted with a choice, it's horrible. Good luck.

At least there's a good chance one of the other two will take care of you when you are old and feeble.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

variable-ratio reinforcement schedule clearly number 1.  thank you, behaviorism.

 

[mr roboto]

My 8 year old has an incredibly annoying habit of repeating things/talking to herself/singing the same line over and over and over. There's nothing 'wrong' with it but we've asked her to stop and she's agreed to try to stop. At this point a reminder (honey please stop repeating) is more than enough. But this is after consistent correction (again, not punishment but every time she starts repeating we ask her to stop). This is kinda like kicking the seat or forgetting to put dishes in the sink or forgetting to close the car door etc - just kid stuff. If you want to curtail little mindless behaviors you need to be completely consistent to remind them till its ingrained. 

Escalating punishment should be reserved for willful disobedience. From a very young age they shouldn't think they can wear you down or get you to tap out if they simply outlast you. 

 

[mr roboto]

But by FAR the most effective thing we have done is correcting little mistakes early and often. I can't tell you how often I see kids out in public or if I'm at someone else's house who are completely ignored by their parents till something catastrophic happens. Then SHTF and the parent loses it. 

I was at my buddies house. He's a very passive dad (by the way huge predictor of poorly behaved kids in my experience). Kid is waving his fork around at dinner. Dad says nothing, kid starts playing swords with his brother and his fork. Again nothing said. Then a cup is tipped over, milk everywhere. Dad flips out on both kids and sends them to their rooms without finishing dinner. 

Constant correction (stop waving your fork please) would have prevented a more harsh punishment and saved the dinner for the kids. But that takes work and most parents are ####### lazy. 

 

[Chadstroma]

If I were in that position, I would have told the kid that he could not be in that room becaus of the spray, and then if he did not move to comply, I would have physically deposited him in the hallway. If the parent says it's a safety/health issue, that trumps all, immediately. Hopefully your wife doesn't indulge the tattling.

The drive-thru is tough. The meltdown was coming either way, so save the $2, order him nothing (which is exactly what he chose), and when the volcano erupts, try to stay calm and remind him that his choices caused the situation and to remember that the next time. Seriously though, when  kids lock up like that when confronted with a choice, it's horrible. Good luck.

At least there's a good chance one of the other two will take care of you when you are old and feeble.

The wife backed me up cause she heard the whole exchange.

He is an extremely loving little guy. Just stubborn as all get out plus thr terrible two thing just makes it hell right now.

 

[mr. furley]

Is this thread really about Draymond Green?

honestly don't remember at this point

 

[Bull Dozier]

But by FAR the most effective thing we have done is correcting little mistakes early and often. I can't tell you how often I see kids out in public or if I'm at someone else's house who are completely ignored by their parents till something catastrophic happens. Then SHTF and the parent loses it. 

I was at my buddies house. He's a very passive dad (by the way huge predictor of poorly behaved kids in my experience). Kid is waving his fork around at dinner. Dad says nothing, kid starts playing swords with his brother and his fork. Again nothing said. Then a cup is tipped over, milk everywhere. Dad flips out on both kids and sends them to their rooms without finishing dinner. 

Constant correction (stop waving your fork please) would have prevented a more harsh punishment and saved the dinner for the kids. But that takes work and most parents are ####### lazy. 

I tend to agree with this.  My brother, and another friend are both passive.  Their kids rule the roost for the most part (my friend has four and the oldest is crazy, though he is fortunately maturing).  He's so passive he doesn't even flip out when the milk is spilled.  He'd get up and walk away before he flipped out.

My brother tries to reason with his stronger willed child.  Everything has to be explained and agreed to.  Everything is a negotiation.  Sometimes the grown up just has to make a decision and the kid has to know to follow that decision.  That's done over time, but needs to be done.

I feel lucky that none of my kids had stronger wills than I do.

 

[mr. furley]

 He's so passive he doesn't even flip out when the milk is spilled.  

do you feel it's appropriate to "flip out" when your kid(s) spill a cup of milk?

 

[mr roboto]

do you feel it's appropriate to "flip out" when your kid(s) spill a cup of milk?

 I just want to clarify that when I say passive I don't mean call him or quiet. I mean dads who don't take an active role in parenting or disciplining and are seemingly incapable of correcting their own children in group settings or at home. 

 In my example, it was just as much the dad's fault for not seeing that the kids were obviously going to make a mess by the way they were playing at the table.  If a kid completely accidentally spilled milk of course flipping out is inappropriate.  If the kid, in full view of the parents, is acting aggressive or hyper or in some other manner that will obviously cause an accident, then at that point I think it's inappropriate to flip out on the kid too.   If it's a kid that's been told to stop waving his fork around three times and still does it and spills the milk, honestly at that point he deserves to be yelled that and probably placed in his room or away from the table in some sort of consequence. 

 

[mr. furley]

also, not terribly surprising i guess since this is the internet.. but maybe it's how people really are and i'm just not paying attention but it seems the sentiment is "if you aren't berating your kids for everything they do then you're a #####".  as though parenting is a show of who's tougher.

i mean, kudos for you guys and gals who are tougher than 3 year olds. you've really shown them. 

parenting isn't black/white stuff. at least i don't think so. pretty interesting to see the voting be so lopsided but a lot of comments saying the opposite.

 

[mr roboto]

 But to me, the larger question isn't "when my kid does X what should I do?"   It seems that your wife wants the same reaction a consequence to the same behavior regardless of immediate context or longer-term behavioral context. That doesn't make sense to me simply because the same action could in one instance be a total mistake or function of forgetfulness while in another action could be a willful disregard for the rules.  My only point was so much of "discipline" with children is proactive minor corrections and, especially when they are young, warning them of consequences to their actions before they get to the point where consequences are needed.

 

[mr. furley]

 I just want to clarify that when I say passive I don't mean call him or quiet. I mean dads who don't take an active role in parenting or disciplining and are seemingly incapable of correcting their own children in group settings or at home. 

 In my example, it was just as much the dad's fault for not seeing that the kids were obviously going to make a mess by the way they were playing at the table.  If a kid completely accidentally spilled milk of course flipping out is inappropriate.  If the kid, in full view of the parents, is acting aggressive or hyper or in some other manner that will obviously cause an accident, then at that point I think it's inappropriate to flip out on the kid too.   If it's a kid that's been told to stop waving his fork around three times and still does it and spills the milk, honestly at that point he deserves to be yelled that and probably placed in his room or away from the table in some sort of consequence. 

nuance, i guess.

coached my 5 year old's soccer team last night. it's incredibly easy to pick out the kids who have "passive" parents and the ones with "strict" parents.

the "passively parented" kids are having fun. they're actively making decision on their own. they interact with me and the other coach.  

the "strictly parented" kids look down at the ground. they look terrified when addressed. they won't talk to the coaches. they won't chase, kick or otherwise interact with the game until mom/dad screams at them from the sideline.. then they get to the ball, look to the sideline at mom/dad waving their arms telling them what to do.. because they are conditioned to getting yelled at for EVERYTHING.

this is my 3rd year doing it. 4 and 5 year olds. i'm a "rah-rah, you guys are great" coach. high fives and juice boxes for everyone. the kids who start scared, who won't smile, who won't make eye contact are totally different by year's end.. at least with me.  instead of me berating them for not kicking the ball the right direction, at the right time, with the right intent like ANGRYDAD is doing.. i'm encouraging them for the effort.  you can tell that soccer is the only time some of those kids hear a nice word from an adult in their world. it's freaking depressing.

 

[MrPoo]

The kid sounds like a real jerk. SMH

 

[Bull Dozier]

do you feel it's appropriate to "flip out" when your kid(s) spill a cup of milk?

Fair point.  I guess what I was trying to say that when one of his kids is goofing around and not following directions, he's never brought to action.  I was not arguing that flipping out over an immaterial result was warranted, just that active parenting is required.

 

[mr roboto]

nuance, i guess.

coached my 5 year old's soccer team last night. it's incredibly easy to pick out the kids who have "passive" parents and the ones with "strict" parents.

the "passively parented" kids are having fun. they're actively making decision on their own. they interact with me and the other coach.  

the "strictly parented" kids look down at the ground. they look terrified when addressed. they won't talk to the coaches. they won't chase, kick or otherwise interact with the game until mom/dad screams at them from the sideline.. then they get to the ball, look to the sideline at mom/dad waving their arms telling them what to do.. because they are conditioned to getting yelled at for EVERYTHING.

this is my 3rd year doing it. 4 and 5 year olds. i'm a "rah-rah, you guys are great" coach. high fives and juice boxes for everyone. the kids who start scared, who won't smile, who won't make eye contact are totally different by year's end.. at least with me.  instead of me berating them for not kicking the ball the right direction, at the right time, with the right intent like ANGRYDAD is doing.. i'm encouraging them for the effort.  you can tell that soccer is the only time some of those kids hear a nice word from an adult in their world. it's freaking depressing.

Obviously there are only 2 types of parents then...

We are a bit stricter than average. We focus on good behavior, correct often in a proactive way and aren't afraid to discipline. Yet our kids play carefree, are creative, independent thinkers and funny. 

Appropriate expectations are crucial IMO. Especially in public/group settings. Soccer isn't exactly a real life situation - it's a game.