A question about college majors (1 Viewer)

[mr roboto]

I've gotta applaud NR for his perspective here (even though good points are being made to the contrary). Too many parents allow their kids to be unguided in college. It's thought of as an extended period of adolescence.

It's true that a smart kid with a great college gpa can get an entry level job outta college in a variety of fields. The most successful guy I know my age (32 years old) was a philosophy and comparative religion major. Really smart and has a highly engaging personality. He got a job as an entry level banker, got his investment licenses and is now with a major chain as a private banker to clients with 2mil+ in accounts. Makes upwards of 250k/year most years. He had no formal finance training.

Having said all that, if a kid by their 3rd year of school doesn't have a clear goal regarding their first career step that's a troubling sign. Instead of focusing on 'major' find out if she has specific jobs that she thinks would be interesting. Help her do internships or get part time jobs in those arenas. If she happens to click with a particular job them back into asking what major is the best.

It's true that there are many fields that are solid directly out of college that have defined skill sets and majors (engineering, IT, nursing etc) but if she's not into math and science she may not be interested. Or she may be focusing too much on the major and coursework and not enough on the job itself.

 

[mr roboto]

Have you already told her that you will be footing the bill?

she knows she has a 529 plan if that is what you mean.

Yes. I was going to go the route of her understanding the cost of college, responsibility, etc. But there are obvious other was to teach that. I think the route of your concern has a lot of merit....you want to make sure that your daughter will have the financial means to "make it" in today's society with the likely comforts that you have. And it's difficult to see that with her current interests. I'm going to play armchair QB here from the limited information I have. I could be right, I could be wrong....but let me just ramble for a bit.

You're approaching this "solution" like an engineer would, which is how you're wired. It appears to me that she's not wired this way, but that's ok. You said it yourself, she's one of the smartest people in her class....let's say she decides to major in creative writing...at some point, she's going to have a realization about what she wants out of life. Maybe her creative writing degree will be enough for that....or maybe it won't. If she's creative, than there are many other routes...sales, entrepreneurship, etc.

I do a decent amount of college recruiting (for an engineering company) and read a lot bout the younger generation. They're entrepreneurs in the truest sense of the word. They find creative solutions to problems and exploit them.

You're a very bright guy (I value alot of what you've posted wrt retirement and finances)...I'm sure the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I would express your concern to her, but don't push her in any way...I'm sure she'll be fine

--------------

Now I type all that b/c I have a similar personality as you and would be expressing all of the similar concerns...so I know how hard it could be to "let go" in that sense, especially when you have modeled your entire life to make sure that you and your family are taken care of financially.

Best of luck

Great perspective here. Another possible disconnect is the 'major is the same as career' linear thinking. Engineering degree, engineering career. Nursing degree, nurse. Computer science degree, computer programmer. Let's take creative writing. She's a good writer. She gets great grades. She improved her writing. But there aren't a lot of 'creative writing' jobs. But you know who does need good clear writing? Every business. Copywriting, editing and reviewing manuals, sales and branding. Literally every company has a need for a good communicator who can produce clear thought.

The nice part about the general lib arts skills is that you aren't locking yourself into one industry. Salespeople can sell anything - they can work in and learn a wide variety of industries. Marketing, same thing. Creative design.

 

[njherdfan]

She's still young; do you really need to "point" her into anything? A lot of kids do best finding their own way in college- even if it means picking a major late.

I just can't get past the thought that with college likely to run in the $240k range depending on merit scholarships she gets, that it is irresponsible to not have a decent game plan going in.

If the education cost say $50k, then I guess I could see letting them find their way as they go but I struggle with the balance especially as we see all our immediate family's kids have very solid game plans that will see them getting careers that will justify the cost of college.

Where are you getting your figures?

from the colleges we have visited so far (Babson, Brown, BU, Bentley and WPI)

Just out of curiosity, if she doesn't want to be an engineer, why would you visit WPI?

See this post as I tried to explain it here. We are not visiting colleges based on majors since she has no major in mind yet. We are visiting schools so that she can see style of school

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=722874&p=17584712

Ah, okay. I went to Clark so I knew a good amount people at WPI, and they all had no doubts that they wanted to be engineers, which is why I was curious. As a recent graduate of a liberal arts school with a double major in English and American History, I can give the following thoughts on going to a liberal arts school.

1. A lot of my friends who went to school with me have awesome jobs that have no connection to their majors. One of my friends majored in art history and ancient civilization, and she now helps to manage the NFL Network's studio. Another friend majored in History and is now a U.S. Marshall.

2. Although a lot of people who major in liberal arts get fulfilling jobs after college, a lot of that depends on the type of person they are. The friends I mentioned above are really extroverted and tend to do well in office-type settings. I knew other kids who were convinced that their English major was going to be enough to propel them to a career as a publisher/editor/writer, and when that didn't pan out, they didn't take any sort of initiative to learn anything about a new career, and they're now doing jobs they hate and not making very much money.

3. A lot of liberal arts majors will end up in law school, so just be aware that that is a possibility.

4. The biggest piece of advice that I'd give to an aspiring liberal arts major is to be focused on a potential career while in college; from my experience, liberal arts majors seem to view thinking about future careers as an inconvenience, so a lot of them are left at the end of college with no idea how to get a job that they like. Make sure to network, go to the career center, get internships, etc.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Thanks for all the useful advice everyone. It is very much appreciated!

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I see now that things eventually got around to grad school. If she's a liberal arts major she might just have to do that after a few years out of undergrad, but IMO everyone eventually ends up where they're supposed to be if they're willing to work at it.

Your "guidance" could also be of the economic variety -- i.e. "we hope you'll think hard about dropping $240k on a major that doesn't have a likelihood of immediate payback."

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

 

[NewlyRetired]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

 

[glock]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

There is in fact something to be said for "Do What You Love and The Money Will Follow." My son the music therapist most likely won't be raking in the coin while he is paying back his loans. Or ever. But he doesn't want for much because he doesn't want much. And people are drawn to him because of his selflessness. There are people like that out there.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I don't think your view is outrageous at all, as long as you can keep your mind open to other possibilities. My parents were completely hands off and I had absolutely no plan at all. I graduated without any real idea about what I was going to do next. I would've probably been better off thinking about these things more back then.

 

[NewlyRetired]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Guiding her is fine, but ultimately she has to determine her own path in life. People who end up in good careers they aren't interested in, are less happy than those in ok careers where they like the work.

 

[glock]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

I find this 529 Plan thing interesting. We didn't/don't make enough to put away money for college. Both of the boys who went to college (1 to go) received scholarship/grant money and we had to borrow for the EFC and more. As I said earlier #1 son came away owing very little- Babson even picking up the EFC tab- yet is in the position where he could have paid off loans no problem. #2 son- a very good, but not excellent student- received much less in the way of money going to Susquehanna U. And he is the one who will have more of a struggle financially going forward.

But had we been able to sock away some money- and we would have had to seriously shortchange them with regards to where they live and the great high school they attended to do that- both would have lost that scholarship money/aid.

The middle class dilemma...

 

[D_House]

Is attending a school in the UMass system a possibility? Or going the 2+2 CC->4 year school route?

College doesn't have to neccesarily be a $240k investment, and maybe if it was closer to $120k it'd be less stress-inducing (for you and her) and more amenable to exploration.

 

[NewlyRetired]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

I find this 529 Plan thing interesting. We didn't/don't make enough to put away money for college. Both of the boys who went to college (1 to go) received scholarship/grant money and we had to borrow for the EFC and more. As I said earlier #1 son came away owing very little- Babson even picking up the EFC tab- yet is in the position where he could have paid off loans no problem. #2 son- a very good, but not excellent student- received much less in the way of money going to Susquehanna U. And he is the one who will have more of a struggle financially going forward.

But had we been able to sock away some money- and we would have had to seriously shortchange them with regards to where they live and the great high school they attended to do that- both would have lost that scholarship money/aid.

The middle class dilemma...

I hear ya. Having only one kid like we do simplifies things financially.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Is attending a school in the UMass system a possibility? Or going the 2+2 CC->4 year school route?

College doesn't have to neccesarily be a $240k investment, and maybe if it was closer to $120k it'd be less stress-inducing (for you and her) and more amenable to exploration.

It certainly would be a possibility. And if she is unsure on a major, choosing a school with plenty of options would benefit her.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

See this post as I tried to explain it here. We are not visiting colleges based on majors since she has no major in mind yet. We are visiting schools so that she can see style of school

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=722874&p=17584712

I like this approach a lot, and we're planning to do the same thing with our kids. Our oldest is a HS sophomore. He doesn't want to go to a SLAC, but we're visiting one anyway just so he's seen one. Likewise with a few nearby Big Ten schools and some upper-tier universities. Right now, he's making stupid decisions based on geography (Florida! Arizona!) and sports teams, not academics. Kind of what you'd expect from a sophomore, but he's done well in HS andcould get into most colleges outside the most elite. I don't blame him -- he just doesn't know any better yet.

 

[Jayded]

Why not suggest a business discipline? Having a foundation in any of them (though unlikely accounting based on your first post) would give her a good edge to navigate any formal career out there. If she really decides to be in journalism, she can shift focus there while still in school, but graduating with a business major doesn't pigeonhole her into any one career field.

I'd have driven you nuts if I were your kid as I had no clue what I wanted to be. That's why I got a business degree and decided I'd do my masters/PhD later if I found it necessary for my chosen field. I'm glad I did what I did as my career has evolved over time in various sectors and functions within business and I can still draw back on doing well in school and having a broad enough major to open most doors I'm trying to get into that aren't overly technically vested in majoring in the subject.

 

[NewlyRetired]

See this post as I tried to explain it here. We are not visiting colleges based on majors since she has no major in mind yet. We are visiting schools so that she can see style of school

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=722874&p=17584712

I like this approach a lot, and we're planning to do the same thing with our kids. Our oldest is a HS sophomore. He doesn't want to go to a SLAC, but we're visiting one anyway just so he's seen one. Likewise with a few nearby Big Ten schools and some upper-tier universities. Right now, he's making stupid decisions based on geography (Florida! Arizona!) and sports teams, not academics. Kind of what you'd expect from a sophomore, but he's done well in HS andcould get into most colleges outside the most elite. I don't blame him -- he just doesn't know any better yet.

My daughter is same age as your oldest.

We usually pick 2 or 3 different schools in the summer and go visit them in a low key no stress environment. I am more concerned right now with her learning about class sizes, teaching environments, seeing the dorm rooms, libraries and eating areas, city/suburb differences, things like that so that they are all second nature to her and don't seem so different or surprising when she really needs to think about where she wants to go later on.

 

[mr roboto]

Why not suggest a business discipline? Having a foundation in any of them (though unlikely accounting based on your first post) would give her a good edge to navigate any formal career out there. If she really decides to be in journalism, she can shift focus there while still in school, but graduating with a business major doesn't pigeonhole her into any one career field.

I'd have driven you nuts if I were your kid as I had no clue what I wanted to be. That's why I got a business degree and decided I'd do my masters/PhD later if I found it necessary for my chosen field. I'm glad I did what I did as my career has evolved over time in various sectors and functions within business and I can still draw back on doing well in school and having a broad enough major to open most doors I'm trying to get into that aren't overly technically vested in majoring in the subject.

This is well put.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If your daughter is a sophomore, I don't think I would sweat any of this. I've always been uber-serious about planning for the future, even in high school, and I didn't start to settle on a college until I was a junior. And even that made me an outlier among my peers. Your daughter is very likely to mature a lot over the next year or two and may completely change her college trajectory by then. And of course that's why it's good that you're exposing her to a variety of schools now.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Something that may help open some perspective when choosing colleges is to have her (or you do with her) reach out to the career services group (the people that arrange all of the on campus interviews) and see how the employers break down per major. That could shed some light on the types of jobs out there (and potential locaiton) at a particular school.

 

[El Floppo]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

how this is defined varies widely.

what she loves to do? what will pay her the most? combo, obviously the best... unless the former trumps (and is in a non/low paying job). sounds like the latter is most important for you.

what kinds of things does she like doing now? has she expressed any interest or commented on what she'd like to do "when she grows up"?

and no- everything you're saying makes sense, but may make sense in a different path than your daughter might take.

I don't really "know" you, gb- but what I do know and what I'm hearing about your daughter... I personally have zero concern for her future, financially, emotionally or otherwise.

but I still think the FIFA executive route should still be on the table.

 

[NewlyRetired]

but I still think the FIFA executive route should still be on the table.

At least she would rich. A crook, but rich

 

[bigbottom]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

The beauty of paying for your child's education (rather than her taking on crushing debt) is that it should give her more freedom in pursuing her educational, and ultimately career, goals. I can see how it's tough not to see ROI as one of the primary factors, but you and your daughter are blessed with the opportunity to put happiness high on the list (if not highest). And, yes, happiness in your career aspirations includes to some degree the ability to support yourself. But it's a whole lot easier to find the career that will allow you to do that AND that you find rewarding when you aren't faced with six figure debt. And if the $240k you're paying for her to go to an elite school will help increase her chances of finding success in that career (be it teaching, writing or whatever), I say you've done the right thing. Just my two cents.For what it's worth, my wife largely disagrees with me on this subject as ROI is absolutely first and foremost in her mind. I'm working on her.

 

[The Duff Man]

In some parts of Europe, the majority of kids take a year off to travel, work odd jobs, try to start a business, or just in general get a sense of what they like and who they are.

I will be encouraging my daughters to do this. Hoping they want to start their own business and forget about going to college just because everyone else thinks that is the path to success.

 

[eoMMan]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

The beauty of paying for your child's education (rather than her taking on crushing debt) is that it should give her more freedom in pursuing her educational, and ultimately career, goals. I can see how it's tough not to see ROI as one of the primary factors, but you and your daughter are blessed with the opportunity to put happiness high on the list (if not highest). And, yes, happiness in your career aspirations includes to some degree the ability to support yourself. But it's a whole lot easier to find the career that will allow you to do that AND that you find rewarding when you aren't faced with six figure debt. And if the $240k you're paying for her to go to an elite school will help increase her chances of finding success in that career (be it teaching, writing or whatever), I say you've done the right thing. Just my two cents.For what it's worth, my wife largely disagrees with me on this subject as ROI is absolutely first and foremost in her mind. I'm working on her.

I think the opposite is true. From my own personal experiences with people in college, those that had to work while in school along with taking on a little debt seemed to have more drive and ultimately were more successful after school. I've seen kids with free rides just flake out and not care while others, like my current wife and I, were busting out ### working jobs while taking classes full time. Granted, this is a small sample size but I can see how it's very easy to piss away money on college and go about it too nonchalantly when you have no skin in the game (skin meaning you are paying for it in some way).

OP, will you be requiring her to maintain a certain GPA?

 

[bigbottom]

NewlyRetired, do you think your personal views on employment are coloring your thought process here? I have never met anybody before you that was so single-mindedly driven to retire as early as possible. I could see how someone with your perspective might obsess over having your kid hit the ground running with a well-paying job as early as possible.

If my kid decided to backpack across Europe for a year, I would think that was pretty cool and I'd be inclined to support it. I imagine you find that prospect horrifying?

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

But she isn't spending $240K investing in herself. Daddy is. No small difference there.

I still look at it as an investment in her future. No different than what my parents did for me.

I keep telling her to get daddy a big scholarship so I can buy and RV and name it 529 Plan

The beauty of paying for your child's education (rather than her taking on crushing debt) is that it should give her more freedom in pursuing her educational, and ultimately career, goals. I can see how it's tough not to see ROI as one of the primary factors, but you and your daughter are blessed with the opportunity to put happiness high on the list (if not highest). And, yes, happiness in your career aspirations includes to some degree the ability to support yourself. But it's a whole lot easier to find the career that will allow you to do that AND that you find rewarding when you aren't faced with six figure debt. And if the $240k you're paying for her to go to an elite school will help increase her chances of finding success in that career (be it teaching, writing or whatever), I say you've done the right thing. Just my two cents.For what it's worth, my wife largely disagrees with me on this subject as ROI is absolutely first and foremost in her mind. I'm working on her.

I think the opposite is true. From my own personal experiences with people in college, those that had to work while in school along with taking on a little debt seemed to have more drive and ultimately were more successful after school. I've seen kids with free rides just flake out and not care while others, like my current wife and I, were busting out ### working jobs while taking classes full time. Granted, this is a small sample size but I can see how it's very easy to piss away money on college and go about it too nonchalantly when you have no skin in the game (skin meaning you are paying for it in some way).

OP, will you be requiring her to maintain a certain GPA?

That makes sense. But his daughter is killing it while getting a free ride in a private school now. Doesn't sound like the flaking out type.

 

[dparker713]

Guiding her is fine, but ultimately she has to determine her own path in life. People who end up in good careers they aren't interested in, are less happy than those in ok careers where they like the work.

Only if they make sufficient money. Being rich isn't the key to happiness. But being poor is certainly a hindrance to happiness.

 

[NewlyRetired]

OP, will you be requiring her to maintain a certain GPA?

No.

My daughter needs no incentive to get good grades. It is her whole idenity in school (the tiny smart girl)

Hell, I would pay her to stop studying and find an activity

 

[NewlyRetired]

But his daughter is killing it while getting a free ride in a private school now. Doesn't sound like the flaking out type.

She is not in a private school, just a normal public high school.

 

[bigbottom]

But his daughter is killing it while getting a free ride in a private school now. Doesn't sound like the flaking out type.

She is not in a private school, just a normal public high school.

Even better. First or second in a class of several hundred. Again, doesn't sound like the flaking out type. In any event, while I appreciate the correction/clarification, do you have thoughts about the substance of my post? My wife and I are tackling the same issue with our only child. She is playing the role of NewlyRetired. Doesn't want to pay a bunch of money for a degree with what she considers less than lucrative career prospects.

 

[NewlyRetired]

But his daughter is killing it while getting a free ride in a private school now. Doesn't sound like the flaking out type.

She is not in a private school, just a normal public high school.

Even better. First or second in a class of several hundred. Again, doesn't sound like the flaking out type. In any event, while I appreciate the correction/clarification, do you have thoughts about the substance of my post? My wife and I are tackling the same issue with our only child. She is playing the role of NewlyRetired.

I obviously identify with your wifes feelings but my wife would probably agree more with you.

Honestly I never really considered the loan aspect. Neither my wife or I had any loans and we always just assumed she would not have any if we could help it.

But you do raise an interesting point. I think people have incorrectly assumed I want her to get a high paying job. I would be more than happy that if she gets a job that she loves and is enough to pay the bills. I never has a job that I loved (or even close) and if she found that I would be estactic.

One of the reasons I started the thread was to try and figure out what careers match her interests since I am kind of ignorant of non technical based jobs but it kind of went off track but that is ok because a lot of opinions and advice have been helpful and appreciated.

 

[bigbottom]

One of the reasons I started the thread was to try and figure out what careers match her interests since I am kind of ignorant of non technical based jobs but it kind of went off track but that is ok because a lot of opinions and advice have been helpful and appreciated.

http://www.writingforward.com/creative-writing/20-creative-writing-careers

http://www.amazon.com/Careers-Writers-Others-Have-Words/product-reviews/007140600X/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

By the way, I have a musician friend who writes for a living. He writes marketing copy for luxury automobiles. Yes, that's a thing.

 

[NewlyRetired]

One of the reasons I started the thread was to try and figure out what careers match her interests since I am kind of ignorant of non technical based jobs but it kind of went off track but that is ok because a lot of opinions and advice have been helpful and appreciated.

http://www.writingforward.com/creative-writing/20-creative-writing-careershttp://www.amazon.com/Careers-Writers-Others-Have-Words/product-reviews/007140600X/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

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[Instinctive]

I'm a recent grad and when I am asked to speak to high school students I always say the same thing. Double major/Dual degree is the way to if you don't like engineering or computer science.

A business degree (accounting or finance etc) paired with a humanities degree allows you to funnel your classes towards an interest, maintain some semblance of job security, and throughly enjoy college while still making good grades.

Of course, I ended up at grad school anyway. It seems she should have some great undergrad choices for schools, so I'd offer this advice: consider a "very good" school that is much much cheaper and then that money can go to grad school or a nest egg. I went on full scholarship to a state school rather than pay for one of the elite private ones and it has made a huge impact on the ease of paying for grad school.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Just my two cents: your daughter's situation reminds me a lot of me at that age. Not necessarily with the writing thing, but with not having any idea what you "want to do when you grow up". I excelled in math and science classes, and so I decided to school for engineering...because, well, that's what you do when you excel in math and science. We looked at some engineering-heavy schools (RIT, RPI), a handful of Ivies, and SUNY Buffalo. Granted there were a lot of factors in my decision, but a big part of it was that I knew I would have a TON of major options without throwing a ton of tuition money at a future I didn't want but would feel obligated to pursue. I'm sure I'd have been fine and would have had a great time at any of those schools; they're all great schools. But I wonder if I would've hesitated to make a major change knowing I had such a heavy debt burden.

I changed my major from chemical engineering to undecided-engineering to exercise science to broadcast journalism before finally finding something that "felt right" (ETA: accounting, and a few classes short of a minor in Spanish that I couldn't get to before graduating <_< ). While it sounds kinda silly looking back on it, I loved being able to try my hand at a bunch of different disciplines and still graduate on-time with minimal debt. It helped me become the person I am today. I only hope that she doesn't look at the money (albeit money that you're paying, not her) and balk at changing her major or following her passions because she's afraid she's going to waste your money. I have no idea if this is her personality or not....just my perspective.

 

[El Floppo]

Don't be an architect.

 

[bigbottom]

Don't be an architect.

Yeah, another cautionary tale. In high school, I was ABSOLUTELY SURE I was going to be an architect. Took drafting and architecture classes all four years. Applied to and was accepted at one of the top architecture schools in the country at the time. Made it one year before dropping out. Changed to a major in the music school, and then eventually switched to business. The issue at the time was that I was at a school with an elite architecture program but a mediocre at best business program (and mostly mediocre everything else). If I had known that I would end up a business major, I would have gone to a completely different school. So I guess the moral is that even if your high school kid thinks he or she knows 100% what he or she wants to do as a career, keep in mind that there's a good chance that he or she will have a change of heart. If that happens, you'll want to have a school that offers multiple attractive options for your child.Oh yeah, in hindsight I'm glad I moved on from architecture. I was a good draftsman, but would have made a crappy architect.

 

[eoMMan]

One other thing to consider....and I'm not a psychiatrist so take this with a grain of salt....but she is currently in high school and her parents retired early. This may affect her mindset one or the other regarding her career choice. Who knows, she may decide to choose the career that's most lucrative and not necessarily makes her most happy just so she doesn't have to work until she's 65.

 

[chet]

I'm a recent grad and when I am asked to speak to high school students I always say the same thing. Double major/Dual degree is the way to if you don't like engineering or computer science.

A business degree (accounting or finance etc) paired with a humanities degree allows you to funnel your classes towards an interest, maintain some semblance of job security, and throughly enjoy college while still making good grades.

Of course, I ended up at grad school anyway. It seems she should have some great undergrad choices for schools, so I'd offer this advice: consider a "very good" school that is much much cheaper and then that money can go to grad school or a nest egg. I went on full scholarship to a state school rather than pay for one of the elite private ones and it has made a huge impact on the ease of paying for grad school.

I differ in that I think there are ~5-8 schools that are "must attend"if you're admitted. Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge and a couple others. Simply attending these schools can make a difference in a student's life.

 

[El Floppo]

I'm a recent grad and when I am asked to speak to high school students I always say the same thing. Double major/Dual degree is the way to if you don't like engineering or computer science.

A business degree (accounting or finance etc) paired with a humanities degree allows you to funnel your classes towards an interest, maintain some semblance of job security, and throughly enjoy college while still making good grades.

Of course, I ended up at grad school anyway. It seems she should have some great undergrad choices for schools, so I'd offer this advice: consider a "very good" school that is much much cheaper and then that money can go to grad school or a nest egg. I went on full scholarship to a state school rather than pay for one of the elite private ones and it has made a huge impact on the ease of paying for grad school.

I differ in that I think there are ~5-8 schools that are "must attend"if you're admitted. Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Oxford, Cambridge and a couple others. Simply attending these schools can make a difference in a student's life.

it opens a lot of doors for a while for sure... what the person does once the doors are opened is another matter.

 

[Steve Tasker]

So I guess the moral is that even if your high school kid thinks he or she knows 100% what he or she wants to do as a career, keep in mind that there's a good chance that he or she will have a change of heart. If that happens, you'll want to have a school that offers multiple attractive options for your child.

This is a better-put version of what I was trying to say.

 

[cstu]

I would love it if my daughter had that type of adventurous spirit and would happily support it (my wife wouldn't for safety reasons but that is not what you are asking).

My thought process is colored SIGNIFICANTLY more by my financial views than my retirement views. I tend to break things down into value oriented decisions.

In my mind, if you are going to spend $240k investing in yourself, you should be able to have a decent job (not high paying, just decent) when you get out or have a well defined graduate degree in mind that would lead to the same eventuality.

I can see why not everybody thinks that way, but I hardly think that point of view is outrageous by any means.

Not everyone knows what they want to do with their life at 18. $240k is a lot to invest in liberal arts degree that really is just a stepping stone to grad school. I would encourage her to pursue whatever degree she wants but not waste $240k on a private liberal arts college.