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A religious organization 2 miles away from me has a Starbucks in it (1 Viewer)

Steve Tasker

Footballguy
There's a pretty large church near me that has a Subway in it, but it's open to the public.  I think it's nice that they provide some jobs and can use the proceeds to presumably operate their church.  

I don't understand how a Starbucks that isn't open to the public would be profitable?

 

IC FBGCav

Footballguy
There's a pretty large church near me that has a Subway in it, but it's open to the public.  I think it's nice that they provide some jobs and can use the proceeds to presumably operate their church.  

I don't understand how a Starbucks that isn't open to the public would be profitable?
It is a mega church, sure it makes life easier for the congregation.  But pretty sure they operating as a non profit and you my cpa friend get where I am going.

 

Steve Tasker

Footballguy
It is a mega church, sure it makes life easier for the congregation.  But pretty sure they operating as a non profit and you my cpa friend get where I am going.
I do get your drift, but I would wonder if the income would fall under the "unrelated business income" rules - https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/unrelated-business-income-defined - i.e. any non-profit pays tax on any income not directly related to furthering its mission.  I have very, very little non-profit tax experience other than sitting on 1 board, so I have no idea and am not an expert in this area.

 

tjnc09

Footballguy
Your thoughts?  It is in the religious complex.  From what I can tell it is not open to the public.
Every time you post a new thread, I think no way could it be worse than the last one, but yet here you are cluttering up the forum with garbage once again 

 

Ratbone

Footballguy
Many larger churches pay taxes on items like that. Those that have coffee shops, food courts etc are required by law to pay taxes on goods or services bought for resale. 

 

The Commish

Footballguy
I do get your drift, but I would wonder if the income would fall under the "unrelated business income" rules - https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/unrelated-business-income-defined - i.e. any non-profit pays tax on any income not directly related to furthering its mission.  I have very, very little non-profit tax experience other than sitting on 1 board, so I have no idea and am not an expert in this area.
One of two things is likely happening:

1.  The church is running the Starbucks and following the above.

2.  The church is allowing the Starbucks to operate an actual franchise within their walls.  Then the only question is whether Starbucks is paying the church a fee of some sort to be there.  If they are, then the church would have to report it as described above.

 

culdeus

Have good
One of two things is likely happening:

1.  The church is running the Starbucks and following the above.

2.  The church is allowing the Starbucks to operate an actual franchise within their walls.  Then the only question is whether Starbucks is paying the church a fee of some sort to be there.  If they are, then the church would have to report it as described above.
Never mind

 
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Scoresman

Footballguy
Many larger churches pay taxes on items like that. Those that have coffee shops, food courts etc are required by law to pay taxes on goods or services bought for resale. 
Woah woah woah stop. Are you telling me there are churches with food courts out there? I may have to reconsider my anti organized religion stance.  

 

Long Ball Larry

Footballguy
there's a church in roanoke that has a coffee shop inside.  i went there on a sunday and the coffee shop was closed, but the leaders/congregants offered my wife and I coffee for free.  Then there was an awkward few moments where we kind felt like we had to stand around and talk to them in return.

I also tried to find a starbucks while travelling once (around VA/DC, I guess) and it led me to some kind of military base.  I had to explain to the guard what the hell I was doing when I drove up.  Fortunately they believed me and let me go in and turn around.

anyway...

 

Jayrod

Footballguy
My church sells Starbucks coffee along with other drinks and pastries.  We have 3 separate campuses and the largest has 3 different locations selling coffee.  I know sales tax is collected and paid.  I believe the entire property is exempt from property taxes, but I'm not privy to that exact information.  As for income tax, I doubt there is any paid.  The main campus also has a fitness center, junior college and daycare that is run there daily during the week and the cafe is open daily.  I know for a fact that each of these are operated as part of the non-profit and provide these services for free to many people in need.  Not sure about the cafe's finances, though, but I it wouldn't be too tough to show them at a loss or to simply give away enough of the product to make it a charitable endeavor.

The church is a major hub of activity all week long.  Outside of church services, the facilities are used for mental health services, addiction recovery groups, charitable food and clothing distribution, music lessons, dance lessons, sports practices, voting locations, weddings, funerals, graduations, conventions and concerts.  Some of this has fees paid, some of it doesn't.  There are around 100 or more people employed by the church and many subcontracted services paid for.

No one is getting rich off of the church as no one owns any of its assets.  The surrounding area businesses have grown as a direct result of the traffic the church produces.  The pastors are actually a bit underpaid for the work they do, IMO.  If someone is upset about any of this, I would wonder why.  The community is clearly better off with this church in place and while I'm sure people don't like sales and property tax exemptions going to Christian organizations, any non-profit with this level of following, facilities and services would be accorded the same benefit.

 

culdeus

Have good
My church sells Starbucks coffee along with other drinks and pastries.  We have 3 separate campuses and the largest has 3 different locations selling coffee.  I know sales tax is collected and paid.  I believe the entire property is exempt from property taxes, but I'm not privy to that exact information.  As for income tax, I doubt there is any paid.  The main campus also has a fitness center, junior college and daycare that is run there daily during the week and the cafe is open daily.  I know for a fact that each of these are operated as part of the non-profit and provide these services for free to many people in need.  Not sure about the cafe's finances, though, but I it wouldn't be too tough to show them at a loss or to simply give away enough of the product to make it a charitable endeavor.

The church is a major hub of activity all week long.  Outside of church services, the facilities are used for mental health services, addiction recovery groups, charitable food and clothing distribution, music lessons, dance lessons, sports practices, voting locations, weddings, funerals, graduations, conventions and concerts.  Some of this has fees paid, some of it doesn't.  There are around 100 or more people employed by the church and many subcontracted services paid for.

No one is getting rich off of the church as no one owns any of its assets.  The surrounding area businesses have grown as a direct result of the traffic the church produces.  The pastors are actually a bit underpaid for the work they do, IMO.  If someone is upset about any of this, I would wonder why.  The community is clearly better off with this church in place and while I'm sure people don't like sales and property tax exemptions going to Christian organizations, any non-profit with this level of following, facilities and services would be accorded the same benefit.
I would hold all non-profits to the standard of % of charity care as a function of revenue standard.

Religious institutions are notoriously horrible at providing a high % of charity care figure.   It needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.  Some churches I'm sure are good, but some take more than what the put back to the city and can end up being a huge drain that everyone else has to pick up the tab for. 

Churches really drain city funds more than non-profits due to massive land holdings.  Non-Profits might actually rake more, but ultimately cost less to furnish if they rent, for example.  Again apples/oranges.

 

Cold Dead Hands

Footballguy
How many ####s do I have left to give at this point? Not many.

Don't want to waste any on this...

 
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SWC

Bromigo
what if they opened a new starbucks inside of a starbucks that was already there and then when they called in an order it would be like it was coming from inside the house and that my friends just blew your minds up take that to the bank brobuckos

 

SWC

Bromigo
what if it is actually spelled slightly differentally like starbukcs and all they serve is holy wafers now what take that to the bank brohans 

 

IC FBGCav

Footballguy
That is pretty crazy it is 2 miles away from you. I mean if it was 7 or 6 or maybe even 4 miles away from you, ok, nothing to see here. BUT 2 MILES AWAY!?!
I get the hate.  I guess as @tjnc09 said I have been railing against religion a lot.  I definitely need to frame my protests in a better way and definitely should avoid the topic when drinking.  I understand I offend many of you when I should be provoking thought.  My bad for the poor expression and topic.

 

IC FBGCav

Footballguy
Glad you cleared that up. That was going to be so embarrassing for you if someone thought you might have gone to church for some other reason. 
Been in many churches because I was brought there and taught too.  Then I decided to use logic that pulled me away.  I was brainwashed as a kid, it's hard to get deprogrammed.  Not many can look at it objectively once born into it.  To each their own, this is just my path, do what makes you happy.  The way I view things are in stark contrast to religion and when I over came the fear of questioning religious teachings I found many contridictions.  

 
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SWC

Bromigo
That is pretty crazy it is 2 miles away from you. I mean if it was 7 or 6 or maybe even 4 miles away from you, ok, nothing to see here. BUT 2 MILES AWAY!?!
I get the hate.  I guess as @tjnc09 said I have been railing against religion a lot.  I definitely need to frame my protests in a better way and definitely should avoid the topic when drinking.  I understand I offend many of you when I should be provoking thought.  My bad for the poor expression and topic.
or  maybe just have another beer and realize that you dont have to always be attacking something it is ok to just let some people do there thing well you do yours and not everything needs to be civil war look all i am sayin is chill out and let live that is the path of the brohan right there take that to the bank bromigo

 

nirad3

Footballguy
or  maybe just have another beer and realize that you dont have to always be attacking something it is ok to just let some people do there thing well you do yours and not everything needs to be civil war look all i am sayin is chill out and let live that is the path of the brohan right there take that to the bank bromigo
best SWC post evah

 
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SWC

Bromigo
I am sure for some people it is but for someone who looked up to a priest that ended up molesting little kids, not so much.
see there is a diference between getting mad at people that molest kids and people who help cover it up because who doesnt hate that in fact literally everyone on the whole planet hates that versus making a blanket judgement statement about anyone who believes in god or a church and brohan no offense but you come across as the latter my advise is realize that no one is against hating molesters and people that cover for them and dont twist that after a few in to everyone who does not feel the same way about the big kahuna upstairs from down under as me is somehow wrong basically just hate the stuff you should and we all should and dont twist that in to just hating everyone who isnt you take that to the bank bromigo 

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I get the hate.  I guess as @tjnc09 said I have been railing against religion a lot.  I definitely need to frame my protests in a better way and definitely should avoid the topic when drinking.  I understand I offend many of you when I should be provoking thought.  My bad for the poor expression and topic.
No hate, just poking fun at the way you expressed it.

 

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