Aaron Hernandez (1 Viewer)

[billymays]

To me it is almost exactly the same as the CJ no TD catch

Hernandez TD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh9tgrPQZqU

Calvin TD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-P77TjbENQ

I'm a Lions homer so I will accept that maybe i have a different perspective, I just can't believe it isn't a bigger story.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

To me it is almost exactly the same as the CJ no TD catchHernandez TDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh9tgrPQZqUCalvin TDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-P77TjbENQI'm a Lions homer so I will accept that maybe i have a different perspective, I just can't believe it isn't a bigger story.

Really dude, Its not obvious? Hernandez had possesion was on his back then has the ball stripped out a full second after down, ball didnt touch ground thru catch. Calvin use the ball to get up, as he did the ball slipped out of his hand, while it may not be right call against Calvin, it is easy to see the difference.

 

[billymays]

To me it is almost exactly the same as the CJ no TD catchHernandez TDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh9tgrPQZqUCalvin TDhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-P77TjbENQI'm a Lions homer so I will accept that maybe i have a different perspective, I just can't believe it isn't a bigger story.

Really dude, Its not obvious?

Not really obvious to me. I think both guys are down by contact and if nothing else CJ shows more control by making a "football move" and sticking it out with one hand. I guess if the bear DB had just slapped it out after CJ hit the ground and before he used it to try to get up it would have been called a TD.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Ambiguous rules are always decided in favor of the Pats.

 

[Ping Pong]

I think the differences are clear, although I think both should be called TDs.

On Hernandez's catch, he has full control of the ball, comes to the ground, and then Sanders gets his hand in there to knock it out. If Sanders hadn't been there, then it would have been an obvious catch.

Megatron's catch, the ref basically thinks that Megatron didn't have control, and that the ground caused him to drop the ball as he was falling down.

The distinction between the two is that in Hernandez's case, he lost control of the ball because of a defender coming in and hitting him after he was down, and stopped moving. In Megatron's case, he lost control of the ball due to the ground while he was falling. I personally think both are TDs, but if I had to choose one to be ruled incomplete, then I'd go with Megatron's.

 

[California]

Previous posters have covered it pretty well.

Calvin's non-TD is definitely controversial. Hernandez TD isn't.

 

[cvnpoka]

finley had a similar one this week

 

[[icon]]

Ambiguous rules are always decided in favor of the Pats.

As they should be.

 

[DeaLerZ]

Previous posters have covered it pretty well.Calvin's non-TD is definitely controversial. Hernandez TD isn't.

but definitely Calvin's should have been a TD as well...

 

[jomar]

Not really obvious to me. I think both guys are down by contact and if nothing else CJ shows more control by making a "football move" and sticking it out with one hand. I guess if the bear DB had just slapped it out after CJ hit the ground and before he used it to try to get up it would have been called a TD.

while their is a difference in plays (there probably will never be an exact one like Calvin's), the fact is that we have no idea if Hernandez 'completed the process' because none of us really know when the process ends.

 

[TakiToki]

How this play fits into the working interpretation of the rulebook is very interesting, but it's a travesty that the play wasn't reviewed. Absolutely horrible execution by the booth.

 

[DropKick]

How this play fits into the working interpretation of the rulebook is very interesting, but it's a travesty that the play wasn't reviewed. Absolutely horrible execution by the booth.

The play was reviewed - as are ALL scoring plays this year.The Calvin TD was a travesty... horrible interpretation there IMOThis play looks like an incompletion to me... not really seeing the moment control is obtained while on his back. A more interesting comparison to this is the Lance Moore SB catch on the 2 point conversion. There is simply a moment of control as he is on his back/shoulder.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

To me it is almost exactly the same as the CJ no TD catch

Hernandez TD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh9tgrPQZqU

Calvin TD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-P77TjbENQ

I'm a Lions homer so I will accept that maybe i have a different perspective, I just can't believe it isn't a bigger story.

Really dude, Its not obvious?

Not really obvious to me. I think both guys are down by contact and if nothing else CJ shows more control by making a "football move" and sticking it out with one hand. I guess if the bear DB had just slapped it out after CJ hit the ground and before he used it to try to get up it would have been called a TD.

It is fairly obvious imho, he caught the ball and held on to it while he landed, then the ball is slapped out of his hand while he is laying on his back. While I think CJs catch could have (should have) probably been a td as well, the difference is he lost control of the ball when it (the ball) hit the ground (albeit, while starting to get up). The refs rightly or wrongly considered his landing and attempt to get up all as part of the landing. Most of us who saw it considered it a catch and then another move trying to get up; that isn't how the refs interpreted it.

The rule is pretty consistent in that if you catch the ball while falling you must maintain posession through your landing.

In answer to the above bolded portion, yes if a db had slapped it out of CJs hand after he had landed and before he tried to get up it almost certainly would have (rightly) been ruled a td (imo).

 

[TakiToki]

How this play fits into the working interpretation of the rulebook is very interesting, but it's a travesty that the play wasn't reviewed. Absolutely horrible execution by the booth.

The play was reviewed - as are ALL scoring plays this year.The Calvin TD was a travesty... horrible interpretation there IMO

This play looks like an incompletion to me... not really seeing the moment control is obtained while on his back. A more interesting comparison to this is the Lance Moore SB catch on the 2 point conversion. There is simply a moment of control as he is on his back/shoulder.

No, scoring plays are only subject to review just like plays in the last two minutes of halves have been. The booth, inexplicably in my mind, didn't hit the buzzer on the Hernandez play.

 

[kutta]

I thought the rule was that you had to maintain control of the ball throughout your entire "fall" if you go to the ground. It doesn't look to me like Hernandez does that. It looks like the ball is moving a bit right before the defender knocks it away.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

not even close. The difference here is the player had and had possession and another player then ripped the ball out after he had possession. Once you cross the plane and land with possession it's a td. This is almost the same as the end of the MI ND game td. Had the other player not stripped it away and hernandez just dropped it, then you'd have a valid point.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I thought the rule was that you had to maintain control of the ball throughout your entire "fall" if you go to the ground. It doesn't look to me like Hernandez does that. It looks like the ball is moving a bit right before the defender knocks it away.

the only movement of the ball that occurs after the catch is due to bob sanders moving the ball with his hand.freeze it at 45 seconds and 46 seconds. you will see the catch completed with possession. then when sanders rips it away is when it starts moving, a little at first on on the 1st mini swipe, and then all the way out when he wrests the ball away.

 

[billymays]

not even close. The difference here is the player had and had possession and another player then ripped the ball out after he had possession. Once you cross the plane and land with possession it's a td. This is almost the same as the end of the MI ND game td. Had the other player not stripped it away and hernandez just dropped it, then you'd have a valid point.

Ok then Cj's is a TD too.My point of the thread wasn't to be a bitter lion's homer or a Pats hater. Just seems weird that it hasn't been brought up in the media or discussed much if at all.

 

[Reepicheep]

not even close. The difference here is the player had and had possession and another player then ripped the ball out after he had possession. Once you cross the plane and land with possession it's a td. This is almost the same as the end of the MI ND game td. Had the other player not stripped it away and hernandez just dropped it, then you'd have a valid point.

Ok then Cj's is a TD too.My point of the thread wasn't to be a bitter lion's homer or a Pats hater. Just seems weird that it hasn't been brought up in the media or discussed much if at all.

Even if the Hernandez catch was literally identical to CJ in every respect, you have to recognize:Looks like a catch + ruled not a catch + game-winning TD in final seconds denied = media story

Looks like a catch + ruled a catch + first quarter TD in a two-score victory = no media story

 

[texasheat]

some people need to get over the Calvin no-catch, it's ridiculous.

 

[two_dollars]

It's silly that people still think Calvin's was a TD according to the rules in place at the time.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Ambiguous rules are always decided in favor of the Pats.

I actually noticed that live in the game, and thought to myself... "According to the asinine rules that should not have been a TD. Doubt anyone (announcers/refs) notices, though."

 

[AmosMoses]

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

It's silly that people still think Calvin's was a TD according to the rules in place at the time.

I'm pretty amazed by how many people in this thread don't understand that rule, as well. It's a completely dumb rule, but it's pretty easy to understand.