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ABC affiliate: FBI investigates plot to overthrow Michigan Government (1 Viewer)
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quick-hands
Footballguy
Jon. This is a solid woodshed moment. Solidly argued.we have millions of protesters going around chanting "hands up don't shoot" and you have no idea what i am talking about. It is based on a total lie that the media refuses to correct. The whole BLM movement started based on a bunch of lies the media told is about Treyvon Martin. It is not surprising you have no idea what to make of them, because you have never been told the truth. The whole Treyvon Martin case was a joke which had no business going to court. Similar thing is happening today in the Rittenhouse case. The murder charges are a joke and it is an abuse of power.
the Jussie Smollett reporting and the Duke Lacrosse case reporting was horrendous. Jumping to false conclusions and getting on their high horse preaching the evils of racism when it was all a fraud.
quick-hands
Footballguy
I'm talking about the military. What are u talking about. I heard loves our military.
It was not corrected. It went from white man to wannabe cop. They kept the derrogatory narrative the whole time. Railroading a case into the courts which had no business there. The Obama white house kept a large team of justice department lawyers down in Florida for 18-months after the case failed in court, hoping to drum up some ridiculous racial discrimination charges. You have zero clue about 90 percent of what went on but now you are some kind of psycho-analysis.
The Commish
Footballguy
I know....I know....none of us know what you know jon. I watched and followed the whole thing
I didn't consume it through our mainstream media...that seems to be a significant difference between you and me. As I said, down here, it was corrected quickly. It actually went from white man to hispanic wannabe.....which the mounds of evidence towards his character proved in court. I do find it comically transparent that you also leave out the narrative that was thrown out about this kid being a drug addict because he bought an Arizona Tea and some skittles. If you're going to babble on and on about mischaracterizations of individuals, you might as well tell the whole story The ONLY reason it didn't belong in court was because of how terrible the laws are written in this state. Yes, here grown adults are allowed to follow kids around in their neighborhoods and when they suddenly fear for their lives because of their own actions, they are allowed to shoot said kid because said kid ends up kicking the ### of the stalker. The moral events of this are absolutely NOT in question. I have no real idea what you're talking about with regard to Obama as it has nothing to do with the case itself...even you say it was after the case so I'll let you continue that tirade as you see fit.
Fun fact...his ex-girlfriend....the one he tried to kill....she's my next door (well, across the street actually) neighbor
Zimmerman was a piece of crap as a person. But it did not justify NBC editting the 911 call to make him sound like a racist. It does not justify the prosecution advancing the case base on a fake witness who was not even the person she said she was. The actual person who testified in court was not his girlfriend nor the person who was on the phone with Treyvon. And of course you have no idea about the role Obama administeation played in the case and the pressure they brought to bring charges.I know....I know....none of us know what you know jon. I watched and followed the whole thing
The ONLY reason it didn't belong in court was because of how terrible the laws are written in this state. Yes, here grown adults are allowed to follow kids around in their neighborhoods and when they suddenly fear for their lives because of their own actions, they are allowed to shoot said kid because said kid ends up kicking the ### of the stalker. The moral events of this are absolutely NOT in question. I have no real idea what you're talking about with regard to Obama as it has nothing to do with the case itself...even you say it was after the case so I'll let you continue that tirade as you see fit.
Fun fact...his ex-girlfriend....the one he tried to kill....she's my next door (well, across the street actually) neighbor
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squistion
Footballguy
If this 17 year old hadn't crossed state lines with a long gun and then violated the curfew law, two people would be alive and Kyle would not be facing any criminal charges. Everything that happened that night can be traced to his illegal actions and you can't spin that any other way.
Was it premeditated first degree murder? No, but if not convicted of at least some form of manslaughter or criminal assault, then he should deservedly do time for weapons charges. Sadly some are painting this high school drop out vigilante as a hero like George Zimmerman.
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The guys he shoot would be alive too if they hadn't violated curfew laws, so what is your point? Rittenhouse lives in that area and crosses that state line to work as a lifegard in Kenosha. That is in fact his community, which happens to be on a stateline. The first guy was upset at Rittenhouse and attacked him was mad that Rittenhouse had extinguished a dumpster fire he had started and was heading to a gas station with it. But let's blame the kid trying to stop major firea and keep people safe. Let's ignore the real thugs.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Um, Kyle shot him dead. If he violated the curfew laws but Kyle had stayed home with his gun like a good 17 year old and respected the curfew, he would be alive today. Kyle is the causal factor in his death and set the wheels in motion that led to it by his unlawful actions. Take Kyle out of the equation (or his gun) and two people who are now deceased would be alive.
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By what convoluted logic do curfew laws apply to people who were trying to prevent the city from being burnt down but not those who are burning down the city? It makes zero sense. The curfew law was put in place to prevent looting and arson. If protestor were really peaceful, cities would not make these rules. Let's blame the brave people trying to protect their city. Let's praise , worship and excuse the arsonist thugs burning the city to the ground. It is impossible to argue with people who want two different set of rules based on what political side they are on.squistion said:
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The Commish
Footballguy
Here we go again...always fun when this happens...I responded to this:
And just so people know what Jon is talking about...The Today Show edited out the dispatcher asking Zimmerman what color Martin was. They acknowledged the mistake early, fired 3-4 people and apologized. Zimmerman lost his suit against them. I am unaware if he's appealed it or not. That said, you're absolutely correct that they didn't need to alter the tape to try and paint Zimmerman in that light. He has done that himself since...the truth always comes out.
ETA: And in case people wonder whatever happened to Zimmerman, he's currently suing anyone and everyone he can think of. He has suits against the Martin family, his ex-girlfriend and a myriad of others who have gone on record saying based on their interactions with him there is no question what was painted of him in court was accurate. Anyone speaking negatively of him, he's suing.
And then you shift to this:jon_mx said:
Which are two significantly different times in the case. I am fully aware of the "it could have been my son" comments and the like. On it's face, I have no problem with them because the morality of the laws in this state are complete crap (something I notice you don't seem to disagree with or are just ignoring in my previous comments for convenience) and those comments are a way to attempt to get the states to change them. What I said I was not aware of is the "18 months after the case failed in court" comment...no idea what that is. I do know that once the laws were revealed for what they were (which is complete crap) there has been a push ever since to get them changed. I think the country as a whole even realized, in that moment, how screwed up the laws are here. That includes our President at the time and he wanted to do something to change them. You won't buy that argument as it's pretty clear that you think Obama pretty much operated for nefarious reasons rather than attempting to change things for what he believed was the better, but I just thought I'd throw that out as another possible explanation for the events you are describing.jon_mx said:
And just so people know what Jon is talking about...The Today Show edited out the dispatcher asking Zimmerman what color Martin was. They acknowledged the mistake early, fired 3-4 people and apologized. Zimmerman lost his suit against them. I am unaware if he's appealed it or not. That said, you're absolutely correct that they didn't need to alter the tape to try and paint Zimmerman in that light. He has done that himself since...the truth always comes out.
I don't know what this has to do with your rant against the media...if you want to talk about how poorly the DA handled the case, you'll likely get no argument from me, but this specific part is MMQB. While things were unfolding we had no idea what the DA was throwing out there...that includes the media reporting on it. Again, I have no idea what our national media was saying about it. I don't watch or follow it. If you'll recall, that's my assertion from the get go. Our local media (even in the Carolinas at the time) seemed to do a pretty good job at sticking to the events.jon_mx said:
ETA: And in case people wonder whatever happened to Zimmerman, he's currently suing anyone and everyone he can think of. He has suits against the Martin family, his ex-girlfriend and a myriad of others who have gone on record saying based on their interactions with him there is no question what was painted of him in court was accurate. Anyone speaking negatively of him, he's suing.
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squistion
Footballguy
The deaths of two people are the direct consequence of the actions of Kyle Rittenhouse, from his decision to cross a state line with a firearm, take that firearm to play vigilante and have that firearm with him staying out after the curfew. If he stays home in another state, or leaves his gun there, or does not take his gun with him that night, both those people are alive today.
The DA handle the case just fine and refused to press charges. That is where the case should have ended. The real culprit in the case was Ben Crump who failed to coerce the real girl friend of Treyvon to testify, but instead got some loosely related girl to play the role of 'Diamond Eugene' and testify to the narrative that she was on the phone right before he was shot and could establish that Zimmerman was somehow racially-motivated and attacked Trayvon. Crump held a new conference with this newly manufactured testimony and the media and the Obama administration ate it up and forced the state's hand into pressing charges, largely based on the testimony of this fraudulent witness. This case involving this deception is slowly making it's way through the Florida Court system and is being played off by the media as non-sense. But if you remember Diamonds's strange testimony at trial (the first and supposedly the star witness), there were a lot of very peculiar things. She did not fit the looks of someone you would associate with a relatively handsome Trayvon, she was inarticulate, and she could not read cursive, despite the fact she supposedly written the very elegant handwritten note in cursive to Trayvon's mother. There were some really weird use of alias names/nicknames going on, which made no sense. There were dozens of red flags about her which should have been raised and been caught by the prosecution, but never were. In the end, her testimony in court ended up not being all that compelling. It is bizarre and it seems like some weird conspiracy theory and almost unbelievable about how such a fraud could be put forward in such a high-profile case. But it is true and it will be interesting how the case plays out. Crump's head should end up on a platter, along with some others who should have realized it.
The story was exposed by Jack Cashill, who most will blow off as some right-wing kook. But he meticulously documented the facts. These facts were reviewed by a couple of well-respected African-american academia from Columbia University and Brown University, who reviewed the facts and found it completely compelling.
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I can't fathom how anyone can ignore the fact that these people initiated the assault against Rittenhouse. Curfew is a meaningless point, as everyone out was in violation of the curfew. The gun did not cross the state line. Being in possession of a gun in public is perfectly legal in wisconsin. (It is a misdemeanor offense if he was under the age of 18 and was not using it for hunting, but that is meaningless as none of the assailants would have any idea if Rittenhouse was 17, 18, or 19). Regardless, nothing Rittenhouse did justifies the attacks. Nothing. No one is legally justified in attacking someone if they somehow believe they are committing a misdemeanor offense. The thugs were the people actually illegally behaving in a vigilante way. You can rationalize the thugs acting like thugs all you like, but it is a pretty pathetic argument to ignore the role the thugs played in causing their own death. It was a perfectly justifiable use of self-defense regardless of every issue you keep raising. You really never listen and will keep repeating this nonsense.
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squistion
Footballguy
Kyle Rittenhouse shot a guy in the head and killed him, then ran from the scene of the crime. He had an obligation to stay at the scene until the police arrived. And you can't argue he ran away because of fear for his life so he could surrender to authorities, as he didn't do so when he encountered the police, he walked past them and then fled the state that night to avoid arrest.
People who chased him were trying to prevent him from escaping punishment so they could turn him over to authorities (not sure what they were thinking as I wouldn't pursue someone with a gun who had just killed someone). Whether he was justified in killing one and maiming another trying to stop him will be determined by a jury (if he doesn't plead to lesser charges before trial).
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The Commish
Footballguy
My confusion in what this has to do with the media, which has been really my ONLY focus, is still left unaddressed. If you're argument is that the media took the word of the State, sure, they did. Like they do in almost every case. Best I can tell you don't like how the trial went down and the media was reporting how it went down. I don't know what else you expect though. If you're expecting the media to be perfect, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. And "see, they aren't perfect and make mistakes, so they are the devil" isn't really an argument I am interested in entertaining. This whole thing started with a gross generalization about "the media" and I simply said that for those of us in the SE, we didn't have the same experience you did wherever you are. And that makes total sense to me...the closer reporting agencies are to the community and events, the more likely they are to do a better job. If you're relying on CNN or a national news outlet in LA or NY to report on something in Florida, or Mississippi etc, you're doing it wrong IMO and just setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. As I said before, all the "woulda shoulda coulda" is MMQB and not really helpful in the quest to discredit "the media". It's not all equal and neither are circumstances to individual cases. Nor are the events of this case some sort of gotcha to apply across all instances where things aren't covered they way you think they should be. It's just a completely dishonest take IMO. Anyway, you'll disagree and have some sort of retort I'm sure. I just can't and won't ever understand how one would approach the media in this fashion while at the same time attempt to use them as a legit measuring stick for anything they were arguing for/against. It seems pretty illogical and disconnected to me. That's all I have to say about it.
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It does apply to all instances. It does not matter which case it is (Trayvon, Brown, Bennett, Smollett, Duke Lacross, etc.). What drives the right crazy about the media is the grossly different standards the media apply to how each story is spun depending on which side of the narrative it is.
1. The minority is always believed and motives are assumed to be pure. Zero skepticism and the story is reported immediately as headline news and accompinied with outrage even before facts are known.
2. The white/male/conservative story is always viewed with complete skepticism. Their background throughly investigated and evil motives presumed. The media drags their feet and will bury the reporting of the facts which goes against the narrative of widespread racism.
Now you will disagree the above assessment as will the majority of leftists. But nearly every conservative sees that everyday in the MSM reporting and it makes them sick and is why there is so much anger towards the media.
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He has zero obligation to stay if his life was in danger and it was as the mob was starting to form. Rittenhouse was chased. He ran towards the police to turn himself in. They told him to go home which he did.
This is false. Really a terrible twisting of the events and motivation. He did nothing to avoid arrest and made an attempt to turn himself in. The police were occupied with larger concerns and ordered him home in confusion. He turned himself in immediately upon hearing the charges. The case is already being grossly overcharged and none of these items are included for a reason..
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squistion
Footballguy
He didn't try to turn himself in, he was just running from his pursuers who were trying to detain him to where he expected to be safe. The police did not know he had killed two people (a fact you conveniently neglected to mention) and if they had they certainly wouldn't have told him to "Run along home, Kid".
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree all that much actually. I will point out that what you say here, i hear from the left about other msm sources. You're all complaining about the same things, just from different sources. Both sides are right to a point which goes back to my bewilderment of why any of you use the US msm as a source for anything. There are so many other options.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Gretchen Whitmer seems to bring out the worst in some people. I think it's the rather stylish clothing she wears.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
It’s so amazing people are ok with this. In most cases his supporters won’t condemn or even address it. And frequently the reply will just be some deflection or laugh. As I’ve said numerous times - it’s behavior they wouldn’t let their kids get away with. So weird.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"It was our people that helped her out with her problem. I mean, we'll have to see if it's a problem, right? People are entitled to say maybe it was a problem, maybe it wasn't."
- President Of The United States
- President Of The United States
