Abraham agreement? With both Seattle+Atlanta? (1 Viewer)

[Kiddnets]

update from JEts board - on new Jet/Met channel

Abraham stating he will only play for Atlanta, due to being closer to his family there in Carolina. He stated he would not play for Seattle for the same contract. It is "not a money issue" he stated.

Abe trying to help Atlanta heist the Jets - he must not have received the memo that Bradaway is no longer in charge.  Jets will get their deal or he will play for them next year.  Zero leverage to Abe and the falcons.  Pay up or Jets keep him!

Funny statement "Its not a money issue" - its all been about the money to Abe!

BTW - he has no choice but to be a good soldier and not pull a TO - otherwise he loses money in his next deal - if he ever gets one!  He has to be on good behavior and not hury his value!  He has a lousy/malcontnet year and loses the money!

It looks like the Falcons and Abraham have all the leverage. If the Jets don't settle for the Falcons 2nd round pick, then they will have accept the fact that they will have 10 million of their salary cap not used this season. In addition, Abraham could likely play and collect his paycheck but sit out most of the year with a nagging injury.

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage. He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed. The fact that Atlanta is "expected to resume negotiations today" - leads me to beleive that they will sweeten the pot and a deal will get doneon the JEts terms. New regime holding tough.

 

[Big Score]

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage. He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed.

I can't figure out why you keep saying this Kiddnets. It flys in the face of what we've actually seen happen, when talented players do just that.

Joey Galloway

Keyshawn Johnson

Keenan McKardell

T.O.

All of the above mentioned players had a falling out with their team and did not even play for portions of the season, yet recieved quite decent contracts once they moved on.

Can you explain your postion, as to why it would be different for Abraham?

 

[Kiddnets]

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage.  He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed.

I can't figure out why you keep saying this Kiddnets. It flys in the face of what we've actually seen happen, when talented players do just that.

Joey Galloway

Keyshawn Johnson

Keenan McKardell

T.O.

All of the above mentioned players had a falling out with their team and did not even play for portions of the season, yet recieved quite decent contracts once they moved on.

Can you explain your postion, as to why it would be different for Abraham?

With the possible exception of TO (haven't seen his number but I have heard in essence its a one yr deal) - you usually aren't going to get guaranteed long term money as a head case. When Key imploeded in Tampa he got a very modest contract in dallas. Certainly not the $18M guaranteed Abe is asking for. Not to mention - when he played TO dominated - so if Abe becomes a malcontent and dogs it who is going to break the bank for him? Also another year removed from his prime and another year of possible injury.

Let's say the Jets force him to stay just like last year - he will have to play to get paid (he has not cashed in as much as TO/Key in the past) - If he goes from a 10 sack guy to 2 sack guy for dogging it, do you think he sees $18M again? Plus - the need may not be there next year for teams with the money. He needs to strike now to get his money -

I stand by my prediction - atlanta will pay more than a 2nd rder (could be Schaub, could be the 15th could be a 3rd and more to have the pts equal a first) or Abe remains a Jet (unless he changes his mind on Seattle money).

Tanny playing this one perfectly - can't let teams push you around like they did Badaway.

 

[BlueOnion]

update from JEts board - on new Jet/Met channel

Abraham stating he will only play for Atlanta, due to being closer to his family there in Carolina. He stated he would not play for Seattle for the same contract. It is "not a money issue" he stated.

Abe trying to help Atlanta heist the Jets - he must not have received the memo that Bradaway is no longer in charge.  Jets will get their deal or he will play for them next year.  Zero leverage to Abe and the falcons.  Pay up or Jets keep him!

Funny statement "Its not a money issue" - its all been about the money to Abe!

BTW - he has no choice but to be a good soldier and not pull a TO - otherwise he loses money in his next deal - if he ever gets one!  He has to be on good behavior and not hury his value!  He has a lousy/malcontnet year and loses the money!

It looks like the Falcons and Abraham have all the leverage. If the Jets don't settle for the Falcons 2nd round pick, then they will have accept the fact that they will have 10 million of their salary cap not used this season. In addition, Abraham could likely play and collect his paycheck but sit out most of the year with a nagging injury.

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage. He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed. The fact that Atlanta is "expected to resume negotiations today" - leads me to beleive that they will sweeten the pot and a deal will get doneon the JEts terms. New regime holding tough.

I think you want to believe this and if you do then you also have to acknowledge that his current market value is slipping. In other words, the Jets would need to ask for less because, as you are perceiving it, his market value is taking a hit.Usually these cases work against the team holding the players' rights. Minnesota is a great example where the team holding the player's rights have no leverage. If I was the Falcons, I would hold tight, let Abraham handle the situation with the Jets and just wait for him to get released.

 

[Kiddnets]

update from JEts board - on new Jet/Met channel

Abraham stating he will only play for Atlanta, due to being closer to his family there in Carolina. He stated he would not play for Seattle for the same contract. It is "not a money issue" he stated.

Abe trying to help Atlanta heist the Jets - he must not have received the memo that Bradaway is no longer in charge.  Jets will get their deal or he will play for them next year.  Zero leverage to Abe and the falcons.  Pay up or Jets keep him!

Funny statement "Its not a money issue" - its all been about the money to Abe!

BTW - he has no choice but to be a good soldier and not pull a TO - otherwise he loses money in his next deal - if he ever gets one!  He has to be on good behavior and not hury his value!  He has a lousy/malcontnet year and loses the money!

It looks like the Falcons and Abraham have all the leverage. If the Jets don't settle for the Falcons 2nd round pick, then they will have accept the fact that they will have 10 million of their salary cap not used this season. In addition, Abraham could likely play and collect his paycheck but sit out most of the year with a nagging injury.

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage. He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed. The fact that Atlanta is "expected to resume negotiations today" - leads me to beleive that they will sweeten the pot and a deal will get doneon the JEts terms. New regime holding tough.

I think you want to believe this and if you do then you also have to acknowledge that his current market value is slipping. In other words, the Jets would need to ask for less because, as you are perceiving it, his market value is taking a hit.Usually these cases work against the team holding the players' rights. Minnesota is a great example where the team holding the player's rights have no leverage. If I was the Falcons, I would hold tight, let Abraham handle the situation with the Jets and just wait for him to get released.

Do you actually think Abe would get released? Not a chance. Minnesota folded cause Pepper wanted $50M and has a shredded knee that may never let him play at the same level again. A 2nd rd pick for a QB coming off a debilitating injury is probably fair. Abe's value is very high now - especially with the lack of pass rushers on the market - he sat out until the last day of camp last year and had double digit sacks. Same could easily happen this year. I'm telling you - no way Abe is released and doubt highly that Tanny will cave. This is a defining stare down for him. With all the Abe/Atlanta man love - he will sit back and wait for Atlanta to up the offer. If not Abe is a Jet next year - period - how is that not leverage?

 

[DoctorDetroit]

update from JEts board - on new Jet/Met channel

Abraham stating he will only play for Atlanta, due to being closer to his family there in Carolina. He stated he would not play for Seattle for the same contract. It is "not a money issue" he stated.

Abe trying to help Atlanta heist the Jets - he must not have received the memo that Bradaway is no longer in charge.  Jets will get their deal or he will play for them next year.  Zero leverage to Abe and the falcons.  Pay up or Jets keep him!

Funny statement "Its not a money issue" - its all been about the money to Abe!

BTW - he has no choice but to be a good soldier and not pull a TO - otherwise he loses money in his next deal - if he ever gets one!  He has to be on good behavior and not hury his value!  He has a lousy/malcontnet year and loses the money!

It looks like the Falcons and Abraham have all the leverage. If the Jets don't settle for the Falcons 2nd round pick, then they will have accept the fact that they will have 10 million of their salary cap not used this season. In addition, Abraham could likely play and collect his paycheck but sit out most of the year with a nagging injury.

Totally disagree - Jets still have all the leverage. He can't just sit back and collect his paycheck - his market value would be destroyed. The fact that Atlanta is "expected to resume negotiations today" - leads me to beleive that they will sweeten the pot and a deal will get doneon the JEts terms. New regime holding tough.

I think you want to believe this and if you do then you also have to acknowledge that his current market value is slipping. In other words, the Jets would need to ask for less because, as you are perceiving it, his market value is taking a hit.Usually these cases work against the team holding the players' rights. Minnesota is a great example where the team holding the player's rights have no leverage. If I was the Falcons, I would hold tight, let Abraham handle the situation with the Jets and just wait for him to get released.

I think the Jets fans are glad you’re not running the team. Abraham can return with the franchise tag or kiss his career goodbye. The Jets can hold him, he can choose to not play and not get paid, miss the entire season and then hope they release him after the season. Then I think every team will be scared off from signing him to a long-term deal. The problem here is that the Seahawks made the Jets an offer they like so they (the Jets) hold the leverage here. I just don't see why anyone would think any differently. the thing that could swing this is if the Seahawks sign Hutch today, and decide they'd rather spend their money elsewhere which would leave the Jets with no other option but Atlanta. Especially with the contempt between the two parties I see this as a stalemate and maybe we have no winners. But if I'm given the three scenarios to choose from here, I'm taking the Jets keeping him and opening day he is on the field against whomever they are lined up across from. they are not going to release him, and they aren't going to give him away for nothing.

 

[Big Score]

Remember when Galloway sat out a little more than half the 1999 season, came back and played with little heart, yet STILL got a $42 million dollar contract the next year?

Abraham could do the same.

Sign the Franchise, sit out half the year, come back yet play without giving it all his effort to avoid injury (as Kiddnets pointed out). He would still cash in with some team the next year.

GM's aren't stupid. They'll know he was just P.O.'ed at the Jets and played 2006 at only half throttle. A player with talent, is a player with talent.

I could care less where Abraham goes, be it Seattle, Atlanta or staying with the Jets. But to think that if Abraham gets blocked from going to another team and the Jets then force him to stay, that he's going to be a happy little camper and give it his all, is folly IMO.

Especially since the Jets have made it very clear that they don't really want him.

 

[BlueOnion]

I think the Jets fans are glad you’re not running the team. Abraham can return with the franchise tag or kiss his career goodbye. The Jets can hold him, he can choose to not play and not get paid, miss the entire season and then hope they release him after the season. Then I think every team will be scared off from signing him to a long-term deal. The problem here is that the Seahawks made the Jets an offer they like so they (the Jets) hold the leverage here. I just don't see why anyone would think any differently. the thing that could swing this is if the Seahawks sign Hutch today, and decide they'd rather spend their money elsewhere which would leave the Jets with no other option but Atlanta.

Especially with the contempt between the two parties I see this as a stalemate and maybe we have no winners. But if I'm given the three scenarios to choose from here, I'm taking the Jets keeping him and opening day he is on the field against whomever they are lined up across from. they are not going to release him, and they aren't going to give him away for nothing.

Or Abraham could return, collect his paycheck for being franchised and sit out the year with some noteable injury. In addition, I am sure his presence will be felt in the locker room and at practice as far as what he thinks of the Jets organization.To assume he will play this year and not bad mouth the front office or the franchise is a little naive.

 

[Kiddnets]

Remember when Galloway sat out a little more than half the 1999 season, came back and played with little heart, yet STILL got a $42 million dollar contract the next year?

Abraham could do the same.

Sign the Franchise, sit out half the year, come back yet play without giving it all his effort to avoid injury (as Kiddnets pointed out). He would still cash in with some team the next year.

GM's aren't stupid. They'll know he was just P.O.'ed at the Jets and played 2006 at only half throttle. A player with talent, is a player with talent.

I could care less where Abraham goes, be it Seattle, Atlanta or staying with the Jets. But to think that if Abraham gets blocked from going to another team and the Jets then force him to stay, that he's going to be a happy little camper and give it his all, is folly IMO.

Especially since the Jets have made it very clear that they don't really want him.

Actually didn't Seattle get two #1's from Dallas the following year for him even though they wanted to get rid of him? As I said - JEts have the leverage!

 

[brednbuddah]

the Jets want to get rid of Abraham as much as he wants to leave. I think this puts the Jets at a disadvantage, however I think it's offset with the Jets pitting Seattle and Atlanta against each other.

 

[Big Score]

Remember when Galloway sat out a little more than half the 1999 season, came back and played with little heart, yet STILL got a $42 million dollar contract the next year?

Abraham could do the same.

Sign the Franchise, sit out half the year, come back yet play without giving it all his effort to avoid injury (as Kiddnets pointed out). He would still cash in with some team the next year.

GM's aren't stupid. They'll know he was just P.O.'ed at the Jets and played 2006 at only half throttle. A player with talent, is a player with talent.

I could care less where Abraham goes, be it Seattle, Atlanta or staying with the Jets. But to think that if Abraham gets blocked from going to another team and the Jets then force him to stay, that he's going to be a happy little camper and give it his all, is folly IMO.

Especially since the Jets have made it very clear that they don't really want him.

Actually didn't Seattle get two #1's from Dallas the following year for him even though they wanted to get rid of him? As I said - JEts have the leverage!

Seattle indeed got 2 #1's, which simply proves that even if Abraham pulls a T.O. or Galloway, his career would not NOT be over.So the question then becomes, do the Jets play hardball with Abraham by using the Franchise Tag and keep a disgruntled and possibly disrupting malcontent player, who they don't really want anyway, while paying him $8 million dollars and hope they can do better next year?

Or do they want to free up that cap space and get what they can for him now?

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out

 

[BlueOnion]

the Jets want to get rid of Abraham as much as he wants to leave. I think this puts the Jets at a disadvantage, however I think it's offset with the Jets pitting Seattle and Atlanta against each other.

From the way it sounds it doesn't sound like Seattle has a chance because Abraham will not sign a deal with them. Apparently Abraham would rather report to the Jets and collect his franchise player contract.

 

[Rovers]

I honestly would NOT rule this out.... Abraham stays this year.... and the JETS hit him with the tag yet again on 2007! This is what Abraham does have to worry about. By then, he's what, 31? The Jets own his rights.... that fact means they are holding the cards. I think Abraham blinks before the Jets do.

This FO will hold their ground here. Ether Atlanta ups their offer, JA goes to Seattle, or he stays in NY... with the threat of yet another franchise tag hanging over his head, even if it might be for 12 mil.

The issue now has turned into a shootout at the OK corral between the Falcons and Jets FO's. Unless they do something very creative, like also swapping second round pick positions, where Atalanta could still get the Safety I think they still want (face it, Huff is gone before Atlanta picks) both sides could claim victory.

If something like that doesn't happen, JA has a choice... Seattle or NY. I think he blinks... and goes to Seattle.

 

[Kiddnets]

Remember when Galloway sat out a little more than half the 1999 season, came back and played with little heart, yet STILL got a $42 million dollar contract the next year?

Abraham could do the same.

Sign the Franchise, sit out half the year, come back yet play without giving it all his effort to avoid injury (as Kiddnets pointed out). He would still cash in with some team the next year.

GM's aren't stupid. They'll know he was just P.O.'ed at the Jets and played 2006 at only half throttle. A player with talent, is a player with talent.

I could care less where Abraham goes, be it Seattle, Atlanta or staying with the Jets. But to think that if Abraham gets blocked from going to another team and the Jets then force him to stay, that he's going to be a happy little camper and give it his all, is folly IMO.

Especially since the Jets have made it very clear that they don't really want him.

Actually didn't Seattle get two #1's from Dallas the following year for him even though they wanted to get rid of him? As I said - JEts have the leverage!

Seattle indeed got 2 #1's, which simply proves that even if Abraham pulls a T.O. or Galloway, his career would not NOT be over.So the question then becomes, do the Jets play hardball with Abraham by using the Franchise Tag and keep a disgruntled and possibly disrupting malcontent player, who they don't really want anyway, while paying him $8 million dollars and hope they can do better next year?

Or do they want to free up that cap space and get what they can for him now?

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out

It also proves that the franchising team still has leverage even if he becomes a "Galloway". Jets will play hardball - until Atlanta decides to pay value. If not he will be a Jet and this will play out again next year.

 

[Big Score]

I don't think McKay ups the Falcons offer, so unless the Jets accept it, it'll be either Seattle or New York for Mr. Abraham this year.

 

[BlueOnion]

Do you actually think Abe would get released? Not a chance. Minnesota folded cause Pepper wanted $50M and has a shredded knee that may never let him play at the same level again. A 2nd rd pick for a QB coming off a debilitating injury is probably fair.

If I was a new head coach and\or General Manager for a team, I would be interested in installnig a new philosophy and and re-landscaping the franchise. Having a guy collect 8\9 million a year while hanging around the locker room and mumbling "[cough]-[cough] BS" every time the coach addresses the team.

 

[BlueOnion]

I don't think McKay ups the Falcons offer, so unless the Jets accept it, it'll be either Seattle or New York for Mr. Abraham this year.

This would really scare me as a Jets fan. You have a handful of rookies returning from last year, you'll bring in some new rookies in April and you are going to mingle these guys with John Abraham in the locker room?What do you think Abraham is going to tell them, "This organization is outstanding?" No, he is going to bemown how the franchise has jerked him around for two years, he is going to talk about Mawae and company getting released and he is going to talk about Pennington being asked to take a 7 million dollar paycut because he got injuried.

Now you can rationalize it here on the board all you want, but your not going to be in the locker room when Abraham is running his mouth for 16 weeks on how there are much better organizations to play for out there.

For myself, if I were a new head coach, I wouldn't want this guy in my locker room.

 

[Spike]

I wonder if the Jets (Tannenbaum and Mangini) hold firm on their asking price from the Falconsbecause it's their first "test" as newbies in their repective positions.

 

[Rovers]

I wonder if the Jets (Tannenbaum and Mangini) hold firm on their asking price from the Falconsbecause it's their first "test" as newbies in their repective positions.

Blue Onion, this is exactly why I think they would choose to deal with Abraham.... they will NOT let a player dictate what the franchise and the FO do. This new regime KNOWS that this is the test case for them.... are they the walkover that Terry Bradway's FO was, or not? This is more important than a player, even a disgruntled one. If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atalanta and Abraham have used won't work. If they cave, their credibilty is ruined... and they will remain the newbies that caved in. That in the long term, is more important, and I think they know it. Even though the new CBA restricts what a team can do with a player in terms of discipline, you can bet there remains a loophole, which I am sure these two guys have looked into already.

Like I said.... this is the NFL version of the shootout at the OK Corral..... and the "Tangini's" are the sherrifs here. They intend to clean up Dodge, even if it means some blood spilled all the way around.

 

[Big Score]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tatics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

 

[Kiddnets]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tatics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

Its all legit - but Atlanta is in cohoots with Abe to pressure the JEts into taking less than market value. You don't think that the public stance of Abe and Atlanta was coordinated to pressure the Jet FO? If not, Abe would have just gone to Seattle. They are trying to bullying the new FO into a lousy deal and Tanny is holding firm. Thus sending a message to the rest of the NFL that Badaway is gone and there is no more pansies in the FO willing to fold at the first sign of pressure.

 

[Big Score]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tatics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

Its all legit - but Atlanta is in cohoots with Abe to pressure the JEts into taking less than market value. You don't think that the public stance of Abe and Atlanta was coordinated to pressure the Jet FO?

No, I don't think there is a secret & dastardly plot by Abraham an Atlanta, to stick it to the Jets.I think Atlanta doesn't feel Abraham is worth the 15th pick in the 1st round. Obviously the Jets don't either, otherwise they wouldn't have accepted the 31st pick of the 1st round, as offered by Seattle.

What's going on now between Atlanta & the Jets is called negoitiating. Atlanta is saying they feel Abraham is worth 16 picks less than what Seattle is offering. Jets are saying, no, he's worth more.

Maybe they'll find a middle ground, maybe they won't....but I repeat....I don't think that there is some kind of double top secret plot going on between Abraham & Atlanta, to hose the Jets.

 

[fatkid]

The whole thing started because the Jets gave Abraham the right to talk to other teams and arrange a contract. If they hadn't given him that right, he couldn't have set anything up with the Falcons. Also, the Jets still could have setup the deal with the Seahawks, who then would have been the only team who could have talked with Abe about money.

I do realize that agents and teams do talk in violation of the rules, and that collusion is a common occurence in the NFL. But this strategy would have significantly limited the leverage that the Falcons and Abraham now have.

As for who has leverage now, lets examine the principles from a worst case scenario standpoint.

Seahawks, Deal doesn't go through, keep their first round pick.

Faclons, Deal doesn't go through, keep some drafts picks and have mmoney for other players in Free Agency.

Abraham - Deal Doesn't go through, at worst gets an 8.5 Million Gaurenteed contract this year, free agency next year when the cap goes up again.

Jets - Pays out 8.5 Million to a player who doesn't want to be there. Said player will give questionable effort and have and undesireable influence on a locker room that has a young first time head coach. Next year possibly loose Abraham for nothing as they wont franchise him again for over 10 Million. All this anguish, and even with him they still wont be good next year.

Seems clear to me that the Jets are screwed in this case. Abraham to the Falcons, for a couple of picks, but not Matt Schaub. I think Schaub's contract is smaller than Ramsey's, and they opt to stay with the cheeper backup. As for the picks, I guess a second and a third with a pick next year as well.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

The whole thing started because the Jets gave Abraham the right to talk to other teams and arrange a contract. If they hadn't given him that right, he couldn't have set anything up with the Falcons. Also, the Jets still could have setup the deal with the Seahawks, who then would have been the only team who could have talked with Abe about money.

I do realize that agents and teams do talk in violation of the rules, and that collusion is a common occurence in the NFL. But this strategy would have significantly limited the leverage that the Falcons and Abraham now have.

As for who has leverage now, lets examine the principles from a worst case scenario standpoint.

Seahawks, Deal doesn't go through, keep their first round pick.

Faclons, Deal doesn't go through, keep some drafts picks and have mmoney for other players in Free Agency.

Abraham - Deal Doesn't go through, at worst gets an 8.5 Million Gaurenteed contract this year, free agency next year when the cap goes up again.

Jets - Pays out 8.5 Million to a player who doesn't want to be there. Said player will give questionable effort and have and undesireable influence on a locker room that has a young first time head coach. Next year possibly loose Abraham for nothing as they wont franchise him again for over 10 Million. All this anguish, and even with him they still wont be good next year.

Seems clear to me that the Jets are screwed in this case. Abraham to the Falcons, for a couple of picks, but not Matt Schaub. I think Schaub's contract is smaller than Ramsey's, and they opt to stay with the cheeper backup. As for the picks, I guess a second and a third with a pick next year as well.

Regardless.....The Jets are not going to cave and show that they are soft. The Jets have the power because they are the team that is supposed to have the power. They will not give that away based on an example and principle.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

I think the Jets fans are glad you’re not running the team.    Abraham can return with the franchise tag or kiss his career goodbye.  The Jets can hold him, he can choose to not play and not get paid, miss the entire season and then hope they release him after the season.  Then I think every team will be scared off from signing him to a long-term deal.  The problem here is that the Seahawks made the Jets an offer they like so they (the Jets) hold the leverage here.  I just don't see why anyone would think any differently.   the thing that could swing this is if the Seahawks sign Hutch today, and decide they'd rather spend their money elsewhere which would leave the Jets with no other option but Atlanta. 

Especially with the contempt between the two parties I see this as a stalemate and maybe we have no winners.  But if I'm given the three scenarios to choose from here, I'm taking the Jets keeping him and opening day he is on the field against whomever they are lined up across from.   they are not going to release him, and they aren't going to give him away for nothing.

Or Abraham could return, collect his paycheck for being franchised and sit out the year with some noteable injury. In addition, I am sure his presence will be felt in the locker room and at practice as far as what he thinks of the Jets organization.To assume he will play this year and not bad mouth the front office or the franchise is a little naive.

My perspective is always a "little naive" to you Blue Onion which I find funny. So you think he ends up in Atlanta and there is no other way and anyone who thinks any differently is naive? Got it. You think the bolded part is going to get him a fat contract offer next year? He is 28 at his peak, plays one of the most physical positions in the game, and has a handful of teams interested in him at the moment. Throw in the bolded part, him cutting up the front office, and being 29 when the season begins in 2007 and there is a fat chance he gets a phat deal. Abraham needs to get things done this year before he becomes known as a cancer and gets old and he knows it.

No his career won't be over, but I was inferring he is much, much more valuable now than he will be after another year with the Jets. The Jets are not going to release him, that is just preposterous. So the two sides better come up with some sort of resolution or no one will be happy. Jets are rebuilding and likely to go 5-11 anyway so they are going to be miserable regardless. Is having a John Abraham around going to make it any worse? He's a football player, he'll suck it up and we'll be going through the same thing next year when he'll come a little cheaper.

 

[Big Score]

Regardless.....The Jets are not going to cave and show that they are soft. The Jets have the power because they are the team that is supposed to have the power. They will not give that away based on an example and principle.

Sometimes you can end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.Say the Jets don't trade Abraham and instead Franchise him for $8 million dollars and then the next season the Jets can't afford to Franchise him again at $10 million dollars. Then Abraham goes elsewhere as a UFA and the Jets get nothing in return.

If that happens, the Jets FO ceretainly won't be remembered as being soft, they'll be remembered as being stupid!

 

[Rovers]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tatics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

Who said any of THAT? Not me. Underhanded and dastardly? You are hallucinating. Atlanta and Abraham have clearly done their best to paint the Jets FO into a corner, but that is part of the NFL negotiating game. Now, the Jets use these same tactics to play the Seattle deal against Atlanta. Atlanta is doing their best to get the better of the Jets here.... and the Jets will do the same. They will threaten Abraham with the possibilty he might have to stay....

I never said anyone was being dastardly.... hahaha! I don't know if I've ever even typed that particular word.... ever!

This is hardball.... and I don't expect the Jets FO to cave. Now, that I DID say!

 

[Rovers]

The whole thing started because the Jets gave Abraham the right to talk to other teams and arrange a contract. If they hadn't given him that right, he couldn't have set anything up with the Falcons. Also, the Jets still could have setup the deal with the Seahawks, who then would have been the only team who could have talked with Abe about money.

I do realize that agents and teams do talk in violation of the rules, and that collusion is a common occurence in the NFL. But this strategy would have significantly limited the leverage that the Falcons and Abraham now have.

As for who has leverage now, lets examine the principles from a worst case scenario standpoint.

Seahawks, Deal doesn't go through, keep their first round pick.

Faclons, Deal doesn't go through, keep some drafts picks and have mmoney for other players in Free Agency.

Abraham - Deal Doesn't go through, at worst gets an 8.5 Million Gaurenteed contract this year, free agency next year when the cap goes up again.

Jets - Pays out 8.5 Million to a player who doesn't want to be there. Said player will give questionable effort and have and undesireable influence on a locker room that has a young first time head coach. Next year possibly loose Abraham for nothing as they wont franchise him again for over 10 Million. All this anguish, and even with him they still wont be good next year.

Seems clear to me that the Jets are screwed in this case. Abraham to the Falcons, for a couple of picks, but not Matt Schaub. I think Schaub's contract is smaller than Ramsey's, and they opt to stay with the cheeper backup. As for the picks, I guess a second and a third with a pick next year as well.

The Jets didn't give Abraham permission.... he is allowed to do that negotiating under the CBA.... both the old one and the new one, for 14 days after the start of the FA period. Should a team sign him during that period, the Jets have the right to match, if they choose to, or take two first round draft picks in compensation. The rest of your post is almost equally faulted, but are points I've already discussed in previous posts.

 

[Kiddnets]

Regardless.....The Jets are not going to cave and show that they are soft.  The Jets have the power because they are the team that is supposed to have the power.  They will not give that away based on an example and principle.

Sometimes you can end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.Say the Jets don't trade Abraham and instead Franchise him for $8 million dollars and then the next season the Jets can't afford to Franchise him again at $10 million dollars. Then Abraham goes elsewhere as a UFA and the Jets get nothing in return.

If that happens, the Jets FO ceretainly won't be remembered as being soft, they'll be remembered as being stupid!

Jets are fine cap wise for this year and next - much better than 30 days ago. As for the "secret plot between Atlanta and Abe to screw the JEts" - it is not ourageous at all - happens all the time. Remember Curtis MArtin or more recently Hutch working with teams to put in poison pills to screw the other team? You don't think its possible that Atlanta and Abe are conferring on the best way to get Abe to them without giving up the farm!

 

[Big Score]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tactics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

Who said any of THAT? Not me. Underhanded and dastardly? You are hallucinating. Atlanta and Abraham have clearly done their best to paint the Jets FO into a corner, but that is part of the NFL negotiating game. Now, the Jets use these same tactics to play the Seattle deal against Atlanta. Atlanta is doing their best to get the better of the Jets here.... and the Jets will do the same. They will threaten Abraham with the possibility he might have to stay....

I never said anyone was being dastardly.... hahaha! I don't know if I've ever even typed that particular word.... ever!

This is hardball.... and I don't expect the Jets FO to cave. Now, that I DID say!

While underhanded & dastardly were not the words you used, you did say that Atlanta employed certain tactics that the Jets will refuse to bow to and that the rest of the NFL is now on notice not to try employing similar tactics. From that, the inescapable conclusion is that you are implying Atlanta has used some type of unsavory tactics.

Again, all Atlanta has done is to come to terms on a contract with Abraham and offer a draft pick 16 slots less than the one offered by the Seahawks.

I don't see how this comes across as a tactic by Atlanta, to paint the Jets FO into a corner.

Now Abraham saying he only wants to go to Atlanta and that he won't play for the Seahawks?

Yeah....Abraham is putting the Jets FO on the spot.

But not Atlanta.

 

[brednbuddah]

If they play hardball.... the rest of the NFL knows that the tactics Atlanta and Abraham have used won't work.

Rovers, Exactly what are these underhanded & dastardly tatics that Atlanta is using?

That they've worked out a contract agreement with Abraham and offered the Jets a draft pick?

Are these the tactics that the rest of the NFL now knows won't work with the Jets?

Atlanta wants Abraham, but is, from what I've heard on WFAN, is unwilling to give up Schuab or their #1 pick (#15 overall).Atlanta is clearly looking to have it's cake and eat it too by attempting to test a green FO.

 

[Big Score]

Jets are fine cap wise for this year and next

Really Kiddnets?Could you break down next years cap for me?

Make sure you include the numbers against next years cap, for the rookie contracts the Jets have yet to sign.

Remember Curtis MArtin or more recently Hutch working with teams to put in poison pills to screw the other team?

Martin did not write a poison pill into his contract. Parcells wanted him on the Jets squad and Martin was either a 1st round tender or Franchise player (can't remember which) of the Pats at the time.Hutch did not write the poison pill into his contract offer either, that's just idle speculation around here. Everything I've read is that the Vikes FO specifically put that clause in and it was to make it that much harder for the Seahawks to match.

However, if you've got a legitimate reliable source, that it was Hutch who came up with the poison pill, then I'll step back here. I just haven't seen anything from any of the major reporting services, that corroborate what you're saying about Hutch.

But again to answer your question.

No, I don't think Atlanta is conspiring with Abraham to hose the Jets.

I think Atlanta feels that Abraham is not worth the 15th pick in the 1st round and as I pointed out earlier, neither do the Jets, or they wouldn't have agreed to the Seahawks 31st pick of the 1st round.

To Atlanta, Abraham is worth 16 picks less than what the Seahawks are offering and it's as simple as that.

There is no double top secret conspiracy between Atlanta & Abraham, to hose the Jets.

 

[BlueOnion]

My perspective is always a "little naive" to you Blue Onion which I find funny. So you think he ends up in Atlanta and there is no other way and anyone who thinks any differently is naive? Got it.

You think the bolded part is going to get him a fat contract offer next year? He is 28 at his peak, plays one of the most physical positions in the game, and has a handful of teams interested in him at the moment. Throw in the bolded part, him cutting up the front office, and being 29 when the season begins in 2007 and there is a fat chance he gets a phat deal. Abraham needs to get things done this year before he becomes known as a cancer and gets old and he knows it.

No his career won't be over, but I was inferring he is much, much more valuable now than he will be after another year with the Jets. The Jets are not going to release him, that is just preposterous. So the two sides better come up with some sort of resolution or no one will be happy. Jets are rebuilding and likely to go 5-11 anyway so they are going to be miserable regardless. Is having a John Abraham around going to make it any worse? He's a football player, he'll suck it up and we'll be going through the same thing next year when he'll come a little cheaper.

I didn't mean to sound condencsending, if I did I apologize. From the perspective of John Abraham, the Jets have been jerking him around for two years and each year he "sucks it up". At some point, I think it becomes naive to imagine he will 'suck it up' for a third year.At some point one would have to expect that Abraham would just tell the Jets to 'suck it up'.

 

[Kiddnets]

Jets are fine cap wise for this year and next

Really Kiddnets?Could you break down next years cap for me?

Make sure you include the numbers against next years cap, for the rookie contracts the Jets have yet to sign.

Remember Curtis MArtin or more recently Hutch working with teams to put in poison pills to screw the other team?

Martin did not write a poison pill into his contract. Parcells wanted him on the Jets squad and Martin was either a 1st round tender or Franchise player (can't remember which) of the Pats at the time.Hutch did not write the poison pill into his contract offer either, that's just idle speculation around here. Everything I've read is that the Vikes FO specifically put that clause in and it was to make it that much harder for the Seahawks to match.

However, if you've got a legitimate reliable source, that it was Hutch who came up with the poison pill, then I'll step back here. I just haven't seen anything from any of the major reporting services, that corroborate what you're saying about Hutch.

But again to answer your question.

No, I don't think Atlanta is conspiring with Abraham to hose the Jets.

I think Atlanta feels that Abraham is not worth the 15th pick in the 1st round and as I pointed out earlier, neither do the Jets, or they wouldn't have agreed to the Seahawks 31st pick of the 1st round.

To Atlanta, Abraham is worth 16 picks less than what the Seahawks are offering and it's as simple as that.

There is no double top secret conspiracy between Atlanta & Abraham, to hose the Jets.

Obviously I am not the Jets cap guru but all the numbers on the Jets board show the Jets $14M under this years cap including Abe. There are no contracts that are public that would make their numbers jump up $14M even with a top 4 pick being signed. And you are wrong on Curtis - there was a poison pill that allowed him to become a UFA one year into the deal that the Pats did not want to match and was considered a deal breaker back then - as such the Pats allowed him to walk for the 1st rd pick.

As for Hutch's contract - I can only go by what info I have but there have been reports of a poison pill. Players work with teams to dissuade teams to match - I don't think its wrong per se - just saying it happens.

 

[Big Score]

Atlanta wants Abraham, but is, from what I've heard on WFAN, is unwilling to give up Schuab or their #1 pick (#15 overall).

Atlanta is clearly looking to have it's cake and eat it too by attempting to test a green FO.

brednbuddah,Why on earth would Atlanta give up the 15th pick in the 1st round for Abraham, when the Jets have already made it known that they'll take the 31st pick in the 1st round for Abraham?

Atlanta would be stupid to do that.

Atlanta won't give up Schaub because they want a good back up behind Vick due to his reckless style of play + now that the Jets have Ramsey, I don't think they're even looking at Schaub anymore.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

My perspective is always a "little naive" to you Blue Onion which I find funny.  So you think he ends up in Atlanta and there is no other way and anyone who thinks any differently is naive?  Got it. 

You think the bolded part is going to get him a fat contract offer next year?  He is 28 at his peak, plays one of the most physical positions in the game, and has a handful of teams interested in him at the moment.  Throw in the bolded part, him cutting up the front office, and being 29 when the season begins in 2007 and there is a fat chance he gets a phat deal.  Abraham needs to get things done this year before he becomes known as a cancer and gets old and he knows it. 

No his career won't be over, but I was inferring he is much, much more valuable now than he will be after another year with the Jets.  The Jets are not going to release him, that is just preposterous.  So the two sides better come up with some sort of resolution or no one will be happy.  Jets are rebuilding and likely to go 5-11 anyway so they are going to be miserable regardless.  Is having a John Abraham around going to make it any worse?  He's a football player, he'll suck it up and we'll be going through the same thing next year when he'll come a little cheaper.

I didn't mean to sound condencsending, if I did I apologize. From the perspective of John Abraham, the Jets have been jerking him around for two years and each year he "sucks it up". At some point, I think it becomes naive to imagine he will 'suck it up' for a third year.At some point one would have to expect that Abraham would just tell the Jets to 'suck it up'.

 

[Big Score]

And you are wrong on Curtis - there was a poison pill that allowed him to become a UFA one year into the deal that the Pats did not want to match and was considered a deal breaker back then - as such the Pats allowed him to walk for the 1st rd pick.

Again there is zero mention anywhere that Martin had anything to do with the claues in the contract for either a 1 yr deal at $4 million with no Franchise Tag thereafter, or a 6 yr $36 million dollar deal. Everything points to Mike Tannenbaum, the Jets' contract negotiator at that time, as the architect of that clause.And once the Jets upped the ante for Martin to a 1st round & 3rd round pick, Kraft dropped his appeal of the contract language.

 

[Kiddnets]

And you are wrong on Curtis - there was a poison pill that allowed him to become a UFA one year into the deal that the Pats did not want to match and was considered a deal breaker back then - as such the Pats allowed him to walk for the 1st rd pick. 

Again there is zero mention anywhere that Martin had anything to do with the claues in the contract for either a 1 yr deal at $4 million with no Franchise Tag thereafter, or a 6 yr $36 million dollar deal. Everything points to Mike Tannenbaum, the Jets' contract negotiator at that time, as the architect of that clause.And once the Jets upped the ante for Martin to a 1st round & 3rd round pick, Kraft dropped his appeal of the contract language.

You honestly think Curtis and his agent had nothing to do with that clause to get them to NY? NY press made a big deal about the poison pill and how it was specifically put in there to keep NE from matching - and Curtis wanted to come and was all for the pill.

My point is simply it happens.

 

[Big Score]

NorthJersey.com

Jets pitch hardball to Falcons

Sunday, March 19, 2006

By RANDY LANGE

STAFF WRITER

In the Jets' stare down with the Atlanta Falcons over the trade of John Abraham, there is more at stake than meets the eye.

The Jets and Mike Tannenbaum, trying to consummate his first major deal as an NFL general manager, seek to secure the means to make another trade, from their fourth overall pick in next month's draft to No. 2, where New Orleans now resides.

And the object of that swap with the Saints would be to select Southern Cal quarterback Matt Leinart.

That rumor has been floated before, but a knowledgeable league source said Saturday that it is the driving force behind Tannenbaum's hardball negotiations with Atlanta GM Rich McKay over compensation for Abraham, the franchise-tagged pass-rushing superstar.

The Jets want Atlanta's first-round pick, 15th overall, to let Abraham join the Falcons. The Falcons initially offered their second-rounder (No. 47).

In an attempt to break the impasse, the source said, McKay offered to include a player with the second-rounder.

The identity of the player isn't known, but the Falcons have discussed trading T.J. Duckett, featured back Warren Dunn's backup the past four years.

After parting with LaMont Jordan a year ago, the Jets could be tempted to bring in another heir apparent for Curtis Martin, this time with Martin clearly being throttled down at the end of his career.

But the Jets, according to the NFL source, said no to the two-plus-a-player.

They could still trade up with the Saints by trading, say, their No. 4 plus their second- and third-round picks. But they want the mid-first-round pick, which they could spend on a linebacker such as Chad Greenway or DeMeco Ryans for new coach Eric Mangini's defense.

That is where the sides reportedly stood Saturday, irritated with each other's stance but still communicating and taking time out, likely until Monday, to ponder their positions.

The Seahawks dealt themselves into this game by offering their 31st overall pick for Abraham, but while it is believed they have made a contract proposal to agents Tony Agnone and Rich Rosa, Abraham's choice is Atlanta.

Little clearer now why Mike Tannenbaum is taking the stance he is.

Good job by McKay telling Tannenbaum to forget the 15th. No way should Atlanta over pay for Abraham like that.

Let Seattle have him, or if the Jets can't move him to Seattle, keep Abraham, move up two spots in the 1st, but not draft again until day 2.

 

[BlueOnion]

My perspective is always a "little naive" to you Blue Onion which I find funny. So you think he ends up in Atlanta and there is no other way and anyone who thinks any differently is naive? Got it.

You think the bolded part is going to get him a fat contract offer next year? He is 28 at his peak, plays one of the most physical positions in the game, and has a handful of teams interested in him at the moment. Throw in the bolded part, him cutting up the front office, and being 29 when the season begins in 2007 and there is a fat chance he gets a phat deal. Abraham needs to get things done this year before he becomes known as a cancer and gets old and he knows it.

No his career won't be over, but I was inferring he is much, much more valuable now than he will be after another year with the Jets. The Jets are not going to release him, that is just preposterous. So the two sides better come up with some sort of resolution or no one will be happy. Jets are rebuilding and likely to go 5-11 anyway so they are going to be miserable regardless. Is having a John Abraham around going to make it any worse? He's a football player, he'll suck it up and we'll be going through the same thing next year when he'll come a little cheaper.

I didn't mean to sound condencsending, if I did I apologize. From the perspective of John Abraham, the Jets have been jerking him around for two years and each year he "sucks it up". At some point, I think it becomes naive to imagine he will 'suck it up' for a third year.At some point one would have to expect that Abraham would just tell the Jets to 'suck it up'.

My fear with the Jets is they have an opportunity to start a new and fresh; new GM, new coach and soon to be a whole new roster. I would hate to see the Jets fail to start off with a solid foundation because they wanted to keep a malcontent around for a whole year because of a difference in about 15 picks in this year's NFL draft.I think it would be one thing if this Abraham\franchise thing was only a few months old, but I believe this is the 3rd year in which Abraham may feel he is getting pushed around and asked to 'suck it up'. You can only push someone so far and I think if Abraham had to play one more year for the Jets knowing he would not be with the Jets in 2007, it would cause more problems than benefits down the road.

 

[Bri]

has this been hashed out yet?

 

[Big Score]

has this been hashed out yet?

No...help us out with your insight on the matter Bri.

 

[Bri]

no clue, I'll send out some emails see if anyone replies though

 

[brednbuddah]

Atlanta wants Abraham, but is, from what I've heard on WFAN, is unwilling to give up Schuab or their #1 pick (#15 overall).

Atlanta is clearly looking to have it's cake and eat it too by attempting to test a green FO.

brednbuddah,Why on earth would Atlanta give up the 15th pick in the 1st round for Abraham, when the Jets have already made it known that they'll take the 31st pick in the 1st round for Abraham?

Atlanta would be stupid to do that.

Atlanta won't give up Schaub because they want a good back up behind Vick due to his reckless style of play + now that the Jets have Ramsey, I don't think they're even looking at Schaub anymore.

didn't exactly think that one through, did I ?

 

[Kiddnets]

If seattle does not match Hutch tonight there could be a huge wrinkle in the John Abe sweepstakes - Seattle will have a ton of money to throw around.

 

[Big Score]

Seattle will have a ton of money to throw around.

I know Abraham says he wants to be close to family & friends, but surely if Seattle ponies up the dough, he'll play for them.If he still doesn't want to sign with them, then I guess we'll actually be seeing a player who truly means it when he says it's not about the money.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

"And they are not done there. Still in place is a contingent deal for defensive end John Abraham, whom the Seahawks have the exclusive negotiating rights for from the New York Jets in exchange for Seattle's first-round pick."

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9324476

 

[Gravity]

I think the JETS have the leverage for 2 simple reasons:

1. We all know that the window to win in the NFL is short. If Atlanta thinks Abraham is a key missing component they can't just wait until next year. Who knows what their situation will be then...To wait a year when you are in championship mode (not rebuilding mode) is not an acceptable position. Especially with the mediocre year they had last year.

2. The Javon-Walker effect. The entire goal for Abraham is to get that long-term/gauranteed contract. Otherwise he'd be happy with the 8 million from the JETS. he wants that final, last big contract. He can blow out his ACL in game 1 and then its over for him. NO WAY he wants to take that risk. That's why players HATE the franchise tag and why Abraham has little leverage here.

 

[Z-Dog]

Does this mean that the Jets have withdrawn permission from Abraham to negotiate with Atlanta? Such a move would be a strong move for the Jets because it forces Abraham to decide how much he trusts the Falcons, while simultaneously forcing Atlanta to decide how much they like Abraham.

Or does this phrase mean something else, or is the writer plain wrong, or is this awkward phrasing?

 

[BlueOnion]

If seattle does not match Hutch tonight there could be a huge wrinkle in the John Abe sweepstakes - Seattle will have a ton of money to throw around.

Seattle just threw a lot of money at Julian Peterson, so the Falcons might be the only remaining suitor for Abraham.