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Acquiring Future 1st Rd Picks in Dynasty Leagues (1 Viewer)

mlball77

Footballguy
I don’t know how most people view this, but I think some care needs to be taken when acquiring future first round picks. I’ve often had thoughts on this topic such as, “This is a mediocre team, so their first in 2013 should be around #5-#8 overall.” Or, “this team is clearly a playoff team, so their pick should be around #9-#12.” --Assuming this is a 12-team league.

While using a range for my expectations of where a given pick should end up provides me with some wiggle room, I now believe that said ranges are still largely inappropriate in many cases. Things can change very fast in dynasty. A breakout player or two (maybe like Arian Foster a couple of years ago) can elevate a team a tier above general expectations, in my experience. Similarly, a couple of wicked injuries and a top tier team can fall a peg or two. –It happens quite often in FF.

Further, a mediocre team can slip into the playoffs and have a couple/few big weeks and win the league. This isn’t all that uncommon. While the consensus might have been for this unexpected champ to finish around 6 or 7 overall, they actually ended up #1 despite a so-so regular season record. And if you previously acquired their pick, you landed the 1.12 pick in a twelve-team league, and not the 1.05 to 1.08 like you had anticipated.

It’s probably not necessary to even say, but the type of scenario I just detailed can greatly impact the results of your trades and the strength of your team going forward.

I’m starting to look at future first round pick acquisitions like this:

[*]Identify the clear top 2-3 teams in the league and consider their pick as likely to be 1.08-1.12 for the following year (in a 12-team league).

[*]Identify the clear bottom 2-3 teams and consider their picks as likely to be 1.01-1.05.

[*]Take the other 6-8 teams and try not to make too much of an assumption about where their 1st rd pick next year may end up. These middle ground teams are too tough to project. --Don’t acquire one of these picks at the price you’d typically pay for a mid first rd pick. If they can be acquired at a price commensurate with a late first, then it makes sense. If not, you have too much risk of overpayment.

Right now, I currently own a couple of first rd picks that fall into the middle ground group. I’d like to think they’ll end up being around 1.06 or 1.07 for me in 2013, but really, they could end up anywhere very easily. I don’t really know what I have with them.

What do you guys think on this topic?

 
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Assume the worst and hope for the best. Use the assumption that any team first rounder is a 1.12. What owner wants to argue they have zero shot at winning the league?

Does anyone play in a league that puts protections on "lottery" picks like in the NBA?

 
Assume the worst and hope for the best. Use the assumption that any team first rounder is a 1.12. What owner wants to argue they have zero shot at winning the league?

Does anyone play in a league that puts protections on "lottery" picks like in the NBA?
That is definitely the safest approach. No disagreement there. -But practically speaking, if you are in the midst of trade talks with Owner X and he is widely seen as one of the weakest couple of teams in your league, you wouldn't pony up more for their first vs. what you would for the first rd pick of Owner Y (whom is widely seen as a top 2 team)?
 
Assume the worst and hope for the best. Use the assumption that any team first rounder is a 1.12. What owner wants to argue they have zero shot at winning the league?

Does anyone play in a league that puts protections on "lottery" picks like in the NBA?
That is definitely the safest approach. No disagreement there. -But practically speaking, if you are in the midst of trade talks with Owner X and he is widely seen as one of the weakest couple of teams in your league, you wouldn't pony up more for their first vs. what you would for the first rd pick of Owner Y (whom is widely seen as a top 2 team)?
The reason I don't put a lot of stock in what I see as a 'bad' team is that the team is trading away the 1st in the hopes of making their team better. After trading away their 1st they will be more inclined to trade away more picks to make the playoffs. It depends on how active the owner is but I've seen teams go from a potential 1.01 to winning the league.
 
You are right in that you never really know how advance year 1st rounders are going to fall in the order. Who won or lost a trade can look alot different a year later.

 
Depends on the league in question. I traded for a 2012 1st last year giving up my 2012 1st and 2 2nd round picks because I assumed that I would be getting a top 2 pick and low and beyond the team went 0-13 and I got Trent Richardson coming to town now.

Last year in another league I traded pick 1.06 and my 3rd round pick in 2013 for a team's 1st round pick in 2013. That team has had the #1 and #2 picks in our 1st 2 years. I am assuming a top 3 pick next year.

All depends on the owners and players.

Sure you can get burned too as in 1 of my leagues My teammate and I traded away our 1st in a start up draft last year and we ended up pick 1.02 this year...those kind hurt.

When you are trading with people they will for sure look at your team and your past history when deciding what to give for your 1st. Not all 1sts are equal. I can not fetch 1/2 of what other can for their 1st sometimes that is the price you pay for having a good team and winning championships.

 
Assume the worst and hope for the best. Use the assumption that any team first rounder is a 1.12. What owner wants to argue they have zero shot at winning the league?

Does anyone play in a league that puts protections on "lottery" picks like in the NBA?
That is definitely the safest approach. No disagreement there. -But practically speaking, if you are in the midst of trade talks with Owner X and he is widely seen as one of the weakest couple of teams in your league, you wouldn't pony up more for their first vs. what you would for the first rd pick of Owner Y (whom is widely seen as a top 2 team)?
The reason I don't put a lot of stock in what I see as a 'bad' team is that the team is trading away the 1st in the hopes of making their team better. After trading away their 1st they will be more inclined to trade away more picks to make the playoffs. It depends on how active the owner is but I've seen teams go from a potential 1.01 to winning the league.
Great point. And as RavenLunatic indicated, most owners don't want to see their team as a bottom tier type. But back to your point, I mentioned things could change quickly in dynasty, thus impacting the value of future picks. I didn't at all go into the point you made that a team could make a couple of big trades to vastly improve their team (and may be more inclined to attempt such after shipping away their future first)... and you are right. This is part of the risk one takes when going after any future first.
 
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You are right in that you never really know how advance year 1st rounders are going to fall in the order. Who won or lost a trade can look alot different a year later.
This isn't true at all. If you have been playing for years in a dynasty league you get a feel for what owners struggle and others that tend to draft well and trade well.Is it 100% accurate...no but I see people trade for picks 2-3 years in advance because they see the other team about to fall apart.Take last year for example a guy in my 1 league traded Addai for a 2013 1st round pick..."2 years out how will they ever know if that team will be good"He had #3 pick this year and next year he really likes like #1 or #2 pick. Seeing 2 years out isn't all that hard.Sure your not 100% accurate sure it depends on what kind of league (shallow rosters, deep rosters, taxi squads, ect) but you can figure it out more than you will miss the teams in the playoffs and teams not making it.This is how some teams keep their teams on top for long runs 10+ years in a row of making the playoffs and competing for titles is because they can make certain trades and keep landing high draft picks when they otherwise would never have that chance since they always make the playoffs.
 
I agree that it is risky if you think it is a top pick. In a league a few years ago one team traded the 1.5 for a 1st rounder the next year that he thought would be top 2. The 1.5 in 2 QB league was Brady Quinn in the end but that 1st rounder that was thought to be high ended up 1.12

Last year a team speculated on a team being the 1.1 for Andrew Luck in the 2 QB league. He gave up his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, Andre Roberts, and some other pieces that were okay and helped him win. The picks ended up 1.6 while his was 1.10. Nice deal for the team he thought would end up last.

Another trade was a team gave up what they thought was top 3 pick from another team while the other owner thought it was 6-10. He traded his 1st which ended up the 1.3 and 3.3 to end up with the 1.7 in draft. A great loss and what a win for the other team. Higher pick and a 3rd for free.

You cant count on anything when I read these things. Dont own your 1st and you try to win. Always seems to be a team that ends up wanting a high pick and goes out of way to get it. I am in 2 leagues. 2 teams in one last year sold everything for Suck for Luck. In the other league, 2 teams again did the approach to Bent for Trent. This seems to be a common occurence and when you don't own your 1st you try to win. Sometimes it will work out. I know I traded Wallace last year for 4 1st including one that ended up 1.2 and the team that traded was thought to be top 4 team and ended up 1.7. Plus 1.12 and 1.13 as last picks. Nice haul in the end but who knew the one team would end up 2nd even with 2 teams trying to lose with me being 1. I ended up 3rd.

 
I like it. Its a fun gamble. Gives me another team to root for/against the following week. Can't really assign a value until I look at the team.

I'll always trade away my future 1st for a player that will help me this year. A future pick is a renewable resource. Adding a quailty/proven player isn't always something that is available. Plus you get an extra year of production this way.

 
Depends on the league in question. I traded for a 2012 1st last year giving up my 2012 1st and 2 2nd round picks because I assumed that I would be getting a top 2 pick and low and beyond the team went 0-13 and I got Trent Richardson coming to town now.Last year in another league I traded pick 1.06 and my 3rd round pick in 2013 for a team's 1st round pick in 2013. That team has had the #1 and #2 picks in our 1st 2 years. I am assuming a top 3 pick next year.All depends on the owners and players.Sure you can get burned too as in 1 of my leagues My teammate and I traded away our 1st in a start up draft last year and we ended up pick 1.02 this year...those kind hurt.When you are trading with people they will for sure look at your team and your past history when deciding what to give for your 1st. Not all 1sts are equal. I can not fetch 1/2 of what other can for their 1st sometimes that is the price you pay for having a good team and winning championships.
I definitely agree with you that owners and their history should factor in to your analysis of a the value of a future first round pick. It impacts how I see them finishing a given year (and where their pick will ultimately end up). For example, there is one owner in a league I'm in that I typically feel has a slightly below average roster, but he is crafty and always finds a way to compete for or make the playoffs. His roster never looks flashy and I've talked to some in the league that are surprised when he makes the playoffs. -Knowing this about this owner, I know to bump the value of his first rd pick down a little bit from where I might otherwise put it if another person was working with that same roster. To me it sounds like you are probably falling into that upper tier of 2-3 teams in your league, Dez. In which case, I'm thinking your pick may be safely assigned a value somewhere in the 1.08 - 1.12 value (assuming 12 team league). That pick is definitely going to fetch far less than a team's first that is in the bottom tier. -It's that middle group that gets really tricky, imo. I'm not so sure any longer that I'd be willing to pay much more for a future first from a mid level team than I would for an upper tier team like yours, Dez. -I've done so numerous times in the past, but I'm just not sure that it is worth the investment. -This is largely the crux of my original post.
 
Assume the worst and hope for the best. Use the assumption that any team first rounder is a 1.12. What owner wants to argue they have zero shot at winning the league? Does anyone play in a league that puts protections on "lottery" picks like in the NBA?
I've done this once. Nothing came of it, but wouldn't do it again. Language of agreement got pretty ridiculous.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
I would love to do this, don't think anyone would take me up on it though.
 
Like I said it really depends on the type of league. In another league I was in a start up draft in 2010 and I picked up another teams 1st round pick as the draft went on it was apparent this team was going all out drafting older vets to win the title that year so I traded that 1st away in a deal to aquire another 1st while letting them move up in the start up. Well amazingly that team that everyone thought would win the title finished with pick 1.01 and I was cursing my pick 1.09 I had swapped it for. This league was in the 1st year though and isn't a typical dynasty league so I think it is much harder to tell in those short roster leagues and in the 1st year.

Leagues you have played a few years in make it a little easier...as always it can end up a crap shoot you never know for sure in 1 of my leauges last year the team I thought would finish in the bottom 4 for sure went 6-7 snuck into the playoffs (would have been pick 5 had they lost round 1) but ended up getting hot and winning the title so they ended up with last pick.

 
I like it. Its a fun gamble. Gives me another team to root for/against the following week. Can't really assign a value until I look at the team. I'll always trade away my future 1st for a player that will help me this year. A future pick is a renewable resource. Adding a quailty/proven player isn't always something that is available. Plus you get an extra year of production this way.
I agree with this and usually trade away my 1st rounders. However, in one dynasty league this year I had Peyton Manning, Jamaal Charles and Kenny Britt. When Charles and Britt went down a week apart it was a gut punch and I immediately went into "youth mode". I traded away Turner for a 2012 1st and then Decker for a 2012 1st. I knew the worst team in the league would boil down to my decimated team or this other guys ugly roster, so I offered him the two 1st I had collected for his 1st. He accepted and ended up the season as the worst team. My team was second worst. The other two picks were 1.05 and 1.10.This is such an interesting topic because it deals with human psychology. People "do not take kindly" to others requesting their 1st rounder.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
This usually happens in a startup during a draft. It is for giggles and to stir the pot during draft time.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
This usually happens in a startup during a draft. It is for giggles and to stir the pot during draft time.
Yeah, I think this may have been the case in the league I was referring to. That or during the second year.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
This happens every year in one of my leagues... makes for lots of fun, imo.I often deal for future 1sts. For any team that doesn't seem like a top 4 team, I typically value a future first at about a 1.06-1.08. The other four I think of as 1.12. Just my way of playing it safe.
 
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
I have done this twice and "won" both times. In both cases it was only like two or three spots which matters, but not enough for me to thump my chest about.
 
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Right before the rookie draft last year I ponied up 2.3, 2.4 and 3.5 for a teams 2012 1st rounder. The team had the 2011 1.1, and was far inferior to the rest of the league. The owner then got kicked out of the league (for other reasons) and the new owner came into the league with the goal of turning last years team into at least a playoff team.

He made a ton of moves, and before the season started ended up making some crazy trades, which turned out insanely in his favor. One of them was swapping Vernon Davis + idp for Gronk. This was before the season so at the time, VD was generally seen as the better TE.

Needlessto say, with Gronk + Brady combo, and the late season emergence of Reggie Bush and CJ Spiller, he ended up winning it all (beating me 215.7 - 213.84), and I ended up with the 1.12, instead of the sure 1.1 like everyone had thought at the time.

 
My only dyno in which all rookies are available (my other allows you to stash 10 college players to be kept when they declare) doesn't really have any weak links so I just assume the pick I'm acquiring is #6.

I traded my #1 last year (#7) for this year's #1 and last year's #3 because I liked this class much, much more. That's what I usually use to determine whether to trade for future picks or not.

 
'BuckeyeArt said:
'gianmarco said:
'Donsmith753 said:
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
Yep. It's fun.In fact, when league mates like to do some smack talk about how their team is better, I'll offer up my 1st for theirs. I've often had those rejected :)
Offer sent. :D
Mine too :excited:
That sounds like fun. Put their money where their mouth is.
 
In 2011, I sent a 2012 1st rounder for Mike Vick. On paper my team looked pretty solid.

Lost Charles and Britt to injury. After hyper ventilating for a bit. I worked the waiver wire as hard as I could. Still ended up making the playoffs. So it can be dangerous to be too certain of the chances of a playoff or non-playoff team.

I think these types of trades are easier with a "super team" where you can absorb some risk, less able to do so with a poor team. It's the appeal of upside vs certainty of assets. Only invest if your portfolio can take a hit. IMO.

 
Easier to trade for future 1st rd picks in April when you think a pick will be a good one than it is in December when you know it's a good one.

 
Easier to trade for future 1st rd picks in April when you think a pick will be a good one than it is in December when you know it's a good one.
Fair point, no doubt. -What do you think about trying to acquire what you/the league generally sees as a future mid first rd pick?
 
Easier to trade for future 1st rd picks in April when you think a pick will be a good one than it is in December when you know it's a good one.
Fair point, no doubt. -What do you think about trying to acquire what you/the league generally sees as a future mid first rd pick?
Depends what you're giving up of course. Those predicted mid first rd picks can swing either way. It's a gamble and you have to decide whether it's worth taking. If your team is already strong you can gamble more.
 
Easier to trade for future 1st rd picks in April when you think a pick will be a good one than it is in December when you know it's a good one.
I'd say August, but the point remains the same. Everyone thinks their rook's will be studs in August during training camp or that their veterans will stay healthy or their sleepers will explode. The excitement that comes with the start of the season leads to more trading and more risk taking.I find this time of year too many owners are checked out or taking their time to evaluate things in no rush and in general thinking much more longterm so they are unwilling to part with future 1st rounders as easily.
 
'Donsmith753 said:
'mlball77 said:
'Donsmith753 said:
Anyone else trade firsts from next year with people in their league as a sort of bet...
I've never done this, but I recall once an owner saying he would trade his first next year for the first (next year) of any other team in the league, straight up. He was apparently very confident in his team. An interesting and bold move.
I would love to do this, don't think anyone would take me up on it though.
Alot of chatter in our league, and I offer it up all the time/ Especially to one rose colored owner who always thinks this is his teams year and mine is in decline. But he never takes it.
 

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