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Adrian Peterson, retired (3 Viewers)

Sabertooth said:
I'll give you that Adrian was a better athlete.  But his key fumbles in big games are a huge weakness.  
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Peterson wasn't perfect, I'd probably have him outside the top-10 of all-time, but that is some pretty huge nitpicking. I can really only think of 2 major fumbles in Peterson's career, and neither of those swung the the game. they still beat Seattle in 2016(in the coldest game in NFL history) if Walsh makes a gimme FG, and they still beat NO in 2010(a game Peterson had 120 yards and 3 TD's in), if Favre doesn't throw that horrible across the field INT. So really, I'm not sure any of Peterson's fumbles were that huge of a deal. 

Walter Payton was annually among the fumble leaders, and he's universally considered a top-3 RB of all time. Much rather have guys who took over games and occasionally made mistakes, than good players who didn't make mistakes.

 
travdogg said:
Peterson's situation most mirrors Ricky Williams though. Both guys for various reasons were basically coming off a stretch of very little usage whether it be from injury or suspensions, and they both were set to split time with former 1st round picks, that the coaching staffs were seemingly getting frustrated by.
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That near-1,400-yard stat line of his looks appealing, but it needs to be pointed out that in that 2009 season, "former 1st-round pick" Ronnie Brown got the clear majority of the workload from jump. Williams only became the lead back by default (putting up 2/3 of his rush yards) after Week 9, when Brown went down for the season.

I could see a very similar situation playing out for the Saints this year, with the caveat that they'll likely run the ball about 100 fewer times than the '09 Dolphins did - further reducing AP's fantasy value in the absence of an Ingram injury.

 
travdogg said:
Peterson wasn't perfect, I'd probably have him outside the top-10 of all-time, but that is some pretty huge nitpicking. I can really only think of 2 major fumbles in Peterson's career, and neither of those swung the the game. they still beat Seattle in 2016(in the coldest game in NFL history) if Walsh makes a gimme FG, and they still beat NO in 2010(a game Peterson had 120 yards and 3 TD's in), if Favre doesn't throw that horrible across the field INT. So really, I'm not sure any of Peterson's fumbles were that huge of a deal. 

Walter Payton was annually among the fumble leaders, and he's universally considered a top-3 RB of all time. Much rather have guys who took over games and occasionally made mistakes, than good players who didn't make mistakes.
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Not really.  Fumbles are huge.  Three in one game is laughably bad.  That they came in the NFCC game is just historically bad.  They were much better than the Saints that year.  Peterson dropped the ball.  

 
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Sabertooth said:
Not really.  Fumbles are huge.  How many yards is a fumble worth if it loses you your best shot at winning in the playoffs?  
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But they didn't was the point, those games should have been won despite those 2 fumbles, and even then that is 2 games in a 10 year career. 

Fumbles are completely acceptable if they are complimented by a ton of big plays. For every fumble Peterson had, he had about 350 yards and 2-3 TDs. That is 100% acceptable. 

 
travdogg said:
But they didn't was the point, those games should have been won despite those 2 fumbles, and even then that is 2 games in a 10 year career. 

Fumbles are completely acceptable if they are complimented by a ton of big plays. For every fumble Peterson had, he had about 350 yards and 2-3 TDs. That is 100% acceptable. 
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No.  There's a reason he's got a total of one playoff win in his career.

 
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Sabertooth said:
No.  There's a reason he's got a total of one playoff win in his career.
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Because a RB can only carry mediocre teams with bad coaching so far. I mean, Barry Sanders had only one career playoff win too.

ETA: Dickerson only had 2 playoff wins, OJ Simpson had 0.

 
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travdogg said:
Because a RB can only carry mediocre teams with bad coaching so far. I mean, Barry Sanders had only one career playoff win too.
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Adrian isn't as good as Barry either.  And that's the thing.  Adrian didn't carry the Vikings into the playoffs.  Brett did.  Adrian lost the game for them.  

 
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Sabertooth said:
Adrian isn't as good as Barry either.  And that's the thing.  Adrian didn't carry the Vikings into the playoffs.  Brett did.  Adrian lost the game for them.  
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Agree, Peterson isn't as good as Sanders. 

Favre, while I agree was more important during the season, was more responsible for that loss than Peterson was. He had 2 INT's, 1 being a throw that had a near 0% chance of success. Also that was one season with good QB play in Peterson's entire career. Teddy Bridgewater is the 2nd best QB Peterson has ever played with. Playing with Brees might be a FAR bigger deal than anyone thinks.

 
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ADP played in 5 playoff games. 

His first, against the Eagles in 2008 he put up 20/83 and 2 TD's His QB? Tarvaris Jackson who went 15/35 for 164, 0 TD's and a pick. And the WR's on that team were  :X

His second game was 2009. He puts up 63 rushing yards and 19 receiving yards and they win

His third game was the same year. He goes for 122 yards on 25 carries and 3 TD's. He also has the 2 fumbles

His fourth game wasn't until 2012 where he has 99 yards on 22 carries. Joe Webb went 11/30 and 180 yards, a TD and a pic

His last game was 2015 where he went for a measly 45 yards on 23 carries and a fumble. The QB, Bridgewater went 17/24 for 146 and 0 TD's and picks.

1st loss, QB was terrible. Second loss, he puts up 122 and 3. Third loss, QB was horrendous. Fourth loss, QB was awful 

I don't think we can saddle the RB for those losses. 

 
Really, I think this could be very effective. And I believe AP's receiving will be improved, just a hunch but when Brees works with receivers he works with them.

 
Sabertooth said:
Adrian isn't as good as Barry either.  And that's the thing.  Adrian didn't carry the Vikings into the playoffs.  Brett did.  Adrian lost the game for them.  
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AP didn't lose that Saints game.....and Favre's interception late was a desperation late heave that didn't cost them the game either.  What cost them the game was Childress' inept coaching ability and allowing 12 men in the huddle coming out of a timeout when the Vikes were barely in FG range.  That is what cost them the game late.  If they just have a normal play and do something safe the Vikes kick a FG and win in regulation.  Childress was terrible.     

 
Gally said:
AP didn't lose that Saints game.....and Favre's interception late was a desperation late heave that didn't cost them the game either.  What cost them the game was Childress' inept coaching ability and allowing 12 men in the huddle coming out of a timeout when the Vikes were barely in FG range.  That is what cost them the game late.  If they just have a normal play and do something safe the Vikes kick a FG and win in regulation.  Childress was terrible.     
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Three fumbles right?

 
TheFanatic said:
1st loss, QB was terrible. Second loss, he puts up 122 and 3. Third loss, QB was horrendous. Fourth loss, QB was awful 

I don't think we can saddle the RB for those losses. 
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I've been following this conversation (and really I'm pretty positive about AP's fit with NO0, but I think the bigger takeaway here (Saber I think does have a point, AP scored 3 TDs in that game but he also had those key fumbles) is that AP has played 10 seasons and maybe has had 1-2 with excellent QB play.

He's played with one top 10 offense in his career, that 2009 season. The Saints are top 10 every year under Payton and frequently top 2. I have no idea if it's too late for him health/age wise, we will find out. We know he has the determination, and how. But if he is healthy, this is his best opportunity since that 2009 season.

 
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Sabertooth said:
Three fumbles right?
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AP had two fumbles (lost 1).  Favre accounted for more turnovers on the day, however the single biggest reason the Vikes lost that day was due to the ineptitude of Brad Childress.  He was a terrible head  coach.  How can you allow a 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout when you are in FG range to win the game to go to the Super Bowl.  Terrible.          

 
Gally said:
AP had two fumbles (lost 1).  Favre accounted for more turnovers on the day, however the single biggest reason the Vikes lost that day was due to the ineptitude of Brad Childress.  He was a terrible head  coach.  How can you allow a 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout when you are in FG range to win the game to go to the Super Bowl.  Terrible.          
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https://youtu.be/urF-RBgKRPs

 
The Saints have been working on Adrian Peterson's pass-catching ability in OTAs.

As the Minneapolis Star-Tribune's Matt Vensel points out, this was a common offseason storyline for Peterson with the Vikings. Peterson has topped 30 receptions just once since 2010, and the Saints have better receiving backs in Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara and Travaris Cadet. Peterson's usage won't change much in New Orleans.

 
 
Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune 
May 25 - 3:55 PM
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Gally said:
AP had two fumbles (lost 1).  Favre accounted for more turnovers on the day, however the single biggest reason the Vikes lost that day was due to the ineptitude of Brad Childress.  He was a terrible head  coach.  How can you allow a 12 men in the huddle penalty coming out of a timeout when you are in FG range to win the game to go to the Super Bowl.  Terrible.          
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I miss Chilly.  I miss the Chilly Report.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Dude (as in AP), STHU. Yes, you have the requisite equipment for ball catching - a pair of hands. It's not bad coaching or QB that stunted your involvement in the passing game. 

Just wait until Sean Payton starts jacking with the RB depth chart and load distribution. AP is going to complain like a teenager asked to clean his room.
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Will Payton bust out the switch if he does?

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Dude (as in AP), STHU. Yes, you have the requisite equipment for ball catching - a pair of hands. It's not bad coaching or QB that stunted your involvement in the passing game. 

Just wait until Sean Payton starts jacking with the RB depth chart and load distribution. AP is going to complain like a teenager asked to clean his room.
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That doesn't go over well with the Saints. He'll sit. However I have a feeling Payton will love Peterson if he has his wheels.

 
Adrian Peterson wants to surpass 500 receiving yards this season.

Peterson's best single-season total was 436 yards playing with Brett Favre in 2009, and he thinks getting to work with Drew Brees will allow him to set a new personal best. The problem is the Saints have two backs -- Mark Ingram and Alvin Kamara -- who are better in the passing game than Peterson and project to take on most of the receiving work. Peterson is full of confidence as usual, however, and coach Sean Payton said he does not think the veteran has lost a step. With Peterson sure to be the subject of many puff pieces in training camp, his ADP is likely to get out of control in the very near future.

Source: Bleacher Report 

Jul 11 - 10:42 AM
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I never understand why some players don't set realistic goals... 

Maybe they do and this is all for show, just to get people talking about them
 

 
Dr. Dan said:
I never understand why some players don't set realistic goals... 

Maybe they do and this is all for show, just to get people talking about them
 
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It's better than him saying, "I'm not good at catching the ball so I will settle for whatever I can get."

 
Sure is a quiet place for one of the best runners in NFL history playing with a HOF QB on the best offense of the last decade. 

 
New Orleans homers, there seems to be no reports at all except for Norv Turner saying he saw Peterson practicing thinks that he will have a big year. Where is the news? Why isn't he playing? He's practicing, right?

 
Ilov80s said:
How do you know that?
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--Teams generally don't part with franchise/HOF players until they're done - usually a year too late, if anything, so they don't alienate the fan base.  MINN didn't cut him through the child abuse stuff because he could still play.  Declining his option indicates they think he's done.

--He ended up signing a contract worth RB25 money which indicates every other team thought he's done, too.  And even that money is HEAVILY tied to incentives for games played, rushing totals, and touchdowns scored. The team most high on him and willing to give him a contract think there's a good chance he could be done as well, having only $2.5M signing bonus tied up in him for sure...which is very little for the NFL. 

--NO runs 3-4 different backs through touches.  Last year, in a game where Ingram was dominating, they gave 3 rushing TDs inside the 1 yard line, in one game, to John Kuhn.  Even if AP does magically get his groove back, that backfield is a land mine for fantasy value.

--He can talk all he wants about catching balls but that was never a big part of his game and it's not going to start at age 32.

 Wasted pick any earlier than the 6th round in PPR, imo.  I won't consider him until the 7th.  In non-PPR I would consider him in the 5th.

 
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Ilov80s said:
New Orleans homers, there seems to be no reports at all except for Norv Turner saying he saw Peterson practicing thinks that he will have a big year. Where is the news? Why isn't he playing? He's practicing, right?
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Been plenty of practice reports.

Word early was he looked great but those were non-contact drills.

Last week they held joint practices with the Chargers and he made several nice runs that had Saints beat writers saying how impressive he looked, I believe he was even described as looking like the best player on the Saints offense on a day they otherwise got destroyed by the Chargers defense.

 
Phenomena said:
--Teams generally don't part with franchise/HOF players until they're done - usually a year too late, if anything, so they don't alienate the fan base.  MINN didn't cut him through the child abuse stuff because he could still play.  Declining his option indicates they think he's done.
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Without getting into whether or not Peterson is done, or if the Vikes think he is, wasn't the option for close to $15MM. It's not surprising they did not pick that up.

 
Phenomena said:
--Teams generally don't part with franchise/HOF players until they're done - usually a year too late, if anything, so they don't alienate the fan base.  MINN didn't cut him through the child abuse stuff because he could still play.  Declining his option indicates they think he's done.

--He ended up signing a contract worth RB25 money which indicates every other team thought he's done, too.  And even that money is HEAVILY tied to incentives for games played, rushing totals, and touchdowns scored. The team most high on him and willing to give him a contract think there's a good chance he could be done as well, having only $2.5M signing bonus tied up in him for sure...which is very little for the NFL. 

--NO runs 3-4 different backs through touches.  Last year, in a game where Ingram was dominating, they gave 3 rushing TDs inside the 1 yard line, in one game, to John Kuhn.  Even if AP does magically get his groove back, that backfield is a land mine for fantasy value.

--He can talk all he wants about catching balls but that was never a big part of his game and it's not going to start at age 32.

 Wasted pick any earlier than the 6th round in PPR, imo.  I won't consider him until the 7th.  In non-PPR I would consider him in the 5th.
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Yeah his ADP on FF Calc is late 4th/early 5th. That's too expensive. However in mocks, I often see him at the 6/7 turn and think it's a decent pick. 

 
matttyl said:
I can't see how, without an injury to either, either of them is going to be much of a value, though.  What WRs are going in that range?
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One of them likely will return value - but it's too risky trying to pick which one imo. If I had to take one, Ingram would be the easy decision between those two, but frankly with Kamara also likely being involved, no thanks. 

 
matttyl said:
I can't see how, without an injury to either, either of them is going to be much of a value, though.  What WRs are going in that range?
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Diggs, Garcon and Desean were the WRs taken after him in the last one.  You think they just cancel each other completely? Saints are always among the highest scoring backfields. It makes sense to me to get a piece. 

 
Phenomena said:
--Teams generally don't part with franchise/HOF players until they're done - usually a year too late, if anything, so they don't alienate the fan base.  MINN didn't cut him through the child abuse stuff because he could still play.  Declining his option indicates they think he's done.

--He ended up signing a contract worth RB25 money which indicates every other team thought he's done, too.  And even that money is HEAVILY tied to incentives for games played, rushing totals, and touchdowns scored. The team most high on him and willing to give him a contract think there's a good chance he could be done as well, having only $2.5M signing bonus tied up in him for sure...which is very little for the NFL. 

--NO runs 3-4 different backs through touches.  Last year, in a game where Ingram was dominating, they gave 3 rushing TDs inside the 1 yard line, in one game, to John Kuhn.  Even if AP does magically get his groove back, that backfield is a land mine for fantasy value.

--He can talk all he wants about catching balls but that was never a big part of his game and it's not going to start at age 32.

 Wasted pick any earlier than the 6th round in PPR, imo.  I won't consider him until the 7th.  In non-PPR I would consider him in the 5th.
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I won't claim that I know what will happen here, but I will point out:

Emmitt Smith was productive for a little bit after he left the Cowboys.

Considering dollars and off the field stuff, the Vikings let him go test the market and he found a suitor.

The Vikings o line was trash for the last two years.

Peterson has proven himself super human on multiple occasions throughout his career.

Put it this way: would you bet your life that Peterson is definitively done?  I wouldn't.  

I think he has more in the tank than Arian Foster had when he went to Miami last year, that much is clear.

So there's a chance.  Picking him up as a flier makes a lot of sense on that basis.

 
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