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Alex Smith to the Redskins. wow! (1 Viewer)

MikeApf said:
A sup-plot to all of this is how the Chiefs will do with Patrick Mahomes.  While most of the Internet is trolling the Redskins for foolish moves, I've not really heard much commentary regarding the Chiefs, a team that is certainly built to compete NOW.  Yes, they choked it in the playoffs last year, but they did make the playoffs and have the team to make another run this year.  With Smith, you could really count on that run. With Mahomes, maybe you will get it but we don't really know for sure. Maybe they felt that Mahomes was going to start this year or next anyway...might as well get some assets.  Still, it is a bit of a gamble for them as well.  Remember early in the season folks had that team listed as Top 5 in Power Rankings.  Back then, Smith was considered a very capable QB...so not a stretch to say he could have one or two more good years in him...
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Alex Smith is who we all know that he is.....a decent QB that can win you 10 or so games, make the playoffs, but can't take your team all the way.  Do the Chiefs want to continue that?   Might as well take a step back and develop Mahomes and hope he's the real deal so the Chiefs can take two steps forward....closer to being a Super Bowl contender.

That's the gamble the Chiefs are making....and I support it.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Some really diverse and interesting opinions.

I see wins on both sides, as well as for Cousins.

WAS clearly does not see Cousins as a franchise QB, so they were not willing to pay him long term like one.  I can’t say that I can argue with that decision.  So they swapped out tagging Cousins at a massive number for a significantly lower number with Smith, who arguably gives WAS pretty much what they had with Cousins.  They gave up a 3rd rounder and a young CB who was struggling to get security at the QB position and now can use a little lower pick to get a QB who they can groom behind Smith. 

KC now clears the way for Mahomes and gets Smith off the books, gains a 3rd rounder, and if they can turn Fuller into anything useful get a bonus beside.  Smith is not a Reid QB and they went probably as far as they could with him.  If Mahomes falls flat this could end up being a disaster for the franchise but KC has had a year to look at him and clearly like what they see. 

Cousins now gets to go into a QB needy market and will command some very serious long term dollars.  I don’t happen to think he’ll be worth what he eventually gets paid, but if there is a team with almost everything else in place but a solid middling QB it could work perfectly.  

I think the real downfall on this deal may be Cousins’ future team.  Odds are they are going to pay him like he has Brady/Rodgers value and get Smith performance for their contract.  I can see Cousins getting awed by the numbers and going to a team that doesn’t have enough pieces around him, with it ending up looking like a pretty poor choice despite remaining middling and getting exactly what he has shown to date.  He’ll still get paid, but he may not move a franchise forward like you would expect for the dollars he’ll get and cap space he’ll consume.

3 winners, one potential loser IMO.

.
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Fuller was rated the #6 CB last year, not sure where you are getting anything contrary to that. 

 
travdogg said:
As funny as that would be, it would have to be a hell of a ransom, since Cousins will likely cost 25 million a year more than Mahomes. Also, in the Chiefs eyes, Mahomes>Cousins even if they were the same price.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think Washington might have done ok here. Its entirely possible that Cousins is merely a solid QB, who Gruden guided to good numbers, much like Andy Dalton. I think Smith might be an equal or perhaps even better QB than Cousins right now, and he's certainly cheaper. Cousins could get close to 30 million annually. he's almost a certainly going to be the NFL's highest paid player. Just hate that they dealt Fuller, who was arguably their best DB going forward.

Entirely possible this is a win-win deal.
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This is my thinking. I didn't realize people liked Cousins that much here. I've never been that impressed with him. However, $23.5M/year, if true, seems pretty high for Smith. I'm guessing Cleveland is to blame for this. Without CLE running up the bid, I think Washington could've gotten him for a lot less (trade value and contract value). But I suspect this is like a fantasy auction leagues where two of the bottom tier managers are in a bidding war against each other.

Either way, Alex Smith isn't OLD yet. His playing style should result in no significant drop off over the next 4-5 years. We also don't know how the contract was structured, so they might have an out after 2-3 years. When comparing him to Cousins (only 4 years younger), he takes less chances which results in fewer turnovers. He showed he's more than just a dink and dunker this year, though. Overall, I don't think this was a total dud for Washington. But I also don't think they've got a good enough team to surround Smith with. They'll probably still be mediocre next year.

rascal said:
Chiefs made out like bandits.  No idea what Washington is thinking.
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I touched on it above, but I think Cleveland is to blame. For some reason both teams seemed to have tunnel vision which was focused on Alex Smith and it appears they got into a bidding war. There's no other way to explain trading so much and giving such a nice contract extension. The Chiefs got lucky. Washington probably overpaid, but at least they didn't sink crazy money into Cousins. 

It sucks because I think Alex Smith would've been a good fit in Cleveland. I was really curious how that was going to pan out. Corey Coleman could've been his Tyreek Hill and Njoku could've been his Kelce. 

 
travdogg said:
Random thought, but with Shurmur gone and all 3 Vikings QB's having various question marks, is it out of the question Minnesota makes a run at Cousins? From a team standpoint, you'd think that would be the most desirable option, as they are a Super Bowl contender right now.
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Not if they make Cousins the highest paid player in football they are not. Vikings would be smart to keep one or two of their own guys and to invest in their offensive line.

 
Nobody is going to make Cousins the highest paid QB....I think Cousins even realizes that...He most probably will take less just knowing he no longer has to put up with the dysfunctional foreskins..

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I would submit they were held captive by their uncertainty and cheapness, not by Cousins.  They made their own bed and then they had to sleep in it.
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Imagine actually buying the Snyder/Bruce Allen line that they...THEY were being held hostage by Kirk Cousins. Amazing what people will buy into. 

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
I would submit they were held captive by their uncertainty and cheapness, not by Cousins.  They made their own bed and then they had to sleep in it.
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The redskins offered Cousins a very similar deal to what they're giving Smith last year. He chose to play on the franchise tag and refused to negotiate. He even said recently that if he was tagged again, he'd just play with the tag. 

It sucks that they had to give up Fuller but resigning Cousins was not an option at this point. I think they did they best they could given the current circumstances. 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Nobody is going to make Cousins the highest paid QB....I think Cousins even realizes that...He most probably will take less just knowing he no longer has to put up with the dysfunctional foreskins..
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Highly disagree, Stafford got 5 years 135M and 91M guaranteed over the first 3 years last year and is currently the highest paid QB. Cousins deal will likely eclipse that easily as he is a FA as opposed to resigning with his current team and the cap is projected to go up another 6.5% or $11 million this year. Plus all of these teams will likely be interested in Cousins or at least kick the tires possibly leading to a bidding war: Arizona, Denver, Buffalo, the New York Jets, Minnesota, and Cleveland. The last 3 are among the top 6 teams in terms of most available cap space in the league.

Cousins may not have the highest deal for long though, Brees needs an extension and Garrapolo, Ryan & possibly Rodgers may get extensions this offseason. Likely it will come down to who is the last person to sign their new deal, although if Rodgers gets an extension it would probably be the biggest and set the standard for new contracts.

 
shadyridr said:
Oh boy another 5 years of Alex Smith!
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Granted, that is not something greatly ideal, but my point was he could still perform at a high level given today's state of the NFL.  I think he gets a bad rap.  He's mobile and can still fling it deep, when allowed.

 
FF Ninja said:
This is my thinking. I didn't realize people liked Cousins that much here. I've never been that impressed with him. However, $23.5M/year, if true, seems pretty high for Smith. I'm guessing Cleveland is to blame for this. Without CLE running up the bid, I think Washington could've gotten him for a lot less (trade value and contract value). But I suspect this is like a fantasy auction leagues where two of the bottom tier managers are in a bidding war against each other.

Either way, Alex Smith isn't OLD yet. His playing style should result in no significant drop off over the next 4-5 years. We also don't know how the contract was structured, so they might have an out after 2-3 years. When comparing him to Cousins (only 4 years younger), he takes less chances which results in fewer turnovers. He showed he's more than just a dink and dunker this year, though. Overall, I don't think this was a total dud for Washington. But I also don't think they've got a good enough team to surround Smith with. They'll probably still be mediocre next year.

I touched on it above, but I think Cleveland is to blame. For some reason both teams seemed to have tunnel vision which was focused on Alex Smith and it appears they got into a bidding war. There's no other way to explain trading so much and giving such a nice contract extension. The Chiefs got lucky. Washington probably overpaid, but at least they didn't sink crazy money into Cousins. 

It sucks because I think Alex Smith would've been a good fit in Cleveland. I was really curious how that was going to pan out. Corey Coleman could've been his Tyreek Hill and Njoku could've been his Kelce. 
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Would agree, Cleveland is flush with picks and they are all higher than Washington's by 8 selections in the same round. No doubt Cleveland was likely offering their 3rd which is better than Washington's so the Redskins were forced to add something on top to beat out Cleveland.

 
Da Guru said:
Reid should just be a GM and find a coach who can win in the playoffs.
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The Chiefs aren’t in a great position salary cap wise. Hard to disagree with his track record of accumulating talent. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss him as a coach... ya, his clock management skills are put under a microscope because they’ve always been his downfall but he has some playcalls throughout the year that win his teams games that 98% of other coaches wouldn’t have the balls for.

 
So Browns need to draft a qb now with one of those 2 early picks. Right? Theyre not getting cousins, or brees. Tyrod and the minnesota guys arent guys who will get you over the top, so why pay? Im sure they will go full browns tho and do the opposite.

 
Hang 10 said:
The redskins offered Cousins a very similar deal to what they're giving Smith last year. He chose to play on the franchise tag and refused to negotiate. He even said recently that if he was tagged again, he'd just play with the tag. 

It sucks that they had to give up Fuller but resigning Cousins was not an option at this point. I think they did they best they could given the current circumstances. 
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At this point sure, but they got to this point and they did not have too. Their mistake was made more than two years ago. This point in time is just the final accounting on that mistake.

 
Buckna said:
Would agree, Cleveland is flush with picks and they are all higher than Washington's by 8 selections in the same round. No doubt Cleveland was likely offering their 3rd which is better than Washington's so the Redskins were forced to add something on top to beat out Cleveland.
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Confused still.  When can a trade actually occur??  And why did they accept a deal already?  Geeze how long have they been negotiating?

 
Buckna said:
Would agree, Cleveland is flush with picks and they are all higher than Washington's by 8 selections in the same round. No doubt Cleveland was likely offering their 3rd which is better than Washington's so the Redskins were forced to add something on top to beat out Cleveland.
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Why do you think Cleveland was necessarily offering anything?  It is the threat of Cleveland that likely led to this, not necessarily anything they actually did.  I've been saying for awhile now that I think Cleveland is going to go after Cousins as a FA and spend their high draft picks on other positions.  There is a glut of decent QBs that will be available.  Cleveland has already gambled and lost with high QB picks.  This way they get a good starting QB and then can look for a later round 2,3,4 QB to see if they can develop.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
At this point sure, but they got to this point and they did not have too. Their mistake was made more than two years ago. This point in time is just the final accounting on that mistake.
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Agreed but they weren't going anywhere with Cousins anyway. At the end of the day, Smith or Cousins aren't really moving the needle for an incomplete team. 

 
Pwingles said:
So Browns need to draft a qb now with one of those 2 early picks. Right? Theyre not getting cousins, or brees. Tyrod and the minnesota guys arent guys who will get you over the top, so why pay? Im sure they will go full browns tho and do the opposite.
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Over the top?  Cleveland just needs to get to the middle first.

 
Foosball God said:
Over the top?  Cleveland just needs to get to the middle first.
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theyre in a similar spot as the Jags, IMO

Jags are a competent qb away basically, but full of young talent.

The Browns have talent all over the roster, except at qb. Hue sucks too.

Why aim for the middle when your window for competing is basically 5 years or less?

 
Foosball God said:
Why do you think Cleveland was necessarily offering anything?  It is the threat of Cleveland that likely led to this, not necessarily anything they actually did.  I've been saying for awhile now that I think Cleveland is going to go after Cousins as a FA and spend their high draft picks on other positions.  There is a glut of decent QBs that will be available.  Cleveland has already gambled and lost with high QB picks.  This way they get a good starting QB and then can look for a later round 2,3,4 QB to see if they can develop.
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Shortly after the news broke last night Mary Kay Cabot reported that the Browns had also tried to trade for Smith but he went to the Redskins instead. Edit: Also Browns Dorsey was the GM in KC who traded for Smith from the 49ers back in the day.

 
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Buckna said:
Shortly after the news broke last night Mary Kay Cabot reported that the Browns had also tried to trade for Smith but he went to the Redskins instead.
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OK, one source.  So maybe, but still pretty tenuous imo.  Not to say this couldn't be the case, but I'm less on the bumbling Browns pov at this point.  They have too much draft capital and too much free money for this to be a real issue unless they didn't really want him or Alex told them flat out he wouldn't play there.

 
MikeApf said:
A sup-plot to all of this is how the Chiefs will do with Patrick Mahomes.  While most of the Internet is trolling the Redskins for foolish moves, I've not really heard much commentary regarding the Chiefs, a team that is certainly built to compete NOW.  Yes, they choked it in the playoffs last year, but they did make the playoffs and have the team to make another run this year.  With Smith, you could really count on that run. With Mahomes, maybe you will get it but we don't really know for sure. Maybe they felt that Mahomes was going to start this year or next anyway...might as well get some assets.  Still, it is a bit of a gamble for them as well.  Remember early in the season folks had that team listed as Top 5 in Power Rankings.  Back then, Smith was considered a very capable QB...so not a stretch to say he could have one or two more good years in him...
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KC definitely needs to add a veteran backup QB. Can't have just the inexperienced Mahomes with Tyler Bray backing him up. Plus they lost OC Nagy, so can Eric Bieniemy make the jump from RB Coach to OC ?

 
Pwingles said:
theyre in a similar spot as the Jags, IMO

Jags are a competent qb away basically, but full of young talent.

The Browns have talent all over the roster, except at qb. Hue sucks too.

Why aim for the middle when your window for competing is basically 5 years or less?
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I really don't see it.  The Jags have a way better defense and pieces than CLE.  I don't see them as a good comparison at all personally.  They just went 0-16, you really think they have a five year window at a championship?

 
Pwingles said:
theyre in a similar spot as the Jags, IMO

Jags are a competent qb away basically, but full of young talent.

The Browns have talent all over the roster, except at qb. Hue sucks too.

Why aim for the middle when your window for competing is basically 5 years or less?
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Hue is a much bigger problem than QB is. He actively coaches against his players strengths, and is arguably the worst coach in NFL history. They could get Tom Brady and they'd still be the cellar dweller of the AFC North.

 
Pwingles said:
in march sometime I think

Its agreed to "in principal" at this time
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Correct, trade can be consummated at the start of the new league year on March 14th after 4pm Eastern.

Coincidentally, that is also the start of FA so we may see the trade consummated and Cousins signing with his new team all at once. However, with the new legal tampering period, we'll probably know where Cousins is going a few days before the 14th.

 
Foosball God said:
I really don't see it.  The Jags have a way better defense and pieces than CLE.  I don't see them as a good comparison at all personally.  They just went 0-16, you really think they have a five year window at a championship?
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There are obvious differences between the two, duh

But with the talent they do have, the contract situations that they are in with those young guys, and the boat load of picks, they could turn things around quickly if they hit on a QB and some other picks/acquisitions.

The 5 year window comment was meant as a general rule. Not specific to the Browns or anyone else. Obviously there are exceptions. Exceptional franchises operate exceptionally. Also the opposite is true. But for most teams, with the way rookie contracts are structured, and the way the salary cap is, you have a chance at 2-3 very good drafts, and then you have to start giving big contracts and losing half your talent, or start completely over.

 
travdogg said:
Hue is a much bigger problem than QB is. He actively coaches against his players strengths, and is arguably the worst coach in NFL history. They could get Tom Brady and they'd still be the cellar dweller of the AFC North.
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I think you are right, that hue/coaching in general/ownership are much bigger problems than any individual player or positional need

 
MikeApf said:
A sup-plot to all of this is how the Chiefs will do with Patrick Mahomes.  While most of the Internet is trolling the Redskins for foolish moves, I've not really heard much commentary regarding the Chiefs, a team that is certainly built to compete NOW.  Yes, they choked it in the playoffs last year, but they did make the playoffs and have the team to make another run this year.  With Smith, you could really count on that run. With Mahomes, maybe you will get it but we don't really know for sure. Maybe they felt that Mahomes was going to start this year or next anyway...might as well get some assets.  Still, it is a bit of a gamble for them as well.  Remember early in the season folks had that team listed as Top 5 in Power Rankings.  Back then, Smith was considered a very capable QB...so not a stretch to say he could have one or two more good years in him...
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Not that this is a great source or anything, but a buddy of mine lives in KC and is friends with a guy in the organization. That guy insists that Mahomes is extremely well thought of by KC, like Aaron Rodgers type of upside. He thought the organization wanted to use Mahomes more this year, but weren't expecting Smith to be as good as he was, or the AFC West to be so poor as a whole, so they didn't want to mess with what was working. 

The Chiefs are pretty well balanced, I wouldn't call them built to win now, most of their good players are pretty young still. Hunt, Hill, Peters, Jones are all 25 or under. Kelce, Houston, and Berry still have several years left. Its really just Derrick Johnson who is nearing the end among important players.

 
Foosball God said:
OK, one source.  So maybe, but still pretty tenuous imo.  Not to say this couldn't be the case, but I'm less on the bumbling Browns pov at this point.  They have too much draft capital and too much free money for this to be a real issue unless they didn't really want him or Alex told them flat out he wouldn't play there.
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Smith apparently made it know yesterday he did not want to go to the Browns.  Since he only had one year left on his current contract I doubt anyone would trade for him without getting him to agree to a new deal.   

 
Snorkelson said:
They have kizer and....um.....that other guy that’s started some games.....4th round reach a few years ago....still can’t remember....
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Not that it matters, Cody Kessler. 

And I firmly believe that if the Browns go into this year with a rookie, Kizer and Kessler, Hue will be fired before the end of the season.

IMHO Kessler is a goner, Browns go after a vet and a rookie, but it may not be at #1 or #4

 
Pwingles said:
theyre in a similar spot as the Jags, IMO

Jags are a competent qb away basically, but full of young talent.

The Browns have talent all over the roster, except at qb. Hue sucks too.

Why aim for the middle when your window for competing is basically 5 years or less?
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Talent all over the roster yet they went 0-16 :lmao: They need A LOT more than QB

Meanwhile Jaguars went to the AFC Championship game. So essentially you are saying the difference between 0-16 and the AFC Championship game is the difference between Kizer & Bortles :lmao:

 
travdogg said:
Not that this is a great source or anything, but a buddy of mine lives in KC and is friends with a guy in the organization. That guy insists that Mahomes is extremely well thought of by KC, like Aaron Rodgers type of upside. He thought the organization wanted to use Mahomes more this year, but weren't expecting Smith to be as good as he was, or the AFC West to be so poor as a whole, so they didn't want to mess with what was working. 

The Chiefs are pretty well balanced, I wouldn't call them built to win now, most of their good players are pretty young still. Hunt, Hill, Peters, Jones are all 25 or under. Kelce, Houston, and Berry still have several years left. Its really just Derrick Johnson who is nearing the end among important players.
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I can understand this thought since Chiefs had able to maximize Alex Smith's abilities and saw results of how far he could take them in the post-season.  This tells me that Chiefs want to start Patrick Mahomes, allowing him to accumulate starter's experience while putting up his growing pains.  They probably would treat him similarly as accomplished by Seahawks with Russell Wilson by surrounding Mahomes with offensive playmakers and defense.  IMHO, acquiring CB Kendall Fuller is quite a coup for Chiefs, fortifying their secondary. 

 
Foosball God said:
Why do you think Cleveland was necessarily offering anything?  It is the threat of Cleveland that likely led to this, not necessarily anything they actually did.  I've been saying for awhile now that I think Cleveland is going to go after Cousins as a FA and spend their high draft picks on other positions.  There is a glut of decent QBs that will be available.  Cleveland has already gambled and lost with high QB picks.  This way they get a good starting QB and then can look for a later round 2,3,4 QB to see if they can develop.
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See - that's just it, they really haven't.  Their QB misses all are later picks.  Weeden, Manziel, Quinn were 1st rounders - but mid-late picks (pick 22 - and none of them were really projected as high picks, I think many saw them as a reach as Goodell was reading them off).  They haven't drafted a QB high this century.

 
As an early Alex Smith defender, Ive noticed a phenomenon where fans of every team tear him to shreds up until their team signs him. 

Smith was mocked while with the 49ers - “small hands”, “can’t throw deep”, etc etc etc. And all he did was play smart, winning football. 

While I would have preferred my team took Rodgers, I’m pretty sure a lot of teams had a chance and passed on him as well.

It will be interesting to see how he does in Washington - I’m more optimistic about Crowder & Doctson given Smith’s consistency compared to Cousins. 

Seems like a good fit. We’ll see. 

 
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