TheFanatic
Footballguy
I guess, but not doing anything in terms of the NFL won't lead to a long tenure there. But still, to mention VD who has done nothing in terms of FFB and not mention Gore is a pretty glaring oversight...
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
All hail the great NECKBEARD! Yaaarrr! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter swidman
- Start date
saintfool
Dead sexy
sholditch
Footballguy
:hitsthenailonthehead:
Staley Da Bear
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
What's more amazing to me is the following:
2005 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton
2006 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton and Griese
2007 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton
2008 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton?
Am I missing something here? Shouldn't this be an area of concern that needs to be addressed? Yet, here we are, in 2008, still deciding between Grossman and Orton.....phenomenal.
2005 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton
2006 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton and Griese
2007 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton
2008 Chicago Bears QB options -- Grossman and Orton?
Am I missing something here? Shouldn't this be an area of concern that needs to be addressed? Yet, here we are, in 2008, still deciding between Grossman and Orton.....phenomenal.
Oh, I agree 100% on the Gore oversight thing.
stevegamer
Footballguy
I understand that he was in over his head then. And they won in spite of him. I think it's very possible that he can be a game manager now. I thought the sidelines shots of Bears-Seahawks were telling. 1 QB was hanging around Hainey (sp?) looking at photos, and also talking to the top D players. 1 was all alone.Rex lost the job with his performance.
-baller
Footballguy
frankly, I would prefer VD to anything the bears have to offer.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Total misinterpretation but sig material nonetheless. Seriously people, type Vernon. The initials don't work as a nickname.
3nOut
Footballguy
Add to the list:Baltimore RavensTennessee TitansHouston TexansSt. Louis Rams (?)Seattle SeahawksOakland Raiders
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Maybe Martz will do something with the guy this year although the track records of both these guys don't lend themselves well to this happening. If VD plays the slot WR then he could be huge. But I see the underneath stuff going to Gore similar to the way Martz used Faulk. And with Gore's bruising running style, and quite frankly this guy seeks out contact rather than avoiding it, dump passes in space will keep Gore on the field...e-baller said:
Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
fixed3nOut said:
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Fixed. The Rams may have SJax holding out but Holt is still a viable option as is Bulger if he can stay upright. I agree with you on the other two. Houston has Andre Johnson, Schaub, Owen Daniels and with a zone blocking scheme I can see someone running the ball well in Houston...Seattle at least has Hass. And he will find someone to catch the ball. And I actually like JJones this year...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Correct. Even though Houston's running game isn't great and Seattle's WR corps appear a mess, neither will be a truly bad defense.I would say the Raiders will be much improved too. Of course, I like McFadden and think that Ronald Curry is about as underrated as they come. Plus Zach Thomas is the league's next great, young TE.
Penguin
Footballguy
They like having a veteran presence at the position
burd
Footballguy
the Bears organization is doing such a disservice to their loyal fans and the players who bust their butts by not making any attempts to improve the QB position.
The powers that be in Chicago should be held accountable for their lack of oversight. they made no attempt to draft a QB that could challenge for the starting position, they made little if no attempts to woo a veteran QB, and now they're going backwards by benching Grossman, who's the closest thing to a legit QB on that team.
I mean, when guys riding the pine like Kurt Warner draw no interest from the Bears while Orton/Grossman bumble and stumble their way through games with no success, the Bears GM should be tossed on his butt. If Lovie is onboard w/ the "let's not upgrade our QB position", then he should be tossed too because this situation is bad and will only get worse.
With the amount of former starters riding the bench or sitting home, guys like Orton should never have a chance at leading a team.
The powers that be in Chicago should be held accountable for their lack of oversight. they made no attempt to draft a QB that could challenge for the starting position, they made little if no attempts to woo a veteran QB, and now they're going backwards by benching Grossman, who's the closest thing to a legit QB on that team.
I mean, when guys riding the pine like Kurt Warner draw no interest from the Bears while Orton/Grossman bumble and stumble their way through games with no success, the Bears GM should be tossed on his butt. If Lovie is onboard w/ the "let's not upgrade our QB position", then he should be tossed too because this situation is bad and will only get worse.
With the amount of former starters riding the bench or sitting home, guys like Orton should never have a chance at leading a team.
Statcruncher
Footballguy
As a lifelong Bears fan this is absolutely the correct move. Grossman has proven he is a Charlie Batch clone. A back-up who can put up big numbers occasionally but is too stupid to quit making the same mistakes over and over. I have no qualms with Grossman staying on as #2.
As for Orton being the starter it's high time we find out what he's got. So far all I've seen is a flustered dink and dunker who makes questionable throws and reads, but let's give him this year to see what he's got. I'm guessing his upper ceiling is probably the same as Grossman, a capable back-up who can win a couple in relief but becomes useless once defenses have tape on him.
If the Bears don't trade for a decent QB during this season they should be accused of collusion. Accordingly the commissioner needs to put them on "computer control" during the 2009 draft and force them to draft QB, QB, QB with their first 3 picks.
On a side note I see this as greatly detrimental to the the Bears D this season even though they looked to be a top 3 defense. With Orton/Grossman starting they will have to deal with excessive INT's that result in short fields and TD's that count against them when they're not even on the field. Given these handicaps I expect them to finish ranked around 10th in fantasy points even though they should be extremely dominate on the field.
As for Orton being the starter it's high time we find out what he's got. So far all I've seen is a flustered dink and dunker who makes questionable throws and reads, but let's give him this year to see what he's got. I'm guessing his upper ceiling is probably the same as Grossman, a capable back-up who can win a couple in relief but becomes useless once defenses have tape on him.
If the Bears don't trade for a decent QB during this season they should be accused of collusion. Accordingly the commissioner needs to put them on "computer control" during the 2009 draft and force them to draft QB, QB, QB with their first 3 picks.
On a side note I see this as greatly detrimental to the the Bears D this season even though they looked to be a top 3 defense. With Orton/Grossman starting they will have to deal with excessive INT's that result in short fields and TD's that count against them when they're not even on the field. Given these handicaps I expect them to finish ranked around 10th in fantasy points even though they should be extremely dominate on the field.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
Fixed. And yeah, this is one of the most monumentally stupid personnel failures by any front office in football over the last three years. It's astounding.They like having a veteran presence stagnance at the position
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Yeah, the $190M or so they shelled out just this off season means they do not pay anyone.
Except for Berrian, every important Bears FA has been extended and/or re-extended before he hit FA. Let's see: Kreutz; Vasher; Tillman; Alex Brown; Urlacher; Mike Brown; Devin Hester; Lance Briggs; Des Clark etc etc
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Bears fans certainly wish it had only been 6 years. The last good Bears QB was Sid Luckman, who retired over 50 years ago.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I think the problem with the Bears is they won a SB with McMahon and got to one with Grossman. It's like they think they can do it with mediocre talent at QB. It can happen. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won SB's as well as Eli. The jury is still out on Eli but the other two were mediocre. But it seems this is the day and age of the QB. Brady, Manning, have had a ton of success. Romo is young but he is on the cusp of taking the Cowboys to the promise land.
TheSoup
Footballguy
Two things I don't understand about this situation...
1. Why is the organization being so stubborn about giving Caleb Hanie a shot at starting? He's CLEARLY looked better than both Rex and Kyle thus far in preseason. You can't argue that he did it against lesser defenses, because Rex and Kyle have both played against 2nd and 3rd string D's too this preseason, and looked terrible. Week 1, Rex looked terrible against 2nd stringers, and Week 2, Kyle looked terrible against 2nd stringers. Hanie has natural pocket presence and has made great touch passes on the move. He's CLEARLY more mobile than either Kyle or Rex, which, let's face it, our line is gonna be terrible this year and we need a mobile quarterback, ala J. Garcia. What else do the Bears have to lose? Seriously.
2. The whole reason behind putting Hester on the field as a WR was so he could stretch the field. Well, Orton's arm sure as hell can't stretch the field. Rex could at least throw the deep ball.
1. Why is the organization being so stubborn about giving Caleb Hanie a shot at starting? He's CLEARLY looked better than both Rex and Kyle thus far in preseason. You can't argue that he did it against lesser defenses, because Rex and Kyle have both played against 2nd and 3rd string D's too this preseason, and looked terrible. Week 1, Rex looked terrible against 2nd stringers, and Week 2, Kyle looked terrible against 2nd stringers. Hanie has natural pocket presence and has made great touch passes on the move. He's CLEARLY more mobile than either Kyle or Rex, which, let's face it, our line is gonna be terrible this year and we need a mobile quarterback, ala J. Garcia. What else do the Bears have to lose? Seriously.
2. The whole reason behind putting Hester on the field as a WR was so he could stretch the field. Well, Orton's arm sure as hell can't stretch the field. Rex could at least throw the deep ball.
sholditch
Footballguy
You answered your own ? in 1. They don't want him getting killed behind our line, because they think, as they always do, that they have gotten a franchise QB on the cheap.
2. I agree, Hester makes little sense out there with Kyle.
The McCaskeys have been spending more lately, I will give them that, but I don't see them shelling out the cash to sign a top FA at QB or anywhere else. Look at the people they have brought in through FA in the past decade. It's basically where old QBs go to die.
Anyway, we all know it doesn't matter who won this battle. Neither QB gives us a decent shot at winning, and we and the Bears have known that for at least a season now, some of us longer than that. Which is what makes bringing them both back this season so shameful for the franchise: they knew by the end of last season that neither one was really good enough to start if they want to win, and they brought them both back anyway. There was nothing in FA this offseason, but still, I have to think they could have at least made a play for a viable backup (Warner, Quinn, Sims) or gone for Favre. When Turner was asked about Favre he replied not interested.
Honestly, we've all watched football, we all consider ourselves talent/performance evaluators to some degree by virtue of playing FF. Does anyone here consider either one even a decent option? I know we're far from experts, but I just don't see how many ways you can skin this cat. They're just awful. Going into this season with only these two as options is pretty close to team suicide.
2. I agree, Hester makes little sense out there with Kyle.
The McCaskeys have been spending more lately, I will give them that, but I don't see them shelling out the cash to sign a top FA at QB or anywhere else. Look at the people they have brought in through FA in the past decade. It's basically where old QBs go to die.
Anyway, we all know it doesn't matter who won this battle. Neither QB gives us a decent shot at winning, and we and the Bears have known that for at least a season now, some of us longer than that. Which is what makes bringing them both back this season so shameful for the franchise: they knew by the end of last season that neither one was really good enough to start if they want to win, and they brought them both back anyway. There was nothing in FA this offseason, but still, I have to think they could have at least made a play for a viable backup (Warner, Quinn, Sims) or gone for Favre. When Turner was asked about Favre he replied not interested.
Honestly, we've all watched football, we all consider ourselves talent/performance evaluators to some degree by virtue of playing FF. Does anyone here consider either one even a decent option? I know we're far from experts, but I just don't see how many ways you can skin this cat. They're just awful. Going into this season with only these two as options is pretty close to team suicide.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
hugebearsfansinceforever
Footballguy
C-Pepp has skillz, but we already have a QB with a nice deep ball but who doesn't see the whole field and has a weakness in picking up the blitz in Grossman.The truth is the FA alternatives out there are no better than Rex Orton. What the Bears need is an O-Line and a OC who game plans around the the strengths of the offensive unit. Calling 5 and 7 step drops is OK when your O-Line can provide adequate protection for Grossman, but when you are facing an aggressive defense, would it hurt to call a screen pass or a quick slant now and then? With this O-Line, Grossman should be in the shotgun on 2nd and 3rd downs.Ron Turner couldn't get it done at Illinois and he has underperformed in his second stint as OC with the Bears. We should have grabbed Cam Cameron or Norm Chow this offseason.
Drafting a few linemen in the early rounds in the last several years would have been a good idea too.
hugebearsfansinceforever
Footballguy
As a Packers fan you may be saying the same thing about Brett Favre in 50 years.CletiusMaximus said:
cstu
Footballguy
Pardon me, I just experienced deju vu.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
If I'm lucky enough to be alive in 50 years, I absolutely expect this to be the case.
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
I always thought Jim McMahon was a good QB for the Bears, with his only downside being that he couldn't stay healthy. But at least with him you wanted him to stay healthy.CletiusMaximus said:
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Really? I could swear both Grossman and Orton have >60% winning %. Can you pull out the win% for both (I am too lazy right now
)?You can argue that with both QBs, we probably will not see a 20+TD season from either one, but to say we will not win is a little premature and in fact, contrary to what the real data speaks for itself. Take the emotion out of the situation and you will see most teams do not have Brady or Manning and still, teams find ways to win. A healthy D & ST can keep us in games, and does not require great QB performances to win. Just ask the Bengals how they have done with their all pro QB, WRs and RB. Or ask the Rams how they have done with their great WRs, RB and QB.Similar threads
