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All in on Matt Flynn (1 Viewer)

Gawain

Footballguy
Now I'm not claiming he's going to be a top-15 QB or anything, but I'm warming up to Flynn as a decent QB2 in start-1 leagues if you have a strong first quarterback, or as a high upside QB3 in 2-QB leagues.

The 2012 Seahawks training camp where he was beat out by Wilson is causing a lot of people to think that he wasn't cut out to be a starter. What has been lost over the past year is how close the competition really was.

Flynn went 28 for 39 for 204 yards, a TD and a pick for a passer rating of 81.6.

Those aren't otherworldly numbers, but Flynn also faced the stronger defensive units in the preseason. Flynn started week 1, while Wilson had better production in the second half. The same thing occurred in the second game, where Flynn played competently (by no means well though) and Wilson lit it up in the second half. Week three was when Wilson ascended to the top of the pecking order against the Chiefs. KC foreshadowed how bad they would be in the regular season by letting the hawks jump on them 30-7 with almost a full half remaining. Flynn was shut down during the second half and only attempted 5 passes, completing 3 of them. Week 4 had Wilson cemented as the opening day starter, while Flynn managed to get in a good half against the Raiders' #2 defense. Much like weeks 1 and 2, the second QB looked much better, with Flynn outplaying Wilson in all aspects of the game. However, the choice for starter had already been made.

I don't think it is impossible that had the situations been reversed (Wilson facing the ones and Flynn the twos in the first two preseason games) that Flynn would have emerged the starter. Flynn didn't look dynamic until the fourth preseason game and by then it was already too late.

Fast-forward to 2013 and we have Flynn coming to the Raiders. The Raiders also draft a QB named Wilson and talks of Flynn's demise begin anew. Unlike 2012, Tyler sounds much less polished than Russell. T. Wilson has reportedly been pushed down the depth chart by heralded newcomer Matt McGloin. Pryor remains locked into the second QB role, but it was pretty apparent from 2012, week 17 and the actions of the front office that no one is ready to give the keys to Pryor. Training camp reports have also been positive about Flynn, claiming he is "cementing" his role as QB1.

Flynn's arm isn't the strongest, but the Raiders should be running a system that requires accuracy (which Flynn does have look at his >70% completion percentage in the 2012 preseason) over arm strength. The competition for his job has failed to materialize and he is playing well enough at the moment to quiet any calls for a free agent. There is a good pass catching back in McFadden to take some pressure off of Flynn. No one is confusing the Raiders wide receivers with the Vikings of 1998, but Moore, Criner, Ford and Streater are all relatively quick. They should perform well for a shorter passing attack based on accuracy which is right in Flynn's wheelhouse. The Raiders also should have an average to below-average defense, forcing the team to score points to win games, instead of keeping the score down like the Seahawks of 2012.

All this causes me to look favorably on Flynn for this year. I also am a believer in dynasty. I think he will play well enough to QB the Raiders for the next few years. I doubt he will ever be a difference maker in a start-1 QB league, but he'd make a very cheap backup and in 2QB leagues he's much cheaper than other starters, with most people still valuing Tyler Wilson over Flynn.

 

Eminence

Footballguy
It comes and ends on who's catching the ball. There's no star receiver in Oakland, nothing even close really. If he's playing Detroit or some other ####ty defense, he might produce like Brady Quinn vs Matt Stafford.

But besides that, there are better options out there, imo. Wouldn't hurt to take a flyer on him though.

 

bonesman

Footballguy
Wilson didn't win the job based on preseaon stats. That's a false premise IMO. He won the job through how he prepared and how he conducted himself in practice.

 

seahawk 17

Footballguy
Wilson worked his ### off and it didn't help that Flynn had elbow issues all pre-season also.

I think Flynn will out play is ADP for sure.

 
I don't like Flynn's situation. He doesn't have a big play maker to help, the running game has been up and down and he could be under duress much of the season.

I think there will be better QB2 options. I would not be happy with him as my QB2 unless I went QB1 early. If I had a low end QB1, having Flynn as my QB2 would be weak IMO.

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
A weak armed QB with an offense full of under developed vertical threats. Square peg, round hole?

Tyler Wilson or Terrell Pryor will be the start come October sometime, if not sooner. My $ would have been on Wilson, but he's already losing reps in camp. Bad sign. I think Pryor gets first crack and if/when it doesn't go well, Wilson will mop up the season. This team isn't playing for 2013.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Now I'm not claiming he's going to be a top-15 QB or anything, but I'm warming up to Flynn as a decent QB2 in start-1 leagues if you have a strong first quarterback, or as a high upside QB3 in 2-QB leagues.

The 2012 Seahawks training camp where he was beat out by Wilson is causing a lot of people to think that he wasn't cut out to be a starter. What has been lost over the past year is how close the competition really was.

Flynn went 28 for 39 for 204 yards, a TD and a pick for a passer rating of 81.6.

Those aren't otherworldly numbers, but Flynn also faced the stronger defensive units in the preseason. Flynn started week 1, while Wilson had better production in the second half. The same thing occurred in the second game, where Flynn played competently (by no means well though) and Wilson lit it up in the second half. Week three was when Wilson ascended to the top of the pecking order against the Chiefs. KC foreshadowed how bad they would be in the regular season by letting the hawks jump on them 30-7 with almost a full half remaining. Flynn was shut down during the second half and only attempted 5 passes, completing 3 of them. Week 4 had Wilson cemented as the opening day starter, while Flynn managed to get in a good half against the Raiders' #2 defense. Much like weeks 1 and 2, the second QB looked much better, with Flynn outplaying Wilson in all aspects of the game. However, the choice for starter had already been made.

I don't think it is impossible that had the situations been reversed (Wilson facing the ones and Flynn the twos in the first two preseason games) that Flynn would have emerged the starter. Flynn didn't look dynamic until the fourth preseason game and by then it was already too late.

Fast-forward to 2013 and we have Flynn coming to the Raiders. The Raiders also draft a QB named Wilson and talks of Flynn's demise begin anew. Unlike 2012, Tyler sounds much less polished than Russell. T. Wilson has reportedly been pushed down the depth chart by heralded newcomer Matt McGloin. Pryor remains locked into the second QB role, but it was pretty apparent from 2012, week 17 and the actions of the front office that no one is ready to give the keys to Pryor. Training camp reports have also been positive about Flynn, claiming he is "cementing" his role as QB1.

Flynn's arm isn't the strongest, but the Raiders should be running a system that requires accuracy (which Flynn does have look at his >70% completion percentage in the 2012 preseason) over arm strength. The competition for his job has failed to materialize and he is playing well enough at the moment to quiet any calls for a free agent. There is a good pass catching back in McFadden to take some pressure off of Flynn. No one is confusing the Raiders wide receivers with the Vikings of 1998, but Moore, Criner, Ford and Streater are all relatively quick. They should perform well for a shorter passing attack based on accuracy which is right in Flynn's wheelhouse. The Raiders also should have an average to below-average defense, forcing the team to score points to win games, instead of keeping the score down like the Seahawks of 2012.

All this causes me to look favorably on Flynn for this year. I also am a believer in dynasty. I think he will play well enough to QB the Raiders for the next few years. I doubt he will ever be a difference maker in a start-1 QB league, but he'd make a very cheap backup and in 2QB leagues he's much cheaper than other starters, with most people still valuing Tyler Wilson over Flynn.
2012 Hawks preseason:

Game 1 Flynn starts and goes 11/13/71/0/1 - but Wilson stole the show, including a 32 yard TD run to seal the win. A rookie QB coming in and playing well in the 2nd half is not unheard of but folks could already see Wilson would be something special (as Badger fans had been saying...).

Game 2 - Flynn starts but his stats (6/12/31/0/0) look far deficient to Wilson, who again went crazy in the 4th quarter - what people forget about that game is that Terrell Owens was still trying to play back then, and he personally had something like 5-6 drops on Flynn, so Flynn should have had a much better game - I remember from the highlights last year that Owens in particular missed a wide open TD pass in the end zone.

Game 3 - Flynn was injured, out

Game 4 - done deal, the Hawks were starting Wilson, period, but Flynn again went 11/13.

Flynn may not be special like Wilson but then he may still be quite good (and at LSU he was a real leader and winner). My biggest concern with the Raiders is the OC, the fact that the running game may again just never take off, they are starting over at TE, and that for two years straight the WRs had injury problems - and of course the line.

 
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Shutout

Footballguy
Now I'm not claiming he's going to be a top-15 QB or anything, but I'm warming up to Flynn as a decent QB2 in start-1 leagues if you have a strong first quarterback, or as a high upside QB3 in 2-QB leagues.

The 2012 Seahawks training camp where he was beat out by Wilson is causing a lot of people to think that he wasn't cut out to be a starter. What has been lost over the past year is how close the competition really was.

Flynn went 28 for 39 for 204 yards, a TD and a pick for a passer rating of 81.6.

Those aren't otherworldly numbers, but Flynn also faced the stronger defensive units in the preseason. Flynn started week 1, while Wilson had better production in the second half. The same thing occurred in the second game, where Flynn played competently (by no means well though) and Wilson lit it up in the second half. Week three was when Wilson ascended to the top of the pecking order against the Chiefs. KC foreshadowed how bad they would be in the regular season by letting the hawks jump on them 30-7 with almost a full half remaining. Flynn was shut down during the second half and only attempted 5 passes, completing 3 of them. Week 4 had Wilson cemented as the opening day starter, while Flynn managed to get in a good half against the Raiders' #2 defense. Much like weeks 1 and 2, the second QB looked much better, with Flynn outplaying Wilson in all aspects of the game. However, the choice for starter had already been made.

I don't think it is impossible that had the situations been reversed (Wilson facing the ones and Flynn the twos in the first two preseason games) that Flynn would have emerged the starter. Flynn didn't look dynamic until the fourth preseason game and by then it was already too late.

Fast-forward to 2013 and we have Flynn coming to the Raiders. The Raiders also draft a QB named Wilson and talks of Flynn's demise begin anew. Unlike 2012, Tyler sounds much less polished than Russell. T. Wilson has reportedly been pushed down the depth chart by heralded newcomer Matt McGloin. Pryor remains locked into the second QB role, but it was pretty apparent from 2012, week 17 and the actions of the front office that no one is ready to give the keys to Pryor. Training camp reports have also been positive about Flynn, claiming he is "cementing" his role as QB1.

Flynn's arm isn't the strongest, but the Raiders should be running a system that requires accuracy (which Flynn does have look at his >70% completion percentage in the 2012 preseason) over arm strength. The competition for his job has failed to materialize and he is playing well enough at the moment to quiet any calls for a free agent. There is a good pass catching back in McFadden to take some pressure off of Flynn. No one is confusing the Raiders wide receivers with the Vikings of 1998, but Moore, Criner, Ford and Streater are all relatively quick. They should perform well for a shorter passing attack based on accuracy which is right in Flynn's wheelhouse. The Raiders also should have an average to below-average defense, forcing the team to score points to win games, instead of keeping the score down like the Seahawks of 2012.

All this causes me to look favorably on Flynn for this year. I also am a believer in dynasty. I think he will play well enough to QB the Raiders for the next few years. I doubt he will ever be a difference maker in a start-1 QB league, but he'd make a very cheap backup and in 2QB leagues he's much cheaper than other starters, with most people still valuing Tyler Wilson over Flynn.
2012 Hawks preseason:

Game 1 Flynn starts and goes 11/13/71/0/1 - but Wilson stole the show, including a 32 yard TD run to seal the win. A rookie QB coming in and playing well in the 2nd half is not unheard of but folks could already see Wilson would be something special (as Badger fans had been saying...).

Game 2 - Flynn starts but his stats (6/12/31/0/0) look far deficient to Wilson, who again went crazy in the 4th quarter - what people forget about that game is that Terrell Owens was still trying to play back then, and he personally had something like 5-6 drops on Flynn, so Flynn should have had a much better game - I remember from the highlights last year that Owens in particular missed a wide open TD pass in the end zone.

Game 3 - Flynn was injured, out

Game 4 - done deal, the Hawks were starting Wilson, period, but Flynn again went 11/13.

Flynn may not be special like Wilson but then he may still be quite good (and at LSU he was a real leader and winner). My biggest concern with the Raiders is the OC, the fact that the running game may again just never take off, they are starting over at TE, and that for two years straight the WRs had injury problems - and of course the line.
The only thing I will add to that timeline just to play the other side of things is that in those two games where Flynn didn't look like a world-beater, he was playing against starters and WIlson was playing against guys that ended up getting cut. Then in that 4th game, Flynn played really well (against the lesser talent). As you said, in that one game with T.O., Flynn could have had monster stats but T.O. let him down and then Wilson comes in and doesn't have to deal with T.O.

I think FLynn will be fine or at least much better than what a lot of people have in their heads. I have spoken to several people back in MAy that were just convinced in their minds that Flynn wouldn't start game 1, so it seems apparent that there are some pretty strong preconceived notions about him, one way or the other.

 

SWC

Bromigo
guys i think flynn is a sleeper he did really well in green bay you may recall without any huge names just a bunch of better than average guys and i think he has good touch and reads ds well which is more than you can say for some guys in the league and as a bonus he generally does not curl up in a baby position when a d player gets near him or he sees someone who plays d like another qb i could name who is ruining a once proud and storied fanchies where the weather is warm take that to the bank brohans

 

Shanahanigans

Footballguy
guys i think flynn is a sleeper he did really well in green bay
I think Flynn is offering good value right now. That said, one thing that has always concerned me was that Joe Philbin, a guy who shaped Flynn and knew exactly what he was due to his extreme familiarity with him, chose not to sign him in Miami despite not having to offer big money to get him. If Philbin believed, he would have signed Flynn to the relatively small-money contract he was demanding. The fact that Philbin passed was a huge red flag for me.

 

Shutout

Footballguy
guys i think flynn is a sleeper he did really well in green bay
I think Flynn is offering good value right now. That said, one thing that has always concerned me was that Joe Philbin, a guy who shaped Flynn and knew exactly what he was due to his extreme familiarity with him, chose not to sign him in Miami despite not having to offer big money to get him. If Philbin believed, he would have signed Flynn to the relatively small-money contract he was demanding. The fact that Philbin passed was a huge red flag for me.
I've given this a lot of thought because when it happened, i had the same line of thinking as you did and I have come to this conclusion:

I think Philbin realizes that Flynn isn't an elite NFL QB and that is no surprise. So, he was left in a position where he can either have "his guy" or he can go with the unknown. Going with the unknown buys him a longer leash as a head coach. If he rolls with Flynn and it doesnt' work (winning, not necessarily things working out with Flynn), then he probably loses his job earlier because the owner would expect that Philbin could get "his guy" going quicker. However, rolling with Tannehil, he basically gets a one-year free pass no matter what. And then, by drafting a rookie QB, most coaches get 2-3 years of development time before public opinion says this guy bombed.

Long story short, I think that decision had every bit as much to do about Philbin's job as it did on what his gut may say is or might be the best player. If someone thought Flynn was the next Aaron Rodgers, that would be different, but then again, if that were the case, Flynn wouldn't likely have been available. I think it is a case where he knew a good to very good, but not elite player was there but also knew the risks that might come with that.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Well I caught the Matt Flynn act this weekend, and wow, not good.

I realize it's 2nd preseason game, and that went as I and others expected, with the Saints using the Raiders as some kind of test dummy to experiment with, but Flynn never had a shot.

He did get Denarius Moore with a nice TD pitch in the front corner of the end zone (after things were out of hand), but it seemed like the Raiders starting O never could get their business together, just a mad scramble the whole time.

Their offensive line especially seems like it's in trouble, and they lost their starting TE (Ausberry), not sure for how long, and even he was basically a backup type.

Very little in the way of deep passes too.

 
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Raiderfan32904

Footballguy
Flynn went 12 of 16 for 124 yards and a TD with no Int's. (120+ QB rating) He also scampered away from a sack and gained 4 yards. The O-line is brutally banged up and it may never be servicable, as his 5 first half sacks can attest. But the deep ball isn't that often used anyway. What's more telling is the TD pass to Denarius Moore where he put it right on the money in the corner of the end zone from about 23 yards out. That's going to be Flynn's bread and butter.

He's not fantasy relevant, but the piling on is a little too much I think.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Flynn went 12 of 16 for 124 yards and a TD with no Int's. (120+ QB rating) He also scampered away from a sack and gained 4 yards. The O-line is brutally banged up and it may never be servicable, as his 5 first half sacks can attest. But the deep ball isn't that often used anyway. What's more telling is the TD pass to Denarius Moore where he put it right on the money in the corner of the end zone from about 23 yards out. That's going to be Flynn's bread and butter.

He's not fantasy relevant, but the piling on is a little too much I think.
Just to be clear, it was a very good drive and a nice TD, Flynn went 6/7/73/1/0 on that drive - but he also took a sack, it was just before half and they were already down 23-0 at that point. The Raiders had had 1 first down before then.

 

Donnybrook

Footballguy
I have Flynn as my back up QB but getting nervous about it after the pre-season games I have seen. I don't believe he will make it through the season if the line can't protect him.

 

stbugs

Footballguy
Flynn went 12 of 16 for 124 yards and a TD with no Int's. (120+ QB rating) He also scampered away from a sack and gained 4 yards. The O-line is brutally banged up and it may never be servicable, as his 5 first half sacks can attest. But the deep ball isn't that often used anyway. What's more telling is the TD pass to Denarius Moore where he put it right on the money in the corner of the end zone from about 23 yards out. That's going to be Flynn's bread and butter.

He's not fantasy relevant, but the piling on is a little too much I think.
Just to be clear, it was a very good drive and a nice TD, Flynn went 6/7/73/1/0 on that drive - but he also took a sack, it was just before half and they were already down 23-0 at that point. The Raiders had had 1 first down before then.
FF wise, the thing he may have going for him is being down 23-0 a lot. The pass to Moore was a really nice TD. Flynn could be a real nice cheap bye week replacement. He's ranked 27th with an ADP of 23.05 in DD for my league scoring, so he is really, really cheap. I don't think I would start him, nor do I think he has a chance of being top 12, i.e. startable, but I would definitely think about him as a really cheap QB2 that I use one week if I have a really solid QB1. Maybe instead of drafting another QB2 in the 9-13th round range, you could pick up a sleeper you like or a second D for DefBC, etc.

 

Daru99

Footballguy
WR corps of D. Moore, Streater and a healthy Ford is decent (Full disclosure: I bleed silver & black).

The problem for Matty will be the OL. As we saw in the Saints pre-season game, Flynn will get pulverised with starting LT Veldheer injured. I see his season ending early and the Terelle Pryor era beginning so Flynn is a risky pick.

And with the 1st pick in the 2014 NFL draft - The Oakland Raiders select....

 

Gawain

Footballguy
Other players I like this year. Wayne Chrebet, Felix Jones, Brady Quinn.

I almost think just throwing Pryor to the wolves might be better with that O line.

 

ImTheScientist

Footballguy
Can't say I didn't warn people Flynn wasn't that good. Raiders are a train wreck this year.

On a positive note....they are going to have a top pick in a draft that looks to have tallent at the top next year.

 

ImTheScientist

Footballguy
Thats cute....all the raider fans sticking together and making things up. Is that really what its come to for that fan base? :shrug:
Someone quoted that post. Are you REALLY gonna make me go find it, or would you just like to admit you're a fraud? I love ITS, he is my favorite.
See what I did there? Its cool if thats the game you want to play. Its the internet, so its expected.

If you want to read about my views on QBs, go here: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=640432

:cool:

 
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DoubleG

Footballguy
Other players I like this year. Wayne Chrebet, Felix Jones, Brady Quinn.

I almost think just throwing Pryor to the wolves might be better with that O line.
:penalty: Your post implies that the Raiders have an offensive line.
Bears fan clowning another teams' O-line is good shtick. Cutler has been playing behind turnstiles for 4 years.
The Bears weren't 4-12 last year guy. The next time the Raiders go 10-6 you can call me out. Otherwise, chill. There's a reason I have you on ignore - this is one of them.

 
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Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
Other players I like this year. Wayne Chrebet, Felix Jones, Brady Quinn.

I almost think just throwing Pryor to the wolves might be better with that O line.
:penalty: Your post implies that the Raiders have an offensive line.
Bears fan clowning another teams' O-line is good shtick. Cutler has been playing behind turnstiles for 4 years.
The Bears weren't 4-12 last year guy. The next time the Raiders go 10-6 you can call me out. Otherwise, chill. There's a reason I have you on ignore - this is one of them.
Reading/replying to my posts kind of defeats the purpose of having me on ignore, guy.

HTH

 

Raiderfan32904

Footballguy
I don't think team record should have anything to do with the fact the Bears O-line has been a running joke for years. It's just calling a spade a spade.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
If you're In with Flynn you might want to grab some Gin.

************

This guy is the opposite of Sanchez, once coaches take a look at him they can't wait to bench him.

 

Joe Summer

Footballguy
Demoted to third-string today! Oof.

(Although part of me thinks it's more of a ploy by the Raiders to avoid a quarterback controversy.)

 

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