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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)

EYLive said:
He has 1.5 really good years but that's not good enough for all time or even all decade teams. Same reason Doncic is a huge reach. 2 years that don't include winning championships just doesn't cut it.
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I don't disagree and it is part of the fun.  I'm just explaining why someone might value Jokic over Love.  At their peak, Jokic runs circles around Love in almost every phase of the game.

Also, Jokic has actually been really good for 2.5 years now, just the last 1.5 have been at MVP levels.

 
EYLive said:
He has 1.5 really good years but that's not good enough for all time or even all decade teams. Same reason Doncic is a huge reach. 2 years that don't include winning championships just doesn't cut it.
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He made the All-NBA 2nd team two seasons ago as well. And the season before that, he averaged 18.5/10.7/6.1 with .603 TS%. Through his six seasons, he was a solid rotation player, solid starter, borderline All-Star, All-NBA 2nd team, All-NBA 1st team, and MVP candidate. 

After this season, he'll have as many or more All-NBA selections than McHale (1), Doncic (probably 2), with 2- Embiid (probably 3 after this year), Worthy, Klay Thompson, Mourning, Kyrie (maybe 3 if he makes it his year), Ginobili, Cousins, Ray Allen, and David Thompson, with 3 - Mutombo, Reggie Miller, Sam Jones, English, Cowens, and Butler. AND in this decade (calling this year the 10s), he'll have as many all NBA teams as any center other than Howard.

 
Yo Mama said:
I’d offer to take a list, but I pick between yours. Maybe someone at the top of the order could help. Otherwise I could text you when you’re up. 
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@scoobus - I could do it.  I'll be online all day with work and am pretty far from you in the draft order (9 picks between us).

Actually if @Desert_Power is willing, an innocent bystander would be best.

 
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Kev4029 said:
After this season, he'll have...
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That's the problem, it hasn't happened. The other all time greats have done it and proved it. Guys being drafted in the first few rounds after only 2-5 years just isn't good enough. Most of us aren't drafting all time greats based on optimistic projections. Kevin Love isn't a HOFer but he's accomplished and proved more than the new guys that are more visible. 

 
EYLive said:
That's the problem, it hasn't happened. The other all time greats have done it and proved it. Guys being drafted in the first few rounds after only 2-5 years just isn't good enough. Most of us aren't drafting all time greats based on optimistic projections. Kevin Love isn't a HOFer but he's accomplished and proved more than the new guys that are more visible. 
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i love Joel Embiid and think he could be a top 10 alltime C, but it wasnt much more than 6 months ago in the bubble that you could wear him off his game and even out of the game making him work for his spot and we're picking him over champions. We are holding not putting together three healthy years against Walton & Grant Hill, then picking guys who havent played three years yet. we wont even mention defense...

 
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EYLive said:
That's the problem, it hasn't happened. The other all time greats have done it and proved it. Guys being drafted in the first few rounds after only 2-5 years just isn't good enough. Most of us aren't drafting all time greats based on optimistic projections. Kevin Love isn't a HOFer but he's accomplished and proved more than the new guys that are more visible. 
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I don't want to keep ####ting on Love, because I don't think it was a bad pick but what has Love proven that Jokic hasn't? I suppose he won a title, but he was either the third best player or possibly even the fourth behind Thompson in that playoff run (he was 5th in win shares behind Thompson and JR Smith). As the best player on the TWolves, he failed to lead the team to a winning record, much less the playoffs. 

Here is a brief comparison of the 10s big me selected so far (I'm throwing Embiid and Jokic an All-NBA nod this season):

Games WS VORP BPM PER All-NBA
Cousins 590 44.9 21.4 2.6 22.2 2
Davis 551 86.3 39.7 6.3 27.3 4
Embiid 239 28.7 12.7 4.9 25.7 3
Howard 660 70.3 17.8 1.5 21.1 4
Jokic 417 57.1 29.8 7.6 25.6 3
Love 574 71.8 29.0 4.0 22.0 3


Gally has Howard in the 00s (which is probably the right call) but then should we be having the same conversation for Howard as he only has 489 games in that decade or any other players that straddle a decade?

Something else to note, is Jokic has been especially healthy thus far in his career which you can't say about any of the other guys on this list.

Just for ####s and giggles, the BB Reference HOF probability of those 6: Cousins 1.51%, Davis 98.51%, Embiid doesn't have enough games to calculate, Howard 99.73%, Jokic 4.17%, Love 73.17%.

 
6.12 Bob McAdoo C 70s 

5x All Star, 3x Scoring Champion, MVP, 2x Champion 

Averaged over 30 points for 3 straight seasons, last player to average 30 and 15 for a season including a league leading 55% FG shooting.

Both he and Kevin Durant have spoken a bit how they were basically the same player and had such similar bodies and playing styles. McAdoo was probably the first big man to excel at the outside shot. He had a very awkward shot but it was unblockable and he rarely missed. His ball handling was closer to a guard than a center. He had both an incredible peak and good longevity. Most of his best years he played center but he’s more of a forward for pantheon team purposes. 
 

His 3 season at ages 22-24 were elite as he averaged: 32 points, 14 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 2.5 blocks with 51% FG shooting. 

 
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For my pantheon 6th man, I was looking at a couple of directions, but I am pleased that this guy fell to me and think he is great value at this spot as the best pure scorer left on the board and a guy who can generate instant offense off the bench:

6.13 - Adrian Dantley - SF 80's

ROY, 2x All-NBA, 6x All-star, HOFer and 2 x Scoring Champ with career averages of 24.3 pts, 5.7 rbs, 3.0 asst.

Dantley was a SOB throughout his career, bounced from team to team, suffered a couple of untimely injuries and was never able to win a title.  But what he ALWAYS did was score points.  Averaged over 30 ppg each season for 4 straight years.  His best statistical years were with Utah, but the best team he was on was Detroit, who traded him away after losing to LA in 1988, right before winning 2 straight championships.  I wouldn't want him to lead my team, but he will be a phenomenal scorer off the bench.

 
Ilov80s said:
6.12 Bob McAdo C 70s 

5x All Star, 3x Scoring Champion, MVP, 2x Champion 

Averaged over 30 points for 3 straight seasons, last player to average 30 and 15 for a season including a league leading 55% FG shooting.

Both he and Kevin Durant have spoken a bit how they were basically the same player and had such similar bodies and playing styles. McAdoo was probably the first big man to excel at the outside shot. He had a very awkward shot but it was unblockable and he rarely missed. His ball handling was closer to a guard than a center. No doubt if there was a  He had both an incredible peak and good longevity. Most of his best years he played center but he’s more of a forward for pantheon team purposes. 
 

His 3 season at ages 22-24 were elite as he averaged: 32 points, 14 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 2.5 blocks with 51% FG shooting. 
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that's a good one, crossing off the 2nd guy on my list.......

 
Jayrod said:
For my pantheon 6th man, I was looking at a couple of directions, but I am pleased that this guy fell to me and think he is great value at this spot as the best pure scorer left on the board and a guy who can generate instant offense off the bench:

6.13 - Adrian Dantley - SF 80's

ROY, 2x All-NBA, 6x All-star, HOFer and 2 x Scoring Champ with career averages of 24.3 pts, 5.7 rbs, 3.0 asst.

Dantley was a SOB throughout his career, bounced from team to team, suffered a couple of untimely injuries and was never able to win a title.  But what he ALWAYS did was score points.  Averaged over 30 ppg each season for 4 straight years.  His best statistical years were with Utah, but the best team he was on was Detroit, who traded him away after losing to LA in 1988, right before winning 2 straight championships.  I wouldn't want him to lead my team, but he will be a phenomenal scorer off the bench.
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It took me a long time to forgive him for choosing Notre Dame over Maryland, but I always appreciated his work ethic (he supposedly got his HS coach to open the gym for him to practice on Christmas, and this was at a Catholic HS no less), and his ability to post up smaller defenders and take larger ones off the dribble. Glad to say I got over my initial hatred and rooted for him as a pro. Smart pick here.

 
6.14 Earl Monroe G 60s

NEVER take the foot off the gas, #####! There was a guy fit my squad perfect here and i ain't taking him cuz the original Black Messiah is on the board and i dont let up. G'ahead, get beat up by my 13 1/2 feet of MagicGlide backcourt, then i bring the Pearl in to spin youse into the ground like Looney Tunes. nufced

 
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wikkidpissah said:
6.14 Earl Monroe G 60s

NEVER take the foot off the gas, #####! There was a guy fit my squad perfect here and i ain't taking him cuz the original Black Messiah is on the board and i dont let up. G'ahead get beat up by my 13 1/2 feet of backcourt, then i bring the Pearl in to spin youse into the ground like Looney Tunes. nufced
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Love it.  Was on my team last go around as my starting SG.  Another good 6-man (almost as good as Dantley!)

 
Jayrod said:
Love it.  Was on my team last go around as my starting SG.  Another good 6-man (almost as good as Dantley!)
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and he's so current as the first baller to engineer his own trade (tho God knows why you'd ever want to leave Wes Unseld's concrete picks for mere glamor & fame). hilarious that he's picked behind Kyrie when he invented all his moves

 
So, I guess we are on the clock now.  One hour time limit from the time you are notified by the previous drafter.

modogg has 2 hours from tim's post above (since he has the next 2 picks...normal clock 1 hour)

 
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timschochet said:
6.15 Yao Ming C 2000s
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This is one of the two centers that I think has a case for the best center of the 00's. Their advanced stats are remarkably similar, although they definitely affected the game in different ways. Their PER, WS, VORP, and BPM are almost identical.  Stats.

 
Kev4029 said:
This is one of the two centers that I think has a case for the best center of the 00's. Their advanced stats are remarkably similar, although they definitely affected the game in different ways. Their PER, WS, VORP, and BPM are almost identical.  Stats.
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yup. 8 all star appearances in 8 years. guy was a stud at times in the playoffs. Super bummed he didn't make it one more slot caue i was pretty pumped to grab him

 
modogg said:
yup. 8 all star appearances in 8 years. guy was a stud at times in the playoffs. Super bummed he didn't make it one more slot caue i was pretty pumped to grab him
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And for what it's worth, I think he would have been much better on the pantheon than IRL as his game would have been better suited to the NBA in the 60s/70s/80s when being a giant was more important than having mobility defensively. At the same time, he couldn't survive in today's NBA defensively.

 
If Dantley played defense, I'd have picked him where I picked Cunningham. Earl Monroe was in strong consideration where I took Richmond.

 
ugh, so bummed missing out on Yao. I desperately need to find another big guy for my pantheon team, so...

6.16   Hal Greer   G 60's:

little bit on him, was enjoyable to watch and i see him higher on some all time lists:

The speedy jackrabbit to Wilt Chamberlain's towering colossus, Hal Greer would be the finest guard in the history of the 76ers if not for a certain braided gentleman from Virginia.
Though Chamberlain received much of the press, Greer was with him every step of the way. During the 1967 title season, he scored 22.1 points to Chamberlain's 24.1.
This flipped in the 1967 playoffs, with Greer pouring in 27.7 points, six more than Chamberlain's 21.7.
Greer spent his entire career with the Sixers, appearing in 10 straight All-Star games from 1961 to '70, averaging 19.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists for his career.
His sustained excellence helps him stand out from some of the other legendary players on this list, but greater heights were reached by the remaining players. 

 
modogg said:
ugh, so bummed missing out on Yao. I desperately need to find another big guy for my pantheon team, so...

6.16   Hal Greer   G 60's:

little bit on him, was enjoyable to watch and i see him higher on some all time lists:

The speedy jackrabbit to Wilt Chamberlain's towering colossus, Hal Greer would be the finest guard in the history of the 76ers if not for a certain braided gentleman from Virginia.
Though Chamberlain received much of the press, Greer was with him every step of the way. During the 1967 title season, he scored 22.1 points to Chamberlain's 24.1.
This flipped in the 1967 playoffs, with Greer pouring in 27.7 points, six more than Chamberlain's 21.7.
Greer spent his entire career with the Sixers, appearing in 10 straight All-Star games from 1961 to '70, averaging 19.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists for his career.
His sustained excellence helps him stand out from some of the other legendary players on this list, but greater heights were reached by the remaining players. 
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Damn really was praying he fell back to me, I needed a shooter 

 
modogg said:
ugh, so bummed missing out on Yao. I desperately need to find another big guy for my pantheon team, so...

6.16   Hal Greer   G 60's:

little bit on him, was enjoyable to watch and i see him higher on some all time lists:

The speedy jackrabbit to Wilt Chamberlain's towering colossus, Hal Greer would be the finest guard in the history of the 76ers if not for a certain braided gentleman from Virginia.
Though Chamberlain received much of the press, Greer was with him every step of the way. During the 1967 title season, he scored 22.1 points to Chamberlain's 24.1.
This flipped in the 1967 playoffs, with Greer pouring in 27.7 points, six more than Chamberlain's 21.7.
Greer spent his entire career with the Sixers, appearing in 10 straight All-Star games from 1961 to '70, averaging 19.2 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists for his career.
His sustained excellence helps him stand out from some of the other legendary players on this list, but greater heights were reached by the remaining players. 
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You know we typically don’t give people on the turn a one hour clock for each pick. It’s ok to make a short list when you’re a few picks away. 
 

And good morning. 

 
PG - Stockton, AI

SG - Jordan, Greer

SF - ?

PF - Connie Hawkins

C - Joel Embiid

Small forwards are overrated anyway.

 
Yo Mama said:
You know we typically don’t give people on the turn a one hour clock for each pick. It’s ok to make a short list when you’re a few picks away. 
 

And good morning. 
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just deleted my pick twice. Had a guy who i thought fit well, but this guy is above him on almost every single list i can find. Key for me is that he had a bit of a 3-point game too, so if we need a guy who can spread the floor for Embiid down low, and add good defensive numbers i think this will work:

7.1

Chris Bosh, PF 

Guy knows his place on a championship team. a quality team can't have 5 guys like Harden or AI, so going with a guy who had serviceable defense, but should be much better if he makes my pantheon team because he will have Embiid in the low post so he can play little more around the perimeter. ALmost every single list i was looking around at had him higher then the 3 other guys i was thinking about, so i will defer to the experts with me missing out on Ben Wallace:

Players Stats: 19.2 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.8 SPG, 1.0 BPG

Honors: 11x All-Star, 1x All-NBA Team Selection

Chris Bosh has two rings as the third option of a Miami Heat superteam led by LeBron James, and he also had a great career with the Toronto Raptors as the number one option. While he would be the third option and take two rings any day, Bosh averaged his career-best 24.0 PPG and 10.8 RPG in his final season with the Raptors, making it clear that he had sensational talent and is a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Before joining LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on the Miami Heat, Bosh was one of the top players at his position for the Toronto Raptors. The eleven-time All-Star 19.5 points and 8.5 rebounds in his career in addition to two championships with Miami. His selflessness may have resulted in lesser individual stats. However, Bosh’s selflessness allowed him to compete for championships at the end of his career, while still being an All-Star caliber player.

HIs 3 point shot was under-rated too, even being invited to the 3 point contest later in his career

 his final two seasons he shot north of 35 percent from deep. In the first half of his career with the Raptors, where he was the star of the show in Toronto, Bosh was facing up opponents from 18 feet out, hitting them with a jab step then dribble into a stepback jumper. 

He had the shot and lift of an athletic guard, in the body of a 6-11 center who could still hammer it home and finish through contact at the rim. When he got to Miami, though, he made sacrifices for the greater good of the team to help win two championships, but even with fewer touches, he was still nailing over 50 percent of his mid-range shots. It wasn't until his final two years with the Heat, after LeBron James returned to Cleveland, that Bosh really started to lean into taking more 3s. 

In his final year in the NBA, he was attempting a career-high 4.2 shots from beyond the arc a game, and hitting them at a 36.5 percent clip. That earned him the opportunity to compete in the Three-Point Contest at All-Star Weekend during the 2015-16 season,

 
Jayrod said:
PG - Stockton, AI

SG - Jordan, Greer

SF - ?

PF - Connie Hawkins

C - Joel Embiid

Small forwards are overrated anyway.
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was contemplating Hawkins as my SF or PF, stil on the fence with taking Bosh i can easily put Hawkins in at SF and we can have a very large guy on the perimiter. I have a few sf's still thinking about, so not committing to Bosh there yet.

Jordan can also slide into the 3 if i need him to. Adapting and embracing the great Brad Stevens with his "positionless basketball"

 
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modogg said:
was contemplating Hawkins as my SF or PF, stil on the fence with taking Bosh i can easily put Hawkins in at SF and we can have a very large guy on the perimiter. I have a few sf's still thinking about, so not committing to Bosh there yet.
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Actually, looks like Hawkins is listed more as a SF than a PF on basketball ref. I can move him there on the spreadsheet if you want. 

 
Yo Mama said:
Actually, looks like Hawkins is listed more as a SF than a PF on basketball ref. I can move him there on the spreadsheet if you want. 
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i think so, especially with Bosh coming on board. Probably will have a final call in a few rounds seeing if i can pick up a few other guys i was thinking about

 
Yo Mama said:
You know we typically don’t give people on the turn a one hour clock for each pick. It’s ok to make a short list when you’re a few picks away. 
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Just a heads up:

I'll do what I reasonably can to avoid holding up the draft. That said, I don't work off of a running short list -- just can't plan on anyone falling all that far in one of these drafts. What I do instead is 'recalculate' when I'm on the clock and see who's the best fit available, out of those undrafted, for my squads' needs. That makes it difficult to make a snap draft pick from a phone -- I need to be able to see nd update my running spreadsheet.

Given that, I'll never be, say, 8-10 picks away and be able to send a short list to someone when I know I'll be away. Later in the draft, when picks become a little less chalky, it will make sense for to just tell the house to skip me when I know I'll be away.

N.B.: This past weekend, I got lucky not to have a weekend packed with activities and honey-do's. More typically, weekend drafting will stop for several hours when I'm on the clock. If that's a problem, we should either go with a weekend clock or I will figure something out.

 
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7.3 Gus Johnson F 60s

The pick i'm most exited about since Magic. The first Skywalker (altho, til Wes got there in '68, Bullets mgmt thought the only use for such hops was rebounding) the first Switcher (guarded all 5 positions), the righteous Wright Brutha of modern basketball.

If you love the game, watch this and bear witness to all the aspects of the game being invented on the fly almost 60 yrs ago. Honeycomb

@Jayrod

 
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Doug B said:
Just a heads up:

I'll do what I reasonably can to avoid holding up the draft. That said, I don't work off of a running short list -- just plan on anyone falling all that far in one of these drafts. What I do instead is 'recalculate' when I'm on the clock and see who's the best fit available, out of those undrafted, for my squads' needs. That makes it difficult to make a snap draft pick from a phone -- I need to be able to see nd update my running spreadsheet.

Given that, I'll never be, say, 8-10 picks away and be able to send a short list to someone when I know I'll be away. Later in the draft, when picks become a little less chalky, it will make sense for to just tell the house to skip me when I know I'll be away.

N.B.: This past weekend, I got lucky not to have a weekend packed with activities and honey-do's. More typically, weekend drafting will stop for several hours when I'm on the clock. If that's a problem, we should either go with a weekend clock or I will figure something out.
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holla me anytime, tho, with lists as short or long as you like, if'n you dont wanna miss out. i'm pretty close to the board @ all times in this frozen tomb and y'know we ol' hosses aint influencing each other

 
wikkidpissah said:
7.3 Gus Johnson F 60s

The pick i'm most exited about since Magic. The first Skywalker (altho, til Wes got there in '68, Bullets mgmt thought the only use for such hops was rebounding) the first Switcher (guarded all 5 positions), the Wright Brutha of basketball.

If you love the game, watch this and bear witness to all the aspects of the game being invented on the fly almost 60 yrs ago. Honeycomb
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Love the nickname.

@Jayrod otc

 
timschochet said:
7.2 Vince Carter SF 00s

@wikkidpissah
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I was hoping he would fall to me. Such an interesting NBA career. From superstar malcontent in Toronto, to key cog on some really fun Nets teams, to the sage and well respected rotation player on a handful of teams. There haven't been many superstars of his level that have gracefully taken smaller and smaller roles as they aged.

 
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