What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Analysis: was there any way the Republicans could have prevented Donald Trump? (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
This is not a thread about political issues, only the process. Donald Trump resoundingly won the GOP nomination tonight. 

My question is: in retrospect, could the GOP have prevented this? If so, how? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The GOP is a coalition, but the leaders are corrupt and not understanding or caring what the avg Republican wants. Trump is a populist that is filling the void that the GOP has left open through its own negligence

 
I think it's decades in the making, and the Party has long been broken. To point where they don't have a candidate to beat Trump.

To prevent this, my guess is you'd have to stop Reagan from becoming President. Maybe further back.

 
The GOP is a coalition, but the leaders are corrupt and not understanding or caring what the avg Republican wants. Trump is a populist that is filling the void that the GOP has left open through its own negligence
What's fascinating to me is that going into the campaign Ted Cruz was supposed to be that populist. 

 
Or it's Obama's fault.

This is mostly the broken Party, but some part of this is some severe pent up white rage unleashed when Obama got elected.

 
Also, the challenge that most "experts" saw going in was a candidate that would be able to unite the Tea Party types and the Establishment types. Trump completely demolished that theory. 

Ever since 1964, the GOP nomination has followed a similar process: the establishment candidate beats out the grassroots candidate (this was true even in 1980). This was the first time since Goldwater that it did not happen. 

 
What's fascinating to me is that going into the campaign Ted Cruz was supposed to be that populist. 
I respect him but he's not a populist. He plays well to the hard right and the religious right, that's it. His bedside manner is at times fascinating, at times condescending, at times clueless.  He doesn't exactly exude charisma

 
Absolutely. If the early caucuses and primaries had been closed primaries, Trump never would have had most of his early wins and never would have gained the giant push from the media. In Trump's early wins, he won primarily based on the votes of non-GOP registered individuals.

Also, if the GOP system was like the DNC's and loaded with "super delegates", then Trump never would have had a prayer.

 
Also, the challenge that most "experts" saw going in was a candidate that would be able to unite the Tea Party types and the Establishment types. Trump completely demolished that theory. 

Ever since 1964, the GOP nomination has followed a similar process: the establishment candidate beats out the grassroots candidate (this was true even in 1980). This was the first time since Goldwater that it did not happen. 
The same would have held true if Cruz had won the nomination, no?

 
Or it's Obama's fault.

This is mostly the broken Party, but some part of this is some severe pent up white rage unleashed when Obama got elected.
I personally think you have it backwards. I think only a small part is the "broken party" part.  I think the majority is pent up white rage. Not so much because of Obama, but I think the cumulative effect of the Al Sharptons/Jesse Jacksons of the world, political correctness, Black Lives Matter, the transgender issue, illegals, welfare, and all that stuff. Then you have Trump saying to a large extent what people have been thinking. So no, this is not a function of a broken party. This is a function of a populist candidate tapping into some pent up anger.

 
His opponents by and large were pretty weak, and there were too many of them. I don't know if there's a practical way to limit the field though. 

Another issue is they didn't take him seriously early enough, and I'm still wondering why there hasn't been much digging into all his shady dealings over the years, and his blatant lies about his business record and finances. Then there are suspected mob ties, exploited workers, all the infidelities, etc. And, Priebus is weak and feeble and should be taking more of a leadership role to keep this pos from getting the nomination by any means necessary. Overall it's been a lot of hand-wringing but no coherent, coordinated effort to take him down.

What makes me ill about politics in general too -- all the congresspeople who won't take a stand one way or another, though they clearly despise him. If you had dozens of them stand up and say "I'll never support Trump under any circumstances", maybe that would resonate. Christ, even weaselly Cruz won't vow not to endorse him. This crap is why everyone hates Washington.

 
Or it's Obama's fault.

This is mostly the broken Party, but some part of this is some severe pent up white rage unleashed when Obama got elected.
There's only white rage in a very very small subset of the white population in this country. Obama came into office with very high approvals and optimism.

Trump is winning because the Republican leadership is clueless, and because Trump is talking about making America great. He's running on nationalism and hope for the future.  

While I won't vote for either Hillary or Trump, I can get why someone that wants to believe politicians would vote for Trump, especially if they hate Hillary

 
Tea Partiers and politicans of Cruz's ilk neutered established rank and file Republicans, disenfranchised Rockefeller Republicans, eliminated their ability to reach across the aisle and forced all Republicans to run hard to the Right in their rhetoric.  Once the establishment was eliminated...Trump filled the vaccum.  

If Cruz wasn't running......they might have been able to consolidate earlier behind a likeable candidate and hammer Trump.....but Cruz, significantly disliked by the rank and file himself, helped thwart that.  Maybe Cruz thought those people would hold their nose and rally behind him once it became a beauty contest between him and Trump......

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also, if the GOP system was like the DNC's and loaded with "super delegates", then Trump never would have had a prayer.
Regarding this part, the Democrats have never used the Super Delegates to override the public and I strongly doubt they ever would. 

 
No, from the very beginning the GOP had the non-strategy of hoping and praying that he'd implode because that was the only strategy they had.  They had nothing to stop him.

 
Yes, they should have blocked him from the first debate and taken him up on his threat to run third party.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The GOP is a coalition, but the leaders are corrupt and not understanding or caring what the avg Republican wants. Trump is a populist that is filling the void that the GOP has left open through its own negligence
Yes & yes.

 
Another factor: Jeb Bush, the presumptive favorite, was just terrible. And then after he quit he refused to endorse Rubio. Rubio turned out to be nearly as bad as Bush. 

But those two were the only chance to beat Trump? Cruz, in retrospect had no shot. 

 
And Bush and Rubio, besides being awful, never ran against Trump until it was too late. Instead they spent their money running against each other.

 
Listen to the people and stuff like this doesn't happen....applies to both parties.  If the Dems don't take notice, the same will happen with them eventually.  Anger is a powerful emotion, but it's a symptom of a larger problem....always.

 
Regarding this part, the Democrats have never used the Super Delegates to override the public and I strongly doubt they ever would. 
Don't try to confuse GroveDiesel with the facts. Present Democratic Party Super Delegate rules were adopted in 1984 and have yet to ultimately decide the nominee, having always reflected the will of the voters.

 
Regarding this part, the Democrats have never used the Super Delegates to override the public and I strongly doubt they ever would. 
They did from the very beginning this year. It's how Sanders won the popular vote in several states and yet lost in delegate count in those same States. None of those Superdelegates had to announce who they were supporting, but they all did so in order to create a narrative that Clinton was the true frontrunner and inevitable. Sure, they could have changed their vote when the time came, but it's clear that they used their outsized power to create and early narrative and perception.

Does anyone really think that if the same system was used by the GOP and one of the other candidates was doubling up Trump over the two months that Trump would have been called "inevitable" so early and created the self fulfilling prophecy? Or that the media would have been behind him to the degree they are? Or that people would jump on his bandwagon to identify with the "winner"? 

Let's face it, narrative and perception matter. If the GOP had been able to control that narrative and perception early by lining up Superdelegates to announce for someone else, Trump likely never gains the momentum that he got.

 
All you need is a good slogan to catch a dumb consumer. Make America Great Again was worked on by expensive marketing people who probably did studies on how to capture the attention of an idiot. Ring a bell? Change? Hope?

 
It doesn't matter.  The Republican establishment is going to pay for Cruz to take a 6 month tour of the country as an Independent and #### up the whole thing for Trump.

 
In my opinion it is a combination of a lot things. A house and Senate controlled by republicans that get a lot of media coverage for doing nothing and wasting tax payer money doing it, the condition our country was in when Bush was in office, and perceived views on women. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I mean white rage towards Obama. What do you mean?
I mean political correctness in general. Black Lives Matter, illegals, transgender, feelings on Syrian immigrants and the like. People are tired of being told their conservative opinions are wrong because they're not politically correct. 

And for the record, I live in Indiana and did vote in the Republican primary today and did not vote for Trump. As much as I see why people rally behind him, I also cannot stand him.

 
I mean political correctness in general. Black Lives Matter, illegals, transgender, feelings on Syrian immigrants and the like. People are tired of being told their conservative opinions are wrong because they're not politically correct. 

And for the record, I live in Indiana and did vote in the Republican primary today and did not vote for Trump. As much as I see why people rally behind him, I also cannot stand him.
Oh I see the problem, let me me help clear it up: their conservative opinions are not wrong because they're not politically correct, it's because they're wrong.  HTH.

 
If you have an electorate that's willing to vote for a guy like Trump, then I'm not sure what you're supposed to do.  You're just screwed.

Personally, I am done with the Republican party at this point.  I understand that most "official" Republicans are disgusted at their nominee, but I refuse to associate with a party that has this sort of voter base.

 
His opponents by and large were pretty weak, and there were too many of them. I don't know if there's a practical way to limit the field though. 

Another issue is they didn't take him seriously early enough, and I'm still wondering why there hasn't been much digging into all his shady dealings over the years, and his blatant lies about his business record and finances. Then there are suspected mob ties, exploited workers, all the infidelities, etc. And, Priebus is weak and feeble and should be taking more of a leadership role to keep this pos from getting the nomination by any means necessary. Overall it's been a lot of hand-wringing but no coherent, coordinated effort to take him down.

What makes me ill about politics in general too -- all the congresspeople who won't take a stand one way or another, though they clearly despise him. If you had dozens of them stand up and say "I'll never support Trump under any circumstances", maybe that would resonate. Christ, even weaselly Cruz won't vow not to endorse him. This crap is why everyone hates Washington.
Well stated.  Primarily it was 20 other candidates splitting up 75% of the vote early while Trump coasted with a rock solid 25%.  Even still, there was a chance to stop him but freaking Kasich is the most clueless man on the planet.  He continued to stick around even though he was mathematically eliminated and siphoned enough of the "nevertrump" vote to keep Cruz from making inroads.  Kasich essentially handed this nomination to trump.  

 
So some of the anti-Trump establishment righty knuckle-draggers are saying they will not vote for Trump, and some of the Bernie kooks are saying they won't vote for Hillary. 

This is only gonna get better people. 

 
So some of the anti-Trump establishment righty knuckle-draggers are saying they will not vote for Trump, and some of the Bernie kooks are saying they won't vote for Hillary. 

This is only gonna get better people. 
I don't think that people who refuse to vote from Trump or Hillary deserve to get branded as the knuckle-draggers or kooks of this election.  Both parties nominated #### candidates this time around.  Especially the Democrats, but especially the Republicans.  (Paraphrasing Sideshow Bob here).

 
So some of the anti-Trump establishment righty knuckle-draggers are saying they will not vote for Trump, and some of the Bernie kooks are saying they won't vote for Hillary. 

This is only gonna get better people. 
I don't think that people who refuse to vote from Trump or Hillary deserve to get branded as the knuckle-draggers or kooks of this election.  Both parties nominated #### candidates this time around.  Especially the Democrats, but especially the Republicans.  (Paraphrasing Sideshow Bob here).
See bolded

 
Okay, fair enough.  Still, especially in the case of the GOP, I don't think it's fair to criticize people for not backing their party's nominee.  No principled right-winger of any stripe, evangelical, libertarian, whatever -- should be supporting Trump.
Yeah but the people have spoken, Trump collected votes against what the GOP thought was their best stock.  I mean we can't really disregard the will of the people can we? 

 
Yeah but the people have spoken, Trump collected votes against what the GOP thought was their best stock.  I mean we can't really disregard the will of the people can we? 
Hey like I said, the GOP electorate made their bed.  They can now kindly lie in it for all I care. 

Edit: To clarify just a little, I'm not a big fan of democracy in general.  I'm all for disregarding the will of the people if they're going to elect jackasses like this fellow. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top