ANARCHY LEAGUE 3 (5 Viewers)

[David Yudkin]

I'm using the DD to track the draft.nightshift in particular will put the importance of RBs to the test. Using the default (latest) projections in the DD and looking at team strength, nightshift has and will maintain the highest projected points at QB, TE, K, and Defense, and the highest overall point total thus far (with all teams complete through 12, expect jiggy). And his flex is covered by a very good TE (either Winslow or Vernon Davis, whichever you'd rank lower). However, he currently has only 1 RB (and 2 WR).Pimpin' is also testing this, but in possibly a more "traditional" way, with 5 WRs and 0 Ks drafted thus far, along with 2 QBs, 2 TEs, and 2 Defenses, but only 1 RB.And my team, with only 2 RBs is kind of distantly bringing up the rear on this strategy.Probably the best thing about this league format is that it spurs a lot of creative draft strategies.

What I think is interesting is that I tried as hard as possible to come up with a scoring system that was unfriendly to RB to get people to get away from the hoarde the RBs mentality. Yet some teams STILL went bananas over RBs. They may still do well, but I guarantee that they will need help from their other picks (late guys overachieving) or they will have a hard time scoring enough points.If you add up the projected points for all the teams and look at the RB heavy ones, they should be behind the 8-ball at the start in terms of projected points. The exception would be those that were able to get one of the true studs, as they will score pretty high in almost any format. But the #25 RB will not be a difference maker in this league unless he was drafted later on. Of course, injuries will play a role, but on paper IMO guys that loaded up on RB early could be in for some disappointment. But we'll see, as certainly a lot of teams went in COMPLETELY different directions. I mean, how many "normal" leagues have 3 tight ends drafted in the first round?

 

[Tau837]

I'm using the DD to track the draft.nightshift in particular will put the importance of RBs to the test. Using the default (latest) projections in the DD and looking at team strength, nightshift has and will maintain the highest projected points at QB, TE, K, and Defense, and the highest overall point total thus far (with all teams complete through 12, expect jiggy). And his flex is covered by a very good TE (either Winslow or Vernon Davis, whichever you'd rank lower). However, he currently has only 1 RB (and 2 WR).Pimpin' is also testing this, but in possibly a more "traditional" way, with 5 WRs and 0 Ks drafted thus far, along with 2 QBs, 2 TEs, and 2 Defenses, but only 1 RB.And my team, with only 2 RBs is kind of distantly bringing up the rear on this strategy.Probably the best thing about this league format is that it spurs a lot of creative draft strategies.

What I think is interesting is that I tried as hard as possible to come up with a scoring system that was unfriendly to RB to get people to get away from the hoarde the RBs mentality. Yet some teams STILL went bananas over RBs. They may still do well, but I guarantee that they will need help from their other picks (late guys overachieving) or they will have a hard time scoring enough points.If you add up the projected points for all the teams and look at the RB heavy ones, they should be behind the 8-ball at the start in terms of projected points. The exception would be those that were able to get one of the true studs, as they will score pretty high in almost any format. But the #25 RB will not be a difference maker in this league unless he was drafted later on. Of course, injuries will play a role, but on paper IMO guys that loaded up on RB early could be in for some disappointment. But we'll see, as certainly a lot of teams went in COMPLETELY different directions. I mean, how many "normal" leagues have 3 tight ends drafted in the first round?

I think possibly the best draft would be to have a top 3 pick, take a RB, then don't take another one for 10+ rounds, unless presented with value too good to pass up, regardless of whether or not you first went for QB, WR, TE. After 11 rounds, you'd have 1 stud RB, 2 QBs, 2 TEs, 2 Defenses, and 2-3 WRs (maybe a flex TE worked in there somewhere).

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Jut win, do you have the DD dump for ranking the teams?

 

[David Yudkin]

I'm using the DD to track the draft.nightshift in particular will put the importance of RBs to the test. Using the default (latest) projections in the DD and looking at team strength, nightshift has and will maintain the highest projected points at QB, TE, K, and Defense, and the highest overall point total thus far (with all teams complete through 12, expect jiggy). And his flex is covered by a very good TE (either Winslow or Vernon Davis, whichever you'd rank lower). However, he currently has only 1 RB (and 2 WR).Pimpin' is also testing this, but in possibly a more "traditional" way, with 5 WRs and 0 Ks drafted thus far, along with 2 QBs, 2 TEs, and 2 Defenses, but only 1 RB.And my team, with only 2 RBs is kind of distantly bringing up the rear on this strategy.Probably the best thing about this league format is that it spurs a lot of creative draft strategies.

What I think is interesting is that I tried as hard as possible to come up with a scoring system that was unfriendly to RB to get people to get away from the hoarde the RBs mentality. Yet some teams STILL went bananas over RBs. They may still do well, but I guarantee that they will need help from their other picks (late guys overachieving) or they will have a hard time scoring enough points.If you add up the projected points for all the teams and look at the RB heavy ones, they should be behind the 8-ball at the start in terms of projected points. The exception would be those that were able to get one of the true studs, as they will score pretty high in almost any format. But the #25 RB will not be a difference maker in this league unless he was drafted later on. Of course, injuries will play a role, but on paper IMO guys that loaded up on RB early could be in for some disappointment. But we'll see, as certainly a lot of teams went in COMPLETELY different directions. I mean, how many "normal" leagues have 3 tight ends drafted in the first round?

I think possibly the best draft would be to have a top 3 pick, take a RB, then don't take another one for 10+ rounds, unless presented with value too good to pass up, regardless of whether or not you first went for QB, WR, TE. After 11 rounds, you'd have 1 stud RB, 2 QBs, 2 TEs, 2 Defenses, and 2-3 WRs (maybe a flex TE worked in there somewhere).

I wouldn't lump the Team Defenses in there, as I firmly believe that most of them are crapshoots anyway. You probably don't want one of the true bottom feeders, but the ones in the middle are fine and will not kill you scoring wise, especially if they are from a playoff contender. (There were 14 team defense that ranked within 18 points of each other last year--that's almost half the teams in the same tier.)Similarly, I think there are some sleeper TMQB that can be had on the later side of the range, so while they should probably be taken in the 10-11 round range that you mentioned, I'd be happy taking a flyer on at least one of them on the late side of the range.

 

[Tau837]

I'm using the DD to track the draft.nightshift in particular will put the importance of RBs to the test. Using the default (latest) projections in the DD and looking at team strength, nightshift has and will maintain the highest projected points at QB, TE, K, and Defense, and the highest overall point total thus far (with all teams complete through 12, expect jiggy). And his flex is covered by a very good TE (either Winslow or Vernon Davis, whichever you'd rank lower). However, he currently has only 1 RB (and 2 WR).Pimpin' is also testing this, but in possibly a more "traditional" way, with 5 WRs and 0 Ks drafted thus far, along with 2 QBs, 2 TEs, and 2 Defenses, but only 1 RB.And my team, with only 2 RBs is kind of distantly bringing up the rear on this strategy.Probably the best thing about this league format is that it spurs a lot of creative draft strategies.

What I think is interesting is that I tried as hard as possible to come up with a scoring system that was unfriendly to RB to get people to get away from the hoarde the RBs mentality. Yet some teams STILL went bananas over RBs. They may still do well, but I guarantee that they will need help from their other picks (late guys overachieving) or they will have a hard time scoring enough points.If you add up the projected points for all the teams and look at the RB heavy ones, they should be behind the 8-ball at the start in terms of projected points. The exception would be those that were able to get one of the true studs, as they will score pretty high in almost any format. But the #25 RB will not be a difference maker in this league unless he was drafted later on. Of course, injuries will play a role, but on paper IMO guys that loaded up on RB early could be in for some disappointment. But we'll see, as certainly a lot of teams went in COMPLETELY different directions. I mean, how many "normal" leagues have 3 tight ends drafted in the first round?

I think possibly the best draft would be to have a top 3 pick, take a RB, then don't take another one for 10+ rounds, unless presented with value too good to pass up, regardless of whether or not you first went for QB, WR, TE. After 11 rounds, you'd have 1 stud RB, 2 QBs, 2 TEs, 2 Defenses, and 2-3 WRs (maybe a flex TE worked in there somewhere).

I wouldn't lump the Team Defenses in there, as I firmly believe that most of them are crapshoots anyway. You probably don't want one of the true bottom feeders, but the ones in the middle are fine and will not kill you scoring wise, especially if they are from a playoff contender. (There were 14 team defense that ranked within 18 points of each other last year--that's almost half the teams in the same tier.)Similarly, I think there are some sleeper TMQB that can be had on the later side of the range, so while they should probably be taken in the 10-11 round range that you mentioned, I'd be happy taking a flyer on at least one of them on the late side of the range.

27 Team QBs were off the board by the end of the 8th round in this league, so I think you better have a hell of a sleeper to wait beyond the 8th.You may have a point on the defenses, though.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

 

[tex]

This is my 1st time for this also, but my strategy for the most part has been to try and grab players who I felt had good shots at the playoffs. We'll see how that works out. There are a couple of players who I deviated from that policy, but for the most part I have stuck to it.

 

[renesauz]

This is my 1st time for this also, but my strategy for the most part has been to try and grab players who I felt had good shots at the playoffs. We'll see how that works out. There are a couple of players who I deviated from that policy, but for the most part I have stuck to it.

I've actually done the opposite, figuring that any pre-season list of "playoff teams" is only 30-50% accurate anyway. With that in mind, I've only used playoff expectations as a tiebreaker.

 

[Z-Dog]

I went heaviest on RBs precisely because of the 0-point issue, and my belief in finding good values at WR. Last-starter VBD is obviously the most relevant baseline to use, but it doesn't account for the relative clusters or tiers of value in directing you to choose someone.

Going strong on RBs will give me points every week, and I was still able to get three full-time WRs, including Joe Horn, who I'm counting on to be a big value. At the 4th WR I'm definitely going to take a high-risk flyer and roll the dice. I figure the 3-6 ppg from that spot for a 2 catch/week guy isn't going to make much of a difference, and I may as well swing for the fences.

At QB, it was interesting to me that the guys left over at this point are all the teams that did poorly last year. But we all know that the teams likeliest to end up on the bottom are the same every year - teams that lose starters early due to injury, or teams that go with rookie QBs. While nobody can predict injuries, only the Jets have any chance of starting a rookie at some point this year. That tells me that these QBs will all be values wherever I take them. I could much more easily see teams like the Vikings and Titans wind up on the bottom of the passing heap b/c of injuries and rookie starters than a team like the 49ers, who have a good backup behind a 2nd-year starter, or the Bears, who were forced into a much more conservative offense last year when they had to start a 5th round rookie.

Looking back, the choice that may well make or break my season was taking Addai over Santana Moss. Compared to Maroney in the 7th, Addai in the 3rd was a reach, and Moss was a nice value at that spot. Still, a high-upside reach with an almost guaranteed playoff berth, which is what swung it for me.

 

[Fiddles]

Going strong on RBs will give me points every week, and I was still able to get three full-time WRs, including Joe Horn, who I'm counting on to be a big value. At the 4th WR I'm definitely going to take a high-risk flyer and roll the dice. I figure the 3-6 ppg from that spot for a 2 catch/week guy isn't going to make much of a difference, and I may as well swing for the fences.

We start 5 WRs not 4.

Looking back, the choice that may well make or break my season was taking Addai over Santana Moss. Compared to Maroney in the 7th, Addai in the 3rd was a reach, and Moss was a nice value at that spot. Still, a high-upside reach with an almost guaranteed playoff berth, which is what swung it for me.

 

[gocats]

Hey David Yudkin we have a problem, the damn autodraft gave me a 3 QB

 

[David Yudkin]

Hey David Yudkin we have a problem, the damn autodraft gave me a 3 QB

Hurry up and give me who you want and I'll fix it.

 

[Fiddles]

Hey David Yudkin we have a problem, the damn autodraft gave me a 3 QB

DQ have a good season guy(predraft)

 

[David Yudkin]

Hey David Yudkin we have a problem, the damn autodraft gave me a 3 QB

Hurry up and give me who you want and I'll fix it.

Fixed. SF TMQB switched to WR Greg Jennings instead. Cut him some slack, he PMd me 15 minutes from timing out.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

I love the creativity but keep in mind that last season, those who got the least amount of production from their respective RB's ended up doing the worst.

 

[Tau837]

Probably the best thing about this league format is that it spurs a lot of creative draft strategies.

What I think is interesting is that I tried as hard as possible to come up with a scoring system that was unfriendly to RB to get people to get away from the hoarde the RBs mentality. Yet some teams STILL went bananas over RBs. They may still do well, but I guarantee that they will need help from their other picks (late guys overachieving) or they will have a hard time scoring enough points.If you add up the projected points for all the teams and look at the RB heavy ones, they should be behind the 8-ball at the start in terms of projected points. The exception would be those that were able to get one of the true studs, as they will score pretty high in almost any format. But the #25 RB will not be a difference maker in this league unless he was drafted later on. Of course, injuries will play a role, but on paper IMO guys that loaded up on RB early could be in for some disappointment. But we'll see, as certainly a lot of teams went in COMPLETELY different directions. I mean, how many "normal" leagues have 3 tight ends drafted in the first round?

Thinking about this some more. This format has done a fairly nice job of leveling the value between RBs, WRs, and TEs. But it doesn't do the same for K, Defense, and/or QB, given the Team QB format. So here is some food for thought for a future league:Why not try to do the same for Defense? One way to do this would be to introduce penalties for bad defense. So in addition to giving positive points for good performance in yards/points allowed, also give negative performance in those areas. This would greatly increase the spread between the best and worst defenses.Why not try to increase the value for kickers? This league does value them slightly more than normal given the need to get two who will play, but it mostly affects the last quarter of the kickers. Could the scoring be tweaked in any way? Negative points for misses probably wouldn't do a lot, I'm guessing. How about allowing kickers at flex? A flex kicker would stand to double the score of most flex RBs and outscore most flex WRs and TEs by at least a small margin (20 points?). But a team would be forced to draft 2 to get to the 3rd one as a flex, and would need to do so before the bottom quarter of the kickers to ensure getting the points. This would also create the possibility of a team getting frozen out at kicker if it waits too long, and thus create more urgency to draft K. At least in theory.Can the spread at QB be broadened via scoring changes? As has been discussed, it is potentially great to get an early QB, but after that, this system makes it even easier to wait on QB than in most normal drafts. How about going from team QB back to individual QBs? Perhaps combined with allowing a QB at flex. Teams would be able to go with 3 straight QBs to start the draft to lock in a flex, creating urgency for other teams not to get frozen out. Alternatively, teams could choose to use a handcuff QB at flex to protect a starter.Again, all just food for thought. Thinking through the league as it is has been a lot of fun.

 

[David Yudkin]

There are inherant problems with any scoring system, and I will review some of the concerns with what JWB suggested.

Changing to indiviudal QBs is an option, but if your starter goes out you are doomed. I thought about allowing for more roster spots to accommodate having individual QBs, but then you run the risk of people loading up on QBs and some teams being shut out on starters and having to go with reserve QBs instead. In theory, a team with an extra starting QB could have a 300 point scoring advantage and that would be wrong in my book.

Similarly, if you start letting kickers become flex options, then some teams will lose out on starting kickers. If we are going to mandate that teams HAVE to have two of them, then we would be saying that some teams will get zero or close to it at a kicker spot.

As for augmenting the scoring system, the difference between the #1 and #32 Team QBs was 257 points. That is A TON. I also think that Team QB went FASTER than in most leagues, as 27 of them went off the board through round 10 (or something similar). In most leagues, I'm not sure that many QBs would get picked that quickly.

The scoring difference at defense was not quite as pronounced, as #1 outscored #32 by 176 points. PK was the one spot where the range was more consolidated (a difference of 118 points from #1 to #32). But how much emphasis do we want to give to kickers?

We can revisit all these things next year . . .

 

[Tau837]

There are inherant problems with any scoring system, and I will review some of the concerns with what JWB suggested.Changing to indiviudal QBs is an option, but if your starter goes out you are doomed. I thought about allowing for more roster spots to accommodate having individual QBs, but then you run the risk of people loading up on QBs and some teams being shut out on starters and having to go with reserve QBs instead. In theory, a team with an extra starting QB could have a 300 point scoring advantage and that would be wrong in my book.Similarly, if you start letting kickers become flex options, then some teams will lose out on starting kickers. If we are going to mandate that teams HAVE to have two of them, then we would be saying that some teams will get zero or close to it at a kicker spot.As for augmenting the scoring system, the difference between the #1 and #32 Team QBs was 257 points. That is A TON. I also think that Team QB went FASTER than in most leagues, as 27 of them went off the board through round 10 (or something similar). In most leagues, I'm not sure that many QBs would get picked that quickly.The scoring difference at defense was not quite as pronounced, as #1 outscored #32 by 176 points. PK was the one spot where the range was more consolidated (a difference of 118 points from #1 to #32). But how much emphasis do we want to give to kickers?We can revisit all these things next year . . .

I don't think any changes are needed. I am just intrigued by how much this format led to diversity of draft strategy and was thinking about what else would further that and kind of thinking out loud. Admittedly, given that we are drafting right now, I was really thinking more about drafting and draft strategies than the actual season-long competition.As for the spreads between QBs and Defenses, it's not as much between #1 and #32 as between possibly #5 and #27... or something like that.

 

[Jackal King]

Something weird just happened. It looks like the 15.01 pick shows a timer expired on the draft report...but...that pick should have just now rolled onto the clock. Will it say 'timer expired' if an illegal pick is attempted?

 

[Pimpin Ain't Easy]

It looks like renesauz timed out, but was still able to make his pick about 15 minutes after. Everyone behind him, and in front of you, including your 1st pick pre-drafted, and your 2nd pick @ the turn got hit with the time out for some reason. That's my guess looking at the time stamps of the picks.

I'm sure Yudkin will make it right.

 

[renesauz]

It looks like renesauz timed out, but was still able to make his pick about 15 minutes after. Everyone behind him, and in front of you, including your 1st pick pre-drafted, and your 2nd pick @ the turn got hit with the time out for some reason. That's my guess looking at the time stamps of the picks.I'm sure Yudkin will make it right.

I did????!!!I thought the timer was set for 8 hours? I checked several times early in the day, then had a customer come in and was not free to even check until right when I made my pick. It ended up just over 4 hours.If I screwed anything up, I apologize...you can see from my average draft time that I'm usually pretty quick....

 

[Pimpin Ain't Easy]

4 hr's is the limit

 

[Jackal King]

It looks like renesauz timed out, but was still able to make his pick about 15 minutes after. Everyone behind him, and in front of you, including your 1st pick pre-drafted, and your 2nd pick @ the turn got hit with the time out for some reason. That's my guess looking at the time stamps of the picks.

I'm sure Yudkin will make it right.

It definitely looks like a glitch to me. The time stamp on Jiggys second pick (the one that says 'time out') is actually 17 seconds earlier than the 3 previous picks.Jiggy got ripped off.

And...if Rene did time out...then you owe me the Arizona Defense.

I had Az ahead of Min on my predraft.

 

[David Yudkin]

Not sure what happened to the draft board. Maybe Superman came in an time went backwards.

We need to see what jiggy wants for his second pick and then regroup.

 

[Fiddles]

Not sure what happened to the draft board. Maybe Superman came in an time went backwards.We need to see what jiggy wants for his second pick and then regroup.

im waiting to make my pick until we get this resolved

 

[Tau837]

Not sure what happened to the draft board. Maybe Superman came in an time went backwards.We need to see what jiggy wants for his second pick and then regroup.

im waiting to make my pick until we get this resolved

I'm confused about what has happened. jiggy missed a pick due to an apparent glitch, so we were supposed to regroup. So Fiddles said he'd wait until that was resolved before picking, but now he has timed out and Dreamers got two picks from his predraft list. Now we're back to Fiddles.Questions:1. Are we going to give jiggy a pick for the one he missed, which might ripple through all picks made since?2. Are we going to give Fiddles his missed pick, which might affect the picks made by Dreamers?3. When will these things happen?

 

[Fiddles]

Not sure what happened to the draft board. Maybe Superman came in an time went backwards.We need to see what jiggy wants for his second pick and then regroup.

im waiting to make my pick until we get this resolved

I'm confused about what has happened. jiggy missed a pick due to an apparent glitch, so we were supposed to regroup. So Fiddles said he'd wait until that was resolved before picking, but now he has timed out and Dreamers got two picks from his predraft list. Now we're back to Fiddles.Questions:1. Are we going to give jiggy a pick for the one he missed, which might ripple through all picks made since?2. Are we going to give Fiddles his missed pick, which might affect the picks made by Dreamers?3. When will these things happen?

I emailed Yudkin and he said to wait to make a pick. I am guessing we still havent heard from jiggy but once we do we will need to start over from there.

 

[David Yudkin]

Still waiting to hear back from jiggy . . . can't really do much until we do.

 

[Tau837]

Still waiting to hear back from jiggy . . . can't really do much until we do.

Well, those behind Fiddles should probably clear their predraft lists to avoid more picks to be reverted. Fiddles is going to time out again in about 20 minutes, and two more auto picks will be made.

 

[David Yudkin]

Still waiting to hear back from jiggy . . . can't really do much until we do.

Well, those behind Fiddles should probably clear their predraft lists to avoid more picks to be reverted. Fiddles is going to time out again in about 20 minutes, and two more auto picks will be made.

I turned the timer off.

 

[nightshift]

C'mon! The most you need a 4 guys. Put up a list of 20 & throw it on auto pick!

 

[renesauz]

If fiddles and bycicle seat sniffer can jump in and get their picks in, we can continue.

 

[David Yudkin]

OK . . . I gave jiggy a kicker and left the next batch of picks the same. I reset things back to where Fiddles timed out and we'll pick up from there.

If no one takes anyone else's picks, I can resubmit the picks that were already made once people pick.

So Fiddles is up, but I will leave the clock off until we get caught up.

 

[renesauz]

OK . . . I gave jiggy a kicker and left the next batch of picks the same. I reset things back to where Fiddles timed out and we'll pick up from there.If no one takes anyone else's picks, I can resubmit the picks that were already made once people pick.So Fiddles is up, but I will leave the clock off until we get caught up.

That should work...Still feel bad that the whole thing may have been caused by me going 10 minutes over on my time :(

 

[David Yudkin]

OK . . . we should be smooth sailing now from here on out. All the timed out or skipped piacks have been filled in.

 

[renesauz]

Had a message from David letting me know someone had already taken Hank Baskett....messaged him back to switch my pick to Sinorice Moss, wr NYG

 

[David Yudkin]

These replacement picks are killing me . . .

 

[Jackal King]

These replacement picks are killing me . . .

At this stage of the draft...I'd just let them pick their own from whomever isn't drafted.

 

[tex]

What is this Carl Ford crap at 17.09? I had enough players predrafted and he was definitely not one of them. I don't even know who the hell he is? My first predraft was Maurice Drew and he is still available, so could you please put him on my roster?

 

[David Yudkin]

What is this Carl Ford crap at 17.09? I had enough players predrafted and he was definitely not one of them. I don't even know who the hell he is? My first predraft was Maurice Drew and he is still available, so could you please put him on my roster?

You predrafted (and received) Baskett, but he was already on a team (just not in the player database at the time he was picked). I went ahead and added Drew.

 

[nightshift]

What is this Carl Ford crap at 17.09? I had enough players predrafted and he was definitely not one of them. I don't even know who the hell he is? My first predraft was Maurice Drew and he is still available, so could you please put him on my roster?

You predrafted (and received) Baskett, but he was already on a team (just not in the player database at the time he was picked). I went ahead and added Drew.

Hey! I had LJ on my predraft list; so could you please put him on my roster?

 

[David Yudkin]

What is this Carl Ford crap at 17.09? I had enough players predrafted and he was definitely not one of them. I don't even know who the hell he is? My first predraft was Maurice Drew and he is still available, so could you please put him on my roster?

You predrafted (and received) Baskett, but he was already on a team (just not in the player database at the time he was picked). I went ahead and added Drew.

Hey! I had LJ on my predraft list; so could you please put him on my roster?

What are yuo talking about?

 

[tex]

What is this Carl Ford crap at 17.09? I had enough players predrafted and he was definitely not one of them. I don't even know who the hell he is? My first predraft was Maurice Drew and he is still available, so could you please put him on my roster?

You predrafted (and received) Baskett, but he was already on a team (just not in the player database at the time he was picked). I went ahead and added Drew.

Thank you.

 

[Tau837]

Unless I'm missing something, I think Bruno2 just took his 6th RB and only has 4 WRs. I think his roster includes Jordan, Droughns, Gado, Moore, Moats, and Jerome Harrison at RB and Ward, Matt Jones, Givens, and Gabriel at WR. This isn't legal, is it? Or do I have the roster incorrect?

 

[David Yudkin]

Unless I'm missing something, I think Bruno2 just took his 6th RB and only has 4 WRs. I think his roster includes Jordan, Droughns, Gado, Moore, Moats, and Jerome Harrison at RB and Ward, Matt Jones, Givens, and Gabriel at WR. This isn't legal, is it? Or do I have the roster incorrect?

You are correct, sir. Bruno needs a WR.

 

[Tau837]

Now that the draft is over, here is some info from the Draft Dominator. This uses version 7.0d, updated today for latest projections, strength of schedule, etc. I did not adjust projections, so I think these are Joe & David's projections as of 8/9. Obviously, that means there will be plenty of disagreement, plus some projections are out of date (Suggs, for example).

Still, I like the results.

Team				  Points	VBD----				  ------  -------Just Win Baby		 2680.1   1380.0Jiggyonthehut		 2672.9   1372.0Pimpin' Ain't Easy	2654.4   1354.0Jackal King		   2634.7   1333.0nightshift			2634.0   1341.0gocats				2624.2   1323.0Flying Porkchops	  2577.5   1313.0Reaper				2562.5   1262.0Jimmy D			   2539.7   1276.0Dreamers			  2533.9   1232.0renesauz			  2503.7   1242.0bicycle seat sniffer  2501.5   -711.0Bruno2				2493.9   1231.0Duckboy			   2458.7   1157.0Fiddles			   2387.0   1125.0Thrown to the Frogs   2288.1  -2812.0

 

[nightshift]

Here are the final teams from DD:

Jiggyonthehut

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

06.16 QB11 Michael Vick Atl/5 243.8 149 06.03 37

08.16 QB25 David Carr Hou/5 210.6 116 09.09 76

01.01 RB2 LaDainian Tomlinson SD/3 282.9 247 01.03 2

03.01 RB20 Julius Jones Dal/3 159.8 124 02.09 65

10.16 RB53 Brandon Jacobs NYG/4 62.9 27 10.16 207

12.16 RB56 Verron Haynes Pit/4 58.9 23 14.13 215

02.16 WR10 Donald Driver GB/6 233.5 159 03.13 26

04.16 WR21 Andre Johnson Hou/5 192.9 119 03.14 73

07.01 WR32 Reggie Brown Phi/9 168.5 94 05.14 98

09.01 WR34 Antonio Bryant SF/7 163.8 90 08.12 105

14.16 WR77 Santonio Holmes Pit/4 87.5 13 13.10 254

18.16 WR97 Patrick Crayton Dal/3 54.8 -19 --- 332

05.01 TE9 L.J. Smith Phi/9 175.6 107 07.08 85

13.01 TE31 Courtney Anderson Oak/3 78 10 16.07 264

15.01 PK11 Lawrence Tynes KC/3 118.6 31 13.06 194

16.16 PK25 Mike Nugent NYJ/9 101.2 13 16.14 255

11.01 DEF8 Jacksonville Jac/6 152.5 47 10.09 155

17.01 DEF26 San Francisco SF/7 127.1 22 --- 217

Jackal King

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.02 QB16 Daunte Culpepper Mia/8 235 140 05.02 50

08.15 QB29 Billy Volek Ten/7 179.6 85 11.11 108

01.02 RB3 Shaun Alexander Sea/5 271.3 235 01.02 3

03.02 RB21 Chester Taylor Min/6 158.8 123 03.03 67

06.15 RB35 Ahman Green GB/6 99.2 63 05.01 132

10.15 RB43 Chris Perry Cin/5 84.5 48 08.04 153

02.15 WR9 Chris Chambers Mia/8 238 164 02.12 24

05.02 WR19 Deion Branch NE/6 201 127 04.12 64

04.15 WR22 Javon Walker Den/4 192.7 119 03.15 74

12.15 WR58 Reggie Williams Jac/6 119.8 46 13.07 160

11.02 WR62 Brandon Stokley Ind/6 109.6 35 11.15 184

16.15 WR87 Bryant Johnson Ari/9 70.6 -4 --- 292

13.02 TE29 Leonard Pope Ari/9 83.2 15 15.02 245

15.02 TE35 Tony Scheffler Den/4 68.3 0 --- 284

18.15 PK22 Phil Dawson Cle/6 102.1 14 --- 250

17.02 PK23 John Hall Was/8 101.8 14 --- 252

09.02 DEF1 Pittsburgh Pit/4 175.8 71 07.06 120

14.15 DEF14 Minnesota Min/6 143.4 38 13.13 175

renesauz

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

03.03 QB4 Donovan McNabb Phi/9 255.2 161 04.09 25

08.14 QB19 Steve McNair Bal/7 225.3 131 08.14 59

01.03 RB1 Larry Johnson KC/3 316.5 280 01.01 1

04.14 RB30 Deuce McAllister NO/7 117.2 81 04.07 112

09.03 RB41 Greg Jones Jac/6 86.8 51 08.08 148

07.03 RB89 Curtis Martin NYJ/9 19.2 -17 05.16 321

17.03 RB69 Vernand Morency Hou/5 36.8 1 14.16 281

02.14 WR14 Darrell Jackson Sea/5 216.5 142 03.04 48

05.03 WR20 Rod Smith Den/4 195.8 122 05.11 68

11.03 WR51 Brandon Lloyd Was/8 125.7 52 10.10 146

10.14 WR60 Robert Ferguson GB/6 113.6 40 16.08 171

16.14 WR78 Sinorice Moss NYG/4 85.6 11 11.10 261

06.14 TE13 Jerramy Stevens Sea/5 163.8 96 09.16 97

13.03 TE32 Daniel Graham NE/6 72.6 4 --- 270

15.03 PK8 Matt Stover Bal/7 121.1 33 13.14 187

12.14 PK9 John Kasay Car/9 119.8 32 12.05 190

14.14 DEF28 Arizona Ari/9 127 22 15.07 219

18.14 DEF32 Houston Hou/5 105.2 0 --- 283

Jimmy D

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.04 QB9 Trent Green KC/3 246.8 152 06.08 33

06.13 QB15 Ben Roethlisberger Pit/4 237.8 143 07.10 46

01.04 RB6 Clinton Portis Was/8 213 177 01.04 16

02.13 RB19 Warrick Dunn Atl/5 163.5 127 03.02 63

03.04 RB25 Tatum Bell Den/4 134.8 99 03.12 92

10.13 RB44 Duce Staley Pit/4 76.1 40 10.13 168

18.13 RB63 Lee Suggs NYJ/9 50.3 14 16.12 249

05.04 WR18 T.J. Houshmandzadeh Cin/5 201.8 128 04.06 62

09.04 WR44 Joe Jurevicius Cle/6 143.3 69 09.04 123

11.04 WR45 Samie Parker KC/3 139.3 65 12.11 127

08.13 WR64 Jerry Porter Oak/3 106.1 32 07.13 189

14.13 WR99 Mike Williams Det/8 52.2 -22 14.10 340

04.13 TE8 Ben Watson NE/6 181 113 08.05 80

13.04 TE26 Chris Baker NYJ/9 88.1 20 --- 228

16.13 PK18 Olindo Mare Mia/8 105 17 15.15 237

17.04 PK26 John Carney NO/7 100.8 13 --- 256

12.13 DEF9 Miami Mia/8 151.5 46 11.13 159

15.04 DEF11 Green Bay GB/6 148.3 43 16.02 165

gocats

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.05 QB21 Byron Leftwich Jac/6 223.3 129 08.10 61

08.12 QB26 Brad Johnson Min/6 202.1 107 11.05 84

01.05 RB4 Tiki Barber NYG/4 238.8 203 01.05 6

02.12 RB15 Willis McGahee Buf/8 179.3 143 01.16 45

03.05 RB13 Reggie Bush NO/7 179.7 144 02.15 43

11.05 RB62 Michael Bennett KC/3 51.3 15 12.02 244

05.05 WR24 Laveranues Coles NYJ/9 188.5 114 06.07 78

04.12 WR26 Joey Galloway TB/4 186.1 112 04.16 81

06.12 WR35 Koren Robinson Min/6 163.4 89 07.07 106

12.12 WR49 Cedrick Wilson Pit/4 131.3 57 15.11 139

09.05 WR53 Braylon Edwards Cle/6 122.9 49 09.01 151

13.05 WR82 Greg Jennings GB/6 75.9 2 15.08 276

10.12 TE19 Jeb Putzier Hou/5 113.8 45 16.03 161

16.12 TE25 Eric Johnson SF/7 88.2 20 --- 227

17.05 PK24 Rob Bironas Ten/7 101.7 14 --- 253

18.12 PK30 Joe Nedney SF/7 99.2 11 --- 262

15.05 DEF16 Tennessee Ten/7 140.7 36 --- 183

14.12 DEF18 Detroit Det/8 138 33 --- 188

Reaper

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

04.11 QB2 Matt Hasselbeck Sea/5 269.7 175 04.01 18

16.11 QB30 Chad Pennington NYJ/9 161.5 67 13.16 125

01.06 RB5 Steven Jackson StL/7 215 179 01.07 13

02.11 RB17 Kevin Jones Det/8 175.6 139 02.07 51

06.11 RB34 DeAngelo Williams Car/9 99.7 64 05.10 131

07.06 RB33 Laurence Maroney NE/6 100.5 64 06.05 129

03.06 WR13 Reggie Wayne Ind/6 217 143 02.16 47

08.11 WR37 Keyshawn Johnson Car/9 155.8 82 07.12 110

09.06 WR48 Eric Moulds Hou/5 134.2 60 08.13 137

11.06 WR50 Kevin Curtis StL/7 126.4 52 08.15 143

10.11 WR68 Chad Jackson NE/6 97.1 23 11.03 213

13.06 WR65 Troy Williamson Min/6 104.2 30 12.06 195

05.06 TE7 Chris Cooley Was/8 187.7 119 05.15 71

15.06 TE39 Stephen Alexander Den/4 58.2 -10 --- 301

18.11 PK28 Billy Cundiff GB/6 100.4 13 --- 259

17.06 PK31 Kris Brown Hou/5 96.9 9 --- 265

14.11 DEF15 Cincinnati Cin/5 140.8 36 12.03 182

12.11 DEF30 New England NE/6 121.8 17 13.01 238

Bruno2

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

05.07 QB12 Carson Palmer Cin/5 239.9 145 03.07 39

08.10 QB20 Drew Brees NO/7 223.6 129 07.05 60

01.07 RB12 LaMont Jordan Oak/3 181 145 01.08 40

03.07 RB14 Reuben Droughns Cle/6 179.4 143 02.13 44

07.07 RB46 Samkon Gado GB/6 71.9 36 07.15 180

10.10 RB51 Mewelde Moore Min/6 65.4 29 09.03 200

11.07 RB47 Ryan Moats Phi/9 71.9 36 10.06 181

02.10 WR12 Hines Ward Pit/4 225.4 151 03.01 34

06.10 WR27 Matt Jones Jac/6 183.8 110 06.16 82

09.07 WR47 David Givens Ten/7 136.4 62 09.13 135

13.07 WR57 Doug Gabriel Oak/3 120.7 47 13.05 157

18.10 WR98 Devery Henderson NO/7 52.3 -22 --- 339

04.10 TE6 Alge Crumpler Atl/5 188 120 05.05 70

14.10 TE30 Joe Klopfenstein StL/7 81 13 15.12 258

16.10 PK17 Rian Lindell Buf/8 105.5 18 16.01 235

17.07 PK27 Matt Bryant TB/4 100.8 13 --- 257

12.10 DEF20 Philadelphia Phi/9 135.2 30 12.16 198

15.07 DEF24 Buffalo Buf/8 131.7 26 13.09 208

Duckboy

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.08 QB13 Aaron Brooks Oak/3 238.8 144 07.04 41

08.09 QB24 Chris Simms TB/4 212.8 118 10.02 75

01.08 RB9 Cadillac Williams TB/4 191.5 155 01.11 29

02.09 RB23 Domanick Davis Hou/5 139.8 104 02.04 87

03.08 RB18 Jamal Lewis Bal/7 172.2 136 02.14 54

04.09 RB57 Ron Dayne Den/4 58.3 22 05.08 216

05.08 WR25 Muhsin Muhammad Chi/7 187.4 113 07.03 79

06.09 WR29 Terry Glenn Dal/3 177.6 103 07.02 88

09.08 WR42 Mark Clayton Bal/7 147.7 74 09.06 118

14.09 WR83 Justin McCareins NYJ/9 75.8 2 16.10 277

17.08 WR69 Andre Davis Buf/8 97 23 --- 214

18.09 WR94 Charles Rogers Det/8 57.8 -16 14.05 319

12.09 TE21 Desmond Clark Chi/7 109.5 41 --- 166

10.09 TE23 Zach Hilton NO/7 89.4 21 12.09 220

11.08 PK2 Jason Elam Den/4 134.3 46 10.12 158

16.09 PK19 Jason Hanson Det/8 103.6 16 16.05 240

13.08 DEF22 Denver Den/4 132.7 28 13.02 204

15.08 DEF23 Kansas City KC/3 132.5 27 15.06 205

Flying Porkchops

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

06.08 QB10 Jake Plummer Den/4 243.9 149 06.13 36

05.09 QB23 Kurt Warner Ari/9 213.9 119 06.09 72

03.09 RB28 Dominic Rhodes Ind/6 129.9 94 05.06 101

04.08 RB27 Thomas Jones Chi/7 130.2 94 04.13 100

09.09 RB31 Cedric Houston NYJ/9 103.4 67 09.08 124

17.09 RB71 Maurice Jones-Drew Jac/6 35.1 -1 --- 288

14.08 RB93 Jerious Norwood Atl/5 18.1 -18 12.08 328

02.08 WR6 Anquan Boldin Ari/9 252.3 178 02.08 15

08.08 WR33 Keenan McCardell SD/3 164.2 90 08.03 104

07.09 WR31 Michael Clayton TB/4 170.4 96 06.04 96

12.08 WR56 Marty Booker Mia/8 121.2 47 15.10 156

15.09 WR59 Arnaz Battle SF/7 113.9 40 16.09 169

01.09 TE1 Antonio Gates SD/3 292 224 02.11 4

11.09 TE24 Marcedes Lewis Jac/6 88.3 20 13.08 225

16.08 PK21 Sebastian Janikowski Oak/3 102.2 14 15.03 248

18.08 PK29 Stephen Gostkowski NE/6 99.7 12 --- 260

10.08 DEF7 Indianapolis Ind/6 155.2 50 08.11 149

13.09 DEF13 NY Giants NYG/4 143.6 38 09.14 173

nightshift

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

01.10 QB1 Peyton Manning Ind/6 305.4 211 01.14 5

02.07 QB3 Tom Brady NE/6 267.8 173 03.09 19

14.07 RB45 Antowain Smith Hou/5 74.7 39 14.06 172

12.07 RB61 Michael Turner SD/3 52.1 16 11.16 239

17.10 RB60 Tony Fisher StL/7 53.4 17 --- 236

15.10 RB72 Maurice Morris Sea/5 34.1 -2 14.11 289

04.07 WR15 Plaxico Burress NYG/4 213.1 139 03.08 52

05.10 WR23 Eddie Kennison KC/3 188.9 115 06.06 77

13.10 WR63 Travis Taylor Min/6 107.8 34 16.13 186

16.07 WR92 Derek Hagan Mia/8 59.9 -14 --- 311

18.07 WR85 Vincent Jackson SD/3 75.1 1 --- 280

03.10 TE2 Tony Gonzalez KC/3 249.8 182 04.05 11

07.10 TE11 Kellen Winslow Jr Cle/6 170 102 07.09 89

06.07 TE12 Vernon Davis SF/7 169.1 101 07.16 90

10.07 PK1 Adam Vinatieri Ind/6 140.3 52 08.02 142

11.10 PK4 Shayne Graham Cin/5 128.4 41 10.01 167

08.07 DEF2 Carolina Car/9 175.1 70 06.14 122

09.10 DEF3 Chicago Chi/7 169 64 06.01 130

Just Win Baby

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.11 QB17 Brett Favre GB/6 228.8 134 08.01 55

08.06 QB22 Mark Brunell Was/8 218.2 124 10.04 66

01.11 RB8 Ronnie Brown Mia/8 202.7 167 01.09 23

04.06 RB37 Fred Taylor Jac/6 98.8 63 04.11 134

13.11 RB54 Michael Pittman TB/4 61 25 11.08 209

15.11 RB84 Derrick Blaylock NYJ/9 21.7 -14 15.05 313

02.06 WR1 Torry Holt StL/7 263.8 190 02.02 7

06.06 WR28 Lee Evans Buf/8 183.8 110 05.03 83

09.11 WR38 Roddy White Atl/5 152.5 78 10.05 114

14.06 WR67 Antwaan Randle El Was/8 97.2 23 12.14 212

18.06 WR74 Dante Hall KC/3 89.8 16 --- 242

17.11 WR76 Jabar Gaffney Phi/9 88.3 14 16.04 251

03.11 TE3 Todd Heap Bal/7 249.7 181 04.14 12

05.11 TE10 Randy McMichael Mia/8 172.4 104 06.10 86

12.06 PK7 David Akers Phi/9 124.2 36 11.01 179

16.06 PK16 Ryan Longwell Min/6 105.7 18 14.03 234

10.06 DEF4 Tampa Bay TB/4 164.3 59 09.10 138

11.11 DEF5 Baltimore Bal/7 157.2 52 08.09 144

bicycle seat sniffer

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

05.12 QB6 Drew Bledsoe Dal/3 251.3 157 05.09 28

06.05 QB7 Jake Delhomme Car/9 249.8 155 05.04 30

01.12 RB10 Edgerrin James Ari/9 186.6 151 01.06 35

03.12 RB22 DeShaun Foster Car/9 157.1 121 03.11 69

09.12 RB42 Mike Anderson Bal/7 85.5 49 07.14 150

18.05 RB76 Ciatrick Fason Min/6 29 -7 --- 298

02.05 WR8 Randy Moss Oak/3 246.9 173 02.06 20

04.05 WR16 Derrick Mason Bal/7 211.9 138 04.08 53

07.12 WR36 Donte Stallworth NO/7 159.8 86 06.11 107

08.05 WR40 Drew Bennett Ten/7 150.1 76 07.01 116

10.05 WR61 Reche Caldwell NE/6 110.6 36 15.14 178

17.12 WR75 Jerricho Cotchery NYJ/9 88.9 15 --- 246

13.12 TE22 Erron Kinney Ten/7 105.2 37 --- 177

11.12 TE28 Marcus Pollard Det/8 83.6 15 12.01 243

14.05 PK15 Nate Kaeding SD/3 108.1 20 14.09 224

15.12 PK999 Paul Edinger Min/6 0 -2000 9999 2000

12.05 DEF10 Seattle Sea/5 150.1 45 10.08 163

16.05 DEF27 Cleveland Cle/6 127 22 --- 218

Pimpin' Ain't Easy

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

05.13 QB5 Eli Manning NYG/4 251.6 157 04.04 27

06.04 QB8 Marc Bulger StL/7 249 154 04.15 32

09.13 RB48 Mike Bell Den/4 67.1 31 09.05 193

17.13 RB50 Najeh Davenport GB/6 65.6 29 14.04 199

18.04 RB59 William Green Cle/6 54.8 19 --- 232

14.04 RB65 Travis Henry Ten/7 41.3 5 12.07 267

02.04 WR3 Steve Smith Car/9 263 189 01.12 9

01.13 WR5 Terrell Owens Dal/3 252.7 179 01.15 14

08.04 WR41 Isaac Bruce StL/7 148.6 75 09.02 117

07.13 WR46 Nate Burleson Sea/5 139 65 06.12 128

15.13 WR70 Chris Henry Cin/5 95 21 --- 221

11.13 WR91 Ashley Lelie Den/4 61.5 -13 12.13 308

03.13 TE4 Jeremy Shockey NYG/4 236.7 168 03.16 21

04.04 TE5 Jason Witten Dal/3 199.8 132 05.12 57

16.04 PK12 Jeff Wilkins StL/7 117 29 13.03 202

13.13 PK13 Mike Vanderjagt Dal/3 115.6 28 09.11 203

12.04 DEF6 Washington Was/8 156.9 52 10.07 145

10.04 DEF17 Dallas Dal/3 139.2 34 11.02 185

Thrown to the Frogs

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

08.03 QB18 Philip Rivers SD/3 225.5 131 09.15 58

15.14 QB27 Alex Smith SF/7 191.7 97 14.14 94

01.14 RB7 Rudi Johnson Cin/5 204.4 168 01.10 22

02.03 RB11 Brian Westbrook Phi/9 183.1 147 01.13 38

04.03 RB24 Frank Gore SF/7 135.8 100 05.07 91

03.14 RB29 Joseph Addai Ind/6 129.3 93 04.02 102

05.14 RB36 Chris Brown Ten/7 99.2 63 05.13 133

06.03 WR30 Joe Horn NO/7 171.2 97 04.10 93

09.14 WR43 Michael Jenkins Atl/5 146.5 72 14.02 119

11.14 WR54 Eric Parker SD/3 122.7 49 12.15 152

14.03 WR130 David Boston TB/4 21 -53 --- 433

16.03 WR999 Hank Baskett Phi/9 0 -2000 9999 2000

07.14 TE16 Dallas Clark Ind/6 150 82 09.12 111

10.03 TE20 Bubba Franks GB/6 113.2 45 14.07 164

13.14 PK6 Jay Feely NYG/4 126 38 10.15 176

18.03 PK9999 Martin Gramatica NE/6 0 -2000 9999 9999

12.03 DEF12 Atlanta Atl/5 144.8 40 10.14 170

17.14 DEF29 New Orleans NO/7 123.7 19 --- 233

Fiddles

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

07.15 QB14 Jon Kitna Det/8 238.2 144 10.03 42

13.15 QB31 Rex Grossman Chi/7 113.3 19 13.12 231

03.15 RB26 Corey Dillon NE/6 132.7 97 03.10 95

06.02 RB32 Marion Barber III Dal/3 101.6 65 06.15 126

10.02 RB49 T.J. Duckett Atl/5 66.2 30 08.16 196

09.15 RB55 Ladell Betts Was/8 60.1 24 14.01 211

17.15 RB130 Wali Lundy Hou/5 2.8 -33 --- 383

02.02 WR4 Larry Fitzgerald Ari/9 261.3 187 02.03 10

01.15 WR7 Marvin Harrison Ind/6 249.3 175 02.05 17

04.02 WR17 Santana Moss Was/8 206.7 133 03.05 56

11.15 WR66 Corey Bradford Det/8 104.1 30 16.06 197

14.02 WR86 Drew Carter Car/9 74.1 0 --- 285

08.02 TE15 Jermaine Wiggins Min/6 152.3 84 11.14 109

05.15 TE17 Heath Miller Pit/4 146.9 79 07.11 113

12.02 PK3 Neil Rackers Ari/9 133.1 45 08.07 162

16.02 PK14 Josh Scobee Jac/6 108.3 20 --- 222

15.15 DEF25 St. Louis StL/7 129.3 24 --- 210

18.02 DEF31 Oakland Oak/3 106.7 2 --- 278

Dreamers

Pick Pos Player Team Points VBD ADP Overall

18.01 QB28 Charlie Frye Cle/6 188.9 94 12.04 99

17.16 QB32 Kelly Holcomb Buf/8 94.6 0 --- 282

02.01 RB16 Willie Parker Pit/4 177.2 141 02.10 49

03.16 RB38 Cedric Benson Chi/7 97.2 61 04.03 136

05.16 RB39 LenDale White Ten/7 92.4 56 06.02 140

08.01 RB40 Kevan Barlow SF/7 91.4 55 08.06 141

01.16 WR2 Chad Johnson Cin/5 263.7 190 02.01 8

04.01 WR11 Roy Williams Det/8 229.3 155 03.06 31

09.16 WR39 Ernest Wilford Jac/6 152.2 78 09.07 115

11.16 WR52 Bobby Engram Sea/5 125.2&nbs

Can you run that once more with team totals? Thanks!

 

[Tau837]

Here are the final teams from DD:

JiggyonthehutPick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall06.16   QB11	Michael Vick		  Atl/5   243.8   149   06.03  3708.16   QB25	David Carr			Hou/5   210.6   116   09.09  7601.01   RB2	 LaDainian Tomlinson   SD/3	282.9   247   01.03  203.01   RB20	Julius Jones		  Dal/3   159.8   124   02.09  6510.16   RB53	Brandon Jacobs		NYG/4   62.9	27	10.16  20712.16   RB56	Verron Haynes		 Pit/4   58.9	23	14.13  21502.16   WR10	Donald Driver		 GB/6	233.5   159   03.13  2604.16   WR21	Andre Johnson		 Hou/5   192.9   119   03.14  7307.01   WR32	Reggie Brown		  Phi/9   168.5   94	05.14  9809.01   WR34	Antonio Bryant		SF/7	163.8   90	08.12  10514.16   WR77	Santonio Holmes	   Pit/4   87.5	13	13.10  25418.16   WR97	Patrick Crayton	   Dal/3   54.8	-19   ---	33205.01   TE9	 L.J. Smith			Phi/9   175.6   107   07.08  8513.01   TE31	Courtney Anderson	 Oak/3   78	  10	16.07  26415.01   PK11	Lawrence Tynes		KC/3	118.6   31	13.06  19416.16   PK25	Mike Nugent		   NYJ/9   101.2   13	16.14  25511.01   DEF8	Jacksonville		  Jac/6   152.5   47	10.09  15517.01   DEF26   San Francisco		 SF/7	127.1   22	---	217  Jackal King  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.02   QB16	Daunte Culpepper	  Mia/8   235	 140   05.02  5008.15   QB29	Billy Volek		   Ten/7   179.6   85	11.11  10801.02   RB3	 Shaun Alexander	   Sea/5   271.3   235   01.02  303.02   RB21	Chester Taylor		Min/6   158.8   123   03.03  6706.15   RB35	Ahman Green		   GB/6	99.2	63	05.01  13210.15   RB43	Chris Perry		   Cin/5   84.5	48	08.04  15302.15   WR9	 Chris Chambers		Mia/8   238	 164   02.12  2405.02   WR19	Deion Branch		  NE/6	201	 127   04.12  6404.15   WR22	Javon Walker		  Den/4   192.7   119   03.15  7412.15   WR58	Reggie Williams	   Jac/6   119.8   46	13.07  16011.02   WR62	Brandon Stokley	   Ind/6   109.6   35	11.15  18416.15   WR87	Bryant Johnson		Ari/9   70.6	-4	---	29213.02   TE29	Leonard Pope		  Ari/9   83.2	15	15.02  24515.02   TE35	Tony Scheffler		Den/4   68.3	0	 ---	28418.15   PK22	Phil Dawson		   Cle/6   102.1   14	---	25017.02   PK23	John Hall			 Was/8   101.8   14	---	25209.02   DEF1	Pittsburgh			Pit/4   175.8   71	07.06  12014.15   DEF14   Minnesota			 Min/6   143.4   38	13.13  175  renesauz  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall03.03   QB4	 Donovan McNabb		Phi/9   255.2   161   04.09  2508.14   QB19	Steve McNair		  Bal/7   225.3   131   08.14  5901.03   RB1	 Larry Johnson		 KC/3	316.5   280   01.01  104.14   RB30	Deuce McAllister	  NO/7	117.2   81	04.07  11209.03   RB41	Greg Jones			Jac/6   86.8	51	08.08  14807.03   RB89	Curtis Martin		 NYJ/9   19.2	-17   05.16  32117.03   RB69	Vernand Morency	   Hou/5   36.8	1	 14.16  28102.14   WR14	Darrell Jackson	   Sea/5   216.5   142   03.04  4805.03   WR20	Rod Smith			 Den/4   195.8   122   05.11  6811.03   WR51	Brandon Lloyd		 Was/8   125.7   52	10.10  14610.14   WR60	Robert Ferguson	   GB/6	113.6   40	16.08  17116.14   WR78	Sinorice Moss		 NYG/4   85.6	11	11.10  26106.14   TE13	Jerramy Stevens	   Sea/5   163.8   96	09.16  9713.03   TE32	Daniel Graham		 NE/6	72.6	4	 ---	27015.03   PK8	 Matt Stover		   Bal/7   121.1   33	13.14  18712.14   PK9	 John Kasay			Car/9   119.8   32	12.05  19014.14   DEF28   Arizona			   Ari/9   127	 22	15.07  21918.14   DEF32   Houston			   Hou/5   105.2   0	 ---	283  Jimmy D  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.04   QB9	 Trent Green		   KC/3	246.8   152   06.08  3306.13   QB15	Ben Roethlisberger	Pit/4   237.8   143   07.10  4601.04   RB6	 Clinton Portis		Was/8   213	 177   01.04  1602.13   RB19	Warrick Dunn		  Atl/5   163.5   127   03.02  6303.04   RB25	Tatum Bell			Den/4   134.8   99	03.12  9210.13   RB44	Duce Staley		   Pit/4   76.1	40	10.13  16818.13   RB63	Lee Suggs			 NYJ/9   50.3	14	16.12  24905.04   WR18	T.J. Houshmandzadeh   Cin/5   201.8   128   04.06  6209.04   WR44	Joe Jurevicius		Cle/6   143.3   69	09.04  12311.04   WR45	Samie Parker		  KC/3	139.3   65	12.11  12708.13   WR64	Jerry Porter		  Oak/3   106.1   32	07.13  18914.13   WR99	Mike Williams		 Det/8   52.2	-22   14.10  34004.13   TE8	 Ben Watson			NE/6	181	 113   08.05  8013.04   TE26	Chris Baker		   NYJ/9   88.1	20	---	22816.13   PK18	Olindo Mare		   Mia/8   105	 17	15.15  23717.04   PK26	John Carney		   NO/7	100.8   13	---	25612.13   DEF9	Miami				 Mia/8   151.5   46	11.13  15915.04   DEF11   Green Bay			 GB/6	148.3   43	16.02  165  gocats  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.05   QB21	Byron Leftwich		Jac/6   223.3   129   08.10  6108.12   QB26	Brad Johnson		  Min/6   202.1   107   11.05  8401.05   RB4	 Tiki Barber		   NYG/4   238.8   203   01.05  602.12   RB15	Willis McGahee		Buf/8   179.3   143   01.16  4503.05   RB13	Reggie Bush		   NO/7	179.7   144   02.15  4311.05   RB62	Michael Bennett	   KC/3	51.3	15	12.02  24405.05   WR24	Laveranues Coles	  NYJ/9   188.5   114   06.07  7804.12   WR26	Joey Galloway		 TB/4	186.1   112   04.16  8106.12   WR35	Koren Robinson		Min/6   163.4   89	07.07  10612.12   WR49	Cedrick Wilson		Pit/4   131.3   57	15.11  13909.05   WR53	Braylon Edwards	   Cle/6   122.9   49	09.01  15113.05   WR82	Greg Jennings		 GB/6	75.9	2	 15.08  27610.12   TE19	Jeb Putzier		   Hou/5   113.8   45	16.03  16116.12   TE25	Eric Johnson		  SF/7	88.2	20	---	22717.05   PK24	Rob Bironas		   Ten/7   101.7   14	---	25318.12   PK30	Joe Nedney			SF/7	99.2	11	---	26215.05   DEF16   Tennessee			 Ten/7   140.7   36	---	18314.12   DEF18   Detroit			   Det/8   138	 33	---	188  Reaper  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall04.11   QB2	 Matt Hasselbeck	   Sea/5   269.7   175   04.01  1816.11   QB30	Chad Pennington	   NYJ/9   161.5   67	13.16  12501.06   RB5	 Steven Jackson		StL/7   215	 179   01.07  1302.11   RB17	Kevin Jones		   Det/8   175.6   139   02.07  5106.11   RB34	DeAngelo Williams	 Car/9   99.7	64	05.10  13107.06   RB33	Laurence Maroney	  NE/6	100.5   64	06.05  12903.06   WR13	Reggie Wayne		  Ind/6   217	 143   02.16  4708.11   WR37	Keyshawn Johnson	  Car/9   155.8   82	07.12  11009.06   WR48	Eric Moulds		   Hou/5   134.2   60	08.13  13711.06   WR50	Kevin Curtis		  StL/7   126.4   52	08.15  14310.11   WR68	Chad Jackson		  NE/6	97.1	23	11.03  21313.06   WR65	Troy Williamson	   Min/6   104.2   30	12.06  19505.06   TE7	 Chris Cooley		  Was/8   187.7   119   05.15  7115.06   TE39	Stephen Alexander	 Den/4   58.2	-10   ---	30118.11   PK28	Billy Cundiff		 GB/6	100.4   13	---	25917.06   PK31	Kris Brown			Hou/5   96.9	9	 ---	26514.11   DEF15   Cincinnati			Cin/5   140.8   36	12.03  18212.11   DEF30   New England		   NE/6	121.8   17	13.01  238  Bruno2  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall05.07   QB12	Carson Palmer		 Cin/5   239.9   145   03.07  3908.10   QB20	Drew Brees			NO/7	223.6   129   07.05  6001.07   RB12	LaMont Jordan		 Oak/3   181	 145   01.08  4003.07   RB14	Reuben Droughns	   Cle/6   179.4   143   02.13  4407.07   RB46	Samkon Gado		   GB/6	71.9	36	07.15  18010.10   RB51	Mewelde Moore		 Min/6   65.4	29	09.03  20011.07   RB47	Ryan Moats			Phi/9   71.9	36	10.06  18102.10   WR12	Hines Ward			Pit/4   225.4   151   03.01  3406.10   WR27	Matt Jones			Jac/6   183.8   110   06.16  8209.07   WR47	David Givens		  Ten/7   136.4   62	09.13  13513.07   WR57	Doug Gabriel		  Oak/3   120.7   47	13.05  15718.10   WR98	Devery Henderson	  NO/7	52.3	-22   ---	33904.10   TE6	 Alge Crumpler		 Atl/5   188	 120   05.05  7014.10   TE30	Joe Klopfenstein	  StL/7   81	  13	15.12  25816.10   PK17	Rian Lindell		  Buf/8   105.5   18	16.01  23517.07   PK27	Matt Bryant		   TB/4	100.8   13	---	25712.10   DEF20   Philadelphia		  Phi/9   135.2   30	12.16  19815.07   DEF24   Buffalo			   Buf/8   131.7   26	13.09  208  Duckboy  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.08   QB13	Aaron Brooks		  Oak/3   238.8   144   07.04  4108.09   QB24	Chris Simms		   TB/4	212.8   118   10.02  7501.08   RB9	 Cadillac Williams	 TB/4	191.5   155   01.11  2902.09   RB23	Domanick Davis		Hou/5   139.8   104   02.04  8703.08   RB18	Jamal Lewis		   Bal/7   172.2   136   02.14  5404.09   RB57	Ron Dayne			 Den/4   58.3	22	05.08  21605.08   WR25	Muhsin Muhammad	   Chi/7   187.4   113   07.03  7906.09   WR29	Terry Glenn		   Dal/3   177.6   103   07.02  8809.08   WR42	Mark Clayton		  Bal/7   147.7   74	09.06  11814.09   WR83	Justin McCareins	  NYJ/9   75.8	2	 16.10  27717.08   WR69	Andre Davis		   Buf/8   97	  23	---	21418.09   WR94	Charles Rogers		Det/8   57.8	-16   14.05  31912.09   TE21	Desmond Clark		 Chi/7   109.5   41	---	16610.09   TE23	Zach Hilton		   NO/7	89.4	21	12.09  22011.08   PK2	 Jason Elam			Den/4   134.3   46	10.12  15816.09   PK19	Jason Hanson		  Det/8   103.6   16	16.05  24013.08   DEF22   Denver				Den/4   132.7   28	13.02  20415.08   DEF23   Kansas City		   KC/3	132.5   27	15.06  205  Flying Porkchop  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall06.08   QB10	Jake Plummer		  Den/4   243.9   149   06.13  3605.09   QB23	Kurt Warner		   Ari/9   213.9   119   06.09  7203.09   RB28	Dominic Rhodes		Ind/6   129.9   94	05.06  10104.08   RB27	Thomas Jones		  Chi/7   130.2   94	04.13  10009.09   RB31	Cedric Houston		NYJ/9   103.4   67	09.08  12417.09   RB71	Maurice Jones-Drew	Jac/6   35.1	-1	---	28814.08   RB93	Jerious Norwood	   Atl/5   18.1	-18   12.08  32802.08   WR6	 Anquan Boldin		 Ari/9   252.3   178   02.08  1508.08   WR33	Keenan McCardell	  SD/3	164.2   90	08.03  10407.09   WR31	Michael Clayton	   TB/4	170.4   96	06.04  9612.08   WR56	Marty Booker		  Mia/8   121.2   47	15.10  15615.09   WR59	Arnaz Battle		  SF/7	113.9   40	16.09  16901.09   TE1	 Antonio Gates		 SD/3	292	 224   02.11  411.09   TE24	Marcedes Lewis		Jac/6   88.3	20	13.08  22516.08   PK21	Sebastian Janikowski  Oak/3   102.2   14	15.03  24818.08   PK29	Stephen Gostkowski	NE/6	99.7	12	---	26010.08   DEF7	Indianapolis		  Ind/6   155.2   50	08.11  14913.09   DEF13   NY Giants			 NYG/4   143.6   38	09.14  173	nightshift	Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall01.10   QB1	 Peyton Manning		Ind/6   305.4   211   01.14  502.07   QB3	 Tom Brady			 NE/6	267.8   173   03.09  1914.07   RB45	Antowain Smith		Hou/5   74.7	39	14.06  17212.07   RB61	Michael Turner		SD/3	52.1	16	11.16  23917.10   RB60	Tony Fisher		   StL/7   53.4	17	---	23615.10   RB72	Maurice Morris		Sea/5   34.1	-2	14.11  28904.07   WR15	Plaxico Burress	   NYG/4   213.1   139   03.08  5205.10   WR23	Eddie Kennison		KC/3	188.9   115   06.06  7713.10   WR63	Travis Taylor		 Min/6   107.8   34	16.13  18616.07   WR92	Derek Hagan		   Mia/8   59.9	-14   ---	31118.07   WR85	Vincent Jackson	   SD/3	75.1	1	 ---	28003.10   TE2	 Tony Gonzalez		 KC/3	249.8   182   04.05  1107.10   TE11	Kellen Winslow Jr	 Cle/6   170	 102   07.09  8906.07   TE12	Vernon Davis		  SF/7	169.1   101   07.16  9010.07   PK1	 Adam Vinatieri		Ind/6   140.3   52	08.02  14211.10   PK4	 Shayne Graham		 Cin/5   128.4   41	10.01  16708.07   DEF2	Carolina			  Car/9   175.1   70	06.14  12209.10   DEF3	Chicago			   Chi/7   169	 64	06.01  130	Just Win Baby	Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.11   QB17	Brett Favre		   GB/6	228.8   134   08.01  5508.06   QB22	Mark Brunell		  Was/8   218.2   124   10.04  6601.11   RB8	 Ronnie Brown		  Mia/8   202.7   167   01.09  2304.06   RB37	Fred Taylor		   Jac/6   98.8	63	04.11  13413.11   RB54	Michael Pittman	   TB/4	61	  25	11.08  20915.11   RB84	Derrick Blaylock	  NYJ/9   21.7	-14   15.05  31302.06   WR1	 Torry Holt			StL/7   263.8   190   02.02  706.06   WR28	Lee Evans			 Buf/8   183.8   110   05.03  8309.11   WR38	Roddy White		   Atl/5   152.5   78	10.05  11414.06   WR67	Antwaan Randle El	 Was/8   97.2	23	12.14  21218.06   WR74	Dante Hall			KC/3	89.8	16	---	24217.11   WR76	Jabar Gaffney		 Phi/9   88.3	14	16.04  25103.11   TE3	 Todd Heap			 Bal/7   249.7   181   04.14  1205.11   TE10	Randy McMichael	   Mia/8   172.4   104   06.10  8612.06   PK7	 David Akers		   Phi/9   124.2   36	11.01  17916.06   PK16	Ryan Longwell		 Min/6   105.7   18	14.03  23410.06   DEF4	Tampa Bay			 TB/4	164.3   59	09.10  13811.11   DEF5	 Baltimore			 Bal/7   157.2   52	08.09  144  bicycle seat sniffer  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall05.12   QB6	 Drew Bledsoe		  Dal/3   251.3   157   05.09  2806.05   QB7	 Jake Delhomme		 Car/9   249.8   155   05.04  3001.12   RB10	Edgerrin James		Ari/9   186.6   151   01.06  3503.12   RB22	DeShaun Foster		Car/9   157.1   121   03.11  6909.12   RB42	Mike Anderson		 Bal/7   85.5	49	07.14  15018.05   RB76	Ciatrick Fason		Min/6   29	  -7	---	29802.05   WR8	 Randy Moss			Oak/3   246.9   173   02.06  2004.05   WR16	Derrick Mason		 Bal/7   211.9   138   04.08  5307.12   WR36	Donte Stallworth	  NO/7	159.8   86	06.11  10708.05   WR40	Drew Bennett		  Ten/7   150.1   76	07.01  11610.05   WR61	Reche Caldwell		NE/6	110.6   36	15.14  17817.12   WR75	Jerricho Cotchery	 NYJ/9   88.9	15	---	24613.12   TE22	Erron Kinney		  Ten/7   105.2   37	---	17711.12   TE28	Marcus Pollard		Det/8   83.6	15	12.01  24314.05   PK15	Nate Kaeding		  SD/3	108.1   20	14.09  22415.12   PK999   Paul Edinger		  Min/6   0	   -2000 9999   200012.05   DEF10   Seattle			   Sea/5   150.1   45	10.08  16316.05   DEF27   Cleveland			 Cle/6   127	 22	---	218  Pimpin' Ain't Easy  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall05.13   QB5	 Eli Manning		   NYG/4   251.6   157   04.04  2706.04   QB8	 Marc Bulger		   StL/7   249	 154   04.15  3209.13   RB48	Mike Bell			 Den/4   67.1	31	09.05  19317.13   RB50	Najeh Davenport	   GB/6	65.6	29	14.04  19918.04   RB59	William Green		 Cle/6   54.8	19	---	23214.04   RB65	Travis Henry		  Ten/7   41.3	5	 12.07  26702.04   WR3	 Steve Smith		   Car/9   263	 189   01.12  901.13   WR5	 Terrell Owens		 Dal/3   252.7   179   01.15  1408.04   WR41	Isaac Bruce		   StL/7   148.6   75	09.02  11707.13   WR46	Nate Burleson		 Sea/5   139	 65	06.12  12815.13   WR70	Chris Henry		   Cin/5   95	  21	---	22111.13   WR91	Ashley Lelie		  Den/4   61.5	-13   12.13  30803.13   TE4	 Jeremy Shockey		NYG/4   236.7   168   03.16  2104.04   TE5	 Jason Witten		  Dal/3   199.8   132   05.12  5716.04   PK12	Jeff Wilkins		  StL/7   117	 29	13.03  20213.13   PK13	Mike Vanderjagt	   Dal/3   115.6   28	09.11  20312.04   DEF6	Washington			Was/8   156.9   52	10.07  14510.04   DEF17   Dallas				Dal/3   139.2   34	11.02  185  Thrown to the Frogs  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall08.03   QB18	Philip Rivers		 SD/3	225.5   131   09.15  5815.14   QB27	Alex Smith			SF/7	191.7   97	14.14  9401.14   RB7	 Rudi Johnson		  Cin/5   204.4   168   01.10  2202.03   RB11	Brian Westbrook	   Phi/9   183.1   147   01.13  3804.03   RB24	Frank Gore			SF/7	135.8   100   05.07  9103.14   RB29	Joseph Addai		  Ind/6   129.3   93	04.02  10205.14   RB36	Chris Brown		   Ten/7   99.2	63	05.13  13306.03   WR30	Joe Horn			  NO/7	171.2   97	04.10  9309.14   WR43	Michael Jenkins	   Atl/5   146.5   72	14.02  11911.14   WR54	Eric Parker		   SD/3	122.7   49	12.15  15214.03   WR130   David Boston		  TB/4	21	  -53   ---	43316.03   WR999   Hank Baskett		  Phi/9   0	   -2000 9999   200007.14   TE16	Dallas Clark		  Ind/6   150	 82	09.12  11110.03   TE20	Bubba Franks		  GB/6	113.2   45	14.07  16413.14   PK6	 Jay Feely			 NYG/4   126	 38	10.15  17618.03   PK9999  Martin Gramatica	  NE/6	0	   -2000 9999   999912.03   DEF12   Atlanta			   Atl/5   144.8   40	10.14  17017.14   DEF29   New Orleans		   NO/7	123.7   19	---	233  Fiddles  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall07.15   QB14	Jon Kitna			 Det/8   238.2   144   10.03  4213.15   QB31	Rex Grossman		  Chi/7   113.3   19	13.12  23103.15   RB26	Corey Dillon		  NE/6	132.7   97	03.10  9506.02   RB32	Marion Barber III	 Dal/3   101.6   65	06.15  12610.02   RB49	T.J. Duckett		  Atl/5   66.2	30	08.16  19609.15   RB55	Ladell Betts		  Was/8   60.1	24	14.01  21117.15   RB130   Wali Lundy			Hou/5   2.8	 -33   ---	38302.02   WR4	 Larry Fitzgerald	  Ari/9   261.3   187   02.03  1001.15   WR7	 Marvin Harrison	   Ind/6   249.3   175   02.05  1704.02   WR17	Santana Moss		  Was/8   206.7   133   03.05  5611.15   WR66	Corey Bradford		Det/8   104.1   30	16.06  19714.02   WR86	Drew Carter		   Car/9   74.1	0	 ---	28508.02   TE15	Jermaine Wiggins	  Min/6   152.3   84	11.14  10905.15   TE17	Heath Miller		  Pit/4   146.9   79	07.11  11312.02   PK3	 Neil Rackers		  Ari/9   133.1   45	08.07  16216.02   PK14	Josh Scobee		   Jac/6   108.3   20	---	22215.15   DEF25   St. Louis			 StL/7   129.3   24	---	21018.02   DEF31   Oakland			   Oak/3   106.7   2	 ---	278  Dreamers  Pick	Pos	 Player				Team	Points  VBD   ADP	Overall18.01   QB28	Charlie Frye		  Cle/6   188.9   94	12.04  9917.16   QB32	Kelly Holcomb		 Buf/8   94.6	0	 ---	28202.01   RB16	Willie Parker		 Pit/4   177.2   141   02.10  4903.16   RB38	Cedric Benson		 Chi/7   97.2	61	04.03  13605.16   RB39	LenDale White		 Ten/7   92.4	56	06.02  14008.01   RB40	Kevan Barlow		  SF/7	91.4	55	08.06  14101.16   WR2	 Chad Johnson		  Cin/5   263.7   190   02.01  804.01   WR11	Roy Williams		  Det/8   229.3   155   03.06  3109.16   WR39	Ernest Wilford		Jac/6   152.2   78	09.07  11511.16   WR52	Bobby Engram		  Sea/5   125.2   51	13.11  14710.01   WR55	Amani Toomer		  NYG/4   122.2   48	11.04  15415.16   WR79	Mark Bradley		  Chi/7   84.7	11	16.11  26306.01   TE14	Ben Troupe			Ten/7   159.2   91	10.11  10307.16   TE18	Alex Smith			TB/4	138.6   70	12.10  12112.01   PK5	 Josh Brown			Sea/5   126.2   38	11.09  17413.16   PK10	Jeff Reed			 Pit/4   119.7   32	13.15  19114.01   DEF19   San Diego			 SD/3	136.8   32	14.15  19216.01   DEF21   NY Jets			   NYJ/9   134.4   29	---	201

I'll add comments on my team and general strategy comments later.

 

[Tau837]

Can you run that once more with team totals? Thanks!

nightshift, the team totals for fantasy points and VBD are in my post just above yours.Also, suggest you edit your post to delete the giant quote.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

on the edinger pick.

man i thought he was still in Minny. oops

-2000 VBD