Another killing at the hands of the Police (8 Viewers)

[BustedKnuckles]

Donkey Durp is a cop who thinks shooting people in the back is acceptable...thats the only reasonable explanation i can think of for his narrow view of this issue

I am not a cop. Your response sounds like it comes from Tobias' school of logic that something is spun to feed the media epidemic of reporting officer involved shootings. You can pose a threat to someone and still be shot in the back. Perhaps it is unlikely, but it can't be ruled out like everyone wants to do before the facts come out.

Exactly - a backwards bull rush is a scary thing!

lol. Not that hard to turn slightly, have a gun pointed backwards over your shoulder, and get shot in the back. It's really not.

Mall cop who WANTS to be a real cop ?

 

[Short Corner]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

 

[Donkey Derp]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

 

[urbanhack]

Donkey Durp is a cop who thinks shooting people in the back is acceptable...thats the only reasonable explanation i can think of for his narrow view of this issue

I am not a cop. Your response sounds like it comes from Tobias' school of logic that something is spun to feed the media epidemic of reporting officer involved shootings. You can pose a threat to someone and still be shot in the back. Perhaps it is unlikely, but it can't be ruled out like everyone wants to do before the facts come out.

Welcome back Tso.

 

[whoknew]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Its not an either/or thing. Its all tied in together.

And demanding police accountability, investigations, protesting poor treatment does not equal "pushing the police away." The protestors are demanding better police - not no police.

So if violent crime is up, the police play a major role in that. They can't escape blame.

 

[igbomb]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Can you stop making absurd statements with such a broad brush?

"stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists"

"only outrage comes when police officers shoot someone"

"immediately vilifying cops every time someone is shot by an officer"

Are there people that think all cops are racists and no shootings are justified? Or course there are. But to suggest that anything approaching a significant number of people feel this way is flat simplistic. SOME cops are racist jerks, maybe even a lot. SOME shootings are not justified, maybe even a lot. It's ok to be pissed about those things and want change.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Donkey Durp is a cop who thinks shooting people in the back is acceptable...thats the only reasonable explanation i can think of for his narrow view of this issue

I am not a cop. Your response sounds like it comes from Tobias' school of logic that something is spun to feed the media epidemic of reporting officer involved shootings. You can pose a threat to someone and still be shot in the back. Perhaps it is unlikely, but it can't be ruled out like everyone wants to do before the facts come out.

Not only is this not my school of logic, I don't even know what it means.

Also I don't think this is a General Tso alias. If it is it's just the General engaging his baser and more careless inclinations through an alias. The General could form coherent sentences and understand and address the arguments of others in a reasonable way, and he didn't call me out for no reason in discussions I wasn't participating in. Or maybe I'm just remembering him through rose-colored glasses.

 

[lod01]

Baltimore Cop charged with attempted murder.

"While Leary and Smith were covering him with their guns drawn, Mosby said, Cagle walked in and stood over him with his gun drawn. The man said to Cagle, "What did you shoot me with, a beanbag?"

According to Mosby, Cagle replied: "No, a .40-caliber, you piece of [expletive]," and fired one shot."

First I heard of this incident. Looks like it happened back in December. Didn't seem to make it onto CNN. Didn't even see any riots. So odd. Oh wait, the thief was white. Moving on, nothing to see here. White lives....um...whatever.

 

[Donkey Derp]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Its not an either/or thing. Its all tied in together.

And demanding police accountability, investigations, protesting poor treatment does not equal "pushing the police away." The protestors are demanding better police - not no police.

So if violent crime is up, the police play a major role in that. They can't escape blame.

 

[Donkey Derp]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Can you stop making absurd statements with such a broad brush?

"stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists"

"only outrage comes when police officers shoot someone"

"immediately vilifying cops every time someone is shot by an officer"

Are there people that think all cops are racists and no shootings are justified? Or course there are. But to suggest that anything approaching a significant number of people feel this way is flat simplistic. SOME cops are racist jerks, maybe even a lot. SOME shootings are not justified, maybe even a lot. It's ok to be pissed about those things and want change.

Opinon of cops, not mine:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/

(CNN)A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective who was pistol-whipped unconscious said Friday that he hesitated to use force because he didn't want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man.

"A lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media," said the officer, who asked to remain anonymous for the safety of his family. "I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now."

Details of last week's incident in the Birmingham enclave of Roebuck remain sketchy -- such as how did the suspect get the officer's weapon -- but the six-year police veteran said he didn't shoot the man who attacked him during a traffic stop because of the outcry surrounding a spate of police shootings nationally.

"We don't want to be in the media," he said. "It's hard times right now for us."

Heath Boackle, a sergeant with the Birmingham Police Department and president of the city's Fraternal Order of Police, said Thursday that cops are "walking on eggshells because of how they're scrutinized in the media."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-fop-statement-20150528-story.html

The president of the Baltimore police union on Thursday said that criminals have become "empowered" following the recent unrest and that, with six officers charged in Freddie Gray's death, city police are more "afraid" of being arrested than shot on duty.


Gray, 25, died a week after suffering a severed spinal cord and other injuries in police custody. His death led to more than a week of protests and later rioting, that prompted a citywide curfew and the deployment of the National Guard.

"The criminals are taking advantage of the situation in Baltimore since the unrest," said Gene Ryan, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 3. "Criminals feel empowered now. There is no respect. Police are under siege in every quarter. They are more afraid of going to jail for doing their jobs properly than they are of getting shot on duty."

 

[whoknew]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Its not an either/or thing. Its all tied in together.

And demanding police accountability, investigations, protesting poor treatment does not equal "pushing the police away." The protestors are demanding better police - not no police.

So if violent crime is up, the police play a major role in that. They can't escape blame.

I'm not sure why that is funny. We hold public officials and police accountable for rises in crime all the time.

 

[Short Corner]

Baltimore Cop charged with attempted murder.

"While Leary and Smith were covering him with their guns drawn, Mosby said, Cagle walked in and stood over him with his gun drawn. The man said to Cagle, "What did you shoot me with, a beanbag?"

According to Mosby, Cagle replied: "No, a .40-caliber, you piece of [expletive]," and fired one shot."

First I heard of this incident. Looks like it happened back in December. Didn't seem to make it onto CNN. Didn't even see any riots. So odd. Oh wait, the thief was white. Moving on, nothing to see here. White lives....um...whatever.

They matter enough to get charges. If he was black the cop would have been suspended for a week with pay.

 

[CBusAlex]

"They are more afraid of going to jail for doing their jobs properly than they are of getting shot on duty."

So even the cops think they're more of a danger to the public than the criminals are to them? Yikes.

 

[igbomb]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Can you stop making absurd statements with such a broad brush?

"stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists"

"only outrage comes when police officers shoot someone"

"immediately vilifying cops every time someone is shot by an officer"

Are there people that think all cops are racists and no shootings are justified? Or course there are. But to suggest that anything approaching a significant number of people feel this way is flat simplistic. SOME cops are racist jerks, maybe even a lot. SOME shootings are not justified, maybe even a lot. It's ok to be pissed about those things and want change.

Opinon of cops, not mine:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/

(CNN)A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective who was pistol-whipped unconscious said Friday that he hesitated to use force because he didn't want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man.

"A lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media," said the officer, who asked to remain anonymous for the safety of his family. "I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now."

Details of last week's incident in the Birmingham enclave of Roebuck remain sketchy -- such as how did the suspect get the officer's weapon -- but the six-year police veteran said he didn't shoot the man who attacked him during a traffic stop because of the outcry surrounding a spate of police shootings nationally.

"We don't want to be in the media," he said. "It's hard times right now for us."

Heath Boackle, a sergeant with the Birmingham Police Department and president of the city's Fraternal Order of Police, said Thursday that cops are "walking on eggshells because of how they're scrutinized in the media."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-fop-statement-20150528-story.html

The president of the Baltimore police union on Thursday said that criminals have become "empowered" following the recent unrest and that, with six officers charged in Freddie Gray's death, city police are more "afraid" of being arrested than shot on duty.


Gray, 25, died a week after suffering a severed spinal cord and other injuries in police custody. His death led to more than a week of protests and later rioting, that prompted a citywide curfew and the deployment of the National Guard.

"The criminals are taking advantage of the situation in Baltimore since the unrest," said Gene Ryan, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 3. "Criminals feel empowered now. There is no respect. Police are under siege in every quarter. They are more afraid of going to jail for doing their jobs properly than they are of getting shot on duty."

You reap what you sow. Are you suggesting that we stay quiet while cops abuse their power because it might make innocent cops jobs harder? They need to internally get their crap together. If the unions or different police associations showed any sign of being willing to police themselves instead of just putting up the blue shield, the atmosphere may get a little more collaborative.

Instead, every cop I know just wants to ignore the bad stuff and post on facebook about all of the times cops get the raw end.

What's lost on clowns like you is that this is not an either-or proposition. The fact that bad stuff happens to cops doesn't allow them the freedom from criticism when they don't toe the line. And calling out bad behavior doesn't in any way suggest that we a) don't care about the difficulties in their profession, b) don't care about people hurting cops and c) don't appreciate what they do.

 

[lod01]

Baltimore Cop charged with attempted murder.

"While Leary and Smith were covering him with their guns drawn, Mosby said, Cagle walked in and stood over him with his gun drawn. The man said to Cagle, "What did you shoot me with, a beanbag?"

According to Mosby, Cagle replied: "No, a .40-caliber, you piece of [expletive]," and fired one shot."

First I heard of this incident. Looks like it happened back in December. Didn't seem to make it onto CNN. Didn't even see any riots. So odd. Oh wait, the thief was white. Moving on, nothing to see here. White lives....um...whatever.

They matter enough to get charges. If he was black the cop would have been suspended for a week with pay.

Ditto for this guy. It took until Aug.19th to charge him. You see, black - white, doesn't matter. He was still being paid all this time and the victim was white. You have just been

It's possible he wasn't even going to get charged with anything .....if the other Baltimore incident didn't happen....for shooting a white dude.

Cagle was placed on routine administrative leave following the incident in December of 2014. In early January, Cagle’s police powers were suspended. On August 19, 2015, Cagle was charged criminally and suspended without pay from the Baltimore Police Department.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Baltimore Cop charged with attempted murder.

"While Leary and Smith were covering him with their guns drawn, Mosby said, Cagle walked in and stood over him with his gun drawn. The man said to Cagle, "What did you shoot me with, a beanbag?"

According to Mosby, Cagle replied: "No, a .40-caliber, you piece of [expletive]," and fired one shot."

First I heard of this incident. Looks like it happened back in December. Didn't seem to make it onto CNN. Didn't even see any riots. So odd. Oh wait, the thief was white. Moving on, nothing to see here. White lives....um...whatever.

They matter enough to get charges. If he was black the cop would have been suspended for a week with pay.

You are correct, if the cop were black he probably would have only got suspended for a week with pay.

 

[Donkey Derp]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Its not an either/or thing. Its all tied in together.

And demanding police accountability, investigations, protesting poor treatment does not equal "pushing the police away." The protestors are demanding better police - not no police.

So if violent crime is up, the police play a major role in that. They can't escape blame.

I'm not sure why that is funny. We hold public officials and police accountable for rises in crime all the time.

According to the Baltimore Sun, here are Baltimore's homicide rates since 2007 (oldest year available):

2007 - 282

2008 - 234

2009 - 240

2010 - 224

2011 - 197

2012 - 217

2013 - 235

2014 - 211

2015 - 214 (that is on pace for 335)

There were 79 homicides from 1/1-4/30. Here are the homicides from May:

May 2015 - 42

June 2015 - 23

July 2015 - 45

August 2015 - 25 (pace for 37)

To put into perspective May and July, here are the highest homicide months since 1971:

7/15 - 45

8/72 - 45

12/71 - 44

5/15 - 42

8/90 - 42

So, in the past 45 years, two of the highest homicide months came after the riots (we aren't even through the fourth month yet).

Baltimore fired their police chief on July 8th ONLY to have July tie a 45 year old monthly homicide record. Police don't want to be proactive in cities they are NOT wanted and it is obvious the consequences. But keep blaming the police lol...

 

[TobiasFunke]

No way in hell DD isn't a General Tso alias.

No, I think there are bigger issues that people should spend their efforts on. Violent crime is up in a number of large cities and people want to keep pushing the police away. The police aren't perfect by any means but stereotyping all cops to be negligent racists is causing a lot of innocent people to die (see again the homicide rates for this year vs. last year). Time should be spent on figuring out we can prevent more Jamyla Boldens from getting shot.

Its not an either/or thing. Its all tied in together.

And demanding police accountability, investigations, protesting poor treatment does not equal "pushing the police away." The protestors are demanding better police - not no police.

So if violent crime is up, the police play a major role in that. They can't escape blame.

I'm not sure why that is funny. We hold public officials and police accountable for rises in crime all the time.

According to the Baltimore Sun, here are Baltimore's homicide rates since 2007 (oldest year available):

2007 - 282

2008 - 234

2009 - 240

2010 - 224

2011 - 197

2012 - 217

2013 - 235

2014 - 211

2015 - 214 (that is on pace for 335)

There were 79 homicides from 1/1-4/30. Here are the homicides from May:

May 2015 - 42

June 2015 - 23

July 2015 - 45

August 2015 - 25 (pace for 37)

To put into perspective May and July, here are the highest homicide months since 1971:

7/15 - 45

8/72 - 45

12/71 - 44

5/15 - 42

8/90 - 42

So, in the past 45 years, two of the highest homicide months came after the riots (we aren't even through the fourth month yet).

Baltimore fired their police chief on July 8th ONLY to have July tie a 45 year old monthly homicide record. Police don't want to be proactive in cities they are NOT wanted and it is obvious the consequences. But keep blaming the police lol...

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

 

[lod01]

Baltimore Cop charged with attempted murder.

"While Leary and Smith were covering him with their guns drawn, Mosby said, Cagle walked in and stood over him with his gun drawn. The man said to Cagle, "What did you shoot me with, a beanbag?"

According to Mosby, Cagle replied: "No, a .40-caliber, you piece of [expletive]," and fired one shot."

First I heard of this incident. Looks like it happened back in December. Didn't seem to make it onto CNN. Didn't even see any riots. So odd. Oh wait, the thief was white. Moving on, nothing to see here. White lives....um...whatever.

They matter enough to get charges. If he was black the cop would have been suspended for a week with pay.

You are correct, if the cop were black he probably would have only got suspended for a week with pay.

I already destroyed his weakass post.

 

[Donkey Derp]

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

What? It isn't just the Baltimore/DC metro area. Homicide rates are up across the nation. They are clearly up in the cities since the three highest profile officer involved deaths in St. Louis, Baltimore, and New York. Police no longer have incentive to be proactive in their communities especially those with high crime rates. Honestly, if certain communities don't want the police presence in their neighborhood, let them continue to see the consequences of that mentality.

 

[TobiasFunke]

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

What? It isn't just the Baltimore/DC metro area. Homicide rates are up across the nation. They are clearly up in the cities since the three highest profile officer involved deaths in St. Louis, Baltimore, and New York. Police no longer have incentive to be proactive in their communities especially those with high crime rates. Honestly, if certain communities don't want the police presence in their neighborhood, let them continue to see the consequences of that mentality.

Take it easy, man. It was just an observation.

Still, there is so so so much wrong with your post. Police don't have an incentive to be proactive in their communities? How about doing their jobs?

And your inability to understand the difference between correlation and causation is stunning. If homicide rates are up across the nation, including in places where the police are still proactive in the communities and maintain an excellent reputation and relationship with the public (like for example in DC, which is why I included that link), doesn't that suggest pretty strongly that the cause of the spike in homicide rates is not entirely or even primarily due to increased scrutiny on police use of force? That maybe there's something else going on?

 

[TobiasFunke]

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

Who's doing all the killing?

What do I look like, Columbo?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Autopsy: St. Louis man killed by police was shot in back

ST. LOUIS — The man who was fatally shot by police officers Wednesday died from a single gunshot wound to the back, a preliminary autopsy has confirmed.

Mansur Ball-Bey, 18, was shot and killed by police officers while they were executing a warrant at a home in the north part of St. Louis.

Police say two men armed with guns fled out the back door as officers were about to enter the house. Officers say Ball-Bey was armed with a firearm with an extended magazine, and the other suspect, a man in his mid- to late-teens, was armed with two guns and was in possession of crack cocaine.

As the suspects fled, officers in the alley near the house ordered them to stop and drop their weapons. Police say Ball-Bey then turned and pointed a gun at the officers.

Four guns, including the gun dropped by Ball-Bey, and "a quantity" of crack cocaine were recovered from the house. Police say three of the four weapons were stolen, including the gun Ball-Bey was holding. After further investigation, police say the gun recovered from Ball-Bey had been reported stolen from Rolla, Mo.

One person has been arrested since the incident. Roderick Williams faces charges for unlawful possession of a firearm. Officers say Williams is not the other man who fled the home with Ball-Bey. Williams' bond has been set at $50,000 cash.

In a statement released Friday, the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department said, "The results of the autopsy along with witness statements and forensic evidence, obtained during the (Force Investigative Unit) investigation, will be included in a final report." The report will then be sent to the circuit attorney for the city who will conduct a review of the facts in the case.

Police statements clash with statements from Ball-Bey's family attorney, who says witnesses told him Ball-Bey was unarmed.

A University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist, David Klinger, said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it constitutional for police to shoot someone in the back if they believe that person could be a threat.

Ball-Bey's death triggered a series of protests that have been violent at times. Crowds began to gather Wednesday afternoon, shortly after the shooting. On Wednesday night, police said some vacant buildings and a car were set on fire. Several businesses also reported burglaries. Nine people were arrested.

 

[Donkey Derp]

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

What? It isn't just the Baltimore/DC metro area. Homicide rates are up across the nation. They are clearly up in the cities since the three highest profile officer involved deaths in St. Louis, Baltimore, and New York. Police no longer have incentive to be proactive in their communities especially those with high crime rates. Honestly, if certain communities don't want the police presence in their neighborhood, let them continue to see the consequences of that mentality.

Take it easy, man. It was just an observation.

Still, there is so so so much wrong with your post. Police don't have an incentive to be proactive in their communities? How about doing their jobs?

And your inability to understand the difference between correlation and causation is stunning. If homicide rates are up across the nation, including in places where the police are still proactive in the communities and maintain an excellent reputation and relationship with the public (like for example in DC, which is why I included that link), doesn't that suggest pretty strongly that the cause of the spike in homicide rates is not entirely or even primarily due to increased scrutiny on police use of force? That maybe there's something else going on?

lol Police have been doing an incredible job making America safer. Look at the obvious downward trends in violent crimes:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1994-2013.xls

Apparently there is a name for this already called the "Ferguson Effect":

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

Your example is Washington DC (using your link): "The number of murders is now climbing, but it's nowhere near what it was."

My example is Baltimore: historically high May and July 2015, projected to finish with 50% higher homicides in 2015 than 2014 and rates the highest seen in FORTY years.



I'm not a statistics wizard like yourself, but it seems like when the police are proactive you see historic lows in DC like in 2012. When the police aren't wanted in their community, you see historic highs like in Baltimore. Excellent counterargument.

By the way, I will whatever "maybe" reason you can come up with. Since you probably don't have a really good one, I am sure you will judge dodge the question...

 

[TobiasFunke]

FWIW murders have spiked in DC too, 45 minutes away and with a police chief and police force that have a great reputation with the public and there haven't been any high profile allegations of police brutality or racial profiling. There's obviously something going on in the area that is causing the murders to spike that has nothing to do with the police doing their jobs or not doing their jobs.

What? It isn't just the Baltimore/DC metro area. Homicide rates are up across the nation. They are clearly up in the cities since the three highest profile officer involved deaths in St. Louis, Baltimore, and New York. Police no longer have incentive to be proactive in their communities especially those with high crime rates. Honestly, if certain communities don't want the police presence in their neighborhood, let them continue to see the consequences of that mentality.

Take it easy, man. It was just an observation.

Still, there is so so so much wrong with your post. Police don't have an incentive to be proactive in their communities? How about doing their jobs?

And your inability to understand the difference between correlation and causation is stunning. If homicide rates are up across the nation, including in places where the police are still proactive in the communities and maintain an excellent reputation and relationship with the public (like for example in DC, which is why I included that link), doesn't that suggest pretty strongly that the cause of the spike in homicide rates is not entirely or even primarily due to increased scrutiny on police use of force? That maybe there's something else going on?

lol Police have been doing an incredible job making America safer. Look at the obvious downward trends in violent crimes:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/1tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_1_crime_in_the_united_states_by_volume_and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1994-2013.xls

Apparently there is a name for this already called the "Ferguson Effect":

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

Your example is Washington DC (using your link): "The number of murders is now climbing, but it's nowhere near what it was."

My example is Baltimore: historically high May and July 2015, projected to finish with 50% higher homicides in 2015 than 2014 and rates the highest seen in FORTY years.



I'm not a statistics wizard like yourself, but it seems like when the police are proactive you see historic lows in DC like in 2012. When the police aren't wanted in their community, you see historic highs like in Baltimore. Excellent counterargument.

By the way, I will whatever "maybe" reason you can come up with. Since you probably don't have a really good one, I am sure you will judge dodge the question...

I don't even know where to start with all the things wrong with this. The numbers are cherry-picked to a surreal extent, comparing months with years and bouncing between violent crime rates and homicide rates among other things. You cite to an opinion piece as hard evidence. And most importantly by far, you ignore the simple irrefutable fact that as the person claiming causation the burden is on you, not me, to make your case. And you haven't done so at all.

Maybe there is a causal connection between the increased scrutiny and the increased crime rate, maybe there isn't. But you have to make that case, not just show a correlation.

And even if there is, isn't that on the police? It's their job to protect public safety within the confines of the Constitution and our laws. If they let increased attention on their work keep them from doing it, that's their problem. I'd say the burden is on them to find a way to do their jobs without running afoul of the law and accountability to the people they serve, not on us to turn the other way when they adopt questionable tactics.

 

[Donkey Derp]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/08/19/homicide-total-rises-97-after-deadly-day-dc/31961261/

Washington DC: 97 homicides so far this year (up 30%) according to the news blurb. According to google, Washington DC has a population of 658k

Baltimore: 215 homicides so far this year (up 50%). According to google, Baltimore has a population of 622k

I definite suck at math since those are considered to be equal lol

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/08/19/homicide-total-rises-97-after-deadly-day-dc/31961261/

Washington DC: 97 homicides so far this year (up 30%) according to the news blurb. According to google, Washington DC has a population of 658k

Baltimore: 215 homicides so far this year (up 50%). According to google, Baltimore has a population of 622k

I definite suck at math since those are considered to be equal lol

I don't know if you suck at math. I mean it's certainly possible since you very clearly suck at logic and at reading comprehension, which suggests maybe you're not very bright generally speaking. But let's not jump to conclusions.

 

[Donkey Derp]

135 people killed in Baltimore in four months since the riots where police aren't wanted.

97 people killed in Washington DC in all of 2015

#equalmath

 

[Donkey Derp]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/08/19/homicide-total-rises-97-after-deadly-day-dc/31961261/

Washington DC: 97 homicides so far this year (up 30%) according to the news blurb. According to google, Washington DC has a population of 658k

Baltimore: 215 homicides so far this year (up 50%). According to google, Baltimore has a population of 622k

I definite suck at math since those are considered to be equal lol

I don't know if you suck at math. I mean it's certainly possible since you very clearly suck at logic and at reading comprehension, which suggests maybe you're not very bright generally speaking. But let's not jump to conclusions.

Attack my intelligence because I destroyed your argument.

 

[Donkey Derp]

As of June 30th, St. Louis recorded 92 homicides compared to 58 at the same time last year. That is a 58.6% increase on pace for the highest homicide rate in TWENTY years.

From July 1-August 12th they recorded 34 more homicides.

The population of St. Louis is only 319k

#math

 

[avoiding injuries]

I can tell you what they are speculating locally. It's a "perfect storm".

1. Surplus of drugs on the street that were stolen during the riots. Rival gangs are killing each other and robbing for the drugs and money.

2. Multiple gang leaders were arrested and a couple were killed earlier this year. This was separate from the Freddie case. Because of this, there is a current turf war going on.

3. Police inactivity are allowing 1 and 2 to boil over.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

 

[Donkey Derp]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

Another (not really) solid contribution from you...

 

[jonessed]

I think it's best if the police just do investigative work in these areas. No sense in being proactive in communities that aren't supportive.

If you aren't around to shoot armed drug dealers then you can't get blamed for their deaths. Best to spend time protecting communities that want a police presence.

 

[Donkey Derp]

i love when a bunch of white internet guys get together and talk about why black people do what they do lol

What about an amazing black woman? warning language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7mZQvaQDk

 

[BustedKnuckles]

i love when a bunch of white internet guys get together and talk about why black people do what they do lol

What about an amazing black woman? warning language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7mZQvaQDk

better than a bunch of white know it alls

 

[BustedKnuckles]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

Another (not really) solid contribution from you...

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting

 

[Donkey Derp]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

Another (not really) solid contribution from you...

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting

I post things like this to support my argument:

According to the Baltimore Sun, here are Baltimore's homicide rates since 2007 (oldest year available):

2007 - 282

2008 - 234

2009 - 240

2010 - 224

2011 - 197

2012 - 217

2013 - 235

2014 - 211

2015 - 214 (that is on pace for 335)

There were 79 homicides from 1/1-4/30. Here are the homicides from May:

May 2015 - 42

June 2015 - 23

July 2015 - 45

August 2015 - 25 (pace for 37)

To put into perspective May and July, here are the highest homicide months since 1971:

7/15 - 45

8/72 - 45

12/71 - 44

5/15 - 42

8/90 - 42

So, in the past 45 years, two of the highest homicide months came after the riots (we aren't even through the fourth month yet).

Baltimore fired their police chief on July 8th ONLY to have July tie a 45 year old monthly homicide record. Police don't want to be proactive in cities they are NOT wanted and it is obvious the consequences. But keep blaming the police lol...

You post things like this:

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting



Yeah, about the same.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

Another (not really) solid contribution from you...

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting

I post things like this to support my argument:

According to the Baltimore Sun, here are Baltimore's homicide rates since 2007 (oldest year available):

2007 - 282

2008 - 234

2009 - 240

2010 - 224

2011 - 197

2012 - 217

2013 - 235

2014 - 211

2015 - 214 (that is on pace for 335)

There were 79 homicides from 1/1-4/30. Here are the homicides from May:

May 2015 - 42

June 2015 - 23

July 2015 - 45

August 2015 - 25 (pace for 37)

To put into perspective May and July, here are the highest homicide months since 1971:

7/15 - 45

8/72 - 45

12/71 - 44

5/15 - 42

8/90 - 42

So, in the past 45 years, two of the highest homicide months came after the riots (we aren't even through the fourth month yet).

Baltimore fired their police chief on July 8th ONLY to have July tie a 45 year old monthly homicide record. Police don't want to be proactive in cities they are NOT wanted and it is obvious the consequences. But keep blaming the police lol...

You post things like this:

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting



Yeah, about the same.

you obviously have an agenda....its clear to everyone in this thread...being unbiased isnt a bad thing

 

[Donkey Derp]

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

Another (not really) solid contribution from you...

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting

I post things like this to support my argument:

According to the Baltimore Sun, here are Baltimore's homicide rates since 2007 (oldest year available):

2007 - 282

2008 - 234

2009 - 240

2010 - 224

2011 - 197

2012 - 217

2013 - 235

2014 - 211

2015 - 214 (that is on pace for 335)

There were 79 homicides from 1/1-4/30. Here are the homicides from May:

May 2015 - 42

June 2015 - 23

July 2015 - 45

August 2015 - 25 (pace for 37)

To put into perspective May and July, here are the highest homicide months since 1971:

7/15 - 45

8/72 - 45

12/71 - 44

5/15 - 42

8/90 - 42

So, in the past 45 years, two of the highest homicide months came after the riots (we aren't even through the fourth month yet).

Baltimore fired their police chief on July 8th ONLY to have July tie a 45 year old monthly homicide record. Police don't want to be proactive in cities they are NOT wanted and it is obvious the consequences. But keep blaming the police lol...

You post things like this:

derp....derp....derp derp....derp

no worse than the derp derp ,,,derp crap you keep posting



Yeah, about the same.

you obviously have an agenda....its clear to everyone in this thread...being unbiased isnt a bad thing

What exactly is my agenda? Please spell it out for me.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

‘He wasn’t f*cking armed!': Woman screams at MD. cops after they kill her husband in Walmart parking lot (Video)

 

[Todd Andrews]

‘He wasn’t f*cking armed!': Woman screams at MD. cops after they kill her husband in Walmart parking lot (Video)

Dont miss your drug counseling when you get busted for drug paraphernalia.....OR DIE!

 

[igbomb]

So this Derp guy just keeps posting stats without really adding any commentary or drawing any conclusions from them. Is this considered putting forth an argument?

I've said this before, but I don't get the cognitive dissonance from the conservative side on this one. A LOT of conservatives back the police on this entire topic, suggesting like Derp above that people's anger at police is leading to more crime and that is the CITIZENRY's fault. I don't get it.

The insinuation is that if police are abusing their power, the best alternative is to just suck it up and shut our mouth or they may do a supbar job of protecting us. That's asinine. And since when is this the freedom loving perspective? Or does that just apply to guns and taxes?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So this Derp guy just keeps posting stats without really adding any commentary or drawing any conclusions from them. Is this considered putting forth an argument?

I've said this before, but I don't get the cognitive dissonance from the conservative side on this one. A LOT of conservatives back the police on this entire topic, suggesting like Derp above that people's anger at police is leading to more crime and that is the CITIZENRY's fault. I don't get it.

The insinuation is that if police are abusing their power, the best alternative is to just suck it up and shut our mouth or they may do a supbar job of protecting us. That's asinine. And since when is this the freedom loving perspective? Or does that just apply to guns and taxes?

................. derp.......................

 

[Donkey Derp]

So this Derp guy just keeps posting stats without really adding any commentary or drawing any conclusions from them. Is this considered putting forth an argument?

I've said this before, but I don't get the cognitive dissonance from the conservative side on this one. A LOT of conservatives back the police on this entire topic, suggesting like Derp above that people's anger at police is leading to more crime and that is the CITIZENRY's fault. I don't get it.

The insinuation is that if police are abusing their power, the best alternative is to just suck it up and shut our mouth or they may do a supbar job of protecting us. That's asinine. And since when is this the freedom loving perspective? Or does that just apply to guns and taxes?

In your first paragraph, you suggest I haven't put forth an argument. In your second paragraph, you contradict yourself by suggesting I do have an argument. It was cool you used cognitive dissonance in a sentence though.

 

[Road Warriors]

Don't make eye contact with the police(while being black.)

He didn't get shot. What are you complaining about?

 

[Donkey Derp]

Don't make eye contact with the police(while being black.)

Keep fighting the fight.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/investigations/bal-baltimore-homicides-for-july-2015-20150828-premiumvideo.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/investigations/bs-md-ci-july-homicide-victims-20150829-story.html

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hundreds-mourn-slain-9-year-old-ferguson-girl/ar-AAdLxb0?li=BBgzzfc

 

[Todd Andrews]

This is a nice story.

 

[avoiding injuries]

This is a nice story.

Hunger strike gone wrong.

 

[D_House]

More bad press for NYC police: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/nyregion/james-blake-new-york-police-officer.html