So in your mind an employer should not have the ability to discipline its employees for acts which reflect poorly upon the employer?
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Another PacMan strip club shooting (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Padraig
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
See my previous post. I just want "employer" to be defined as the team, not the league.You guys are somewhat missing the point here. The league isn't letting the thugs play -- and some of them play pretty well. Don't you want to watch them? Wouldn't it be great to see the Raiders load up on really talented hoodlums and start winning again? The entertainment value here is too great to ignore.
Why? The League, the Owners and the Players' Union have decided to handle misconduct this way.roadkill1292 said:
I don't think we're missing the point at all. The NFL has determined that it is in its best interests to handle disciplinary situations this way. Do you honestly think that they haven't considered all of the ramifications and that $$$ aren't the bottom here?I can honestly say that I don't think the entertainment value of the league is affected one iota by having a few bad apples shown the door.roadkill1292 said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I know the league has decided to do it this way. I think it's the wrong thing to do. And I'm sure that the league has put a lot of thought into this policy and its ramifications -- and I think it has reached the wrong conclusion. It happens.And I'll also have to disagree with your last opinion as well. The entertainment value has to be diminshed when a talented player is no longer allowed to play, although we could probably both agree that the degree of loss is probably slight.
My biggest problem is one of process and jurisdiction. What has Pacman done to prevent him from carrying out his duties as a member of the Tennessee Titans? Has he been tossed in jail? Has he missed any practices? The only thing he's done as far as the league is concerned is break the league's stupid conduct rule -- and that's what I want to see changed.
What has Ricky Williams done to warrant banishment? He's broken a rule that is an extremely stupid one, IMO. I want the damn rule changed. I want to see Ricky run for 1500 yards and 10 TDs. And I wager that most other pro football fans do, too. Are we really gonna stop watching if Pacman and Ricky suit up? Is that what the league is afraid of? Is there some sort of mysterious emotional attachment to these players that we need them to be pillars of society before we'll watch? This may be the defective part of my reasoning, because I just don't feel that kind of attachment and maybe everybody else does.
:endcapellachanneling:
fatness
Footballguy
Don't you know that the internet was created for morally denouncing people, convicting them, and determining their punishment?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Fats, I'm happy to join in the condemnation of bad behavior. I believe that employers should take appropriate action for behavior outside the workplace. You shouldn't let a drunk fly a commercial aircraft; you shouldn't be allowed to operate a 100-foot crane if you've flunked a drug test; a day care center oughta fire an employee convicted of child molestation; Mark Chmura shouldn't be allowed to coach a girls basketball team.But none of that applies to the NFL. The league's only argument appears to be public relations. If so, then there's no reason for the rule, at least not on my account. If the criminal authorities, who are far more capable of dealing with these types of problems than the NFL ever will be, have had their day, then a team should be able to hire the player, and play him, at its own discretion. There're no competitive issues here that require the league's intervention.Don't you know that the internet was created for morally denouncing people, convicting them, and determining their punishment?
I stand ready to meet up with you at the local pub and roundly boo all the bad apples, however. It'll be like a morality play. With beer.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't much like bad behavior either. But I also don't like the recent trend of condemning people based on a whiff of a story, an unsubstantiated report, a not-concluded investigation, a rumor, etc. It's just herd behavior, and it's difficult seeing people whose posts and thoughts I respect give in to it, you know?
When we meet up we can start off denouncing Robert Irsay, and move on from there.
When we meet up we can start off denouncing Robert Irsay, and move on from there.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I don't much like bad behavior either. But I also don't like the recent trend of condemning people based on a whiff of a story, an unsubstantiated report, a not-concluded investigation, a rumor, etc. It's just herd behavior, and it's difficult seeing people whose posts and thoughts I respect give in to it, you know?When we meet up we can start off denouncing Robert Irsay, and move on from there.
eesondevilbobsgrave:
Big Score
Footballguy
I see Pacman making the same choice as Ray Lewis.Crossroads. he can stand with his posse, keep mum when he talks to the cops thereby keeping it real and maintaining his street cred, or he can do the responsible thing, fully cooperate with the authorities and maybe give up his criminal buddy thereby conforming to society's needs. I'm certain he will make the right choice.
Robbie Cooper
Footballguy
More info on the most recent strip club fiasco involving Jones:
Seems pretty irrefutable that he was in the nightclub. And I'm going to take the word of a police officer over that of a street-thug like Jones anyday.I hope to never see him play another down in the NFL.
Last edited by a moderator:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Will you stop watching the games if he suits up?Robbie Cooper said:
Will you stop watching the games if he never suits up again?
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
Per ESPN, PacMan has now been charged with 2 felonies with regards to the Vegas strip club shootings.
bmetz
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Of course not. But I'm trying to get at the root of why so many fans connect off-field behavior to league mandated disciplinary action. If the reason is PR-related, then I'm suggesting to the NFL that it doesn't have to do this on my account. Apparently that's not the case with others and I'm trying to find out why.
WampusCat43
Footballguy
That oughta do it. My prediction - NFL career over, just enough money left to beat this rap somehow, in jail for good within a year.Latest incident: witnesses claiming Pacman threatened to kill them, and sheriff deputy saying he heard Pacman say he was going to get his gun shortly before guy is shot at.
Vegas incident: now charged with two felonies.
Anyone want to start a pool on how long it will be before Pacman is up on murder charges? That guy has serious issues.
Vegas incident: now charged with two felonies.
Anyone want to start a pool on how long it will be before Pacman is up on murder charges? That guy has serious issues.
derek19
Footballguy
Adam 'Pacman' Jones to face 2 felony charges in Las Vegas
By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer
June 20, 2007
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Suspended NFL player Adam "Pacman" Jones will face two felony charges in a strip club melee that preceded a triple shooting in February, Las Vegas police and the Clark County District Attorney's office said Wednesday.
Two other people previously identified by police as friends of the troubled Tennessee cornerback also will face felony charges in the fracas inside the Minxx club, police said in a statement.
Since Jones was drafted by the Titans in April 2005, police have interviewed him in 10 separate incidents. He has been arrested five times; he hasn't been convicted of any crimes.
Jones was being sought by police this week for questioning about a shooting early Monday involving members of his entourage after a fight at an Atlanta strip club.
No one is named in the Las Vegas shooting that occurred later outside the club and left a bar employee paralyzed and two others with minor injuries, police Capt. James Dillon said.
Warrants were issued for the arrests of Jones, Robert Reid of Carson, Calif., and Sadia Morrison of New York, Dillon said.
The 23-year-old Jones, of Franklin, Tenn., faces two counts of felony coercion stemming from allegations he threatened to kill club employees and bit a bar bouncer on the ankle, according to a criminal complaint filed in Clark County District Court.
The 37-year-old Reid faces one felony coercion charge alleging he attacked a bouncer who tried to restrain Jones.
The 24-year-old Morrison faces charges including felony assault with a deadly weapon and battery stemming from allegations that she hit the bouncer in the head with a bottle and attacked several other club employees with a chair.
Coercion is the act of threatening or physically interfering with a person trying to do something that he or she has a right and responsibility to do.
The charges are slightly different from those police sought in March against Jones, Reid and Morrison. Clark County District Attorney David Roger declined to file those charges, asking police for more information and to identify a shooter.
"The investigation continued and additional evidence was gathered, that's why it's different," Dillon said. "These are complicated acts and charges. We've worked closely with the district attorney."
A Las Vegas lawyer representing the three was expected to contact police to arrange their surrender, an aide to Roger said.
The lawyer, Robert Langford, did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.
Police said the Feb. 19 fracas broke out inside the club, Minxx, several blocks off the Las Vegas Strip when dancers on stage were showered with thousands of dollar bills near the end of NBA All-Star weekend.
Yahoo.com
By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer
June 20, 2007
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Suspended NFL player Adam "Pacman" Jones will face two felony charges in a strip club melee that preceded a triple shooting in February, Las Vegas police and the Clark County District Attorney's office said Wednesday.
Two other people previously identified by police as friends of the troubled Tennessee cornerback also will face felony charges in the fracas inside the Minxx club, police said in a statement.
Since Jones was drafted by the Titans in April 2005, police have interviewed him in 10 separate incidents. He has been arrested five times; he hasn't been convicted of any crimes.
Jones was being sought by police this week for questioning about a shooting early Monday involving members of his entourage after a fight at an Atlanta strip club.
No one is named in the Las Vegas shooting that occurred later outside the club and left a bar employee paralyzed and two others with minor injuries, police Capt. James Dillon said.
Warrants were issued for the arrests of Jones, Robert Reid of Carson, Calif., and Sadia Morrison of New York, Dillon said.
The 23-year-old Jones, of Franklin, Tenn., faces two counts of felony coercion stemming from allegations he threatened to kill club employees and bit a bar bouncer on the ankle, according to a criminal complaint filed in Clark County District Court.
The 37-year-old Reid faces one felony coercion charge alleging he attacked a bouncer who tried to restrain Jones.
The 24-year-old Morrison faces charges including felony assault with a deadly weapon and battery stemming from allegations that she hit the bouncer in the head with a bottle and attacked several other club employees with a chair.
Coercion is the act of threatening or physically interfering with a person trying to do something that he or she has a right and responsibility to do.
The charges are slightly different from those police sought in March against Jones, Reid and Morrison. Clark County District Attorney David Roger declined to file those charges, asking police for more information and to identify a shooter.
"The investigation continued and additional evidence was gathered, that's why it's different," Dillon said. "These are complicated acts and charges. We've worked closely with the district attorney."
A Las Vegas lawyer representing the three was expected to contact police to arrange their surrender, an aide to Roger said.
The lawyer, Robert Langford, did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.
Police said the Feb. 19 fracas broke out inside the club, Minxx, several blocks off the Las Vegas Strip when dancers on stage were showered with thousands of dollar bills near the end of NBA All-Star weekend.
Yahoo.com
fatness
Footballguy
Arrest Warrant (pdf file)
Slinger
Footballguy
(Rotoworld) Pacman Jones has been charged with two counts of felony coercion in the February shooting at a Las Vegas strip club that left one man paralyzed.Impact: Two other men were charged. Sadia Morrison is charged with five counts including assault with a deadly weapon. Whether Pacman is found guilty or not, this should end whatever chance he had to play this year and further jeopardizes his chances of playing again at all.Uh, no. He's guilty. Adam Jones will never play another down for the Titans or any other NFL team.
CA_7
Footballguy
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