This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Yes, it does. Doesn't it seem lenient to you, considering this is his 3rd offense and he was driving at 2 o'clock in the afternoon and he was double the legal limit?
I'm assuming here you mean the court system. And if I assume correctly, then you assume incorrectly. You, like many, seem to believe the courts/state has the ability to just send a person away to an alcohol rehabilitation center. First, the judges and attorney are bound by the sentencing structure for a DUI as set up by the legislature. Due to that pesky whole separation of powers thing, the judges cannot override what the legislature has determined is the range of appropriate punishment. Second, alcohol rehabilitation is ####### expensive. Easily costs at least 15k/month to send someone there. Do you really expect the taxpayer to go ahead and foot this bill given that most defendants can't? Finally, the success rates of these places, while good, are not perfect. Hence why our sentencing structures for DUI usually require some counseling for the first offense or two, but then simply rely on good old fashioned incarceration and license suspension because obviously the counseling didn't work.
The only thing keeping him from driving with a suspended license, is the same thing that kept him from driving while drunk. Nothing!
Sarcasm?
Misdemeanor - punishable up to one year in jailFelony - punishable over one year in jail
This is the laws for Nebraska
Um yeah, didn't he pop his cherry on the 1st offense? How about the 2nd? 3rd? 4th? Also, he did time after his 2nd and his 3rd. (IIRC 30 days and 90 days respectively)
I believe it is an aggravated unlicensed operator citation (a felony if alcohol is involved) along with his 5th(?) DUI; since his cherry was popped with regards to have already have been sentenced to jail, I would assume he would be looking at a considerable jail sentence. We can both agree, as I would assume a judge will too, that he is much less of a hazard to other drivers while he is in jail.
How many people has your father in law actually harmed? How many people have been in an accident with him?
Physically, none. Emotionally, 10 or 12.
This may be the dumbest argument I've read on this board. Do a poll. Most people would say that not wearing a seat belt shouldn't be illegal at all. And look at the lineage of those laws from where they started to where they are now. If we'd known where we'd end up with those laws they never would have been passed in the first place.
I understand the concept of balance. We could just ban cars and never have to worry about it again, right?
Or we could just quit giving people 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances to hurt someone.
If your son committed three DUIs, yet never hurt anyone and complied with police upon every arrest, how would you react if he was put into prison for many years?
I just generally prefer the punishment fit the crime. Having seen the problems that come from legislatures trying to prevent crimes through harsher punishments, I prefer a more coherent system of punishment than currently exists. BTW, I'm atleast triple the legal limit at this time, then again all lawyers I know are atleast marginally alcoholic, so I'm probably safe to drive.
I remember having this point trying to be made in a debate in 8th grade Social Studies class, about the death penalty - it was silly then. Emotions should not be the basis for law and juries should not be made of emotional people. As penalties get more and more harsh, less people will be able to skate and will suffer severe consequences in their professional careers; all good, but how long do you think before there are financial repercussions to the State from the loss of tax revenue from these people who cannot work (there already is). There is also the risk of when the penalties are too tough that they will not be applied consistently.KCitons said:
Honestly, I teach my kids to own their actions. I've said it before in another thread. Common Sense, Understanding, and Ownership are the 3 things a person needs to follow in life.Zow said:
Yes, I gives me a place to vent. Contrary to what most of you think. I do read each response. I am open to understanding what others think on this subject. I also know that it effects what people deem as one of their rights or freedoms to go out and have a good time. They don't want to lose that or risk upsetting their livelihood.StrikeS2k said:
She is one of the 10-12 people that this has taken an emotional toll on. She's both frustrated and angry that he can't get the help he needs to deal with his alcohol problem. She agrees that he should have received a longer jail sentence. She expected at least a year. She also doesn't believe that he will adhere to the suspended license.
Point taken. I know full well that I am too close to this fire.
Agreed. But, we continue to feed able bodied workers through the welfare system. My FIL needs assistance with a problem. Why one and not the other?
As a matter of fact, there are several levels between First Degree Murder and misdemeanor battery. And they are all based upon different levels of intent. Intent is a very important factor in criminal law. You've already stated that your father has never actually hurt anyone while driving drunk. Do you believe your father has ever set out intending to harm anyone?
Nope.
I'd suggest the death penalty for a first offense.KCitons said:
No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things.
Generally these types of sentences are accompanied by a period of probation. Probation would permit the state to file a claim for revocation and more jail time if the person screws up. Odds are the state/judge already has the option you're alluding he should have allowed for.
Interesting. Another person calling me a liar.No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things.
It's emotional. It's irrational. And it's natural for a parent.
You still haven't wrapped your mind around the fact that drunk driving, in and of itself, is a victimless crime, have you?
Nope. I guess those people that were killed in alcohol related accidents haven't realized it either.
On a very expensive mattress with high thread-count sheets* and towels around my bloody hands paid for with drug money from pedophiles I've freed, while I dream of other shifty and underhanded "loopholes"** to keep multiple offenders out of jail, despite the mandatory sentencing ranges, evidence against them, etc.Interesting. Another person calling me a liar.No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things.
It's emotional. It's irrational. And it's natural for a parent.
Don't get me wrong, I will do whatever it takes to get my son/daughter the help that they need. I've seen exactly what you are talking about with kids that I have caught shoplifting. They want to blame everyone but themselves.
We've had multiple conversations with our kids about making the right decisions. Whether its sex, money, or drugs. We've made it very clear that people make mistakes. When discussing money and drugs, we've let them know we will help them the first time they get into trouble. After that, they are on their own because evidently they didn't learn the first time. When we discussed sex, we told them that there is no second chance. We can't keep them from having sex, so the had better make sure they practice safe sex. If they get pregnant or get someone pregnant, they won't have to worry about the state garnishing wages, my wife and I will make sure our kid steps up and takes care of the kid.
I know I sound like a giant #####. But, I think the kids of this world need some stricter parenting. Too many have a sense of entitlement. From that, they feel like they don't have to be responsible for their own mistakes.
Keep in mind, you asked how I would react if my kid was busted for his/her 3rd offense.
But, I guess if we are going to call people out. Let's take a look at you. How can you sleep at night? Finding loopholes to keep multiple offenders out of jail, only to put them back on the road to have another chance to hurt someone. Do you do the same for rapists, pedophiles and drug dealers?
what about tubalcain?On a very expensive mattress with high thread-count sheets* and towels around my bloody hands paid for with drug money from pedophiles I've freed, while I dream of other shifty and underhanded "loopholes"** to keep multiple offenders out of jail, despite the mandatory sentencing ranges, evidence against them, etc.Interesting. Another person calling me a liar.No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things.
It's emotional. It's irrational. And it's natural for a parent.
Don't get me wrong, I will do whatever it takes to get my son/daughter the help that they need. I've seen exactly what you are talking about with kids that I have caught shoplifting. They want to blame everyone but themselves.
We've had multiple conversations with our kids about making the right decisions. Whether its sex, money, or drugs. We've made it very clear that people make mistakes. When discussing money and drugs, we've let them know we will help them the first time they get into trouble. After that, they are on their own because evidently they didn't learn the first time. When we discussed sex, we told them that there is no second chance. We can't keep them from having sex, so the had better make sure they practice safe sex. If they get pregnant or get someone pregnant, they won't have to worry about the state garnishing wages, my wife and I will make sure our kid steps up and takes care of the kid.
I know I sound like a giant #####. But, I think the kids of this world need some stricter parenting. Too many have a sense of entitlement. From that, they feel like they don't have to be responsible for their own mistakes.
Keep in mind, you asked how I would react if my kid was busted for his/her 3rd offense.
But, I guess if we are going to call people out. Let's take a look at you. How can you sleep at night? Finding loopholes to keep multiple offenders out of jail, only to put them back on the road to have another chance to hurt someone. Do you do the same for rapists, pedophiles and drug dealers?
*Kidding, I've worked the majority of my career as a public defender being paid pennies on the dollar for people to insinuate I lack integrity and my profession is dishonest. But nonetheless I still sleep fine.
**I seriously want to shoot whatever Hollywood or media type came up with the idea of a "legal loophole." In the thousands of cases I've worked I can probably count the times where there was an actual "loophole" or some derivation thereof on one or two fingers. Generally people get plea deals because there's actual mitigation or get their cases dismissed/win at trial because the cops violated some rights or because, shockingly, they didn't commit the crime. There's seriously no such thing as these "loopholes" people seem to perceive exist in every case.
I would not call you a liar but I do think you are little short-sighted. If your child made a mistake you are okay with a punishment; this is normal but will you feel the same way when they are punished so severely that they cannot get out from under it? In your scenario ,would you be okay with your child having their salary garnished so much that they could not afford to live, just so the baby will not be a burden on the State? Would you be okay with your son losing his ability to provide for his family for a period time that it effectively puts him on welfare? I think you should reexamine your sophomoric views.Interesting. Another person calling me a liar.Don't get me wrong, I will do whatever it takes to get my son/daughter the help that they need. I've seen exactly what you are talking about with kids that I have caught shoplifting. They want to blame everyone but themselves.No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things. It's emotional. It's irrational. And it's natural for a parent.
We've had multiple conversations with our kids about making the right decisions. Whether its sex, money, or drugs. We've made it very clear that people make mistakes. When discussing money and drugs, we've let them know we will help them the first time they get into trouble. After that, they are on their own because evidently they didn't learn the first time. When we discussed sex, we told them that there is no second chance. We can't keep them from having sex, so the had better make sure they practice safe sex. If they get pregnant or get someone pregnant, they won't have to worry about the state garnishing wages, my wife and I will make sure our kid steps up and takes care of the kid.
I know I sound like a giant #####. But, I think the kids of this world need some stricter parenting. Too many have a sense of entitlement. From that, they feel like they don't have to be responsible for their own mistakes.
Keep in mind, you asked how I would react if my kid was busted for his/her 3rd offense.
But, I guess if we are going to call people out. Let's take a look at you. How can you sleep at night? Finding loopholes to keep multiple offenders out of jail, only to put them back on the road to have another chance to hurt someone. Do you do the same for rapists, pedophiles and drug dealers?
2nd DUI offenses are felonies in Indiana, New York, Minnesota and Oklahoma.
I don't see how this is short sided. I think that every one needs to be held accountable for their actions. First off, everyone knows that it is illegal to drive while you are intoxicated. If you choose to do it anyway, you are essentially saying I have no regard for the laws which have been imposed by society. When you get caught the first time, you are given a stern reminder that there is a price to pay when you break the law. If you choose to ignore everything you have been taught, then you should pay maximum penalty. I think you are the one that needs to reexamine your views. You are raising another generation of citizens that feel entitled and will thumb their noses at rules for the sake of their own childish benefit.I would not call you a liar but I do think you are little short-sighted. If your child made a mistake you are okay with a punishment; this is normal but will you feel the same way when they are punished so severely that they cannot get out from under it? In your scenario ,would you be okay with your child having their salary garnished so much that they could not afford to live, just so the baby will not be a burden on the State? Would you be okay with your son losing his ability to provide for his family for a period time that it effectively puts him on welfare? I think you should reexamine your sophomoric views.Interesting. Another person calling me a liar.Don't get me wrong, I will do whatever it takes to get my son/daughter the help that they need. I've seen exactly what you are talking about with kids that I have caught shoplifting. They want to blame everyone but themselves.No, you wouldn't. I've spoken to too many parents about their kids' cases where their kids were getting treated identically to other similarly situated defendants in terms of a plea only to have the parents insist their kids needs help, is being "railroaded," didn't do it, etc. in the same breath as saying how they believe that Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great guy and every other defendants skate and get away with things. It's emotional. It's irrational. And it's natural for a parent.
We've had multiple conversations with our kids about making the right decisions. Whether its sex, money, or drugs. We've made it very clear that people make mistakes. When discussing money and drugs, we've let them know we will help them the first time they get into trouble. After that, they are on their own because evidently they didn't learn the first time. When we discussed sex, we told them that there is no second chance. We can't keep them from having sex, so the had better make sure they practice safe sex. If they get pregnant or get someone pregnant, they won't have to worry about the state garnishing wages, my wife and I will make sure our kid steps up and takes care of the kid.
I know I sound like a giant #####. But, I think the kids of this world need some stricter parenting. Too many have a sense of entitlement. From that, they feel like they don't have to be responsible for their own mistakes.
Keep in mind, you asked how I would react if my kid was busted for his/her 3rd offense.
But, I guess if we are going to call people out. Let's take a look at you. How can you sleep at night? Finding loopholes to keep multiple offenders out of jail, only to put them back on the road to have another chance to hurt someone. Do you do the same for rapists, pedophiles and drug dealers?
I'd imagine on of your social studies grade school teachers already tried that
Why would you need it?. If there is no victim in the crime of drunk driving, then every offense is exactly the same. BAC of .08 =X penalty. BAC of .16 or greater = Y Penalty.
