Are you going to let your kids take student loans for college? (1 Viewer)

[Instinctive]

Why are SEC schools so covetous of out of state kids?

My guess? Because the kids in their states come from crappy education systems and are thereby dumber than kids from the rest of the country.

On the whole, on average. There obviously are exceptions to every rule.

 

[The_Man]

Why are SEC schools so covetous of out of state kids?

My guess? Because the kids in their states come from crappy education systems and are thereby dumber than kids from the rest of the country.

On the whole, on average. There obviously are exceptions to every rule.

Well it's two things - one is because of the money. Out of state kids pay a lot more (more than twice as much, generally) for the exact same product.

And the other is the competition for better students/U.S. News rankings. By enrolling out-of-state kids with higher stats than the in-state kids, it helps boost their rankings.

Alabama gives a four-year full ride, plus a $3500 annual stipend to National Merit Finalists. That's one way to go for the stats/student profile you want.

 

[Instinctive]

Why are SEC schools so covetous of out of state kids?

My guess? Because the kids in their states come from crappy education systems and are thereby dumber than kids from the rest of the country.On the whole, on average. There obviously are exceptions to every rule.

Well it's two things - one is because of the money. Out of state kids pay a lot more (more than twice as much, generally) for the exact same product.

And the other is the competition for better students/U.S. News rankings. By enrolling out-of-state kids with higher stats than the in-state kids, it helps boost their rankings.

Alabama gives a four-year full ride, plus a $3500 annual stipend to National Merit Finalists. That's one way to go for the stats/student profile you want.

These two things apply to different kids though. If you're giving them academic scholarships (read tuition discounts) then they aren't paying more.

I understand what they're doing. Oklahoma does it too - hell, that's actually the only reason I went to Oklahoma over Georgetown and American (even with scholarships there). They enroll more national merits than any public university (or at least they have for the last few years).

But the reason they need out of state kids in order to boost their rankings is because their in state kids don't score as well on the things that affect the rankings (rankings which are dumb anyway, but that's beside the point). For instance, just look at the PSAT score to qualify as national merit. It is based on being in the top x% in each state. The score representing that mark is different in each state, and lower in pretty much every state you would guess it would be lower in (mostly SEC country).

Oklahoma has the same issue (and their National Merit cutoff is evidence of this as well), which is why they offer that scholarship package.

And the packages do work. And the smarter and more driven a student is, the better off I think they are at a state school, and the less it matters which school. If you can graduate at the top of your class and be a big time campus leader at, say Alabama, then you can do it at Florida or South Carolina or North Carolina or whatever.

 

[Slapdash]

Why are SEC schools so covetous of out of state kids?

It is a business model. They are still much cheaper compared to schools outside of the south at a rate much higher than any in-state student will pay. Good way to grow revenue while raising the academic profile. Cuts from the state funding have been fairly severe in a lot of the states with SEC schools.

 

[The_Man]

My son is a National Merit Semifinalist. He signed up for the PSAT with our shared household email address. The quantity and quality of the recruitment emails he receives are kind of hard to believe. As of today, it's been 2,835 emails in the last 23 months.

Speaking of Oklahoma, here's one he got this morning - again, interesting to see them stress the big-time college sports angle. It must really resonate with teenage boys.

We're in overtime! Apply to OU by Dec. 31 to be considered for academic, merit-based scholarships.In honor of the Sooners' trip to the Orange Bowl, we're celebrating with a scholarship deadline extension! If you apply to OU by December 31http://ou.askadmissions.net/admin/C...WtNburym1muw7LVKVgUcR+kfWIMAtOTjM3RM5Gu5Vu/I=, you may be eligible for our academic, merit-based scholarships AND you can enjoy the game without having to worry. Learn more about the scholarships you could be eligible for here.http://ou.askadmissions.net/admin/C...Wglb53mvKwjjcTRBwealzlqM1eFE0YLRUabewIhHL2aw=

All you have to do to be eligible for these scholarships is submit your application by December 31. Your transcript, letter of recommendation, and any other supporting documentation may be submitted after this deadline. And guess what? You can still retake the ACT or SAT through April 30, send us your new scores, and we will update your scholarship package accordingly (score!!).

We hope this sounds like a victory for you! Click here to apply today!http://ou.askadmissions.net/admin/C...WtNburym1muw7LVKVgUcR+kfWIMAtOTjM3RM5Gu5Vu/I=

 

[Instinctive]

@The_Man (congrats to son!)

Yeah, it's nuts. My college recruitment stuff was in the midst of most schools sending a TON of paper mail as well as a bunch of emails. I ended up with like 4 full boxes and idk how many emails (I deleted emails on arrival unless they came from a school on my list).

Best of luck to your son. I get a few of the "kids goin to college" handles mixed up, so if he's thinking a path that may lead to law or b-school, feel free to shoot me a PM. I feel like I've helped a number of people in that area, and I actually speak (regarding college and career choices) at a couple high schools where I have former teachers whenever I'm back in the Dallas area. Would be happy to answer any questions if you'd like.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Warm weather, hot girls, and big-time sports -- a lot of his classmates seem to think that having ESPN Game Day do a live broadcast from your campus is a good reason for picking a college.

These all sound like great reasons to pick a college to me.

 

[The_Man]

Thanks, Instinctive

He thinks law school might be in his future, but it is so far down the line that it's not an issue for now. Has to get into (and pay for!) undergraduate first. Not gonna lie, he got deferred from Yale in early action last week and it's kind of thrown him for a loop. Luckily, all his other applications were already finished, so we just had to send them in - some of his friends found themselves suddenly having to write a bunch of applications while dealing with being rejected from their first choice.

I remain worried about what's going to happen if he doesn't get into HYP, and we can't afford Georgetown or wherever. He has some affordable and/or merit $ schools on his list, but there's definitely going to be a period of disappointment if he ends up going somewhere based primarily on affordability. But - to get back to the original point of this thread - I just can't see amassing significant amounts of college loan debt, especially if he is thinking about grad school afterward.

 

[The Ref]

It's all big business.

 

[The Ref]

To answer the OP.... I'm going to try not to let her take on any debt.

We signed her up for the 4 year pre paid university plan for the state of Florida. We added on 2 years of room and board.

If she manages to get into Harvard or MIT then she can cash in the plan and take out loans on her own, and in this instance if support the decision. If she is anything like her father she won't have to worry about this.

If she hits the books and does really well she can go to UF or FSU and that's good enough paper to make it through life. If she's just an average student FAU, FIU, USF and UCF are all known to take on someone who is willing to pay full price.

 

[ghostguy123]

As I mentioned above.. My daughter wants to go into Marketing/advertising.. why would she need to take Chemistry, history, etc.. to succeed in that?

The difficult thing is that most (all)18 year olds have no clue what they actually want to do with their life, or what the degree they are interested in offers to them out in the real world. By taking chemistry, history, etc., it opens up their perspectives and maybe convinces them that what they initially thought they wanted to do is not for them.18 year olds thinking they know what they want to do with the rest of their life leads to disgruntled 50 year olds who have been doing the same thing for their entire life who come too late to a realization that their life has been a waste.

Certainly hyperbole, but the basic premise of "take a couple years to figure your #### out before you dedicate a life to it" is a good mantra for teenagers.

Exactly. Get some basic classes out of the way that will transfer well to most majors, grow up a little, and maybe figure out what you truly want to do during those extra couple years while you are an adult starting to do adult things. Then come out of it after minimizing the damage of student loan debt.

Or go through three years of business school for 25-30k a year only to come to the realization than you hate the business world.

 

[ghostguy123]

I also reached out to the marketing team for the company I work for ( 15k Employees world wide) and they also informed me that given a choice between someone with a two year degree with intern experience, and a person with a 4 year degree and no experience, they would hire the one with the two year degree..

Not sure I believe this.

Think about it.. You are hiring someone, no matter the position, and you can choose between someone with experience and a two degree, or someone with a 4 year degree but no experience.. Who would you hire?

Intern experience isn't that valuable and just about anyone can complete a two year degree.

Give me the person who completed upper level classes in their major and appears smart and hard-working.

Completely depends on the job and what the company is looking for at that time.

 

[ghostguy123]

loans aren't inherently evil if they provide you an opportunity to make big bucks. my wife had to take loans for grad school which totaled about 140k. If she graduated with a job that made 80k, that might be a problem. but she graduated w/ a job paying 130k so the loans aren't really an issue at all.

it's all about risk v reward.

Loans for grad school is an entirely different conversation IMO

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

This question isn't for the rich folks (so that may not include 97% of the FFA community).

For those of us who can't afford to just send our kid/s to the school of their choice, are you going to do everything in your power to keep them from taking out student loans?

I certainly am. My daughter is 11, smart, should get excellent grades in high school, and decent test scores. She will get accepted to most schools, but probably won't get any sort of huge scholarship anywhere.

I am going to do everything I can to convince her to go to community college (for at least two years), work part time, and maybe even SAVE a few bucks during that time.

These kids coming out of college with huge student loan debt is just sickening.

I never took any student loans because I got some sign on bonuses for the hospital I work at, got help from my dad for a while, and then maxed out a few credit cards to finish things up my last year or so (worse debt than student loans, but not a huge amount). I thank my lucky star every day I am not saddled with huge student loan debt. My wife has about 20 grand, but that is at least manageable with two incomes.

I have failed as a father if she either ends up dancing on the pole or graduates with some half-assed degree with huge student loan debt.

If she is that smart, why would you send her to community college? I am sorry, but community college is for losers. Every state has a place called a 'state university' which usually is a very good school that most excellent students can attend. Loans for a state university are not that bad. You have to make sure she majors in something useful though.

 

[ghostguy123]

Weird. I know plenty of people who went to community college to start and are doing quite well. Pretty much the opposite of losers.

It's not so good if you can ONLY get into community college, but if you use CC to cheaply get you where you need to go, it works quite well. I have seen it first hand many times.

The path where you go to CC for a while then finish up at a state school is an excellent path to quite a few common majors, and jobs.

 

[ghostguy123]

I didnt think i needed to mention this, but yeah, if her good grades and decent test scores continue through high school and she gets scholarships enabling her to go to a state or private school for a far lesser amount then we will certainly look into that.

 

[snogger]

As I mentioned above.. My daughter wants to go into Marketing/advertising.. why would she need to take Chemistry, history, etc.. to succeed in that?

The difficult thing is that most (all)18 year olds have no clue what they actually want to do with their life, or what the degree they are interested in offers to them out in the real world. By taking chemistry, history, etc., it opens up their perspectives and maybe convinces them that what they initially thought they wanted to do is not for them.18 year olds thinking they know what they want to do with the rest of their life leads to disgruntled 50 year olds who have been doing the same thing for their entire life who come too late to a realization that their life has been a waste.

Certainly hyperbole, but the basic premise of "take a couple years to figure your #### out before you dedicate a life to it" is a good mantra for teenagers.

Exactly. Get some basic classes out of the way that will transfer well to most majors, grow up a little, and maybe figure out what you truly want to do during those extra couple years while you are an adult starting to do adult things. Then come out of it after minimizing the damage of student loan debt.

Or go through three years of business school for 25-30k a year only to come to the realization than you hate the business world.

Two years at a technical college, where the credits can transfer to a University if so desired is, IMO, MUCH better then starting off at a University with extra debt..

As most have said... at 18 most "kids" have no idea what they really want to do with their life..

I have two friends who had "free rides" from their parents to college.. Both went to Universities( One to the University of Minnesota, the other Arizona) neither one had any clue what they wanted to do.. Both dropped out after two years and never went back..

One now works at AT& T customer Service with a 2nd job as a Pizza delivery man.. The other is Still trying to find his way and is a supervisor/manager at a Gas station.... and we left High School in 1986.

Meanwhile I spent the first two years after High School getting to know that "crappy" jobs weren't going to do it it for me and figuring out what I really wanted to do.. Ended up finding a Computer/electronic class in the town I was living in which was a great decision..

Had I gone to a University I can almost guarantee you I'd be right there with my friends as I was a C Student in High School and there is no way general Classes at a University would have held my interest long enough..

 

[snogger]

Weird. I know plenty of people who went to community college to start and are doing quite well. Pretty much the opposite of losers.

It's not so good if you can ONLY get into community college, but if you use CC to cheaply get you where you need to go, it works quite well. I have seen it first hand many times.

The path where you go to CC for a while then finish up at a state school is an excellent path to quite a few common majors, and jobs.

I really get tired of the "Have to go to a University or you are a loser" snobs.. I mean, there are some career paths where the University makes sense, but NOT all career paths require a University degree..

I mentioned this above..

We know someone who graduated high school last summer.. He wants to be a Network administrator... His parents were the "snob" type who forced him to go to a University because they believe the only way to succeed in life is to graduate from a University..

Meanwhile, others that graduated with him with the same interest are going to a two year Technical College.. They will be in the work force for two years before he graduates..

When it comes to the Computer World, experience trumps almost everything.. he will have more debt and will behind those that went the two year school path..

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

 

[cstu]

When it comes to the Computer World, experience trumps almost everything.. he will have more debt and will behind those that went the two year school path..

It will be difficult to advance without a four year degree.

 

[ghostguy123]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

I imagine the percentage of people now who help as much or more than their parents did is going to be a very very low percentage based on increased costs of college and cost of living.

 

[ghostguy123]

When it comes to the Computer World, experience trumps almost everything.. he will have more debt and will behind those that went the two year school path..

It will be difficult to advance without a four year degree.

Lots of companaties will pay for you to get a bachelors while you are working for them.

 

[The_Man]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

My parents were pretty poor, so my siblings and I did well in financial aid. But they gave absolutely every cent they could afford and left us with manageable loans that were pretty easy to pay off.

There's no way I'm doing less than my parents did - the main reason that I have everything I do today (including much less need for financial aid for my kids than they had for theirs) is because of what they did, and I am happy to do the same for my kids.

The only caveat to that is that we're going in with our eyes much more wide open than my parents did. Turns out we were lucky in our poverty because we qualified for all kinds of goodies - Pell Grant, Stafford loan, lots of school grants - that we didn't even know about going into the process. Because we didn't really get much college counseling, it would have been pretty easy for my parents to have gotten stuck with a giant bunch of loans, had their income been a little higher. Our son knows he can't completely ignore cost when it comes time to put all his choices on the table and decide where to go.

 

[snogger]

When it comes to the Computer World, experience trumps almost everything.. he will have more debt and will behind those that went the two year school path..

It will be difficult to advance without a four year degree.

Not from my experience.. I have a 2 year degree and have been offered multiple management jobs based on experience.. But I like the work I do and would rather just be the "grunt" that is getting close to 6 figures without having to deal with Management headaches..

The manager I report to "only" has a two year degree, and his manager ( our IT Director) started with a two year degree.. He told me that after a few years working he decided he wanted to move up to "Upper Management" and used the Companies benefits to get his Bachelor degree..

 

[snogger]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

My parents paid nothing.. heck, they didn't even encourage me to go to college.. I hate to disparage my parents but both sucked when it came to preparing me for "Adult Life".. Basically when I was 18 they said "have fun " ..

There were times during college where I had bread, Peanut butter and that was about it in my apartment.. Even got to a point where they shut off my electricity in March.. and anyone that has lived up here knows heat is kind of important even in March.. My wife's parents( She was girlfriend at the time) allowed me to move into their basement as neither of my parents even offered to help. :(

So I'm at the opposite end of you and I am making sure my daughter doesn't have to go through the hell I did..

 

[Cjw_55106]

With three kids and the fact that I'm not a rich man, there is no way I can afford to pay for their college. We will do the best we can for them, but they will have to help out with work and loans.

I will be talking to them seriously about the trade schools. There is a HUGE and serious shortage of workers in all the trades: HVAC, electricians, plumbers, etc. And these kids that have half a brain and are presentable and are responsible and willing to work hard and know a trade are set for life. After two or three years of experience they can make 40-50k a year with room to still grow financially. And then soon can make in the 70-90k range. And have job security to fix all the stuff the hair-brained millenials can't fix and are willing to pay for.

I know youve posted something along these lines before, so I assume you are serious about it. My two cents...its OK to lay the options on the table, but to brow beat your kids into a career is pretty ####ty IMO.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

My parents paid nothing.. heck, they didn't even encourage me to go to college.. I hate to disparage my parents but both sucked when it came to preparing me for "Adult Life".. Basically when I was 18 they said "have fun " ..

There were times during college where I had bread, Peanut butter and that was about it in my apartment.. Even got to a point where they shut off my electricity in March.. and anyone that has lived up here knows heat is kind of important even in March.. My wife's parents( She was girlfriend at the time) allowed me to move into their basement as neither of my parents even offered to help. :(

So I'm at the opposite end of you and I am making sure my daughter doesn't have to go through the hell I did..

Will help more. Had both of these experiences, wished parents had better advice (18 & see ya) but they did help financially to the point I always had heat. But I worked during college, nearly full time, which is another thing that isn't like it was for our generation.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

Similar situation here. My parents paid for my liberal arts undergraduate degree in full. Grad school was a non-factor since it was a PhD program -- assuming you have a graduate assistantship, you get paid to go to school at that point.

I think I kind of lucked out that my son's first choice is a public university that my state has reciprocity with. My wife and I can afford four years of that no problem. Not sure what my daughter will be looking for, but given that we got by okay on our son, that gives us a little more of a buffer for her.

 

[eoMMan]

Honestly, I think college savings for your kid should be treated just like your retirement....make it a requirement that HAS to be done.

Yes, you might have a hard saving up a full ride for each kid but it's important that you save something and start when they are born.

In fact, maybe have one less kid if you forsee having issues saving for retirement and their education. Yeah, I said it.....breeders.

 

[belljr]

My son got into a great coop.

We paid the first year everything.

After that his coop pays room and board and we pay tuition.

We had him get the max loans and I pay them off monthly and the difference in cash

 

[mr roboto]

My grandparents paid for a small liberal arts private college. Part of the reason they did is my father died when I was young and they promised to help me get the education that they thought I needed to be successful.

I studied hard and graduated with a 3.5 GPA in a field that leads to job opportunities fairly easily. I had many friends at school that were either taking out loans or working many hours to offset the cost because their folks couldn't afford to send them.

We will most likely be able to pay for our children's college but honestly I want them to have some skin in the game. I think my experience was somewhat exceptional in that I didn't really feel like I was getting something handed to me because I knew my whole life that this was partly my father's legacy that I was trying to uphold. I put enough pressure on myself to do well and not take for granted the opportunity that was given to me but I'm afraid that's not always the case.

So to answer a question above, I got my college paid for but I'm probably not going to just offer a blank check like that to my children, although if they choose a school that's reasonable and they get good scholarships they might get enough help from me that they end up going for free anyway.

 

[NutterButter]

What's the downside again to your kids have maybe 30k in loans when they graduate? That's really not a lot of money. At a low interest rate that's even deductible over 20 years, that's peanuts.

 

[eoMMan]

What's the downside again to your kids have maybe 30k in loans when they graduate? That's really not a lot of money. At a low interest rate that's even deductible over 20 years, that's peanuts.

Because their earnings will be lowest right out of college and that money could be put much more useful things such as first home, retirement, maybe wedding, guns, pitbulls, etc.

 

[Shrugs]

College is so much more expensive now than when most of us went, I'm not even sure it is worth it. I'm OK walking away with less than $50k in loans to pay back. But $50k is about the cost to attend one year at private universities these days. I followed OP's suggested path 14 years ago, attending a CC and transferring to a private university. I still walked away with $40k in loans, and now the university's tuition is twice what it was 14 years ago. The price increases are ridiculous. My half brother is currently at the same school, following my transfer path, and he will probably walk away with $80k in loans for just the two years.

 

[Slapdash]

It was always expected that I would earn my way through college via scholarships. That limited my options for where to go. I only applied to public in-state schools and got a lot of scholarships. I worked internships and other jobs. Eventually took a small student loan because I wanted to spend a bit more money than I had projected to come in.

Would likely do something similar with the caveat of helping more if a higher status school made sense.

Too many people go to school on someone else's dime and pay a lot of this cost of attendance waste. So many people I went to school with graduated with no concept of money or financial tradeoffs. Also a lot easier to party too much and effect your grades when you don't have skin in the game.

 

[NutterButter]

College is so much more expensive now than when most of us went, I'm not even sure it is worth it. I'm OK walking away with less than $50k in loans to pay back. But $50k is about the cost to attend one year at private universities these days. I followed OP's suggested path 14 years ago, attending a CC and transferring to a private university. I still walked away with $40k in loans, and now the university's tuition is twice what it was 14 years ago. The price increases are ridiculous. My half brother is currently at the same school, following my transfer path, and he will probably walk away with $80k in loans for just the two years.

What school?

 

[Slapdash]

Like meal plans, what a joke

 

[Slapdash]

Honestly, I think college savings for your kid should be treated just like your retirement....make it a requirement that HAS to be done.

Yes, you might have a hard saving up a full ride for each kid but it's important that you save something and start when they are born.

In fact, maybe have one less kid if you forsee having issues saving for retirement and their education. Yeah, I said it.....breeders.

Probably makes more sense to prioritize a custodial Roth for them once working in HS

 

[Instinctive]

Is there anyone here that will help their kids less with paying for college than their parents did for them?

I'm asking because I went to a fancy private college and my parents paid for it in full. I went to a fancy private law school and they paid part (I took the rest in loans). I sorta feel like I would be betraying my kids if I don't give them the sort of financial support that I got (assuming I'm in the position to do so).

Similar situation here. My parents paid for my liberal arts undergraduate degree in full. Grad school was a non-factor since it was a PhD program -- assuming you have a graduate assistantship, you get paid to go to school at that point.

I think I kind of lucked out that my son's first choice is a public university that my state has reciprocity with. My wife and I can afford four years of that no problem. Not sure what my daughter will be looking for, but given that we got by okay on our son, that gives us a little more of a buffer for her.

My parents gave me a specific dollar amount and said "This is yours. We planned for you to use it for college. If situations change a little and your younger brother ends up getting a little more, we'll make up the difference to you. Spend it on school and take loans, go to school on scholarship and then use it for grad school, or go to school on scholarship and keep it as a nest egg."

We had many discussions about the options and my likely outcomes. I took a full ride, used the money to pay for room and boar all 4 years, and then used the rest for the first part of law school. Now, to finish my grad school, I'm on school aid and loans. Fortunately, the GSB has a gigantic aid pool, including one specifically for JD/MBAs, of which there are very few.

I plan to do the same with my kids. I will give you this much. Use it as you wish, and I will help you talk through decisions.