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As federal debt reaches $22.5T, partisan hack flip flops stance on deficit spending (1 Viewer)

or you could just tax carbon and raise revenue.  why everyone thinks you need to spend trillions to combat climate change is beyond me.

 
boots11234 said:
Lol. This has been said many times in the past. But I’m sure this time, this time , global warming is true. 
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You get that it is an iterative process right? Or did someone tell you it was a binary thing where it just happens one day? Seriously, read up on it. Until you are actually informed, don't vote. There is a ton of data out there showing that not only is climate change real, but it is happening right before our eyes. If someone wants to ignore these signs in 2019, there's probably little hope for that person.

 
rockaction said:
Why this became a climate change debate is sort of beyond me -- oh yes, tim.
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It is unfortunate, but it will cost money to get on the right side of history on that topic. It is one of many things we'll need to prioritize over entitlement programs when deciding how to balance our budget.

 
FF Ninja said:
You get that it is an iterative process right? Or did someone tell you it was a binary thing where it just happens one day? Seriously, read up on it. Until you are actually informed, don't vote. There is a ton of data out there showing that not only is climate change real, but it is happening right before our eyes. If someone wants to ignore these signs in 2019, there's probably little hope for that person.
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I haven't read anything on climate change to make me change my mind that it is a pressing issue.

 
Don't Noonan said:
I haven't read anything on climate change to make me change my mind that it is a pressing issue.
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Exactly. It is a pressing issue and I would need to see a lot of solid, peer-reviewed literature to change my mind. In fact, I can't find anything legitimate that says it isn't a pressing issue. It is only getting more pressing every day.

 
rockaction said:
Why this became a climate change debate is sort of beyond me -- oh yes, tim.
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I'll take the blame for originally bringing up climate change. I did so for comparative purposes.

Our federal government does not do well handling large, long-term, insidious problems that affect both everyone and no one at the same time...where the impact is at some point in the future that is impossible to predict.

There is only political downside for someone seeking a 4-6 year term to make national debt a part of their platform when most voters are just trying to make a day-to-day living.

Just ride the train.

 
Don't Noonan said:
:lmao: . So I will put you in the responsible camp that wants to spend billions on climate change, free healthcare, free education right?   :lol:
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You can add me to those that want to do the responsible things that promote the general welfare of the nation.  That is as opposed to those that dream of “starving the beast” so a bankrupted nation can afford nothing.

 
FF Ninja said:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/politics/treasury-us-budget-deficit-widens/index.html

The US budget deficit jumped 23.1% in the first nine months of the fiscal year compared with the same period a year ago, according to the US Treasury.
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The Trump administration is predicting that the budget deficit will likely exceed $1 trillion for the entire fiscal year, which ends on Sept. 30. That's up from $779 billion a year earlier.
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This is quite unbelievable given the condition of the economy.

 
The Commish said:
This is quite unbelievable given the condition of the economy.
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It's asinine, but the sheep eat it up. Most are completely unaware of the deficit. It's just "hurr durr, the economy is doing great under Trump." Absolutely no knowledge of things like federal deficit or trade deficit. They only know that their 401k is looking good and that Fox News tells them unemployment is perfect.

Someone wrote yesterday that if Clinton was found guilty of anything with Epstein, his base would reject him. If Trump was found guilty, his base would reject the findings. It's nothing but fake news and conspiracy theories on that side. Nobody even seeks truth or knowledge over there.

 
jon_mx said:
I don't fault Kudlow for making contradictory comments now that he is in his current position.  He has to defend the administration's policy.  The fault lies in him even taking the job which he knew he would have to do it.  Maybe he thought he could help make a difference and steer the ship in a better direction.  But the optics are he is a sellout.  
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I disagree. He’s an advisor and should be advising as to what he sees is best, not just towing a line imo.

 
Ilov80s said:
I disagree. He’s an advisor and should be advising as to what he sees is best, not just towing a line imo.
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No love for Kudlow but a good advisor to the President does both: he advises behind the scenes but expresses loyalty publicly. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Not at the expense of ruining your credibility imo. That’s just my take personal view.
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No I agree with that. At this point even working for Trump is IMO a permanent stain that will never be erased from one’s record. Look at Bob Barr yesterday. How pathetic. 

 
The increasing deficit will eventually put upward pressure on interest rates.  For now, lower interest rates will prevent service on the debt from  becoming an even larger portion of the deficit.

How do the deficits compare with the Trump projections thus far? 

 
SoBeDad said:
The increasing deficit will eventually put upward pressure on interest rates.  For now, lower interest rates will prevent service on the debt from  becoming an even larger portion of the deficit.

How do the deficits compare with the Trump projections thus far? 
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Nothing the $1 Trillion dollar coin can't fix.

 
Amused to Death said:
The deficit has joined "Christian morals" and "ethics" as things conservatives can never complain about. Oh, let's add "ruling by Executive Order" to that growing list as well.
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Also narcissism (remember when they used to count the number of times Obama used the word "I" in speeches?).  And lack of experience. And ignoring/dismissing half the country. And guilt by association.

You could fully account for what conservatives call "Trump Derangement Syndrome" just by cataloguing conservative complaints about Obama and pointing out that Trump is demonstrably and significantly worse on every single one of them. You don't even have to get into all the other stuff, of which there is obviously a treasure trove.

 
Everything we are doing is short sighted. We have all this wealth and knowledge to use and all we do is try to horde the wealth and keep people from getting educated so they don’t figure out you’re keeping all the money so you can let your sheik buddy kill someone and ride your other friends pedo bang plane. They all suck. Water will become an issue and exacerbate housing and other issues, and my kid will grow up in some sort of weird mix between mad max and waterworld. 

 
FF Ninja said:
I'm worried about our debt, so naturally I'm worried about the guy who is advising the nutjob with six bankruptcies who is doing the spending.
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You really shouldn't be worried about the nation's debt.

Or the advisor that's spending it .

It's out of your control. Worrying about it is a waste of time.

My opinion

 
joffer said:
or you could just tax carbon and raise revenue.  why everyone thinks you need to spend trillions to combat climate change is beyond me.
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This might be better suited for the climate thread, but: the IPCC has been awfully clear on how quickly we need to decrease our emissions and there’s no way we get there with a carbon tax alone. It’s a fine policy and can certainly be part of the transition away from fossil fuels, but it can’t be the beginning and end of our actions on climate change.

 
Perhaps the most insidious aspect of the national debt problem is the interest payments.

By 2028 CBO forecasts that interest on the debt will go from its current level of ~$300 billion to about $915 billion...by 2024 interest on the debt (which of course is non-discretionary) will exceed the military budget.

So in 10 years the U.S. will have the equivalent of a $1 trillion annual social program which will provide absolutely no net additional benefit to society...other than sustaining our current standard of living.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2018/11/we-will-soon-be-spending-more-on-national-debt-interest-than-on-these-vital-programs

 
caustic said:
This might be better suited for the climate thread, but: the IPCC has been awfully clear on how quickly we need to decrease our emissions and there’s no way we get there with a carbon tax alone. It’s a fine policy and can certainly be part of the transition away from fossil fuels, but it can’t be the beginning and end of our actions on climate change.
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agree. combat not solve.  just hate the “this will cost us trillions” schtick 

 
PhantomJB said:
Perhaps the most insidious aspect of the national debt problem is the interest payments.

By 2028 CBO forecasts that interest on the debt will go from its current level of ~$300 billion to about $915 billion...by 2024 interest on the debt (which of course is non-discretionary) will exceed the military budget.

So in 10 years the U.S. will have the equivalent of a $1 trillion annual social program which will provide absolutely no net additional benefit to society...other than sustaining our current standard of living.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2018/11/we-will-soon-be-spending-more-on-national-debt-interest-than-on-these-vital-programs
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Yep.   Amazing that more people don't realize this.  The level of ignorance and apathy in this country is appalling.  We are in deep, deep trouble if annual interest payments on the debt ever reach close to $1T per year.

 
timschochet said:
I appreciate the responses to my question. Let me offer some of my own thoughts. 

1. Climate change isn’t a hoax and we’re going to have to spend a LOT of money on it. That doesn’t mean we have to adopt the Green New Deal. I still believe, for now, we can make the transition to a non carbon fueled economy with less draconian solutions. 

2. Whatever we do with healthcare should be a wash hopefully. The point is to have a more efficient system spending less than we do now. 

3. Cutting the military at this point is problematic because so many people in this country have jobs connected in some way to it. It’s also politically untenable: there were slight cuts under Obama and they’ve all been reversed. 

4. Raising taxes runs the risk of stifling economic growth. In addition if we raise taxes to spend more money rather than to pay off the debt, what exactly are we accomplishing in terms of the debt? Nothing. We’re going to have to raise taxes but cautiously. 

As you guys can tell, I don’t have any good answers here. 
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5.  Time-honored tradition of kicking the can down the road.

 
Funny how this is all a big joke to conservatives now.  Unlike every other "booming" "best economy in the history of the galaxy" the debt is increasing at recession levels.  How is this even acceptable to so called conservatives?  Did Clinton increase the debt?

What an upside down world we live in.  Our kids will get hammered but damn those libs are getting owned!!

SMH....

 
boots11234 said:
Lol. This has been said many times in the past. But I’m sure this time, this time , global warming is true. 
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I can not believe we live in a world today where people actually think this way.  Unreal.  But, I guess is human nature, people denied smoking caused cancer for decades after it was clear it did.  

 
dkp993 said:
I can not believe we live in a world today where people actually think this way.  Unreal.  But, I guess is human nature, people denied smoking caused cancer for decades after it was clear it did.  
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You’d be astounded at what conservatives can convince themselves is fake with the help of Trump.  It’s insane.

 
James Daulton said:
Funny how this is all a big joke to conservatives now.  Unlike every other "booming" "best economy in the history of the galaxy" the debt is increasing at recession levels.  How is this even acceptable to so called conservatives?  Did Clinton increase the debt?

What an upside down world we live in.  Our kids will get hammered but damn those libs are getting owned!!

SMH....
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You can put me in the camp that is conservative and hates the amount of the Federal debt.  Unfortunately there is no easy solution for politicians so I don't see it getting fixed any time soon.

 
PhantomJB said:
Perhaps the most insidious aspect of the national debt problem is the interest payments.

By 2028 CBO forecasts that interest on the debt will go from its current level of ~$300 billion to about $915 billion...by 2024 interest on the debt (which of course is non-discretionary) will exceed the military budget.

So in 10 years the U.S. will have the equivalent of a $1 trillion annual social program which will provide absolutely no net additional benefit to society...other than sustaining our current standard of living.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2018/11/we-will-soon-be-spending-more-on-national-debt-interest-than-on-these-vital-programs
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And guess who will (likely) be walking out of the Oval Office with his hands held high claiming greatest President ever.  Why anyone would ever think he’d anything different then he ever has with his own business is beyond me.  Only this time it wouldn’t be contractor’s or vendor’s left holding the bag it will be us.  

 
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