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As federal debt reaches $22.5T, partisan hack flip flops stance on deficit spending (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter FF Ninja
- Start date
dkp993
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Trump has given us this "booming" economy and I believe the tax cuts were very good for most Americans and that it will start paying for itself. Give me a President who will reduce government regulations and lower taxes every day of the week over a President who wants to add more entitlements and raise taxes.
Trump has been awesome for the United States.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
Yet the debt and trade deficits are increasing bigly while gdp is still less than 3%. Sounds pretty bigly bad to me.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I would have admitted if I was wrong. I was right as usual. Hopefully you and the Dems can start campaigning on issues on not on Trump hate.
James Daulton
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
Let not derail this thread like every other one in this forum (though I completely agree with the bolded).
The economy is on fire, unfortunately it’s the house thats burning. But hey it sure is warm.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
OK. But it didn't pan out to anything proven. Do you get mad at the birthers who still believe Obama was born in Kenya?
James Daulton
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
boots11234
Footballguy
How about shrinking the federal government back to what the founders envisioned it doing?
dkp993
Footballguy
Thats an interesting idea for sure, and I love the idea of getting rid of the career politicians, but how does it scale up? The founding fathers couldn’t possibly have ever imagined a country of well over 300 million people (population at the time was around 2.5 million).
I think it's great that we've become prosperous enough as a nation to expand the government into valuable social services.
The problem is not size per se but living within our means.
sho nuff
Footballguy
boots11234
Footballguy
boots11234
Footballguy
And this is how it became so large in the first place. “Just this one program to help people”. No. Federal government should handle all things spelled out and the states are responsible for everything else. States would then have to compete for population and tax dollars.
The bigger the government the smaller the person. - Dennis Prager
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
If a democrat wins the POTUS in 2020 republicans will be insane with anger about it. I would bet everything I have on it if I could.
sho nuff
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Solar is already (and wind close to) cheaper than fossil fuels so the carbon fee may not be needed.
That said, is the carbon fee and dividend revenue neutral for the individual? Because if it is it seems pointless. If it isn't, well, individuals vote - and often with their bank account in mind
msommer
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
about the same per year addition that Obama years had then
No. According to the CBO, the Trump tax cuts increased the total projected deficit over the 2018–2028 period by about $1.9 trillion.total, of which $600 billion is increased interest expense.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/53787
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
If you saw two guys named Hambone and Flippy, which one would you think like dolphins the most? I'd say Flippy, wouldn't you? You'd be wrong though. It's Hambone.joffer said:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Obama's 8 years added 9 trillion +/- right ... about 1.2 trillion a year ... almost double the national debt that was added by every other administraitonPhantomJB said:
If Trump's years STAYS at 1.2 trillion a year? That's a massive success
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/13/694199256/u-s-national-debt-hits-22-trillion-a-new-record-thats-predicted-to-fall
Yes. Looked at from the simplistic perspective of a full 8-year period that is correct...the average annual deficits would be roughly equal.
I would personally look at it from the perspective of what the Obama deficit run rate was for the last few years as the annual baseline...the rationale being that the Great Recession was a one-time catastrophic event that required extraordinary stimulus.
There is nothing currently going on economically that requires anywhere near that level of stimulus and resulting deficit. Just fiscal mismanagement.
I don't think any objective analysis would call what Trump has done a massive success...but this is a political forum so of course partisans to each party will view it differently.
The Commish
Footballguy
Did you even read the link?
Or did you just see that it says 1.2 trillion on average and see that was Obama's average so you concluded, "hey, the same" and moved on? I can't help but wonder how much worse it would have been in Trump's second two years had the GOP held all three branches.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
there is always going to be excuses for everything
right now, we could say that the illegal immigration, Syria, ISIS and NK/Iran disasters Obama's 8 years left for Trump is a reason for spending? I mean its always something isn't it ?
The Commish
Footballguy
You could say that, but you'd be completely wrong. The primary reason for the hike in the deficit under this president is the tax cut bill you guys cheered on. That's not even up for debate.
I know you aren't in this for honest debate, but this is my providing of context for others.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Will be interesting to watch in 2021 when democrats stop complaining about the debt and the GOP starts making it a big deal again.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Honest question. Do you actually believe the circumstances regarding Obama's increasing the debt and Trump's are even remotely similar?Stealthycat said:
Because if you do, then the forces of Trump darkness have more successfully taken over his supporter's minds than I thought. I used to think it was just all about hating Obama and owning libs.
sho nuff
Footballguy
That and calling those other things disasters left by Obama was pretty laughable. Everyone of those situations was better when Trump took over than it is today outside of ISIS which was dwindling when he took over and he managed not to screw it up.
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The Commish
Footballguy
why?
This happens every single election cycle. The only difference this time around is Trump has completely eradicated the notion that the GOP is concerned about the deficit/debt. They no longer have that rock to hide behind. It's official, they too are hypocrites on this topic. If there's anything interesting about this it's going to be seeing how concerned Trump supporters and GOP supporters really are about deficits/debt. I suspect they aren't and it's not going to change their voting habits in any meaningful way. Given some of the
around here with regard to debt/deficit, you'd expect some to look elsewhere for people to support.James Daulton
Footballguy
Quarter 2 GDP will likely come in around 2% or less. This means that 3% for the year will be virtually impossible so he'll be going into an election where 3 of the promises he made to get elected (GDP>3%, lowered trade deficit, eliminating debt) are all either the same as they were before he elected (GDP) or markedly worse (trade and debt).
He should get destroyed on the economy. god forbid the market pulls back or that unemployment ticks back up to 4%+. What will he possibly have to run on? If I'm the dems, this is what I focus on bundled with another promise broken (healthcare) and the US being the laughingstocks of the world for electing him.
It should be a bloodbath...but that open border/free healthcare for illegals platform has got to go.
He should get destroyed on the economy. god forbid the market pulls back or that unemployment ticks back up to 4%+. What will he possibly have to run on? If I'm the dems, this is what I focus on bundled with another promise broken (healthcare) and the US being the laughingstocks of the world for electing him.
It should be a bloodbath...but that open border/free healthcare for illegals platform has got to go.
For an independent voter this issue is a push.why?
This happens every single election cycle. The only difference this time around is Trump has completely eradicated the notion that the GOP is concerned about the deficit/debt. They no longer have that rock to hide behind. It's official, they too are hypocrites on this topic. If there's anything interesting about this it's going to be seeing how concerned Trump supporters and GOP supporters really are about deficits/debt. I suspect they aren't and it's not going to change their voting habits in any meaningful way. Given some of the
On the right, you've GOP deficit reduction supporters (e.g. the politician formerly known as Paul Ryan) getting steamrolled by Trump's tax cut impacts.
On the left, you've got a new gazillion dollar social program proposed every week.
IMO GOP still has the higher ground because the tax cuts were a one-time thing. If something like free college gets implemented it's gonna be there forever.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You can't compare hypothetical campaign proposes to actual legislation and policies. It makes no sense. Even in the very very very unlikely event that something like free college actually came to pass, the people who passed it could conceivably pay for it through tax increases or cuts elsewhere rather than by borrowing.
Politicians on both sides make elaborate campaign promises without explaining how they'd pay for it. There's nothing new about that. However only one side has passed deficit-exploding tax cuts and started unprovoked war in Iraq without paying for it.
Finally, it makes no sense to say that permanent tax cuts that add to the deficit every time a person or business pays less in taxes were a "one time thing." In a bizarro universe where free college gets implemented and isn't paid for through tax increases or cuts, it would be no different than permanent tax cuts in terms of "being there forever."
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The Commish
Footballguy
I'll ignore the fact you are comparing a hypo to actually passed legislation for the time being. No...they permanent at least for companies. they will happen every single year until the code changes again.
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Lol. I knew I'd get a reaction from the partisans.
Obama had a chance to implement the Simpson-Bowles Act in 2011. He didn't. Case closed on Democrats having the higher ground.
In the bizarro world I live in we would actually raise taxes first and then specifically earmark them for deficit reduction. Take the short-term pain economically but it has to come at some point.
you are correct...it must be baked into my thinking that these were so dumb any reasonable administration would reverse them as soon as Trump leaves office.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You didn't address any of my points. You just called me a partisan (as if that somehow discredits the points) and changed the subject.
Ask a direct question and I'll answer it.
You seem to think the Democrats will be able to implement all their proposed social programs in a deficit neutral way? Good luck with that.
Maybe if there was a single question about deficit reduction/national debt raised during the four hours of Democratic debates then what you're saying would have some credibility.
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