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Avoid Mike Wallace, the Raven? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Shutout
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beef
Footballguy
he's smart. flacco's got the arm and down field accuracy to hit wallace. something he hasn't had since he left pitt.
Copeman
Footballguy
beef said it, just a few posts up.
This decision WAS smart. He does need a QB who can, and will, throw the ball deep. That's his game. In Miami, with Tannehill's inaccuracy on deep balls, then in Minny with unwillingness/inability to throw deep, he was never going to be successful. IF he is going to be successful in the NFL, he needs a QB who can throw a good deep ball, and Flacco is one of the best (and most willing) in the NFL.
Copeman
Footballguy
That's not why he signed there. He signed because they were willing to give him the most money/willing to sign him at all. It's just a convenient turn of events that Baltimore just happens to have a QB that can throw a good deep ball and is willing to.
Don't let that fool you.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think he and Travis Benjamin really made a lot of $ when the entire WR group ran relatively slow at the combine.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Copeman
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I dislike Wallace as much as the next guy but this was one of the best landing places for him. Not a whole lot of competition in front of him and a great deep ball QB. If he cant succeed here then he wasnt going to do well anywhere.
Motivations for signing don't matter here in fantasy land. I'm not sure where to draft him, but my suspicion is that he'll end up as a value play - his expected finish will be significantly higher than his ADP. He's burned a lot of people over the past few years (I'm guessing 2014 was the only of those years where he finished above his ADP, although I think he was close in 2013) and the lack of recent 1000 yard seasons will scare off most people who will skip over him for the shinier toys with unlikely to be realized potential in 2016.
I took him as WR65 in WSL2 for some reference. That's dirt cheap. I'm sure that'll jump up a bit, but with Smiff and Perriman in town, I doubt he slides up past the WR40's and may not even get out of the 50's unless he gets some nice training camp buzz. Given that Perriman may never develop and Smiff is both old and coming off a catastrophic injury, Wallace has significant upside. I'll probably be down to pay a "one round above ADP" price for him in redraft and will definitely pay a few bucks for him in auction.
If Ginn can resurrect his career without learning to catch then I'm sure Wallace can turn things around. I still think he'd have been a better fit in Carolina, but Baltimore was probably the 2nd best fit for him due to lack of surrounding talent and QB abilities. If Arizona wasn't so stacked with WR talent, being reunited with Arians would've been really good for his fantasy prospects, too.
I took him as WR65 in WSL2 for some reference. That's dirt cheap. I'm sure that'll jump up a bit, but with Smiff and Perriman in town, I doubt he slides up past the WR40's and may not even get out of the 50's unless he gets some nice training camp buzz. Given that Perriman may never develop and Smiff is both old and coming off a catastrophic injury, Wallace has significant upside. I'll probably be down to pay a "one round above ADP" price for him in redraft and will definitely pay a few bucks for him in auction.
If Ginn can resurrect his career without learning to catch then I'm sure Wallace can turn things around. I still think he'd have been a better fit in Carolina, but Baltimore was probably the 2nd best fit for him due to lack of surrounding talent and QB abilities. If Arizona wasn't so stacked with WR talent, being reunited with Arians would've been really good for his fantasy prospects, too.
You don't know that. You don't know who was willing to sign him, or how much money anyone was willing to sign him for.
Wallace said he wanted to go to a team with a good, proven QB. He signed with a team with a good, proven QB, whose skill-set matches his perfectly.
You can choose to believe that Baltimore was the only team who wanted him because he left your favorite team, but that doesn't make it a fact.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
and Baltimore just regained a top 5 guy in the Flacco-pattented "chuck it a mile and pray for a DPI call" play.
Copeman
Footballguy
Yes it is my opinion.
I know based on his history that he is a very greedy, "me first" mentality person based on many of his decisions and from what other players/media have constantly said about him. So it is a very, very informed opinion.
Of course he is going to say that. You think he is going to say "I want to go to a team that pays me a lot of money"??
The fact that he left my favorite team has no bearing on what I think, other than the fallout of him leaving helped create my opinion of him as a person.
C'mon.....
It would be easy to say Mike Wallace the body catcher with terrible hands will flop in Baltimore just like his last two spots. Unfortunately after Ted Ginn's revival in Carolina I think Wallace has a decent shot to do well. I don't buy into the QB as his excuse for lack of production last three years though. I saw a guy who has bad hands and gave little effort out there. Dropped many catchable balls. However I do think he will have more volume in Baltimore and there is less talent at WR on this team than his last two, so the opportunity will be there. I just don't see him as a consistent starter in fantasy. More as a flex or bye week guy.
Really? Please share links to these decisions, and player/media comments about him. I'd like to see them.
But, please don't include links to him signing deals with Miami or Minny, or him asking to renegotiate a contract or ask for more money, since if those were signs of him being "very greedy," you'd have to call practically every player in the NFL "very greedy."
Copeman
Footballguy
Nah, I'm not gonna do that man. You aren't gonna change my opinion, I'm not gonna change yours. So what's the point? I'm not interested in internet forum battles.
I agree with most of what you are saying except I do think QB play impacted him and for his style of play Flacco is an immense upgrade versus his last two QB's, but for sure some of his problems the last few years was not fighting hard enough to make a catch that did not land in his bread basket. I also don't think Baltimore has less talent at WR then what he left behind in Minnesota where I view only Diggs as an NFL starting caliber WR, and he was a raw rookie.
He referenced Torrey Smith yesterday and I think that's a decent blueprint for him in Baltimore. Which as you said makes him a flex/bye week guy and a lot more useful in a DE league.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
If I recall, he quit during a game and then let a teammate answer for him in the locker room while he just stood there.
Of course, Maurkice and Mike Pouncey ripped him and he said it was the media taking it out of context.
Personally, I couldn't care less, but the guy ripped both the Vikings and Steelers after he left (not sure about the Dolphins). He's a classless guy IMO.
SWC
Bromigo
one thing about mike wallace is that he was a good announcer but is a horrible football player who will only break your heart when you need him to make one catch and he stinks up the joint yet again for the fifteenth week in a row my advice is just say la vee to this guy and go get you some of a real receiver you can count on like my main man gronk take that to the bank bromigos
My opinion could easily be changed, if your statements were based on facts that I could see.
You claim he's "very, very greedy" and that this is based on reports, and you claim that Baltimore was the highest bidder/only team willing to sign him. Both of those statements should be easily to prove, factually. I just need to see these reports of his greed, and reports that Baltimore was the only team willing to sign him/pay him as much as he wanted.
The fact is however, that Wallace is pretty much a 1-trick pony: he can take the top off a defense. Since he left your favorite team, he hasn't had a QB/offense to late him take advantage of that trick. Now, with Flacco, he does. He made a smart decision. If he had gone to KC, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to take advantage of his skill-set, and when his 2-year contract was up, he wouldn't have much value. IF, however, he does well with Flacco at QB, he could earn himself another contract & extend his career in the NFL.
Classless and greedy are two different things, though.
This conversation started because another poster (correctly) pointed out that Wallace made a smart decision by signing with a team that has a QB who can & will throw the ball deep.
Someone else said he only signed there because he's greedy. If he had said Wallace is classless, doesn't know how to be PC, doesn't own up to his mistakes, etc-I would have agreed with him.
But signing with a team that has a QB that can take advantage of his skill-set is smart, bottom line.
Copeman
Footballguy
Bayhawks said:
I'm not that interested enough in this conversation to do so. Sounds like a lot of work that I am unwilling to do.
You win, he's not greedy and his whole motivation for signing was because the Ravens have a good QB that can throw the deep ball. Even though Bridgewater was pretty good himself (10th that year in deep balls, not too shabby).
Wallace is the ultimate team player.
Good job, way to go!
Godsbrother
Footballguy
You may be right Bayhawks. He certainly does have the tools and situation to succeed in Baltimore, we will just need to see how it plays out.Bayhawks said:
I will tell you though that Wallace was wearing out his welcome in Pittsburgh well before he left for Miami. We began seeing signs in the second half of the 2011 season and he's been a disappointment since. I am not sure that makes him greedy but he would pout after games when he wasn't featured, even after big wins for the team, so I do think he's been selfish.
All that being said I think it is a good signing by the Ravens. If Wallace can play as he did in 2009 through the first half of 2011 then the Ravens are going to have a nice passing attack.
Agree 100% with all of the bolded. I don't think he's a "team" player by any stretch; he fits many of the stereotypes of a "diva" WR: I do great, team doesn't win-not my fault. I don't do good, but the team wins-whines & pouts.
But I don't care about that, and I hate the Ravens, so if he tears that team apart, but puts up FF points (at what I think will be a value ADP) that would be fine by me, all I care about is that he has a QB that can take advantage of his ability to get deep.
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A lot of work? You said that your opinion was based on "many" decisions he made and "constant" comments by media/players. If there really are many decisions and constant comments, a simple google search should turn them up without much effort and in very little time.
If you want to drop the conversation, that's fine; if you want to agree to disagree, that's fine, but when you make a statement like that, on a FF DISCUSSION board, I think it's a little naive to expect it to simply be accepted at face value.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He did have 67-862-10 for Miami in 2014, and that was with Tannehill missing him on a regular basis on deep balls where Wallace had the coverage beat.
He is kind of a one trick pony, but I think Baltimore is the perfect place for him, since Flacco can throw it long and accurate.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
Copeman
Footballguy
If it's that easy to find, which it is, google it your own #### self. And yes, I'd like to drop the conversation because it is boring me, knowing that I am right and you are wrong. If feels like I am talking to my girlfriend here. I don't need that #### here.
I did, that's what's funny; there isn't any substantiation for your claim.
Then drop the conversation. Or better yet, don't make stuff up that can't be supported, then start whining and calling names when it's pointed out that you are wrong.
Copeman
Footballguy
I never called you a name. I just posted my opinion on Mike Wallace that is based on numerous respected accounts that can IN FACT be proven. You are the one that chimed in and said I am wrong. So how about YOU show me links that say he is the ultimate teammate and NOT greedy. Or not. Whatever. I'm dropping it.
You claimed that this discussion is like arguing with your girlfriend; while that may not be "name-calling," you meant it as an insult.
I didn't chime in and say you were wrong, here's my 1st post:
I never said you were wrong, I asked you for links I could see myself. I don't think a player holding out, renegotiating a contract, or signing deals with a different team are examples of greed, just the business of the NFL, so I asked you not to provide those.
You got annoyed and said you weren't interested enough to do so (but, for some reason continue to post in the conversation?).
I didn't say you were wrong until after you said I should search for the support for YOUR claim. When I couldn't find support for your claim, THEN I said your claim was wrong.
Again, if you don't want to continue the conversation, then don't. If you do, please understand that I think Wallace could be a value-pick in Baltimore next year, so I will be in this thread, and since I'm interested in information to help me evaluate him, I will ask for links to claims like the one you made. Try not to take it personally.
Copeman
Footballguy
You're one of those people that feel they need the last word in anything, huh? Anyways, there are multiple links out there discussing his greed and being a not-so-great teammate, I can't grasp how you cannot find them. I found them with a quick search. Others here have as well. You can do the same. Have fun...
I never said anything about him being a great teammate (in fact, I think I specifically posted that I don't think he's a good teammate and I hope he is a bad influence on the Ravens locker room); being a bad teammate DOES NOT equate to greedy. So links to him being a bad teammate DON'T support your premise that he is greedy, and that's why he signed in Baltimore.
If you found these links with a quick search, then share them. I find it hard to believe that you claim it's too much work for you to do, then claim you did this "work," but still won't share the "multiple links" you claim to have found.
As for me having the last word, as I already said, I'm going to remain in this thread, because I feel Wallace could be a value play next year, and I'm interested in information and news about his role there. So, when I'm in the thread and I see posts DIRECTED TO ME, I'm going to respond to posts that you DIRECT TO ME. You, however, have said multiple times that you aren't that interested in this thread, that you're dropping it, or that you don't have time for this ####. Yet, you continue to post. Seems like you are "one of those people that feel they need the last word in anything, huh?"
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Copeman
Footballguy
Greed
More greed
Not a good teammate
More on that
I’m sure you’ll defend this all, but you asked for it. So yeah, I informed my opinion based on stuff like this (MUCH more out there). What have you based yours on? And before you say again that other players do this, I don’t care about that. We are discussing Wallace. What others do does NOT take away the fact that he too is greedy/bad teammate.
More greed
Not a good teammate
More on that
I’m sure you’ll defend this all, but you asked for it. So yeah, I informed my opinion based on stuff like this (MUCH more out there). What have you based yours on? And before you say again that other players do this, I don’t care about that. We are discussing Wallace. What others do does NOT take away the fact that he too is greedy/bad teammate.
The 3rd and 4th links are irrelevant; they talk to his being a bad teammate, not about him being greedy.
From the 1st link:
So Wallace is greedy because he didn't sign his RFA tender? So Wallace is greedy because he didn't take a below market-value deal because the Steelers had mis-managed their cap to the point that he couldn't pay him what he's worth? That's not greed, that's business.
From the 2nd link:
In this case, Wallace who has a contract from Miami, isn't willing to take a pay cut or restructure his contract. That's not greed either, that's business. Wallace didn't come close to earning his contract in Miami, but that doesn't make him greedy. Not giving back money or taking a pay cut doesn't make him greedy, either.
Roethlisberger only played in 12 games last year, did he give back 1/4 of his salary? No. Is that greedy? No, that's business.
Again, if these are your support that Wallace is greedy, then you'd have to call every NFL player (barring perhaps Brady) greedy. Because almost of them try to get as much money as possible, and I can't think of many who have given money back.
So, thanks for the links, but they don't prove that Wallace is greedy.
grateful zed
Footballguy
get a room
Typical of what?Typical....
You provided links, I read them, and decided that they don't prove to me that Wallace is greedy.
I thanked you for providing them, but like I said, if those articles prove Wallace is greedy, then they prove that pretty much every NFL player should be described as greedy.
That being said, I still contend Wallace made a smart decision in going to a team with a QB who can take advantage of his skill-set. As a result, he could be a value-play next season.
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