Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (1 Viewer)

[Widbil83]

How is de Blasio going to handle this growing NYC issue

I wouldn't be surprised if we see de Blasio in one of these live shots marching with the protest.

 

[The_Man]

Tweet from Jayne Miller on Baltimore's NBC station: BPD Commissioner Anthony Batts on 4/23 told us second prisoner in police van said Freddie Gray was "mostly quiet".

 

[Smack Tripper]

Tweet from Jayne Miller on Baltimore's NBC station: BPD Commissioner Anthony Batts on 4/23 told us second prisoner in police van said Freddie Gray was "mostly quiet".

Whole thing reeks of a "hey you want to walk on this charge, play ball"

 

[BassNBrew]

I will be fascinated to learn how a shackled man crushed his own voice box.

In the meantime it looks like another day of orderly protests and no riots in Baltimore. I know that must be terribly disappointing to some of this thread's most frequent posters. Hang in there. Maybe tomorrow!

I will be too. Doesn't make sense.

In the meantime, enjoy the empty ballpark and the mounting law enforcement bills due to the orderly protests.

 

[rockaction]

I will be fascinated to learn how a shackled man crushed his own voice box.

In the meantime it looks like another day of orderly protests and no riots in Baltimore. I know that must be terribly disappointing to some of this thread's most frequent posters. Hang in there. Maybe tomorrow!

I will be too. Doesn't make sense.

In the meantime, enjoy the empty ballpark and the mounting law enforcement bills due to the orderly protests.

Ouch. You forgot the city-wide 10 PM curfew. A city full of fifteen-year-old daughters for the next week.

 

[The_Man]

I will be fascinated to learn how a shackled man crushed his own voice box.

In the meantime it looks like another day of orderly protests and no riots in Baltimore. I know that must be terribly disappointing to some of this thread's most frequent posters. Hang in there. Maybe tomorrow!

I will be too. Doesn't make sense.

In the meantime, enjoy the empty ballpark and the mounting law enforcement bills due to the orderly protests.

Why would anyone enjoy those things?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can someone please recount for me what led to Gray's arrest? What did he do, exactly that led the cops to bust him? Thanks.

- Also as for the alleged wild behavior in the van, given his history with distribution anyone see any chance for toxicology results in the autopsy explaining this? And perhaps that is the holdup? Just asking.

 

[carverlee]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Can someone please recount for me what led to Gray's arrest? What did he do, exactly that led the cops to bust him? Thanks.

- Also as for the alleged wild behavior in the van, given his history with distribution anyone see any chance for toxicology results in the autopsy explaining this? And perhaps that is the holdup? Just asking.

He made eye contact with the police.https://www.google.com/#q=gray+made+eye+contact+with+the+police

 

[MattFancy]

Can someone please recount for me what led to Gray's arrest? What did he do, exactly that led the cops to bust him? Thanks.

- Also as for the alleged wild behavior in the van, given his history with distribution anyone see any chance for toxicology results in the autopsy explaining this? And perhaps that is the holdup? Just asking.

I heard they are awaiting toxicology reports

 

[PinkydaPimp]

David Simon Talks About Where the Baltimore Police Went Wrong

Because the drug war made cops lazy and less competent?How do you reward cops? Two ways: promotion and cash. That's what rewards a cop. If you want to pay overtime pay for having police fill the jails with loitering arrests or simple drug possession or failure to yield, if you want to spend your municipal treasure rewarding that, well the cop who's going to court seven or eight days a month—and court is always overtime pay—you're going to damn near double your salary every month. On the other hand, the guy who actually goes to his post and investigates who's burglarizing the homes, at the end of the month maybe he's made one arrest. It may be the right arrest and one that makes his post safer, but he's going to court one day and he's out in two hours. So you fail to reward the cop who actually does police work. But worse, it's time to make new sergeants or lieutenants, and so you look at the computer and say: Who's doing the most work? And they say, man, this guy had 80 arrests last month, and this other guy's only got one. Who do you think gets made sergeant? And then who trains the next generation of cops in how not to do police work?

 

[matttyl]

Just as an FYI, one of the cops involved in transport came out 6 days ago saying he thought any injuries occurred before Grey went in the van. So that contradicts what Passenger 2 is now saying. Everyone involved is obviously going to say whatever advances their own agenda

Not necessarily. He could have been somewhat hurt prior to going into the van, and then gotten really hurt during the ride (how so is the question). One doesn't totally refute the other.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

 

[tom22406]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

 

[KCitons]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?

I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

 

[Passenger]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

I would start by finding a better place to gather advice. A football message board full of sanctimonious know-it-alls, bigots and instigators probably isn't your best bet for actual insight.

 

[KCitons]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

I would start by finding a better place to gather advice. A football message board full of sanctimonious know-it-alls, bigots and instigators probably isn't your best bet for actual insight.

Fair enough. But, hope springs eternal. There are some intelligent people on this board, with diverse backgrounds. It may take some filtering, but there can be good info.

 

[Hang 10]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

 

[timschochet]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

Silly?

 

[Apple Jack]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

yep, that's it. all the protests are merely silly knee-jerk responses to a single, isolated event.

mind blown.

 

[shadrap]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

I would start by finding a better place to gather advice. A football message board full of sanctimonious know-it-alls, bigots and instigators probably isn't your best bet for actual insight.

So where do you go? Your obviously here for a reason.

 

[timschochet]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Very reasonable question. Last night, HIllary Clinton gave a very thoughtful and nuanced speech about this subject which included a few specific proposals that might help. I posted the transcript in the Clinton thread. You want to help? Vote for her and for politicians who think like her. That's my serious answer.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?

I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Yesterday I wrote a long post about the problem of saying that these issues are rooted in "lack of self-motivation" or however you want to put it, so that would be my response to the bolded. But that's just my own thoughts, and I'm just one idiot on a message board, so that's not really worth much.

But I also recommended a very long and well-written article by someone much much smarter and much much more informed on these issues than me. It offers a lot of historical perspective about problems faced by blacks in America. I'd say the one thing everyone can and should do is be aware of those problems, which are mostly unique to blacks and are far more recent (or even current) than most people believe. Obviously there's not much we can do as individuals, but I think awareness is a good start. The fewer people we have making statements like "slavery ended 150 years ago, it's not an excuse any more" or "Jews and Irish people also faced poverty and discrimination when they came to America and they overcame it," the better. A lot of people think those things to varying degrees. I used to be one of them. But the more you read, the more ignorant those things seem. The first step to addressing any problem is understanding it.

 

[Hang 10]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

Silly?

Yeah, if the cops get charged and convicted what do the protests end up being about? Due process is a good thing, right?

 

[timschochet]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

Silly?

Yeah, if the cops get charged and convicted what do the protests end up being about? Due process is a good thing, right?

It is. But if this were an isolated incident there would be no protests.

 

[KCitons]

Yesterday I wrote a long post about the problem of saying that these issues are rooted in "lack of self-motivation" or however you want to put it, so that would be my response to the bolded. But that's just my own thoughts, and I'm just one idiot on a message board, so that's not really worth much.

But I also recommended a very long and well-written article by someone much much smarter and much much more informed on these issues than me. It offers a lot of historical perspective about problems faced by blacks in America. I'd say the one thing everyone can and should do is be aware of those problems, which are mostly unique to blacks and are far more recent (or even current) than most people believe. Obviously there's not much we can do as individuals, but I think awareness is a good start. The fewer people we have making statements like "slavery ended 150 years ago, it's not an excuse any more" or "Jews and Irish people also faced poverty and discrimination when they came to America and they overcame it," the better. A lot of people think those things to varying degrees. I used to be one of them. But the more you read, the more ignorant those things seem. The first step to addressing any problem is understanding it.

I've read about half of the long article. Have it bookmarked and need to finish it. Thanks for posting it.

 

[matttyl]

Tobias, I know posts between you and I were a bit heated yesterday, and near the end of the day posts from everyone were coming in fast and you may have missed one that I wrote. I'm honestly interested in your response and thoughts. It was post #1780 discussing top selling NFL jerseys. Likely more a symptom of a problem rather than main issue, but I hope you can see where I was going with it.

 

[Hang 10]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

Silly?

Yeah, if the cops get charged and convicted what do the protests end up being about? Due process is a good thing, right?

It is. But if this were an isolated incident there would be no protests.

We still don't even know what happened.

 

[Passenger]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Yesterday I wrote a long post about the problem of saying that these issues are rooted in "lack of self-motivation" or however you want to put it, so that would be my response to the bolded. But that's just my own thoughts, and I'm just one idiot on a message board, so that's not really worth much.

But I also recommended a very long and well-written article by someone much much smarter and much much more informed on these issues than me. It offers a lot of historical perspective about problems faced by blacks in America. I'd say the one thing everyone can and should do is be aware of those problems, which are mostly unique to blacks and are far more recent (or even current) than most people believe. Obviously there's not much we can do as individuals, but I think awareness is a good start. The fewer people we have making statements like "slavery ended 150 years ago, it's not an excuse any more" or "Jews and Irish people also faced poverty and discrimination when they came to America and they overcame it," the better. A lot of people think those things to varying degrees. I used to be one of them. But the more you read, the more ignorant those things seem. The first step to addressing any problem is understanding it.

So these protesters, the ones burning the town down, what step are they on in this process of understanding the problem? It amazes me who has to be accountable and who doesn't.

 

[tom22406]

So if the report is true about Gray trying to intentionally injure himself does this change anything for anyone?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

Rush to judgement is always a dangerous game so I will just wait for all the facts to come out before throwing anybody under the bus.I know that may sound crazy but that's how I roll.

Why was there a rush to protest/riot in the first place? The officers could still be charged and people were willing to burn their neighborhood down for what? The mere chance that the report may be true just highlights how silly the kneejerk reaction is/was.

Silly?

Yeah, if the cops get charged and convicted what do the protests end up being about? Due process is a good thing, right?

It is. But if this were an isolated incident there would be no protests.

So let's just jump ahead and say the report is true(which I still have a hard time thinking it is),what does this say now?

It just seems to me to be a rush to judgment and I won't go as far to call it silly because I think this is a real issue that needs to be dealt with but it could also turn out to be another Ferguson where the facts don't confirm the intial beliefs of many.

And for the record I am not putting protestors and looters in the same sentence,they clearly both have different agendas.

It reminds me a little of the Bundy ranch where people just showed up because they saw an opportunity to cause trouble,same thing went down in Ferguson and the same in Baltimore.

I guess that will just be the normal but it also has to be dealt with in the proper way,they(looters) are criminals.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, I know posts between you and I were a bit heated yesterday, and near the end of the day posts from everyone were coming in fast and you may have missed one that I wrote. I'm honestly interested in your response and thoughts. It was post #1780 discussing top selling NFL jerseys. Likely more a symptom of a problem rather than main issue, but I hope you can see where I was going with it.

I guess I have two thoughts. One is the same as yours, that to the extent it establishes anything it identifies a symptom, not a problem.

The second is that your summaries of the players' characters are pretty unfair. Starting with #1- you didn't even do a summary for him, but if you had it would be hard to draft one that IDs flaws in his personal/family life. He's married to his college sweetheart with a kid on the way and clearly values family. You didn't mention that Peyton Manning has faced sexual assault allegations. You seemed to give brownie points to Brady for also having children in marriage but didn't extend the same courtesy to, say, Victor Cruz for marrying the mother of his child. You mentioned all of Brees' charitable work and involvement in the community but didn't do the same for any of the black players, even though all of them do things like that to varying degrees. you also conveniently chose a list that excludes such popular players as Ben Roethlisberger (#24 in the year you chose) and Johnny Manziel (#7 last year).

I accept that on average the white players on that particular list are probably better "role models" than the non-white people- mostly because of Lewis, the rest seem like decent guys. But you definitely cherry-picked here.

 

[matttyl]

Tobias, I know posts between you and I were a bit heated yesterday, and near the end of the day posts from everyone were coming in fast and you may have missed one that I wrote. I'm honestly interested in your response and thoughts. It was post #1780 discussing top selling NFL jerseys. Likely more a symptom of a problem rather than main issue, but I hope you can see where I was going with it.

I guess I have two thoughts. One is the same as yours, that to the extent it establishes anything it identifies a symptom, not a problem.

The second is that your summaries of the players' characters are pretty unfair. Starting with #1- you didn't even do a summary for him, but if you had it would be hard to draft one that IDs flaws in his personal/family life. He's married to his college sweetheart with a kid on the way and clearly values family. You didn't mention that Peyton Manning has faced sexual assault allegations. You seemed to give brownie points to Brady for also having children in marriage but didn't extend the same courtesy to, say, Victor Cruz for marrying the mother of his child. You mentioned all of Brees' charitable work and involvement in the community but didn't do the same for any of the black players, even though all of them do things like that to varying degrees. you also conveniently chose a list that excludes such popular players as Ben Roethlisberger (#24 in the year you chose) and Johnny Manziel (#7 last year).

I accept that on average the white players on that particular list are probably better "role models" than the non-white people- mostly because of Lewis, the rest seem like decent guys. But you definitely cherry-picked here.

Maybe a bit, but I wanted to find a list from a few years ago with players who now have a little bit of history in the league. Sure Manziel isn't on the list, but we don't yet know his full NFL story - for all we know rehab will work and he'll be a better person for it. I did honestly think Big Ben would be on the list, but he wasn't. I was just going off of most popular list of that year.

Brady having children in marriage isn't the same as Cruz who married the mother of his child after the child was born. Those aren't the same things. We're having a conversation about having children out of wedlock, Cruz did just that. Brees' charity involvement can't really be rivaled by just about anyone in the league - white, black, or anything else.

Again, it's just an example of the role models available in today's society and who the younger generation has to look up to. Also, I left any synopsis of RG3 out as I didn't want my fandom to seep through - I'm a huge Skins fan but would really like RG3 to just shut up and play ball and stop worrying about his marketing image.

 

[Billy Bats]

Ray Ray is out there:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffzrebiecsun/status/593779137849987072



Hopefully he gets out into the neighborhoods as wel and talks to the residents and helps everyone involved.

 

[General Tso]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Great question, and one that well intentioned white people everywhere have been asking for years. My answer? Get out of the way. The key systemic issues have largely been resolved over the last 60 years. In my opinion the issues now are cultural in nature, and most of those need to be solved from within the black community. Like Jason Riley says to Librals, "Stop Helping Us".

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, I know posts between you and I were a bit heated yesterday, and near the end of the day posts from everyone were coming in fast and you may have missed one that I wrote. I'm honestly interested in your response and thoughts. It was post #1780 discussing top selling NFL jerseys. Likely more a symptom of a problem rather than main issue, but I hope you can see where I was going with it.

I guess I have two thoughts. One is the same as yours, that to the extent it establishes anything it identifies a symptom, not a problem.

The second is that your summaries of the players' characters are pretty unfair. Starting with #1- you didn't even do a summary for him, but if you had it would be hard to draft one that IDs flaws in his personal/family life. He's married to his college sweetheart with a kid on the way and clearly values family. You didn't mention that Peyton Manning has faced sexual assault allegations. You seemed to give brownie points to Brady for also having children in marriage but didn't extend the same courtesy to, say, Victor Cruz for marrying the mother of his child. You mentioned all of Brees' charitable work and involvement in the community but didn't do the same for any of the black players, even though all of them do things like that to varying degrees. you also conveniently chose a list that excludes such popular players as Ben Roethlisberger (#24 in the year you chose) and Johnny Manziel (#7 last year).

I accept that on average the white players on that particular list are probably better "role models" than the non-white people- mostly because of Lewis, the rest seem like decent guys. But you definitely cherry-picked here.

Maybe a bit, but I wanted to find a list from a few years ago with players who now have a little bit of history in the league. Sure Manziel isn't on the list, but we don't yet know his full NFL story - for all we know rehab will work and he'll be a better person for it. I did honestly think Big Ben would be on the list, but he wasn't. I was just going off of most popular list of that year.

Brady having children in marriage isn't the same as Cruz who married the mother of his child after the child was born. Those aren't the same things. We're having a conversation about having children out of wedlock, Cruz did just that. Brees' charity involvement can't really be rivaled by just about anyone in the league - white, black, or anything else.

Again, it's just an example of the role models available in today's society and who the younger generation has to look up to. Also, I left any synopsis of RG3 out as I didn't want my fandom to seep through - I'm a huge Skins fan but would really like RG3 to just shut up and play ball and stop worrying about his marketing image.

Correct, they are not the same. Brady had a child out of wedlock and left the mother. Cruz did it and married the mother.

This is a pretty solid example of cherry-picking.

 

[The_Man]

My inside info is that the Mayor and Governor will hold a joint noon press conference to announce that no information will be released until the state's attorney has an opportunity to review the results of the police investigation.

The rumor had been that the results would be released Friday. The reality is that the results will be turned over to the state's attorney then. Some worry that the perception of a delay in sharing the information will trigger a reaction.

Glad to see the Mayor and Governor working proactively together to try to get in front of this.

 

[humpback]

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Very reasonable question.Last night, HIllary Clinton gave a very thoughtful and nuanced speech about this subject which included a few specific proposals that might help. I posted the transcript in the Clinton thread. You want to help? Vote for her and for politicians who think like her. That's my serious answer.

JFC.

 

[matttyl]

Correct, they are not the same. Brady had a child out of wedlock and left the mother. Cruz did it and married the mother.

This is a pretty solid example of cherry-picking.

Then had two kids in wedlock. You're doing the same thing.

Again, I think we're getting bogged down in the details and maybe missing the bigger picture - roll models. Take me personally, and likely yourself if I were to guess, and likely most of the posters here - who is your biggest role mode? My answer would be my father, no question. If I were to ask myself as a child who my favorite spots figures were I would have likely said Cal Ripken (Baltimore was my "local team" before the Nats), Ken Griffey Jr. (really only because I really wanted his Upper Deck rookie card), various Redskins players from their SB teams - but none held a candle to my own father. He kept me out of trouble (for the most part), showed me what it's like to be a good member of society, motivated/forced me to finish college, and has shown me how to be a great father (which I will become for the first time in August, at age 34 with a wife of 3 years). Maybe if the father isn't around, then the next line of potential role models come up - be it from sports, music, Hollywood actors, politicians, other public figures, whoever. I picked NFL players for an example here as this is a fantasy football website.

For right or wrong, children will look to role models they can relate to - and often do so within their own race. Remember in another thread you asking me about what could be causing the high out of wedlock birthrates, lower graduation levels, higher crime rates, and other such things in some cultures and my answer was they are causing themselves? This is what I mean.

 

[Passenger]

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?

I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Very reasonable question.Last night, HIllary Clinton gave a very thoughtful and nuanced speech about this subject which included a few specific proposals that might help. I posted the transcript in the Clinton thread. You want to help? Vote for her and for politicians who think like her. That's my serious answer.

JFC.

Get advice from this guy. He gets it.

 

[TripItUp]

Cameras on policeman is a no brainer to me.

Police office oversight is a no brainer to me.

Improvement of policing procedures is a no brainer to me.

Drastically improving K-12 educational opportunity for the poor is also a no brainer to me.

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)

Legalizing Marijuana and scaling back the war on drugs is a no brainer to me.

Vote for candidates that support these idea IMHO.

 

[Hang 10]

Cameras on policeman is a no brainer to me.

Drastically improving K-12 educational opportunity for the poor is also a no brainer to me.

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)]

Vote for candidates that support these idea IMHO.

The teachers unions have blocked voucher programs and kept public schools in Baltimore ####ty.

 

[TripItUp]

Cameras on policeman is a no brainer to me.

Drastically improving K-12 educational opportunity for the poor is also a no brainer to me.

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)]

Vote for candidates that support these idea IMHO.

The teachers unions have blocked voucher programs and kept public schools in Baltimore ####ty.

don't get me started on teachers unions...

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?

I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Very reasonable question.Last night, HIllary Clinton gave a very thoughtful and nuanced speech about this subject which included a few specific proposals that might help. I posted the transcript in the Clinton thread. You want to help? Vote for her and for politicians who think like her. That's my serious answer.

JFC.

Get advice from this guy. He gets it.

 

[matttyl]

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)

Free vasectomies with a free $100 cash bonus?

 

[TripItUp]

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)

Free vasectomies with a free $100 cash bonus?

I realize this is a joke, but pretty much every form should be made available free of charge...the benefits significantly outweigh the costs and now that our society is more secularized I think there would be broad based support for the program...wouldn't even notice the cost in the Federal budget.

 

[humpback]

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)

Free vasectomies with a free $100 cash bonus?

I realize this is a joke, but pretty much every form should be made available free of charge...the benefits significantly outweigh the costs and now that our society is more secularized I think there would be broad based support for the program...wouldn't even notice the cost in the Federal budget.

I don't think it is a joke, but I strongly disagree that there would be broad based support.

 

[TripItUp]

Free birth control is a no brainer to me. (cost is significantly less than the alternative)

Free vasectomies with a free $100 cash bonus?

I realize this is a joke, but pretty much every form should be made available free of charge...the benefits significantly outweigh the costs and now that our society is more secularized I think there would be broad based support for the program...wouldn't even notice the cost in the Federal budget.

I don't think it is a joke, but I strongly disagree that there would be broad based support.

It would be interesting to see where America stands in 2015. In 1985 there wouldn't be chance.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Correct, they are not the same. Brady had a child out of wedlock and left the mother. Cruz did it and married the mother.

This is a pretty solid example of cherry-picking.

Then had two kids in wedlock. You're doing the same thing.

Again, I think we're getting bogged down in the details and maybe missing the bigger picture - roll models. Take me personally, and likely yourself if I were to guess, and likely most of the posters here - who is your biggest role mode? My answer would be my father, no question. If I were to ask myself as a child who my favorite spots figures were I would have likely said Cal Ripken (Baltimore was my "local team" before the Nats), Ken Griffey Jr. (really only because I really wanted his Upper Deck rookie card), various Redskins players from their SB teams - but none held a candle to my own father. He kept me out of trouble (for the most part), showed me what it's like to be a good member of society, motivated/forced me to finish college, and has shown me how to be a great father (which I will become for the first time in August, at age 34 with a wife of 3 years). Maybe if the father isn't around, then the next line of potential role models come up - be it from sports, music, Hollywood actors, politicians, other public figures, whoever. I picked NFL players for an example here as this is a fantasy football website.

For right or wrong, children will look to role models they can relate to - and often do so within their own race. Remember in another thread you asking me about what could be causing the high out of wedlock birthrates, lower graduation levels, higher crime rates, and other such things in some cultures and my answer was they are causing themselves? This is what I mean.

Your list basically came down to "Drew Brees is a great guy, Ray Lewis is a POS, and Cam Newton stole a laptop in college." I'm not sure there's any lesson to glean from that.

On your larger point- this whole role model argument is oversimplified nonsense. Kids look up to athletes because they're good at sports, end of story. Most of them know little about how the players conduct themselves off the field, and wouldn't much care if they did.

As for your experience and how it relates to the bigger picture- would the world be a better place if more people had two awesome parents? Sure, of course. So what? Single parenthood is a symptom of a problem, not an isolated problem. This goes back to my whole rant about the difference between demanding accountability in individuals (fine and dandy) and expecting it across large segments of the population (pointless and absurd).

 

[timschochet]

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?

I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Very reasonable question.Last night, HIllary Clinton gave a very thoughtful and nuanced speech about this subject which included a few specific proposals that might help. I posted the transcript in the Clinton thread. You want to help? Vote for her and for politicians who think like her. That's my serious answer.

JFC.

Did you read the speech?

 

[timschochet]

The white people joining these marches are the dumbest people on the streets. Their intentions are noble but they're just adding to the numbers and too naive to realize that the brownie points they are trying to earn won't and don't matter.

Yeah, people trying to have their voice heard are actually wasting their time trying to earn brownie points that won't and don't matter, and it's pretty dumb. Thanks for this perspective, person who maintained a barely-used alias on an internet message board for five years and then pulled it out to post this obvious fishing trip.

Serious question. As a middle aged white guy, what can I do to make things better? Over my lifetime, I've seen the call for more African American police officers. That has happened. I've seen the call for more African American police chiefs, mayors, governors. That's been done. I heard the call for more jobs, more education, more opportunity for African Americans. But, if you don't apply, don't study and don't have the self motivation to go after opportunity to make your life better, what can I do to help?I don't think anyone deserves to die at the hands of another person, (sans capital punishment) regardless of race or religion. As a middle aged white guy, in flyover country, how do I effect the police forces across the country? I try to raise my kids to do the right things, but I can't raise everyone's kids.

Great question, and one that well intentioned white people everywhere have been asking for years. My answer? Get out of the way. The key systemic issues have largely been resolved over the last 60 years. In my opinion the issues now are cultural in nature, and most of those need to be solved from within the black community. Like Jason Riley says to Librals, "Stop Helping Us".

Couldnt disagree more with this.