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It's interesting. I know they're not really but I think of Sam Adams as nearly Macro now.It’s only a matter of time before we get real quality macro craft beer, right?
Right especially when it seems like Sam Adams is just buying DFHI also think the intentional words of "merger" vs "acquired" is interesting. And cool for both.
Now that I think about it Sam is technically a macro brewery and I assume DFH is as well. I guess I meant more on par with what Bud, Miller, etc where they have the distro range and marketing.It's interesting. I know they're not really but I think of Sam Adams as nearly Macro now.
I also consider them a "macro" acknowledging of course they are no where near the level of Bud/Miller. These terms ("macro brewery" "craft brewery") might not have much meaning anymore. There was a time they kept changing the definition of "craft" to allow Sam Adams to keep calling itself that. I think they sell something like 5 million barrels of beer a year now and are publicly traded.It's interesting. I know they're not really but I think of Sam Adams as nearly Macro now.
Yeah I thought they found a way to stay under the limit. Maybe they’ll just move the goalpost againI also consider them a "macro" acknowledging of course they are no where near the level of Bud/Miller. These terms ("macro brewery" "craft brewery") might not have much meaning anymore. There was a time they kept changing the definition of "craft" to allow Sam Adams to keep calling itself that. I think they sell something like 5 million barrels of beer a year now and are publicly traded.
The beer geeks will probably hate this, but if it means better access or better pricing on Dogfish products, I'm all for it. I love most all of their beers I've had, but they are for the most part priced well out of my wheel-house.
Amen.if it means better access or better pricing on Dogfish products, I'm all for it. I love most all of their beers I've had, but they are for the most part priced well out of my wheel-house.
Yeah I thought Sam Adams production level was in a weird spot where they were not big enough to be a macro but too big to be a micro. Or something like that. At least their production level was way below the macros and way above all the microsYeah I thought they found a way to stay under the limit. Maybe they’ll just move the goalpost again
i wonder if we’ll start seeing more of this, especially east and west coast mergers or things like that to improve distro
DFH's brewery was the single best thing about living (briefly) in Delaware. Better than tax-free shopping, even.Big fan of DFH. I've met Sam a couple of times and my friends and I go to the Brew pub down in Delaware pretty much every summer. Hope they continue to innovate and create unique new stuff.
Cant blame the guy though. Generational money.
Sadly they are now my third favorite in Delaware. I like the breweries proper but I can’t drink the distributed stuff. And I prefer the Revelation brewery when I end up in Delaware. Much like Sam Adams, I’m happy to drink it when I have no options but i prefer to choose the rarer beer when given a choiceDFH's brewery was the single best thing about living (briefly) in Delaware. Better than tax-free shopping, even.
I'd hope that's what it means. I spend about $350/month on beer, but haven't had DFH in a long-time because of the price. $10-12 6-packs aren't too far out of line, but every beer purchase I make is measured against a $15-18 12-pack of Sierra Nevada Torpedo. That's a very difficult value to beat. Sam is there on price, but I've liked any of their beers that much. Plus, as much beer as I go through, I'm not buying 6 packs of anything. I spend enough time lugging beer into the house as it is.I also consider them a "macro" acknowledging of course they are no where near the level of Bud/Miller. These terms ("macro brewery" "craft brewery") might not have much meaning anymore. There was a time they kept changing the definition of "craft" to allow Sam Adams to keep calling itself that. I think they sell something like 5 million barrels of beer a year now and are publicly traded.
The beer geeks will probably hate this, but if it means better access or better pricing on Dogfish products, I'm all for it. I love most all of their beers I've had, but they are for the most part priced well out of my wheel-house.
What's the other one? Sixteen Mile?Sadly they are now my third favorite in Delaware. I like the breweries proper but I can’t drink the distributed stuff. And I prefer the Revelation brewery when I end up in Delaware. Much like Sam Adams, I’m happy to drink it when I have no options but i prefer to choose the rarer beer when given a choice
Lagunitas since the buyout is close as well.It's interesting. I know they're not really but I think of Sam Adams as nearly Macro now.
How so? In a good way or bad way?Folks here in DE are freaking out about it.
They're the pride of DE. Most are upset that they sold out to the big dogs and concerned the quality is going to go down. Others are concerned the office staff will be cut. All the usual merger/buyout complaints.How so? In a good way or bad way?Folks here in DE are freaking out about it.
Whichever way, what are their thoughts/concerns?
https://www.dogfish.com/blog/merging-our-longtime-friends-beer…The valuation on this makes you wonder if the bubble is bursting a little bit.
Constellation acquired Ballast Point for $1 billion in 2015. This deal reportedly values DFH at $300 million. Obviously I don't know what assets were part of these deals, but DFH is as big of a name, if not bigger, than Ballast Point was in 2015, and continues to be today. Constellation reportedly wrote-down its Ballast Point investment something like $200 million not that long ago. Maybe Calagione knew that the writing was on the wall and the valuations aren't likely to get much better than this. Gotta make the hay while the sun shines.
Still, I like that he took most of the proceeds in Boston Beer Co stock and will sit on the board. Leads me to believe that they're still very much in it for the quality of the beer, not just some sort of exit strategy.
As co-founders of Dogfish Head, the Calagione family believes so much in the future of the merged companies that we are all in, and are reinvesting nearly all of the proceeds back into the combined entity. The remaining Boston Beer stock that we retain will establish the Beer & Benevolence Foundation to support local charitable efforts that align with Dogfish Head’s off-centered mission.
I hope that's not all for you. You're talking about 8 beers a night, every night at $17.50 a 12-pack.I'd hope that's what it means. I spend about $350/month on beer, but haven't had DFH in a long-time because of the price. $10-12 6-packs aren't too far out of line, but every beer purchase I make is measured against a $15-18 12-pack of Sierra Nevada Torpedo. That's a very difficult value to beat. Sam is there on price, but I've liked any of their beers that much. Plus, as much beer as I go through, I'm not buying 6 packs of anything. I spend enough time lugging beer into the house as it is.
Hopefully, this means some competitively priced 12-packs of DFH will be widely available. Or not. I don't really care that much as long as Sierra Nevada has my back.
Boston Beer Company is all about quality. Won't happen.They're the pride of DE. Most are upset that they sold out to the big dogs and concerned the quality is going to go down. Others are concerned the office staff will be cut. All the usual merger/buyout complaints.
I don't think there's any doubt the valuations in the industry have come back to earth. But I think the Ballast Point deal is somewhat of a unicorn. They were owned by private equity and knew exactly what to do in the 18 months or so leading up to that deal, and then had extremely fortuitous timing with the buying frenzy in the market at that time. That valuation was something like 18X EBITDA. Where I live (Wisconsin), Sculpin went from a white whale beer to being readily available in my grocery store over the course of about a year prior to that sale. DFH first became available in Wisconsin about 10 years ago, but I still have to go to a crafty sort of bottle shop to find it.The valuation on this makes you wonder if the bubble is bursting a little bit.
Constellation acquired Ballast Point for $1 billion in 2015. This deal reportedly values DFH at $300 million. Obviously I don't know what assets were part of these deals, but DFH is as big of a name, if not bigger, than Ballast Point was in 2015, and continues to be today. Constellation reportedly wrote-down its Ballast Point investment something like $200 million not that long ago. Maybe Calagione knew that the writing was on the wall and the valuations aren't likely to get much better than this. Gotta make the hay while the sun shines.
Still, I like that he took most of the proceeds in Boston Beer Co stock and will sit on the board. Leads me to believe that they're still very much in it for the quality of the beer, not just some sort of exit strategy.
I remember when the local ultra-beer-nerd bar got Sculpin for the first time in like 2011-ish. I remember it was February and snowy. It was a huge deal at the time. Now you can find it pretty much anywhere.I don't think there's any doubt the valuations in the industry have come back to earth. But I think the Ballast Point deal is somewhat of a unicorn. They were owned by private equity and knew exactly what to do in the 18 months or so leading up to that deal, and then had extremely fortuitous timing with the buying frenzy in the market at that time. That valuation was something like 18X EBITDA. Where I live (Wisconsin), Sculpin went from a white whale beer to being readily available in my grocery store over the course of about a year prior to that sale. DFH first became available in Wisconsin about 10 years ago, but I still have to go to a crafty sort of bottle shop to find it.
Yeah, this was ... *calculates, double-checks, weeps silently* 15 years ago. The brewery was almost literally a hole in the wall back then. My wife and I went back once since, maybe 6-7 years ago, and I genuinely didn't recognize the place - it looked like an airport hangar compared to what I remembered.Sadly they are now my third favorite in Delaware. I like the breweries proper but I can’t drink the distributed stuff. And I prefer the Revelation brewery when I end up in Delaware. Much like Sam Adams, I’m happy to drink it when I have no options but i prefer to choose the rarer beer when given a choice
The stuff they serve at the brewery is still terrific. I'm there every summer, just less than I'm at Revelation.Yeah, this was ... *calculates, double-checks, weeps silently* 15 years ago. The brewery was almost literally a hole in the wall back then. My wife and I went back once since, maybe 6-7 years ago, and I genuinely didn't recognize the place - it looked like an airport hangar compared to what I remembered.
The beer was still fantastic, though.
But this is radically different than cashing out to Inbev isn't it? I totally get the angst over selling to Inbev.There was a similar backlash sentiment in Chicago when Goose Island sold to InBev. It actually hasn't worked out too bad in reality. 312 now has better distribution in the country and no beer snobs were drinking that anyway. The local part of Goose Island is still putting out new varieties of barrel aged stuff which are still very good and still popular. As long as the beer quality remains good and they support the local scene, very few people will stop buying because they 'sold out'.
Sounds like great people, good for them!https://www.dogfish.com/blog/merging-our-longtime-friends-beer…
They're also donating a bunch to charity.
If you haven't listened to it, I'd guess you'll like the How I Built This podcast where Koch was featured. It's really good and talks about some of the same stuff.Da Guru said:I met Jim Koch in the late 80s. Ford Motor had their annual event for the auto show at Cobo Hall in Detroit. During the black tie party Koch supplied Sam Adams beer and gave a short seminar to anyone who interested. It was "free" beer so I was in. Probably 100 people showed up and Koch spoke for about 30-40 minutes on the brewing process and how get got into the beer business. At the time he was trying to get distribution in the Metro-Detroit area.
At the time nobody had ever heard of Sam Adams beer..or really any type of craft beer. Koch was wiry, very talkative and high energy..the whole time he talked he was drinking a Sam Adams.
I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. So much respect for as he was by himself, wheeling in his own beer and icing it down for everyone. Said he was hitting 5-6 beer distributors in the next week doing the same thing everyday trying to get distribution. You have to realize Koch was doing this 7 days a week...I know he had to be a borderline alcoholic as he said he drank every day as part of the job...I mean he said he had to because everywhere he went he was promoting the product.
Since I was in sales at Ford at the time I was interested in talking to him .I talked to him for a couple of minutes after and he would have talked for an hour if I wanted. When I am talking distribution I mean he was hoping each distributor that picked Sam Adams up would hopefully sell 100 cases a month to start. Every truck that went our with Bud or Miller was selling 3-400 cases a day per truck. He was hoping for 100 a month total.
Never saw him again but was happy to see when Sam Adams starting gaining attention and now becoming what it is today. Starting from one guy pounding the pavement.
First thing i thought as wellGawain said:I hope that's not all for you. You're talking about 8 beers a night, every night at $17.50 a 12-pack.
But it's beer. I want the drunk.And no idea if he was doing this then, but he talks about how to drink a lot without getting drunk. https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/drinks/how-to/a26328/how-not-to-get-drunk/ . I have not tried this.
That’s what I was thinking, to avoid the “sellout” stigma.So are they keeping the DFH branding and just operating at a subsidiary of Sam Adams? Is calling this acquisition a "merger" just a ploy to keep the DFH customer base?