Belichick Quotes on "Running up the Score" (1 Viewer)

[Bizkiteer]

Here's the thing that I assumed anyone who ever played sports would understand:If my team is being dominated by another team, I am not going to stop playing hard. I want to go down swinging. I want to be a man and not give up. I want to show the world that although my skill level may not approach my opponent's skill level, my heart and desire to excel is equal. The LAST thing I want is for my opponent to show me "mercy" or play half speed or kneel down or whatever. I wouldn't go as far as to say I would be insulted by such action (because my opponent is showing kindness, so you can't really be mad at him), but I don't think I'd be happy about it. I come into a match for the love of the competition. That's what this is about right? Two sets of warriors taking the field. If one side dominates, it can dominate with honor. And if one side loses, it can lose with honor. While I am sure intentions may be in the right place, but "going easy" on an opponent does dishonor to both sides, really.THAT BEING SAID, it is not acceptable for a team to dominate its opponent in a dishonorable manner. For example, if a team is up by 5 scores, and then scores again I think it would be somewhat classless and distasteful to celebrate the score, or act in a disrespectful manner on the sideline or on the field. Catcalls, high fives, celabrations, or related activities that "rub a team's noses" in the domination would make me extremely angry as a competitor.

x2Said very well...

 

[PainTrain]

The question has been asked, "What difference does it make if you lose 38-0 versus 52-0?" Isn't it also fair to ask , "What difference does it make if you win 52-0 versus 38-0?" In other words, they're already dominating games on their way to victories, so does running up the score really create any more of a mystique?

Everyone who argues as you do seems to assume that it's the last 14 or whatever points that make the difference. Do they?

38 points is good. Scary good. Intimidating. 52 points is barbaric and heartless. It's insulting and shows utter disregard for professional courtesies at the expense of their opponents reputations and self-respect. It's so good it's bad. Bad enough to border on evil. It extends intimidating to the point of hopelessness, and that's what the Patriots are buying. That's what nobody has been cold enough to do, and it builds a dark mystique around a GQ pretty boy QB. In my book, it's better to have opponents take the field with a sense of hopelesness than mere intimidation.

I'm buying what they're selling, I think it's vicious. It sets them apart from the rest of the league that has a certain sense of respect for their opponents at the end of the day.

 

[wiffle_3]

The question has been asked, "What difference does it make if you lose 38-0 versus 52-0?" Isn't it also fair to ask , "What difference does it make if you win 52-0 versus 38-0?" In other words, they're already dominating games on their way to victories, so does running up the score really create any more of a mystique?

Everyone who argues as you do seems to assume that it's the last 14 or whatever points that make the difference. Do they?

38 points is good. Scary good. Intimidating. 52 points is barbaric and heartless. It's insulting and shows utter disregard for professional courtesies at the expense of their opponents reputations and self-respect. It's so good it's bad. Bad enough to border on evil. It extends intimidating to the point of hopelessness, and that's what the Patriots are buying. That's what nobody has been cold enough to do, and it builds a dark mystique around a GQ pretty boy QB. In my book, it's better to have opponents take the field with a sense of hopelesness than mere intimidation.

I'm buying what they're selling, I think it's vicious. It sets them apart from the rest of the league that has a certain sense of respect for their opponents at the end of the day.

Kinda like G'itmo?

 

[PainTrain]

Kinda like G'itmo?

:(Harsh, of questionable ethical standards, and scary enough to be effective?Yeah, that sounds about right.

 

[JamesTheScot]

The question has been asked, "What difference does it make if you lose 38-0 versus 52-0?" Isn't it also fair to ask , "What difference does it make if you win 52-0 versus 38-0?" In other words, they're already dominating games on their way to victories, so does running up the score really create any more of a mystique?

Everyone who argues as you do seems to assume that it's the last 14 or whatever points that make the difference. Do they?

38 points is good. Scary good. Intimidating. 52 points is barbaric and heartless. It's insulting and shows utter disregard for professional courtesies at the expense of their opponents reputations and self-respect. It's so good it's bad. Bad enough to border on evil. It extends intimidating to the point of hopelessness, and that's what the Patriots are buying. That's what nobody has been cold enough to do, and it builds a dark mystique around a GQ pretty boy QB. In my book, it's better to have opponents take the field with a sense of hopelesness than mere intimidation.

I'm buying what they're selling, I think it's vicious. It sets them apart from the rest of the league that has a certain sense of respect for their opponents at the end of the day.

Kinda like G'itmo?

naw, more like spending a minute or two slicing the head off a civilian contractor. :(

 

[redman]

Maybe those wishing to send a message to Belichick should take it up with him directly, you know, like a man.

I just came across this, which makes it appear that Randall Godfrey did what you suggested:

Michael Felger reports on an onfield exchange after the Pats-Skins game:

In the minutes following the final whistle, and after a lightning-quick handshake with Washington coach Joe Gibbs, Belichick was confronted by Redskins linebacker Randall Godfrey near midfield. According to NBCSports.com, Godfrey delivered a quick message to the Pats coach.

"You need to show some respect for the game," said Godfrey.

Later, Godfrey told the Web site, "You've got to show some class, show some respect. Joe Gibbs? We wouldn't have done that. Bill Walsh? You wouldn't see those types of guys doing that stuff. I've never seen nothing like that. This is the pros. You show some respect. You show some class."

Link

 

[Sweat Hog]

There are two separate arguments here:1. Are the Patriots showing poor sportsmanship by either running up the score or leaving their players in too long? This is a legitimitate issue to discuss; you can agree or disagree with it based upon your opinion.2. Should other teams or players retaliate by attempting to injure Tom Brady or other Patriots? This is NOT a legitimate issue; those people that are suggesting it should stop right now. Patriot fans, you don't need to argue against this line of thinking; it is benaeth you and all of us to have to do so.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone intentionally injure anyone. Just that the possibility of injury exists.An illegal hit that causes an injury to Tom Brady falls 100% on the player that made the hit. A legal play in which Tom Brady gets injured falls 100% on Belichick for leaving him in the ballgame when it's out of reach.

If, If, If... If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle.All players risk injury every down they are on the field. IF Brady gets hurt, yes there will be PLENTY of second guessing Billy boy. But there is second guessing after every game in every sport so deal with it. Brady and the Pats are chasing immortality and all you whiners want to do is bring them down. Let them try to achieve things that have never been done before and if they succeed, show them the respect they deserve.Manning was obviously padding his stats in his TD record chase but he didn't get nearly the grief I see in here. Sit back and watch history guys.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Last time I checked...Godfrey does not post on this board.Im talking about people in this thread and in others and on other boards.The overwhelming opinion is that what BB is doing is not needed, and he is putting his players at risk in doing so.Its common sense.

I agree with that opinion to some extent. But you're blind if you've been missing all the "BB is classless" posts in this and other threads. Seems like the majority of the posts since your last concern the sportsmanship issue, not the "for the safety of Brady's knee" issue.I'd pull Brady, Moss and company early in the 4th if I had the chance because its' better for my team that way. I'd also love the chance to get my backups some PT in real-game situations at real-speed.But I wouldn't do it to save face for the other team. I'm not going to gloat about how many points we put up after the game. I'm not going to talk trash. I'm going to shake hands with my opponent win or lose. If they want to call it a game, fine. I see no disrespect in that, wouldn't think less of them for doing so, and would be happy to oblige. If they want to pull their starters, I'll do the same but I'm going to have my subs give 100% and call the game the same way as I did with my starters. I'd want their subs to do the same.If an adult man's self-esteem is so cheap so as to be purchased for 14 fourth quarter points, he's got it over-priced to begin with.

 

[falconeyed]

Anyone still want to disagree that sooner or later someone is going to try and waste Brady with the big blitz?

This is what I think. One of these games, someone is going to bring the house on Brady late in the game and blast him. Blitz 8 drop 3, what does it matter. Someone is going to send the message, if you want to pass late we are going to make your qb pay.

The way Brady is playing, he'll have the ball out instantly to the exact correct receiver and the defense will be nowhere near him. If the defenders choose to play dirty, then that's something different. This is the NFL. If you don't want to get scored on, play defense.

 

[Judge Smails]

I just don't understand the vitriol about the Pats running up the score. Everyone is paid an enormous amount of money in this league to field competitive teams. They all have the same salary cap and contractual rules to play by. They all have the right to call plays and live with the consequences. Why shouldn't the Pats continue to play this way if no one can stop them? Why shouldn't they want to smash NFL records on their way to a Super Bowl run? Why is it wrong that Belichick wants to see Brady break the single season passing marks? Love or hate Belichick, he is absolutely right in what he says. When an opponent comes over and says, "OK Bill, you got us this time, let's call it a game" then Bill can tell the Pats to start taking a knee. For a sport that's as popular as it is because of the perceived toughness of those involved, I'm shocked at how many whiny fans have a problem with what the Pats are doing. I just don't get it

So Woody, in your opinion, it's perfectly fine for baseball teams up 10 runs in the top of the 9th inning to be stealing? Or doing a full court press up 40 in the second half in the NBA? I mean, the pitchers are trying to still get you out and everything. So stealing bases in that situation is perfectly fine? Throwing deep with 40 point leads in the 4th quarter is EXACTLY the same as stealing bases with a 10 run lead in the 9th inning. You were right about one thing. The do have the right to call plays and live with the consequences. Just don't whine about the consequences that comes with the almost certain retribution when you show up the other team.

 

[KoolKat]

Let's get one thing straight. I am not upset that there was no "mercy" shown to Redskins. I am also not upset at the amount of points the Pats scored. I am upset that they would throw it deep and go for it twice on fourth down in punting territory with a 30+ point lead in the second half. I cannot recall any pro team doing this in the history of the league. This isn't Madden, sportsmanship is much more important than statistics.

 

[RudeDog]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.

1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins

1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions

1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears

1957 Lions 59 - 14 over Browns

There have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.

Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

 

[KoolKat]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears1957 Lions 59 - 14 over BrownsThere have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

As I stated before, the score is not what bothers me. I mean the Broncos lost a Super Bowl 55-10, and you don't hear me saying they ran the score up becaue they didn't. Unless you can find me a game account that says the teams in said championship games were throwing deep and going for it on 4th down while up by 30 +, I stand by what I said.

 

[Christo]

Here's the thing that I assumed anyone who ever played sports would understand:If my team is being dominated by another team, I am not going to stop playing hard. I want to go down swinging. I want to be a man and not give up. I want to show the world that although my skill level may not approach my opponent's skill level, my heart and desire to excel is equal. The LAST thing I want is for my opponent to show me "mercy" or play half speed or kneel down or whatever. I wouldn't go as far as to say I would be insulted by such action (because my opponent is showing kindness, so you can't really be mad at him), but I don't think I'd be happy about it. I come into a match for the love of the competition. That's what this is about right? Two sets of warriors taking the field. If one side dominates, it can dominate with honor. And if one side loses, it can lose with honor. While I am sure intentions may be in the right place, but "going easy" on an opponent does dishonor to both sides, really.

Anyone else picturing Luke getting his butt whipped by Dragline?While fighting the good fight can sometimes be laudable, there are instances where continuing to fight against all odds reveals a serious mental/emotional defect.

 

[SteelerMurf]

I gurantee if they keep running the score up, someone major will get majorly injured on the pats. IE Brady, Moss, Welker or whatever...

Indy has some guys with a mean streak (Sanders for one) then you have Baltimore's bad mo fo's and Pitt's too!!!!It will stop.

 

[Tanner9919]

I know we already have like 5 Patriots/Belichick/Classless posts on the first 2 pages of the board but here you can read the quotes directly from his mouth:

October 28th, 2007

Running up the score ruminations

Tom Curran of NBCSports.com has some interesting comments from Redskins linebacker Randall Godfrey, who’s none too pleased with the way Bill Belichick coached at the end of today’s 52-7 victory. The Patriots went for it on a pair of fourth downs when up 35 and then 42 points.

“You look at all the great head coaches…I’m just disappointed,” Godfrey said. “You’ve got to show some class, show some respect. Joe Gibbs? We wouldn’t have done that. Bill Walsh? You wouldn’t see those types of guys doing that stuff. I’ve never seen nothing like that. Most teams, you get up like that you sit on the ball and try to run the time out. They’re up 30-some points and they’re throwing deep. That was blatant disrespect. I hope we can see them again, definitely. You don’t see Joe Gibbs doing that. You can’t even imagine that kind of stuff coming from him. Joe Gibbs. Bill Walsh. Bill Parcells. This isn’t like college going for power rankings. This is the pros — you show some respect, show some class.”

NBC also had some exclusive

quotes from Belichick on the subject on Friday (before the WAS game).

“I’ve been coaching too long,” Belichick said. “I remember being on that side. When I was coaching defense it was my job to keep the score down, not theirs. When you’re playing defense it’s your job to stop them. It’s not (the offense’s) job to not score. It’s like I tell the offense, what the (bleep) do you think I send you guys out there for? To punt? We have a punt team for that. That’s not your job. Your job is to go out there and score points. If you come off the field and you haven’t scored points you haven’t done your job.”

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.Walsh never ran up the score on anyone??!?! he SMOKED Denver 55-10 in a SB..

Parcells BURIED SF 42-0 in a playoff game in Giants Stadium. Fassell did the same to the Vikings in a playoff game at Giants Stadium..

Ditka ran up the score on the Patriots in the SB, 46-10..

Boston ran up the score a few times on Colorado and Cleveland this postseason, are they supposed to stop hitting when they're up 12-2?

its TOTAL BS that 'gentlemanly' coaches don't run up the score..

Why is it that we love to see blowouts in college football, ala Steve Spurrier, but we think its unethical and poor sportsmanship to do it in the pros?!? At least they are paid adults/grown men, not a bunch of 19-20 yr old youngsters like they are in college...

 

[redman]

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.

35 of which was scored before halftime, and they ran the ball the entire second half. If you go back and watch replays of that game, it's clear that they could have scored 90 points given how much that Denver secondary was outclassed. The final score doesn't tell all or even most of the story in many of the examples you cited. It's how that score was arrived at.

 

[David Dodds]

People seem to not want to look at other sports, where "unwritten" rules exist regarding sportsmanship, but I think we are kidding ourselves to not see what will likely happen here.

In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.

In hockey, teams that are running up the score in a blowout, see the opposing teams goons come in and check the star players the rest of the game.

In Nascar a driver being a jerk sees his car getting bumped a lot the next race

In football, you are expected to play all out for three quarters regardless of the score. When you are up by a lot in the 4th though, the "unwritten" rule is that subs come in and play. The winning team will still try and get first downs (running out the clock, etc). We can all close our eyes, but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line. It's not against the real rules, but it is going out of your way to humilate the other team. Sure it's on the defense to stop them. And it's pretty obvious defenses can't stop the mighty Patriots.

But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year.

If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out.

No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

 

[The Jerk]

But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year. If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out. No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

For some reason, I'll bet there are fewer "hater" and "this isn't kindergarten" responses to this quote.

 

[Jason Wood]

People seem to not want to look at other sports, where "unwritten" rules exist regarding sportsmanship, but I think we are kidding ourselves to not see what will likely happen here.In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.In hockey, teams that are running up the score in a blowout, see the opposing teams goons come in and check the star players the rest of the game.In Nascar a driver being a jerk sees his car getting bumped a lot the next raceIn football, you are expected to play all out for three quarters regardless of the score. When you are up by a lot in the 4th though, the "unwritten" rule is that subs come in and play. The winning team will still try and get first downs (running out the clock, etc). We can all close our eyes, but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line. It's not against the real rules, but it is going out of your way to humilate the other team. Sure it's on the defense to stop them. And it's pretty obvious defenses can't stop the mighty Patriots.But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year. If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out. No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

This presumes that opposing defensive backs aren't ALWAYS trying to knock the heads off receivers they hit? Or that opposing defensive ends aren't trying to physically demolish the opposing QB when they have an open lane on them from the blindside? The NFL is a violent game, and if anything the league has been criticized for continually adding rules that try to protect offensive players from injury. I don't think Dwight Freeney needs added incentive to get after the Pats offensive players. I certainly don't think Eric Mangini or Cam Cameron or their players needed extra cause to try to make their mark against their division rivals when they play again later in the season. But what really gets me is the Pats haters are now resorting to this argument: Belichick is putting his own players at risk by his play-calling. OK, so that's HIS cross to bear. Why would anyone that hates Belichick and the Patriots really care if this puts a bigger bullseye on their heads? Shouldn't this be something Tom Brady and Randy Moss concern themselves with?

 

[zoonation]

“I’ve been coaching too long,” Belichick said. “I remember being on that side. When I was coaching defense it was my job to keep the score down, not theirs. When you’re playing defense it’s your job to stop them. It’s not (the offense’s) job to not score. It’s like I tell the offense, what the (bleep) do you think I send you guys out there for? To punt? We have a punt team for that. That’s not your job. Your job is to go out there and score points. If you come off the field and you haven’t scored points you haven’t done your job.”

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[the moops]

Anyone still want to disagree that sooner or later someone is going to try and waste Brady with the big blitz?

This is what I think. One of these games, someone is going to bring the house on Brady late in the game and blast him. Blitz 8 drop 3, what does it matter. Someone is going to send the message, if you want to pass late we are going to make your qb pay.

Good luck. You blitz 8, he throws a TD to Moss or Welker.

 

[the moops]

It's been said before...but shouldn't the losing team concede first? You dont see the other teams 3rd stringers come in.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears1957 Lions 59 - 14 over BrownsThere have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

As I stated before, the score is not what bothers me. I mean the Broncos lost a Super Bowl 55-10, and you don't hear me saying they ran the score up becaue they didn't. Unless you can find me a game account that says the teams in said championship games were throwing deep and going for it on 4th down while up by 30 +, I stand by what I said.

In the November 9th game during Miami's undefeated season, they defeated the Patriots 52-0 and scored two touchdowns on passes over 30 yards (one was over 45 yards) in the last ten minutes of the game.

 

[The Jerk]

But what really gets me is the Pats haters are now resorting to this argument: Belichick is putting his own players at risk by his play-calling. OK, so that's HIS cross to bear. Why would anyone that hates Belichick and the Patriots really care if this puts a bigger bullseye on their heads? Shouldn't this be something Tom Brady and Randy Moss concern themselves with?

Good job circumventing my comment on "hater" responses, although I think it will be overturned on a technicality. However, I noticed you weren't nearly as quick to criticize David's invoking of sportsmanship as you were mine earlier today. Coincidence?

 

[KoolKat]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears1957 Lions 59 - 14 over BrownsThere have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

As I stated before, the score is not what bothers me. I mean the Broncos lost a Super Bowl 55-10, and you don't hear me saying they ran the score up becaue they didn't. Unless you can find me a game account that says the teams in said championship games were throwing deep and going for it on 4th down while up by 30 +, I stand by what I said.

In the November 9th game during Miami's undefeated season, they defeated the Patriots 52-0 and scored two touchdowns on passes over 30 yards (one was over 45 yards) in the last ten minutes of the game.

I stand corrected. But it still does not make it right.

 

[mad sweeney]

People seem to not want to look at other sports, where "unwritten" rules exist regarding sportsmanship, but I think we are kidding ourselves to not see what will likely happen here.In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.In hockey, teams that are running up the score in a blowout, see the opposing teams goons come in and check the star players the rest of the game.In Nascar a driver being a jerk sees his car getting bumped a lot the next raceIn football, you are expected to play all out for three quarters regardless of the score. When you are up by a lot in the 4th though, the "unwritten" rule is that subs come in and play. The winning team will still try and get first downs (running out the clock, etc). We can all close our eyes, but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line. It's not against the real rules, but it is going out of your way to humilate the other team. Sure it's on the defense to stop them. And it's pretty obvious defenses can't stop the mighty Patriots.But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year. If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out. No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

This presumes that opposing defensive backs aren't ALWAYS trying to knock the heads off receivers they hit? Or that opposing defensive ends aren't trying to physically demolish the opposing QB when they have an open lane on them from the blindside?

They are trying all the time, but they also will lay off a lot when they could take the shot. Guys will start taking shots at people when they are 2 steps away instead of one. Instead of leeting the guy step out of bounds, they'll lower the shoulder. When the team lines up for a real spike, the DL will pop the OL and try to take Brady out as if he's passing the ball. And he's only taking one step away from them. They'll pile on more and put the extra oomph on every hit. There will be no respite from opposing defenses, even on a kneel down.

 

[redman]

 

[Dickie Dunn]

but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line.

Just for the record, both fake spike plays run by Brady the last two weeks came in the waning moments of the first half.

In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.

I've seen a lot of references to this in various posts, but in my opinion, it's not really a valid argument. If the Pats were throwing flea-flickers, running the Statue of Liberty (someone referenced Boise State earlier), and yes, calling fake spikes in the fourth quarter, that would be a different story altogether.But the Patriots are doing nothing more than running their normal offense. They go for it on fourth down all over the field. They like to quarterback sneak. They pass the ball to move the chains.

In baseball, even when a team is up by 10 runs in the ninth inning, no manager worth his salt is telling his backup players to hit ground balls to shortstop (run into the line) or strike out intentionally (take a knee on fourth down with time left on the clock).

 

[mad sweeney]

but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line.

Just for the record, both fake spike plays run by Brady the last two weeks came in the waning moments of the first half.

In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.

I've seen a lot of references to this in various posts, but in my opinion, it's not really a valid argument. If the Pats were throwing flea-flickers, running the Statue of Liberty (someone referenced Boise State earlier), and yes, calling fake spikes in the fourth quarter, that would be a different story altogether.

yeah, they're only calling them when they're up by 30+ points.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

yeah, they're only calling them when they're up by 30+ points.

Again, which part of "first half" do you not understand? Pretty much everyone has acknowledged that anything is fair game before halftime.But for the record ... Pats 35, Dolphins 7 (= 28)Pats 17, Redskins 0 (= 17)I'm just here to help.

 

[mad sweeney]

yeah, they're only calling them when they're up by 30+ points.

Again, which part of "first half" do you not understand? Pretty much everyone has acknowledged that anything is fair game before halftime.But for the record ... Pats 35, Dolphins 7 (= 28)Pats 17, Redskins 0 (= 17)I'm just here to help.

Again? I don't remember you asking the first time. But for the record I was just being a little sarcastic.I don't have a problem with the fake spikes other than that when they line up to spike it for real, all the DL and LBs are going to crash the OL and try to pop Brady now instead of being lackadaisical about it.

 

[PatsWillWin]

 

[FantasyTrader]

lol - the Patriots are the first team to ever run up the score in the NFL.lol.

In all my years of watching football I have never seen this done, even when the Rams were scoring 60+ in '99 they never went for it on fourth while up 30+. It is an unwritten rule. Even if they were at the 32 yard line, I would expect most coaches would take a delay of game and try and pin the other team deep while up by that much. Many of you can act like this is something that has always gone on or was unavoidable, but it never has happened, ever.

Actually, I remember a game where Wilkins was injured and the Rams had to go for two-pt. conversions all game. Even up by over 30+ pts if I recall they KEPT scoring 2-pt. conversions. At that point, how do you not just send you punter out there to try for the PAT. WIsh I remember when that game was so I could pull up the summary.

 

[Judge Smails]

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.

35 of which was scored before halftime, and they ran the ball the entire second half. If you go back and watch replays of that game, it's clear that they could have scored 90 points given how much that Denver secondary was outclassed. The final score doesn't tell all or even most of the story in many of the examples you cited. It's how that score was arrived at.

I was at this game. Sat next to the Miller Lite Crew and Dr. J and his wife in San Diego. Elway dropped back and threw an 80 yard TD on the first play of the game. Doug Williams and Timmie Smith lit them up after that. 35 at halftime - 42 for the game. So they scored exactly 7 points in the 2nd half. And somehow, they still somehow managed to win....You can't tell the tone of the game by looking in record books for scores. Maybe the defense had 3 TD's in the 4th quarter. Maybe the 2nd team offense ran the ball in twice. That's different than having your starting QB throw bombs and doing QB sneaks up 40 in the 4th quarter

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears1957 Lions 59 - 14 over BrownsThere have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

As I stated before, the score is not what bothers me. I mean the Broncos lost a Super Bowl 55-10, and you don't hear me saying they ran the score up becaue they didn't. Unless you can find me a game account that says the teams in said championship games were throwing deep and going for it on 4th down while up by 30 +, I stand by what I said.

In the November 9th game during Miami's undefeated season, they defeated the Patriots 52-0 and scored two touchdowns on passes over 30 yards (one was over 45 yards) in the last ten minutes of the game.

I stand corrected. But it still does not make it right.

The record-setting 1998 vikings scored 24 points in the fourth quarter vs. Jacksonville, when they were already up 26-3. 17 points were on offense. Jax scored at the very end to cut it to 50-10.

 

[ChrisHenrysDD]

You know what would be awesome? If Belicheck just decided to punt the ball into the upper deck from his opponents 7 yard-line the next time he's in a situation where he's going to get criticized for running up the score. I would be laughing my ### off.

Of course, this assumes Belicheck has a sense of humor.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

yeah, they're only calling them when they're up by 30+ points.

Again, which part of "first half" do you not understand? Pretty much everyone has acknowledged that anything is fair game before halftime.But for the record ... Pats 35, Dolphins 7 (= 28)Pats 17, Redskins 0 (= 17)I'm just here to help.

Again? I don't remember you asking the first time. But for the record I was just being a little sarcastic.I don't have a problem with the fake spikes other than that when they line up to spike it for real, all the DL and LBs are going to crash the OL and try to pop Brady now instead of being lackadaisical about it.

I mentioned the "first half" part in my reply to Dodds. No harm, no foul.It's curious, though, that Vrabel was being branded a dirty player by Cleveland for playing all-out on a spike play.

 

[Judge Smails]

People seem to not want to look at other sports, where "unwritten" rules exist regarding sportsmanship, but I think we are kidding ourselves to not see what will likely happen here.In baseball, teams that are stealing bases with huge leads see pitches at the head of their star players.In hockey, teams that are running up the score in a blowout, see the opposing teams goons come in and check the star players the rest of the game.In Nascar a driver being a jerk sees his car getting bumped a lot the next raceIn football, you are expected to play all out for three quarters regardless of the score. When you are up by a lot in the 4th though, the "unwritten" rule is that subs come in and play. The winning team will still try and get first downs (running out the clock, etc). We can all close our eyes, but going for it on 4th down, keeping Brady/Moss, etc in late, fake spike plays, etc is crossing that line. It's not against the real rules, but it is going out of your way to humilate the other team. Sure it's on the defense to stop them. And it's pretty obvious defenses can't stop the mighty Patriots.But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year. If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out. No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

This is the spot on answer. Dodd's post should be pinned and required reading for anybody thinking about posting in the 232 Patriot threads. I was trying to express the same exact sentiment, but of course wasn't as eloquent as DD. If people don't "get it" after reading this. They never will. Time to move on.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.

35 of which was scored before halftime, and they ran the ball the entire second half. If you go back and watch replays of that game, it's clear that they could have scored 90 points given how much that Denver secondary was outclassed. The final score doesn't tell all or even most of the story in many of the examples you cited. It's how that score was arrived at.

I was at this game. Sat next to the Miller Lite Crew and Dr. J and his wife in San Diego. Elway dropped back and threw an 80 yard TD on the first play of the game. Doug Williams and Timmie Smith lit them up after that. 35 at halftime - 42 for the game. So they scored exactly 7 points in the 2nd half. And somehow, they still somehow managed to win....You can't tell the tone of the game by looking in record books for scores. Maybe the defense had 3 TD's in the 4th quarter. Maybe the 2nd team offense ran the ball in twice. That's different than having your starting QB throw bombs and doing QB sneaks up 40 in the 4th quarter

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...7&week=REG8

What was so objectionable about this?

Was it the third-string QB taking a knee in the last Pats drive of the game?

Was it the third-string QB leading a 3-and-out in the second-to-last Pats drive of the game?

Was it WAS going for a meaningless onside kick after scoring 12:00 into the fourth quarter? Nope I guess not because Joe Gibbs is above reproach.

Was it the Pats' third-to-last possession starting with 8:30 left, in which they pulled their starting QB, first- and second-string RB's, and possibly their top 2 WR's (Moss & Welker weren't targeted from this point; not sure if they were playing)?

I'm guessing the gripe is about the Pats' fourth-to-last possession, which began with 2:00 left in the third quarter, and involved most of the Patriots' starters (Maroney seems to have been pulled midway). In that drive, the Pats went for it on 4th and 1, on the Washington 7. I'm not sure what other options they had. Kicking a FG would have been running up the score, so that's no good. Running for it is no good, since that's what they did and it was disconcerting to decent folk all across the country. What should they have done? Take a knee with 11:00 remaining? Or maybe they should have punted?

 

[Judge Smails]

Funny stuff guys. Here are some NFL Championship games scores from the past for those of you who think class was something that existed in the past and is now dead.

1940 Bears 73 - 0 over Redskins

1954 Browns 56 - 10 over Lions

1956 Giants 47 - 7 over Bears

1957 Lions 59 - 14 over Browns

There have also been a couple Super Bowls that have been real blowouts. Point is, if it's a team you like it's fun to watch them stomp some hapless opponent, but if it's a team you don't like, you'll be complaining about classlessness.

Maybe some of these DCs should start coming up with a plan to stop the Pats. It can be done, no system is perfect, and this is a system, nothing else.

As I stated before, the score is not what bothers me. I mean the Broncos lost a Super Bowl 55-10, and you don't hear me saying they ran the score up becaue they didn't. Unless you can find me a game account that says the teams in said championship games were throwing deep and going for it on 4th down while up by 30 +, I stand by what I said.

In the November 9th game during Miami's undefeated season, they defeated the Patriots 52-0 and scored two touchdowns on passes over 30 yards (one was over 45 yards) in the last ten minutes of the game.

I stand corrected. But it still does not make it right.

The record-setting 1998 vikings scored 24 points in the fourth quarter vs. Jacksonville, when they were already up 26-3. 17 points were on offense. Jax scored at the very end to cut it to 50-10.

Dude, know what you are talking about before you post. 1st TD in the 4th quarter came on a pass from Brad Johnson (who had replaced the starter, Randall Cunningham because it was a blowout). 2nd TD came on an INT return. Last TD came on a 1 yard run by a backup RB after another turnover that went to the 1 yard line. Not even remotely close to how the NE game went down yesterday.Box Score: Jacksonville Jaguars at Minnesota Vikings

Posted: Mon December 21, 1998 at 12:09 a.m EST

NFL FINAL 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH TOTAL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JACKSONVILLE 0 3 0 7 10

MINNESOTA 3 9 14 24 50 FINAL

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SCORING SUMMARY

1ST QUARTER: MIN - FG, GARY ANDERSON 48 YD, 6:29. Drive: 10 plays, 43

yards in 4:04. Key plays: Cunningham 10-yard

pass to Hatchette on 3rd-and-6 to Minnesota 41.

Cunningham 22-yard run on 3rd-and-8 to

Jacksonville 35. MINNESOTA 3-0

2ND QUARTER: MIN - FG, GARY ANDERSON 53 YD, 9:59. Drive: 6 plays, 14

yards in 2:49. Key plays: Cunningham 10-yard

pass to Moss to Jacksonville 37. MINNESOTA 6-0

MIN - TD, ANDREW GLOVER 13 YD PASS FROM RANDALL

CUNNINGHAM (TWO-POINT CONVERSION FAILED),

13:08. Drive: 5 plays, 48 yards in 1:49. Key

plays: R Smith 22-yard run to Jacksonville 26;

R Smith 9-yard run to Jacksonville 17.

MINNESOTA 12-0

JAC - FG, MIKE HOLLIS 25 YD, 15:00. Drive: 10 plays, 73

yards in 1:52. Key plays: Taylor 12-yard run to

Jacksonville 34; Quinn 9-yard pass to J Smith

to Jacksonville 43; 38-yard pass interference

on Vikings' McDonald at Minnesota 14. MINNESOTA

12-3

3RD QUARTER: MIN - TD, RANDY MOSS 43 YD PASS FROM RANDALL CUNNINGHAM

(GARY ANDERSON KICK), 1:03. Drive: 2 plays, 69

yards in 1:03. Key plays: Cunningham 26-yard

pass to Glover to Jacksonville 43. MINNESOTA

19-3

MIN - TD, ANDREW GLOVER 14 YD PASS FROM RANDALL

CUNNINGHAM (GARY ANDERSON KICK), 11:05. Drive:

11 plays, 82 yards in 5:13. Key plays:

Cunningham 19-yard pass to Moss to Minnesota

41; Cunningham 9-yard pass to Evans to

midfield; Cunningham 12-yard pass to Hachette

to Jacksonville 17. MINNESOTA 26-3

4TH QUARTER: MIN - TD, CRIS CARTER 1 YD PASS FROM BRAD JOHNSON (GARY

ANDERSON KICK), 2:22. Drive: 10 plays, 67 yards

in 4:36. Key plays: Johnson 12-yard pass to

Carter to Minnesota 45; Johnson 17-yard pass to

Hoard to Jacksonville 36; Hoard 4-yard run plus

15-yard facemask penalty on Jaguars' Hardy to

Jacksonville 14. MINNESOTA 33-3

MIN - FG, GARY ANDERSON 44 YD, 7:14. Drive: 7 plays, 18

yards in 2:50. Key plays: Fisk recovery of

Quinn fumble at Jacksonville 44; Hoard 15-yard

run on 3rd-and-1 to Jacksonville 20. MINNESOTA

36-3

MIN - TD, JIMMY HITCHCOCK 30 YD INTERCEPTION RETURN (GARY

ANDERSON KICK), 7:35. MINNESOTA 43-3

MIN - TD, CHARLES EVANS 1 YD RUN (GARY ANDERSON KICK),

8:02. Drive: 1 play, 1 yard in 0:05. Key plays:

Houston 14-yard return of Taylor fumble to

Jacksonville 1. MINNESOTA 50-3

JAC - TD, PETE MITCHELL 1 YD PASS FROM JONATHAN QUINN

(MIKE HOLLIS KICK), 12:04. Drive: 9 plays, 80

yards in 4:02. Key plays: Quinn 7-yard run on

3rd-and-6 to Jacksonville 31; Taylor 17-yard

run to Jacksonville 48; 41 yard pass

interference penalty on Vikings Banks at

Minnesota 11; Quinn 8-yard run on 3rd-and-8 to

Minnesota 1. MINNESOTA 50-10

 

[Judge Smails]

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.

35 of which was scored before halftime, and they ran the ball the entire second half. If you go back and watch replays of that game, it's clear that they could have scored 90 points given how much that Denver secondary was outclassed. The final score doesn't tell all or even most of the story in many of the examples you cited. It's how that score was arrived at.

I was at this game. Sat next to the Miller Lite Crew and Dr. J and his wife in San Diego. Elway dropped back and threw an 80 yard TD on the first play of the game. Doug Williams and Timmie Smith lit them up after that. 35 at halftime - 42 for the game. So they scored exactly 7 points in the 2nd half. And somehow, they still somehow managed to win....You can't tell the tone of the game by looking in record books for scores. Maybe the defense had 3 TD's in the 4th quarter. Maybe the 2nd team offense ran the ball in twice. That's different than having your starting QB throw bombs and doing QB sneaks up 40 in the 4th quarter

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...7&week=REG8

What was so objectionable about this?

Was it the third-string QB taking a knee in the last Pats drive of the game?

Was it the third-string QB leading a 3-and-out in the second-to-last Pats drive of the game?

Was it WAS going for a meaningless onside kick after scoring 12:00 into the fourth quarter? Nope I guess not because Joe Gibbs is above reproach.

Was it the Pats' third-to-last possession starting with 8:30 left, in which they pulled their starting QB, first- and second-string RB's, and possibly their top 2 WR's (Moss & Welker weren't targeted from this point; not sure if they were playing)?

I'm guessing the gripe is about the Pats' fourth-to-last possession, which began with 2:00 left in the third quarter, and involved most of the Patriots' starters (Maroney seems to have been pulled midway). In that drive, the Pats went for it on 4th and 1, on the Washington 7. I'm not sure what other options they had. Kicking a FG would have been running up the score, so that's no good. Running for it is no good, since that's what they did and it was disconcerting to decent folk all across the country. What should they have done? Take a knee with 11:00 remaining? Or maybe they should have punted?

Here are the facts.The Patriots up 38-0 to start the 4th quarter, had their starting QB throw 4 out of the next 6 plays from the shotgun. The first to Welker. The next to Stallworth. And finally, the 35 yarder to Moss. They were ALL in the game until the 8:30 mark when Casell came in. That my friend, is the definition of bush league.

 

[spacevan]

I GUARANTEE you there is now a bounty on Brady's knee. I also GUARANTEE you that 20 -30 players, and that number is growing, that play defense have chipped in 10 grand a piece and whoever gets the knee gets enough money to cover the fine and whatever is left. My money is on Suggs, Monday Night Football, week 13. Go ahead tell me I'm wrong but be sure to quote me when it happens.

 

[mdog1967]

I GUARANTEE you there is now a bounty on Brady's knee. I also GUARANTEE you that 20 -30 players, and that number is growing, that play defense have chipped in 10 grand a piece and whoever gets the knee gets enough money to cover the fine and whatever is left. My money is on Suggs, Monday Night Football, week 13. Go ahead tell me I'm wrong but be sure to quote me when it happens.

Then those are very immature and reprehensible players. Small minded. DD's post was a joke and lame attmept at trying to justify again the complete envy that too many people are heaping on the Pats. As far as the baseball head hunting, well thats all fine and dandy until all hell breaks loose and the dugout comes out and smacks the ######ed pitcher in the head killing the poor guy. Or maybe its good sportsmansip to throw a 90 mile an hour fast ball at a dudes head, thats why Baseball players look like their dead, they are bored and the only time they get up is when a pitcher cant controll his balls. Quit with the ####### baseball. Football aint Baseball where you stand around for half the time and sit for the other. Its not a sport its just a dying past time. The defense is always trying to kill the damn QB and take cheap shots. God help the poor MF that lays one cheap shot hand on Brady, his team aint a bunch of pansy butt chicks who will sit around like the Texans did this last week when QB got flanked. Suggs knows better, and the Pats are going to make an example of his lil team too.

 

[The Jerk]

Then those are very immature and reprehensible players. Small minded. DD's post was a joke and lame attmept at trying to justify again the complete envy that too many people are heaping on the Pats.

These are the kind of crap comments that need to stop.One of the main reasons that the Patriot fans on these forums are being criticized is because of the mindset that any comment that can possibly be construed as not entirely positive about New England, their players, or their coach, is motivated by envy or jealousy.Couple that with the inability of virtually any Patriot supporter to be critical of their team (or at least accept others viewpoints as valid) and you solidify the opinion of Patriot fans as intolerable winners and ungracious losers (as in the officials and mistakes cost us in Denver, and the Patriot flu cost us in Indy).I think it's a fair assumption that some people are jealous, but it shows myopic provinciality to assume that all fans of other teams are full of envy. There remain at least a handful of teams with distinctly more glorious histories than the Patriots. At the very least, it may be instructive to note that the NFL did not start in 2001.

 

[Sweet J]

But players/teams aren't going to just let themselves be humiliated. They will blitz the quarterback (with 8 to 9 players with the goal of getting to Brady even if a few seconds late) or tee off on Moss on a catch, etc. It's why most coaches don't run up the score. There is nothing to be gained by doing it. You will not always be as dominant and you likely would not want this done to your team if you have a down year. If the NE subs keep scoring, then that is different. But using your stars, executing fake spikes, throwing deep when you are up by 40 late.....well let's just say karma has a way of evening things out. No one wants to see the star players hurt on the Patriots, but I do think these decisions by Belicheck will put these players a lot more at risk. The other pros being humiliated will eventually make a statement. and that statement is the one thing that could derail this explosive team.

For some reason, I'll bet there are fewer "hater" and "this isn't kindergarten" responses to this quote.

That's because his post, as a whole, is clearly thought out and well written. I may disagree with some parts of his conclusions, but I can't diagree with his thought process. There is a big difference between what Dodds posted and a post saying "BB is a poor sport and Brady is gonna get it."

 

[greenline]

Gibbs never ran up the score??! he SMOKED Denver 42-10 in a SB victory.

35 of which was scored before halftime, and they ran the ball the entire second half. If you go back and watch replays of that game, it's clear that they could have scored 90 points given how much that Denver secondary was outclassed. The final score doesn't tell all or even most of the story in many of the examples you cited. It's how that score was arrived at.

I was at this game. Sat next to the Miller Lite Crew and Dr. J and his wife in San Diego. Elway dropped back and threw an 80 yard TD on the first play of the game. Doug Williams and Timmie Smith lit them up after that. 35 at halftime - 42 for the game. So they scored exactly 7 points in the 2nd half. And somehow, they still somehow managed to win....You can't tell the tone of the game by looking in record books for scores. Maybe the defense had 3 TD's in the 4th quarter. Maybe the 2nd team offense ran the ball in twice. That's different than having your starting QB throw bombs and doing QB sneaks up 40 in the 4th quarter

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...7&week=REG8

What was so objectionable about this?

Was it the third-string QB taking a knee in the last Pats drive of the game?

Was it the third-string QB leading a 3-and-out in the second-to-last Pats drive of the game?

Was it WAS going for a meaningless onside kick after scoring 12:00 into the fourth quarter? Nope I guess not because Joe Gibbs is above reproach.

Was it the Pats' third-to-last possession starting with 8:30 left, in which they pulled their starting QB, first- and second-string RB's, and possibly their top 2 WR's (Moss & Welker weren't targeted from this point; not sure if they were playing)?

I'm guessing the gripe is about the Pats' fourth-to-last possession, which began with 2:00 left in the third quarter, and involved most of the Patriots' starters (Maroney seems to have been pulled midway). In that drive, the Pats went for it on 4th and 1, on the Washington 7. I'm not sure what other options they had. Kicking a FG would have been running up the score, so that's no good. Running for it is no good, since that's what they did and it was disconcerting to decent folk all across the country. What should they have done? Take a knee with 11:00 remaining? Or maybe they should have punted?

Here are the facts.The Patriots up 38-0 to start the 4th quarter, had their starting QB throw 4 out of the next 6 plays from the shotgun. The first to Welker. The next to Stallworth. And finally, the 35 yarder to Moss. They were ALL in the game until the 8:30 mark when Casell came in. That my friend, is the definition of bush league.

They run 90% of their plays from shotgun. So what.

 

[greenline]

Then those are very immature and reprehensible players. Small minded. DD's post was a joke and lame attmept at trying to justify again the complete envy that too many people are heaping on the Pats.

These are the kind of crap comments that need to stop.One of the main reasons that the Patriot fans on these forums are being criticized is because of the mindset that any comment that can possibly be construed as not entirely positive about New England, their players, or their coach, is motivated by envy or jealousy.

Couple that with the inability of virtually any Patriot supporter to be critical of their team (or at least accept others viewpoints as valid) and you solidify the opinion of Patriot fans as intolerable winners and ungracious losers (as in the officials and mistakes cost us in Denver, and the Patriot flu cost us in Indy).

I think it's a fair assumption that some people are jealous, but it shows myopic provinciality to assume that all fans of other teams are full of envy. There remain at least a handful of teams with distinctly more glorious histories than the Patriots. At the very least, it may be instructive to note that the NFL did not start in 2001.

We need a 10 cent word emoticon.

 

[The Jerk]

I think it's a fair assumption that some people are jealous, but it shows myopic provinciality to assume that all fans of other teams are full of envy. There remain at least a handful of teams with distinctly more glorious histories than the Patriots. At the very least, it may be instructive to note that the NFL did not start in 2001.

We need a 10 cent word emoticon.

How about Actually, I'm disappointed. Even without inflation factored in, I think that pairing is worth at least a quarter.

 

[Sweet J]

Here's the thing that I assumed anyone who ever played sports would understand:If my team is being dominated by another team, I am not going to stop playing hard. I want to go down swinging. I want to be a man and not give up. I want to show the world that although my skill level may not approach my opponent's skill level, my heart and desire to excel is equal. The LAST thing I want is for my opponent to show me "mercy" or play half speed or kneel down or whatever. I wouldn't go as far as to say I would be insulted by such action (because my opponent is showing kindness, so you can't really be mad at him), but I don't think I'd be happy about it. I come into a match for the love of the competition. That's what this is about right? Two sets of warriors taking the field. If one side dominates, it can dominate with honor. And if one side loses, it can lose with honor. While I am sure intentions may be in the right place, but "going easy" on an opponent does dishonor to both sides, really.

Anyone else picturing Luke getting his butt whipped by Dragline?While fighting the good fight can sometimes be laudable, there are instances where continuing to fight against all odds reveals a serious mental/emotional defect.

It's funny, my thought process is all over the place with this one. Some random thoughts:From my amature boxing days, every once in a while I would find myself in a fight where one of us was clearly, clearly overmatched. Amature boxing is funny, because the way it work, where some boxing club in some podunk town in will host a fight night, and local clubs from across the state will drive up with their guys and put their names on a list to fight. You could theoretically have a 25 year old guy with 80 fights against a 19 year old kid with 5 fights. The coaches are supposed to protect their kids, but some coaches just aren't very good. I've been on both ends. A couple memories come to my mind.I remember once fighting some kid who I was obviously better than, but who refused to go down. There is one clear memory that is burned into my head where I hit him with a couple of combinations, then took a step back, and there was about a half second where he just kind of stood there with his hands up. I looked at the ref with a "what should I do?" look and he motioned for me to keep going, which I did. The ref called the fight soon after that. Every once in a while I wonder what was going through the ref's mind, the other fighter's mind, and the other corner's mind.I also remember fighting, sometime in the mid 90s, a world class guy obviously over my skill level (David Reid, for those that know boxing). I didn't know who he was at the time, and I only had maybe 10 fights behind me, all against local kids in local fights near me. In the first round he absolutely pummelled me. It fealt like was hitting me with 5 different hands from 10 different directions. At some point during the round, I stopped trying to hit him and just tried to survive. After the first round, in the corner, my coach told me he was going to stop the fight. I begged him not to. I don't know why, but it was really, really important that I make it through. He told me that if I stopped punching, if I stopped fighting back, he'd stop the fight. I eventually made it all three rounds, and I guess it would have been ok with me if my coach stopped it against my wishes, but I needed it to be clear to him that it would have been against my wishes. If that makes any sense. Now, I don't know if my opponent went easy on my in the second or third round, but I hope he didn't. It is one of the fights that I am most proud of, taking somebody's best and not giving up. If I knew he took it easy on me, or had mercy on me, that fight wouldn't have been as special to me.This post doesn't really have anything to do with this thread, but Christo's post brought these memories back. God, it sucks getting old, doesn't it?