Bengals DL shift (1 Viewer)

[John Norton]

In case anyone missed it, at the Bengals recent OTA Justin Smith moved to LDE and Robert Geathers took over the starting job at RDE. The purpose of this according to Bresnahan is to get more favorable matchups for Smith who will now be facing the opponents right tackle. This should be very good news for Smith's sack numbers. You might also want to bump Geathers up on your sleeper list. This kid looked very good in limited action last year. He's a good pass rusher and is strong against the run. I could easily see him posting 45 solo tackles and 7 sacks. They also swapped positions between Bryan Robinson an John Thornton at tackle. The thought here is that Thornton should now see fewer double teams and can be more effective. He might hit 40 tackles and 5 sacks. Maybe good enough for depth in big leagues but certainly important to those of us who play in leagues that breakdown DT and DE into separate positions.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

In case anyone missed it, at the Bengals recent OTA Justin Smith moved to LDE and Robert Geathers took over the starting job at RDE. The purpose of this according to Bresnahan is to get more favorable matchups for Smith who will now be facing the opponents right tackle. This should be very good news for Smith's sack numbers.

this makes no sense to me. sure, facing the RT is better than facing the LT, but he'll also have to deal with a TE a lot more frequently.Apart from Strahan, nearly every top pass rusher in the league plays RDE.

 

[reg]

So is it still planned on Pollack playing SLB or will he be competing with Geathers?

 

[John Norton]

In case anyone missed it, at the Bengals recent OTA Justin Smith moved to LDE and Robert Geathers took over the starting job at RDE. The purpose of this according to Bresnahan is to get more favorable matchups for Smith who will now be facing the opponents right tackle. This should be very good news for Smith's sack numbers.

this makes no sense to me. sure, facing the RT is better than facing the LT, but he'll also have to deal with a TE a lot more frequently.Apart from Strahan, nearly every top pass rusher in the league plays RDE.

It's all about the scheme. They will now have a pass rush overload with Pollack and Smith rushing from the same side. That's the team's two best pass rushers going after a right tackle and a TE. It forces most offenses to adjust their blocking schemes. They will use Pollack much like Lewis's defenses have used Peter Boulware and LaVar Arrington in the past. Both those guys put up double digit sacks under Lewis.

 

[Bloom]

So is it still planned on Pollack playing SLB or will he be competing with Geathers?

pollack at LB. read recently that theyre happy with his development at the new position - lewis says hes way ahead of where they thought he would be, for what its worth.

 

[Bob Magaw]

interesting thread...i take it that boulware was deployed as a 3-4 OLB, & arrington was as a 4-3 SLB under respective lewis tenures?so if the bengals are expected to be in 4-3, i guess the question that points back to the justin smith question upthread about RDE/LDE...how did the LDE (edit) do in front of arrington when under lewis in WAS?i'm not sure, & haven't looked ity up yet.regardless, smith may be more talented than whover skins were sporting at LDE (edit) during that time slice... was dexter manley the last great DE they had at either DE position?

 

[jetmonkey]

interesting thread...

i take it that boulware was deployed as a 3-4 OLB, & arrington was as a 4-3 SLB under respective lewis tenures?

so if the bengals are expected to be in 4-3, i guess the question that points back to the justin smith question upthread about RDE/LDE...

how did the DE do in front of arrington when under lewis in WAS?

i'm not sure, & haven't looked ity up yet.

regardless, smith may be more talented than whover skins were sporting at RDE during that time slice... was dexter manley the last great DE they had at either DE position?

Manley and Mann; but Marco Coleman had two pretty good years in DC recently.

 

[John Norton]

Honestly I can't even remember who was playing DE in Washington in '02 when Arrington had 11 sacks. Coleman had 12 in '00. I know they have been hurting at the position for a long while. There was certainly no Justin Smith for Arrington to work with. Does anyone remember what year it was that Baltimore first went to the 3-4? Boulware put up 15 sacks in '01. I'm sure they were in a 4-3 in '99 when he put up 10. At that time Sharper was at WLB with Lewis in the middle and Boulware on the strong side.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

In case anyone missed it, at the Bengals recent OTA Justin Smith moved to LDE and Robert Geathers took over the starting job at RDE. The purpose of this according to Bresnahan is to get more favorable matchups for Smith who will now be facing the opponents right tackle. This should be very good news for Smith's sack numbers.

this makes no sense to me. sure, facing the RT is better than facing the LT, but he'll also have to deal with a TE a lot more frequently.Apart from Strahan, nearly every top pass rusher in the league plays RDE.

It's all about the scheme. They will now have a pass rush overload with Pollack and Smith rushing from the same side. That's the team's two best pass rushers going after a right tackle and a TE. It forces most offenses to adjust their blocking schemes. They will use Pollack much like Lewis's defenses have used Peter Boulware and LaVar Arrington in the past. Both those guys put up double digit sacks under Lewis.

I'm not sure overloading one side is better than putting 2 great pass rushers on opposite sides of the line. This way, offenses will almost be forced to slide their protection over to the right side of the line, effectively double teaming Smith on most plays and leaving Geathers with a more favorable matchup at RDE. Also, in a 4-3, the SLB can't simply rush the passer with reckless abandon like an OLB in a 3-4 can. He'll have plenty of other responsibilities to worry about in containing the run and occasionally dropping into coverage.

 

[John Norton]

In case anyone missed it, at the Bengals recent OTA Justin Smith moved to LDE and Robert Geathers took over the starting job at RDE. The purpose of this according to Bresnahan is to get more favorable matchups for Smith who will now be facing the opponents right tackle. This should be very good news for Smith's sack numbers.

this makes no sense to me. sure, facing the RT is better than facing the LT, but he'll also have to deal with a TE a lot more frequently.Apart from Strahan, nearly every top pass rusher in the league plays RDE.

It's all about the scheme. They will now have a pass rush overload with Pollack and Smith rushing from the same side. That's the team's two best pass rushers going after a right tackle and a TE. It forces most offenses to adjust their blocking schemes. They will use Pollack much like Lewis's defenses have used Peter Boulware and LaVar Arrington in the past. Both those guys put up double digit sacks under Lewis.

I'm not sure overloading one side is better than putting 2 great pass rushers on opposite sides of the line. This way, offenses will almost be forced to slide their protection over to the right side of the line, effectively double teaming Smith on most plays and leaving Geathers with a more favorable matchup at RDE. Also, in a 4-3, the SLB can't simply rush the passer with reckless abandon like an OLB in a 3-4 can. He'll have plenty of other responsibilities to worry about in containing the run and occasionally dropping into coverage.

This isn't a typical 4-3 scheme. Sure he will have outside run contain but Pollack will rush on the vast majority of pass plays. The Bengals believe Geathers can be a strong contributor to the pass rush, especially considering he will see a great deal of single blocking. That's one reason I really like the kid.

Its not exactly easy to "slide coverage" in a situation like that. If they double Smith with the TE and OT that leaves Pollack 1 on 1 with a running back. If they chip Pollack with the TE and give him help with the back it leaves Smith 1 on 1 with the tackle. It's just like every other defensive scheme in that if you don't have the horses you can't pull the cart. They believe they have the horses to play it this way..

 

[pretender]

Small hijack So a question as an IDP relative newbie who owns both Justin Smith and Robert Geathers. Do you keep both or trade one. We have contracts and Smith has 2 years and Geathers well if I keep him I can assign any length I want. 2 pt per tackle, 1 pt per assist, 1 pt per .05 sack. Also have C Griffin and K Williams, James Hall. Seems to me perhaps the best thing to do is keep both assign Geathers a 4 year contract and see what the season brings, and if a deal to trade comes up.....Again sorry for the hijack but you IDP guys know your stuff.

 

[John Norton]

Small hijack So a question as an IDP relative newbie who owns both Justin Smith and Robert Geathers. Do you keep both or trade one. We have contracts and Smith has 2 years and Geathers well if I keep him I can assign any length I want. 2 pt per tackle, 1 pt per assist, 1 pt per .05 sack. Also have C Griffin and K Williams, James Hall. Seems to me perhaps the best thing to do is keep both assign Geathers a 4 year contract and see what the season brings, and if a deal to trade comes up.....

Again sorry for the hijack but you IDP guys know your stuff.

You probably don't want 2 DE's on the same team. Smith would have more trade value so I would look to move him. Geathers is unproven but could be a very pleasant surprise. I doubt he would garner much in a trade until he does something.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Small hijack So a question as an IDP relative newbie who owns both Justin Smith and Robert Geathers. Do you keep both or trade one. We have contracts and Smith has 2 years and Geathers well if I keep him I can assign any length I want. 2 pt per tackle, 1 pt per assist, 1 pt per .05 sack. Also have C Griffin and K Williams, James Hall. Seems to me perhaps the best thing to do is keep both assign Geathers a 4 year contract and see what the season brings, and if a deal to trade comes up.....

Again sorry for the hijack but you IDP guys know your stuff.

I honestly think Geathers will never be a solid start. As long as both Justin Smith and David Pollack are on the same team, I highly doubt you'll see Geathers on the field during passing situations. This alone will severely hurt his value since pass-rushing DE's make a large chunk of their living in nickle and dime situations.Keep in mind, Geathers was only a 4th-round pick for the Bengals last year. He only has adequate speed (4.9/40) and does not have much growth potential. There was obviously a reason why 11 other DE's were drafted before Geathers last year.

Keep Smith. You'll probably laugh, but I would recommed tossing James Hall's name in some offers. IMO, he's a prime "sell high" candidate and could fetch a nice baller or two in return.

 

[pretender]

Thanks for the advice guys! Sell James Hall - hmmm might consider that but why - his age, others on the team with better upside potential?

 

[Donnybrook]

Small hijack So a question as an IDP relative newbie who owns both Justin Smith and Robert Geathers. Do you keep both or trade one. We have contracts and Smith has 2 years and Geathers well if I keep him I can assign any length I want. 2 pt per tackle, 1 pt per assist, 1 pt per .05 sack. Also have C Griffin and K Williams, James Hall. Seems to me perhaps the best thing to do is keep both assign Geathers a 4 year contract and see what the season brings, and if a deal to trade comes up.....

Again sorry for the hijack but you IDP guys know your stuff.

I honestly think Geathers will never be a solid start. As long as both Justin Smith and David Pollack are on the same team, I highly doubt you'll see Geathers on the field during passing situations. This alone will severely hurt his value since pass-rushing DE's make a large chunk of their living in nickle and dime situations.Keep in mind, Geathers was only a 4th-round pick for the Bengals last year. He only has adequate speed (4.9/40) and does not have much growth potential. There was obviously a reason why 11 other DE's were drafted before Geathers last year.

Keep Smith. You'll probably laugh, but I would recommed tossing James Hall's name in some offers. IMO, he's a prime "sell high" candidate and could fetch a nice baller or two in return.

I disagree with you on Geathers. I think he may have been overlooked in the draft because he came out as a junior. Obviously, his combine 4.8 40 time did not help. But he later ran a 4.6 at his Georgia Pro Day. Right now Geathers is listed 6’3” 280 and Justin Smith is listed at 6’ 4” 270. From what I have read, the Bengal’s coaching staff believe that he is capable of being an every down DE. I am hoping that he is a kind of a “natural” since his father, Robert Sr., and his Uncle, Jumpy, both played DE in the NFL.

 

[redman]

interesting thread...

i take it that boulware was deployed as a 3-4 OLB, & arrington was as a 4-3 SLB under respective lewis tenures?

so if the bengals are expected to be in 4-3, i guess the question that points back to the justin smith question upthread about RDE/LDE...

how did the DE do in front of arrington when under lewis in WAS?

i'm not sure, & haven't looked ity up yet.

regardless, smith may be more talented than whover skins were sporting at RDE during that time slice... was dexter manley the last great DE they had at either DE position?

Manley and Mann; but Marco Coleman had two pretty good years in DC recently.

In 2002, the LDE was Renaldo Wynn who posted 30 tackles, 11 assists, and 2.5 sacks. In fairness to Wynn, he's a run-stopping DE who has never posted more than 5 sacks in a year. Smith is defintely a better pass rusher than Wynn. Also, that's a defense that Lewis "rented" for a year anyway. You're better served looking at the Ravens defenses under him as Lewis had a much bigger hand in constructing them.

Regarding Geathers, I drafted him last year and stashed him away on my taxi squad. He's doing what I thought/hoped he'd do based upon his pre-draft write-up last year. He's a good young DE prospect now.

Remember, Marvin Lewis doesn't draft clowns for his defense. Nobody knew who Madieu Williams was and now he's a IDP stud at safety.